The Bridge

2:00 PM

@Sterno I was doing fairly well with Mei but I had no team support and they started to learn to play around me.

@Waterseas A dead mercy is a huge knock to the team, though. Knocking out the mercy can quickly lead to the downfall of the entire team.

user15026

@Ronan I have a decent enough setup for PC gaming I just don't do it, for some reason I haven't figured out.

Waterseas

@Yuuki Is that because the DPS's are turning to try and kill you anyways?

Yuuki

If Winston jumps in and takes out a Mercy, he doesn't magically disappear from the game.

two bugs

@Waterseas wat

I'm not being hostile

Yuuki

2:00 PM

He can jump around and kill other people.

Waterseas

Constant biting sarcasm is generally regarded as hostile in most circles

Wipqozn

I'll likely get Yooka Laylee on eithe rPS4 or WiiU, and eventually but if ro PC if there's good mod support.

two bugs

I'm not even being sarcastic

I think you have me confused with someone

Ronan

@AshleyNunn I know, I can play games, I think I get distracted because the thing in front of me is where the internet and youtube lives.

Frank

@Waterseas ...Wha?

Sterno

2:01 PM

@StrixVaria Yeah, and really if you run into even 2 of them instead of just 1, it's trouble

Unionhawk

I'm being sarcastic but that's only because I main support and am being told that me dying is not a huge impact, which is objectively incorrect

Yuuki

@Waterseas Doesn't matter what they do, if I can take out the Mercy, they can't survive DPS from my team.

Sterno

I usually get Mei down to about 70 health before she kills me if I 1v1 her as soldier

Waterseas

@Twbugs Ahh, looking back, I mistook you for Union

Kevin van der Velden

@Sterno then you should probably be standing 50 meters farther back =p

StrixVaria

2:02 PM

They nerfed the amount of healing Mei gets from her ice block since beta.

Unionhawk

Heals going down is objectively detrimental to the entire team, and given a coordinated team, can trigger a more successful push

Sterno

@KevinvanderVelden Pfft, if I'm that far away, I don't even call it 1v1. That's like saying Widowmaker 1v1's everyone

StrixVaria

It used to full heal her (barely), and now I think it's about 150 health if you stay in it the whole time.

Kevin van der Velden

@Waterseas Oh yeah his name isn't UniHawk but @Unionhawk

Wipqozn

@StrixVaria yeah they did, which is good. IT used to bring her to a full health usually. It was way too damn strong. She basically had 500 HP.

Yuuki

2:02 PM

Jump in, kill Mercy, drop barrier and dance around it for a bit, jump out. Oh look, support's dead and I'm free to keep doing what I do.

Unionhawk

@StrixVaria Which is still pretty good

Wipqozn

@StrixVaria yeah, 150 sounds about right.

Sterno

I love dropping Mei's ice block during an enemy ult

GnomeSlice

I nees to try lucio

Waterseas

@yuuki My point is, if the Winston is jumping past to kill the mercy, the DPS on your team should be taking out the Winston's team's DPS, before killing the Winston; but often the DPS will turn and focus the Winston, instead of killing the DPS first

Wipqozn

2:03 PM

@Sterno same]

GnomeSlice

playing higher level people was a lot more challenging

Yuuki

@Waterseas Yes, but Winston's team has a support keeping them alive against your team's DPS while your team is slowly being whittled down without heals.

GnomeSlice

i jumped in quickplay as a noob and was just facerolling everyone as soldier

like, really facerolling

Unionhawk

@Waterseas See, not taking out the more immediate danger is why Winston can take out Mercy with ease :)

GnomeSlice

my kd was like 12 per game

Wipqozn

2:04 PM

@Yuuki and a good winston will drop his barrier before jumping anyways

Sterno

I'm curious how the levels work past 100. Saw a guy who looked like he was level 6 but had a bronze star under his name. Another player said that meant he was level 100

Wipqozn

and the barrier is really the only taking winston offers, so if he drops that doesn't really matter if he's not at the team.

StrixVaria

@Sterno That's 106.

Kevin van der Velden

@Unionhawk yup, you've lost a DPS character they've lost a healer. Big deal you'd think, then 10 second later their team is wiped and you've lost another character

Waterseas

@Yuuki And Mercy's team has a tank that's soaking the damage, or in the case of Roadhog, picking off individual DPS

Sterno

2:05 PM

@StrixVaria It just seems weird they'd drop digits. I wonder what happens as you keep going up in the hundreds

GnomeSlice

Literally just standing on the point wrecking everyone

StrixVaria

After 100, you go back to 1 but with a different border (new stars or a different color or something).

Waterseas

@Unionhawk I'm not sure I understand your statement

Sterno

Also, this is the dumbest headline I've seen yet: "'Overwatch' rumors: Player reaches level 100 one week after launch; Game too easy?"

"Game too easy"

StrixVaria

@Sterno More stars, eventually a new color (silver instead of bronze, then gold, etc.)

Sterno

2:05 PM

wtf

Wipqozn

@Sterno Dumb ckickbait headlines? Why I never!

StrixVaria

They have stuff up to level ~2000 I heard.

Waterseas

That logic is amazing @Sterno

Yuuki

Soaking how? The only traditional tank in the game is Reinhardt.

Sterno

With 5 stars and bronze/silver/gold combos you'd get 1500 levels

Waterseas

2:06 PM

The only pure tank @Yuuki

Yuuki

Not to mention, if Winston's team starts dying first, their Mercy can rez.

Whereas yours can't because she's dead.

user15026

@Ronan Yeah I get that, that's me too

Unionhawk

I just realized that at least there is no way you blame mercy for losing given how much you undervalue having her alive

So at least there is that

Ronan

@AshleyNunn If you work out how to not be broken let me know :P

Waterseas

Except certain DPS can still easily take out a Mercy without jumping to their backlines, and hopefully your DPS are smart enough to do so; assuming their support is Mercy

user15026

2:08 PM

@Ronan if I figure it out I will share but i suspect I am doomed to be broken forever

Waterseas

@Unionhawk Yet more sarcasm?

Unionhawk

It's situational. There is no set "dps focus mercy etc" formula

It's not that simple

Waterseas

I'm aware

Wipqozn

Yeah, and the team comp and communication plays a huge role too. also the map, and if offense vs defense.

Yuuki

And if you're really concerned about Winston not soaking damage for his team by jumping in the backline, he can drop his barrier on his team before jumping (what @Wipqozn said).

Since he's not going to need it if your team isn't going to focus him when he jumps in.

Wipqozn

2:10 PM

@Yuuki I'd argue that being able to drop the barrier then hop away was something intended from the start with winston

Kevin van der Velden

It's one of the reasons I love him on push-the-cart offense

Yuuki

@Wipqozn Depending on whether I get focused or not, I also drop it when I land in the backline.

Unionhawk

@Waterseas What if they have a shield what if their attacking characters are getting hit with a pharah what if mercy is in the air what if it's actually zenyatta what if it's a zarya combo etc

Wipqozn

If mercy is hiding out behind a reinhart it's a lot harder to pick her off from afar, which is where having winston or a flanker can be a huge help.

Kevin van der Velden

I drop the shield on the cart and go reck the enemy

Yuuki

2:10 PM

Since the barrier also blocks enemy damage going out.

Unionhawk

mostly what if they have a shield

Kevin van der Velden

Then jump back for some healing and more shields

Yuuki

If I drop the barrier in the middle of them, they can't shoot out.

Wipqozn

if it's out in an openish area, and the only enemy tnk is roadhog, then i's a lot easier to pick her off from afar.

Kevin van der Velden

Winston is like half tank half flanker, except he flanks by going in the air, over them and dropping behind them

Waterseas

2:11 PM

@Unionhawk It's funny how you bring up 'it's situational' now, yet it's not relevant to the argument against Winston assassinating Mercy

Wipqozn

There's a king of the hill map, whose name I can't recall, which is really difficult to mercy on. You're right out in the open, and the point itself is really open, so it's really easy to pick merc off there if your team doesn't protect her properply (aka picking off the threats to her first, having shields up)

Waterseas

@Wipqozn Is it Well or Ruins?

Kevin van der Velden

Illios? The one map with the ruins

Unionhawk

Mercy has resurrect. Always assume that as long as she is alive, and did not just do it, she has it up.

There is no debate who the priority target is.

Wipqozn

@Waterseas It's the first map on some king of the hill one. I'm not sure what the name is.

IT's not ruins. Ruins is good for mercy.

two bugs

2:13 PM

There's no "first map" anymore

They're randomly ordered but have names

Wipqozn

You can find plent of places to hide

@twobugs oh really? Didn't realize.

Sterno

@Unionhawk Sure you do. "Why were you playing Mercy? We didn't need heals. You should have gone Hanzo."

Wipqozn

WELL THEN

Waterseas

@Unionhawk Never said there wasn't, however, there could be a widowmaker on the team, there could be a torb turret up, there could be a second support in Lucio or a pharah who will then knock away the Winston, etc. Just as situational

Wipqozn

I'm not even sure how this conversation started, but the moral of the story is that Winston is good at picking off Mercy, and a support (Especially mercy) is really helpful for keeping the team alive. A support dying can quickly lead to the death of the team.

Sterno

2:15 PM

@Wipqozn Is it one of the Nepal (wintery) ones, where the point is basically a Gazebo with no walls except a bit in the corners?

Wipqozn

@Sterno yeah one of those

Sterno

Hate that map

Unionhawk

Lucio is designed for KOTH

Wipqozn

yeah, lucio is a lot better ont he map than mercy.

Sterno

When I play Lucio I hold down LMB and spam like I'm Hanzo

two bugs

2:15 PM

Zenyatta is quite good on KOTH I find

Yuuki

@Wipqozn Sanctum? It's the one where the point is lower than the rest of the map.

Wipqozn

Zenyatta might be a good choice, actually since he can just stay back at a safe distance

two bugs

The targeted healing of Harmony is big

Wipqozn

@Yuuki No, the point is elevated slightly.

Yuuki

Village is the one where the point is inside a house with a second level above it.

Unionhawk

2:16 PM

I want to play zenyatta on a team with like, a Reinhardt and a builder

Wipqozn

There's a stairwall leading up to it, on al four sides.

@Yuuki Not that one

wait maybe that one

Yuuki

So the gazebo one.

Wipqozn

no not that one

yeah the gazebo one

It's the gazebo map.

Yuuki

Yeah, the high walls on the point make it annoying to Mercy with.

Grace Note

Can you attack the gazebo

Ronan

2:18 PM

@GraceNote As long as you believe.

Grace Note

One of my game dev projects, the final boss was a gazebo.

Unionhawk

There are destructible environments, but not that large scale destructible environments

..

two bugs

I'm getting more into Symmetra. I saw a great Symmetra POTG last night. Inspired me!

Unionhawk

waht

Yuuki

@Unionhawk It's a D&D thing.

Wipqozn

2:18 PM

The moral of the story is BACK TO WROK

Waterseas

@twobugs What was it?

Unionhawk

I... see

Waterseas

I need to play Symmetra less honestly

Grace Note

The basis of the game was, you play a Steampunk tank

Yuuki

@Unionhawk web.archive.org/web/20080804140516/http://www.dreadgazebo.com/…

fredley

2:19 PM

I would play a @GraceNote game

Yuuki

> ED: You see a well groomed garden. In the middle, on a small hill, you see a gazebo.
ERIC: A gazebo? What color is it?
ED: [pause] It's white, Eric.
ERIC: How far away is it?
ED: About 50 yards.
ERIC: How big is it?
ED: [pause] It's about 30 ft across, 15 ft high, with a pointed top.
ERIC: I use my sword to detect good on it.
ED: It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo.
ERIC: [pause] I call out to it.
ED: It won't answer. It's a gazebo.
ERIC: [pause] I sheathe my sword and draw my bow and arrows. Does it respond in any way?

8

Grace Note

You start off in a peaceful meadow hub with a gazebo in the middle. There's 3 doors, they lead to big dungeon cave things.

two bugs

@Waterseas Symmetra dropped on some people from behind and murderized 2ish people while her turrets on the point killed 2 more

Waterseas

@Twobugs Sounds about right XD

two bugs

Her main fire is REALLY strong once it ramps up. You just need to play her like a more squishy Mei.

StrixVaria

2:20 PM

@Yuuki I had a character who cast detect poison on everything I remembered to. Then there was actually a time it would have come in handy, and I forgot. That character is dead now.

two bugs

You have to be very picky about how you engage

Waterseas

Basically

And can't fight some characters

GnomeSlice

I search for traps

two bugs

And if the enemy team has a Winston you just flip the table

Yuuki

@twobugs Or you can facetank Reinhardts like a chump. I can't remember if her tether ignores the barrier or not.

badp

2:20 PM

@StrixVaria [Mithridates intensifies]

GnomeSlice

"you find no traps"

"but I rolled a 20, i should find ALL the traps"

Grace Note

The idea was based off Hunt the Wumpus (though my teammates refused to believe me) - there's three BIG THINGS in each of these giant caves which are split off into a bunch of rooms. You need to navigate the caves avoiding certain particular obstacles in order to find the BIG THING, but you had to engage it in a particular way or everything ends badly for you.

two bugs

@Yuuki Tether does not ignore the barrier, her orb goes through it

Waterseas

Typically if the enemy goes Winston, you just have to spread out your turrets more and put them more in the open

Unionhawk

@Yuuki It doesn't, but it does ramp up on it

Ronan

2:21 PM

@GnomeSlice You activated the no traps. Take 2d6 void damage.

two bugs

That's the other thing she is great about - spamming the orb towards an Reinhardt

Grace Note

So the idea was navigating around each of the rooms, pay attention to clues, and figure out the three different gimmicks of the bosses to take them all down.

two bugs

Spamming orbs on a choke is a Great Thing.

Waterseas

Oasis is amazing for spamming orbs

Defense, right side of choke, spam orbs through the double doorway, with your turrets covering the room

Grace Note

When you beat them all down, you return to the central hub, and suddenly all the flowers and grass on the meadow rot as suddenly a gigantic castle death machine erupts from the ground and roars at you. Atop the machine is the entire meadow, complete with the gazebo intact.

Sterno

2:23 PM

Ilios is my favorite KOTH

Unionhawk

Yes

two bugs

Ilios is very nice, but I love Lijiang

@Unionhawk gets really mad whenever we play Lijiang

Sterno

Lijiang is fun for launching people off ledges

Unionhawk

I think I need to stop playing Lucio in general for a while

Grace Note

The gazebo was a teammate's idea.

two bugs

2:24 PM

Lijiang for me is a really fun map for Zarya

Always go for the toblerone

Unionhawk

Because then if nothing else at least I don't feel like it's My Fault(tm)

Waterseas

@Twobugs Yesssss, you make me happy for calling him that too

two bugs

I've started to like Lucio less. At least I don't like pug Lucios

badp

can you defeat the gazebo immediately?

two bugs

They rarely seem to switch well or amp

Sterno

2:25 PM

If I'm in a pug and someone else goes support, even if they suck, they're already my favorite person

badp

Chrono Trigger NG+ style

two bugs

And if you amp healing when your team is at like 5hp you're a real jerk

@Sterno See, I was already playing Mercy and then he picked Lucio

Unionhawk

@Sterno See, it depends for me because I always feel that I can do it better

Grace Note

Well, because we never properly finished the game, there was a button you could press to just start the battle.

Unionhawk

Or at least sometimes

two bugs

2:26 PM

Preceded to do very little other than give me less to heal

Sterno

@twobugs Assuming the rest of the team comp supports it, Mercy + Lucio wreck house

two bugs

If we could have coordinated? It's a brutal combo

But if he's just going to sit on health, never amp, and generally suck? Nah.

Unionhawk

Singleq support is pretty cancer

Sterno

If you've got 4 flankers, then yeah, it sucks

Waterseas

3 dps, tank, mercy, lucio is awesome

two bugs

2:27 PM

We didn't have 4 flankers but honestly, all he really did was sit on the point. Was never mobile, never really helpful

Sterno

@Waterseas Zarya + another tank or mei + 2 dps + mercy + lucio = gg

two bugs

If memory serves we had a Genji who was raging at all of us

"TEAM WHERE ARE YOU GUYS?" Well, we're pushing to the point and you're just kind of trying to play a stealth game or whatever

Unionhawk

@twobugs I mean, we had that on the one Nepal game that went to 2 double overtimes

And I think might have given me a stroke or something

Because it was a cycle of me running in super fast then everyone is dead and now I'm dead

But when I was running you were all alive so it seemed like a good plan

Might have been a different game because Genjis like to complain about stuff

Take that @Wipqozn guy for example

Yuuki

@twobugs A flanker asking where his team is just makes me laugh.

two bugs

@Yuuki RIGHT???

Yuuki

2:31 PM

It's like, "your job is to not be near your team, why are you asking where we are?"

Sterno

My favorite map is when I was sitting on the payload solo as Mercy because everyone else was off playing a flanker and no one wanted to actually move it forward

two bugs

Someone downvoted my thorough D.Va answer with no explanation :|

Sterno

90 seconds later I was like, "Well, I guess I'll just go park on that so it moves. Come to me if you want heals"

@twobugs Their explanation, whatever it would have been, would have just made you rage.

two bugs

I'm doing better about not raging!

If there's a factual reason my answer sucks though, it would be nice to know

Yuuki

I think hybrid maps really screw with people because they capture the point and then forget to push the payload.

Sterno

2:32 PM

Downvote explanations are 95% rage-inducing

Unionhawk

He transferred some of his salt to me I think

Yuuki

I wonder if there's going to be a hybrid map that goes the other way? Payload and then capture point?

Wipqozn

@Sterno I finished a payload game the other day be solo pushing it as mercy

two bugs

I transferred all of my salt to @Unionhawk

@Sterno Hm, this is true

Wipqozn

All I did was hide behind the cart. The enemy team never tried to get closer.

two bugs

2:33 PM

I rarely downvote and when I do I try to leave helpful concise comments

But that's not always easy

Wipqozn

My biggest regret is I didn't get POTG for it

Unionhawk

80% of my downvotes are on deleted stuff so like the explanation is "this is NAA" for the most part

Wipqozn

@Unionhawk yeah that guy's a jerk

two bugs

I was playing a funny game where a Junkrat ult'd and killed 4 people. Shockingly POTG went to a Roadhog for the exact same thing

People were raging in match chat :P

Wipqozn

He'd make a great mod though! Best vote for him.

Sterno

2:35 PM

@Wipqozn POTG for hiding behind the cart by yourself would be awesome

I have trouble knowing when to Mercy-rez

Unionhawk

This is why I have "group up" bound

@Sterno Honestly, I like taking single revives on tanks a lot

If I see a double I take it

Sterno

Unless I know more people are just about to die, or the dude who died sucks or is in a spot he'll just die again 2 seconds later, I usually just hit it when I see a death

Wipqozn

@Unionhawk yeah, knowing who to revive is important.

Waterseas

Almost always take the double, depending on the situation

Unionhawk

If you can get it yeah

Wipqozn

2:36 PM

Also how well combat is going

Unionhawk

Like, if there is justice in progress, maybe wait a second

Wipqozn

If your team is destroying the enemy right now, and they have one guy left, just save your rez if it's only for 1 or 2 people

Unionhawk

Assuming you aren't in the line of justice

Wipqozn

by the time the enemy gets back your ally will be too probably

Waterseas

Also if the entire enemy team is still up and fairly high health, and you're the only one alive, probably not worth doing a rez

Wipqozn

2:37 PM

skill the player matters too, as well as the class

Waterseas

*For a double

Wipqozn

Don't waste it on a torb.

Unless the torb says "i have an ult"

Unionhawk

Yeah that dude's turret is already down if he's dead, probably

Sterno

I'm also frustrated by how often you'll clear out the enemy team after a hard-fought battle and rather than get 3 people on the payload/point to move it faster, everyone but one person just runs off to do whatever

Unionhawk

Yeah

Yuuki

2:38 PM

@Unionhawk Avoid doing so for D.Va while in pitched combat.

Unionhawk

Yes

Yuuki

While she does get mech ult back, she's still vulnerable.

Unionhawk

I was more thinking a roadhog or reinhardt

Reinhardt especially

But roadhog because that guy is an ult battery

For both sides, unfortunately though

Yuuki

@Unionhawk For both teams!

They really need to do something about that though. There's no reason to pick him in high-tier play because of that.

The problem is that giving him innate shields or armor would be ridiculous given how much of a health pool he has and his recovery ability.

Kevin van der Velden

I like how in windows shells, everything that is done all the time has long names while the command for controlling a service is 2 letters...

And by like I mean "hate with a passion"

Sterno

2:41 PM

@Yuuki Good thing we'll never be high tier players!

Private Pansy

R'amen

Unionhawk

Dangit now I'm hungry and it isn't lunch yet

Private Pansy

@Unionhawk You need reddit.com/r/shittyfoodporn

Yuuki

@Unionhawk Yeah, noodles are pretty good.

fredley

pls

Ronan

2:49 PM

@fredley Seems legit.

Unionhawk

Don't know where I want to get lunch

inb4 qdoba

fredley

@Unionhawk qdoba

Unionhawk

HamStare @fredley

Ronan

What even is a qdoba?

ardaozkal

@Ronan best mexican chain

Unionhawk

2:50 PM

It's like chipotle with slightly less good food but with queso

So it balances out

Waterseas

Culver's

Unionhawk

There is one of those around but it's slightly far away...

Wipqozn

@Unionhawk honestly even if the turret is up you might not need torb aliv. If the turret gets destroyed it was probably going to do down whether he was there or not.

Unionhawk

Hmmm

@Wipqozn Probably

Waterseas

Culver's is amazingggggg

Unionhawk

2:51 PM

This is true

Yuuki

How to stop playing with bad pubs.

djsmiley2k

its hot, yey

Wipqozn

and unless the torb is crap he shouldn't have an scrap on hi to make armor anyways. For the most part I always try to have as much armor down aspossible.

djsmiley2k

@Yuuki most pubs are bad tho

because games don't reward team play

You can thank cod for that.

Unionhawk

@Wipqozn It's retained on death anyway

Waterseas

2:53 PM

Overwatch is even more reliant on team play than TF2 was I think

djsmiley2k

Now, something like rainbow six...

even gr:aw was quite good, tho you could run solo on that

Wipqozn

@Unionhawk It is. I meant that armor does add a lot of value, so a torb being alive to toss down armor is really helpful. Buuuut they shouldn't be sitting on a boatload of scrap anyways.

I always just try to litter the point with armor, and sometimes throw it at people.

Unionhawk

Yeah I like to throw it all around the point

Wipqozn

Bastion I'll normally try to toss it at him. Same with mercy.

Yuuki

@Waterseas Well, that's more of a function of smaller team size than anything.

Unionhawk

2:55 PM

And whoever picks it up gets it

Yuuki

Average TF2 game is 12 per team, IIRC?