The Bridge

Kevin van der Velden

9:00 PM

@AshleyNunn that's what funnels are for, right?

Jason Berkan

@Batophobia Hah! That's because they don't listen to reason and never change their viewpoint.

user15026

@KevinvanderVelden Oh my god I read that as funerals and was HORRIFIED

Wipqozn

@JasonBerkan Are your kids secretly everyone on The Bridge?

Jason Berkan

@AshleyNunn In order: Talking, threatening punishment, actual punishment, taking supper away and giving up.

Kevin van der Velden

@AshleyNunn I don't know why I'm laughing so hard but there are tears in my eyes now

user15026

9:01 PM

@JasonBerkan I liked food too much to not eat.

user15026

You don't get this size arguing about different chicken. :P

Ktash

@Wipqozn The k is silent

StrixVaria

I am not looking forward to my daughter getting old enough to start getting fussy about eating.

She's still mostly fine with anything (except peas).

Kevin van der Velden

Well peas are horrible

user15026

@StrixVaria Friends of mine just gave their kid anything they had going, and so far it has worked, but he's under a year yet.

StrixVaria

9:03 PM

@KevinvanderVelden Yeah I don't blame her on that one.

user15026

But watching that kid eat sushi was my FAVOURITE THING EVER

Jason Berkan

@StrixVaria All kids are different. My pickiest kid is actually not picky - supper is just a power struggle for him.

StrixVaria

@AshleyNunn Yeah we're just getting to the point where she's eating table foods (as long as they're mushy enough that you can eat them without teeth).

user15026

@KevinvanderVelden They're only good fresh out of a garden, cooked very little, with butter and salt

user15026

@StrixVaria Fun!

Kevin van der Velden

9:04 PM

@AshleyNunn yeah I've never had those

Jason Berkan

My oldest will try everything I ask him to.

Kevin van der Velden

My mom is not what you would call a great cook

StrixVaria

@JasonBerkan That's less fussy even than I am.

user15026

@KevinvanderVelden We always had a garden growing up, so I liked a lot of veggies fresh

user15026

but canned peas are the WORST.

user15026

9:04 PM

almost as bad as creamed corn.

user15026

(so I guess not the worst, but eh, sentiment.)

Kevin van der Velden

Oh hell, I'm trying to bloody recall the name of peas in my native language. What the hell me

user15026

@KevinvanderVelden What is the word for peas?

Jason Berkan

I was a very picky eater as a kid. I'm far less picky as an adult.

StrixVaria

@JasonBerkan Yeah, I've definitely gotten less picky, but I'm not all the way to trying anything you put in front of me yet either.

Kevin van der Velden

9:06 PM

Erwten! That's it

(Thank you google translate)

user15026

@KevinvanderVelden How do you pronounce that?

user15026

(I am trying to wrap my face around it and failing)

FAE

@AshleyNunn Aw, I love creamed corn

Powerlord

Huh, I just learned that in Java, when creating a BigDecimal from a float/double, you should always use BigDecimal.valueOf instead of the constructor.

FAE

@KevinvanderVelden Erwten

user15026

9:07 PM

@FAE Like the stuff from a can? It always made me sad. I like corn, just creamed is weird.

Kevin van der Velden

Uuh, I don't know phonetic alphabet. Air-tun is accurate I think

@FAE yeah I figured it out (or google translate did)

Powerlord

Because new BigDecimal(0.1) will give you a BigDecimal with the value 0.1000000000000000055511151231257827021181583404541015625

but BigDecimal.valueOf(0.1) gives you a BigDecimal with a value of 0.1

user15026

@KevinvanderVelden Okay, that helps. :)

user15026

I should get back to my Duolingo stuff, I think I was just getting to food words. :D

FAE

@AshleyNunn Yeah, I dunno, I've always liked the taste, especially as it's not available in this country

Kevin van der Velden

9:08 PM

@Powerlord Well yeah, that's the most accurate you can get to 0.1 in doubles =p

FAE

@AshleyNunn whoops, thanks for the reminder, I have 52 minutes to do that today

user15026

@FAE See it was one of those things we ate a lot along with canned peas because they were cheap, so I think I am more bored of it than anything.

Ktash

@Powerlord "Meh, close enough" -Java

Kevin van der Velden

Speaking of 52 minutes to do stuff today: I should go to bed

user15026

And I don't like soft food that isn't supposed to be soft (like canned peas vs peas)

Kevin van der Velden

9:09 PM

@Ktash "Meh, close enough" - Binary 64 bit floating point numbers

murgatroid99

@Ktash That's the actual value of the floating point value closest to 0.1

Powerlord

@KevinvanderVelden Well, yeah, but the point is... why do the two act differently?

murgatroid99

@Powerlord My guess is that valueOf does extra calculation to figure out what value you actually wanted

FAE

@AshleyNunn Yeah, we mostly had canned growing up as well. We eat frozen a lot now, if not fresh, and there's so much more flavor.

murgatroid99

I think you can also use the constructor with "0.1" to avoid that issue

Ktash

9:10 PM

... I really don't know what to do with this room sometimes. I make fun of Java, people jump to correct it as a limitation of something else. I say "meh, I like PHP alright for certain things" and I'm labeled a blasphemer

Powerlord

@murgatroid99 Yes, you can.

Kevin van der Velden

@murgatroid99 Actually it uses Double.toString

user15026

@FAE yeah, I buy frozen with few exceptions til it is CSA season, because frozen is cheaper but not icky like canned

Kevin van der Velden

> Translates a double into a BigDecimal, using the double's canonical string representation provided by the Double.toString(double) method.

Jason Berkan

@Ktash No one is ever allowed to like PHP for anything.

2

user15026

9:10 PM

CSA season means ALL THE VEGGIES

Powerlord

Is it bad that I'm going back and adding commented out JPA annotations to my data classes?

Ktash

@JasonBerkan Well when it comes to web dev, there isn't really a lot of good choices, so I'm ok with it :P

murgatroid99

@Ktash Making fun of Java for the limitations of IEEE standard floating point numbers doesn't make sense. Making fun of PHP for the myriad failings of PHP makes a lot of sense

Powerlord

Commented-out because we don't use JPA. :|

Kevin van der Velden

@Powerlord one takes the value of a double and makes a bigdecimal out of it. The other takes a double, stringifies it (losing accuracy in what is stored but solving this particular inaccuracy) and makes a bigdecimal out of that

Jason Berkan

9:12 PM

@Ktash .NET MVC FTW.

Powerlord

But I don't expect to be on this project much longer and JPA annotations are a sort of meta-documentation.

murgatroid99

@KevinvanderVelden I'd guess that stringifying it does what Python does: output the shortest decimal number with the given floating point representation

Ktash

@JasonBerkan Requires Windows server (mostly), .NET will modify your output in certain instances of things, and a simple page is still a complex thing to build

Kevin van der Velden

@murgatroid99 Dunno, I think it's more like a fixed number of values after the comma

murgatroid99

@KevinvanderVelden It could be that too

actually, that probably makes more sense

Kevin van der Velden

9:16 PM

What doesn't make sense is the Py_XDECREF/Py_XINCREF macros but that's solved for today

Now it is time for bed I think

murgatroid99

@KevinvanderVelden I don't see the problem. They look pretty reasonable to me

Kevin van der Velden

@murgatroid99 Py_XINCREF( PyObject_CallObject( func, val ) ): guess how many times the function is called?

Or uuh, decref* not incref

murgatroid99

@KevinvanderVelden OK, you're doing work in a macro argument. That's always a bad idea

Kevin van der Velden

Py_DECREF isn't a macro, Py_XDECREF is described "Hey this is like Py_DECREF except it checks for null"

And it's easy (in not ancient C compilers) to make it not a problem

murgatroid99

@KevinvanderVelden the documentation says it's a macro

Kevin van der Velden

9:22 PM

do {PyObject* t =(VAL); if ( t ) Py_DECREF( t ); } while ( false )

@murgatroid99 yeah, does it say it will evaluate the code multiple times?

murgatroid99

@KevinvanderVelden you should never assume that a macro will only evaluate each argument once

Kevin van der Velden

@murgatroid99 for something like a decrement reference count? Yeah I kinda would

GodEmperorDune

@Ktash django

murgatroid99

@KevinvanderVelden I mean as a completely general rule. For any macro, you shouldn't pass arguments that can't be used more than once unless you know the macro only uses it once

If you don't read the macro definition, you're going to get in trouble by making assumptions about what it does that aren't specified in the API or mandated by macro definition rules

Ktash

@GodEmperorDune Eewwww, python D:

murgatroid99

9:28 PM

@Ktash At least python is a consistent and reasonable language

GodEmperorDune

@Ktash i used to be like that. i thought i could never give up braces. then i actually used it and was impressed by how much easier everything is

Kevin van der Velden

@murgatroid99 no real disagreement there

Batophobia

Straight HTML is obviously the best choice for web dev

Ktash

@murgatroid99 So consistent, it doesn't even let you write it how you want. It tells you how to write it. Want an indent here? Sorry, we can't let you do that

@GodEmperorDune I learned on python, and I'm never going back if I can help it

Kevin van der Velden

Though I'd point out that in most of the cases where it's a problem to do work in the argument of a macro it's because the macro is poorly written, not because there's a need for it

Lazers 2.0

9:29 PM

0

Q: GTA V PC Movement Problems

So the main part of my problem is that in GTA Online my player will get stuck going in a certain direction while running, walking, or driving and nothing I press will fix it. I can't change the direction they are moving or fix them if they're going around in circles. It lasts for a while as well....

murgatroid99

@Ktash You're more worried about aesthetics than type consistency and behavior consistency?

Kevin van der Velden

Cya chat! Bed is calling

GodEmperorDune

@Ktash its your loss, tbh :D

murgatroid99

PHP users have literally no moral high ground for complaining about issues with other languages

GodEmperorDune

i like how the python compiler says do it the proper way or gtfo

Frank

9:32 PM

I spent all day today refactoring database connection code.

GodEmperorDune

because then everyone is forced to do it the proper way

Frank

Only something like ~800 lines to delete in one application.

user15026

Gave my cousin a copy of "Go the Fuck to Sleep" when it came out.

Ktash

@murgatroid99 I'm worried more about readability, usability, consistency of compilation, and code clarity, especially for the sake of bugs

badp

Last Week Tonight with John Oliver: Doomsday Video (HBO)

►

Ktash

9:32 PM

@murgatroid99 Good thing I'm not a PHP coder first then. I'm a JS coder :P

murgatroid99

@Ktash And yet, you use PHP?

MBraedley

Accounting for all the errors I'm seeing at work is going to cost me my sanity. I honestly don't know what's real and what isn't anymore.

badp

I almost wish I could use PHP at my job instead of this tower of babel Java monstrosity

user15026

She just tweeted me right now and was like "Child found the book, is asking me who it came from. I told him it came from you, he said that made sense, you have a potty mouth"

Ktash

@murgatroid99 Of course. PHP has quirks, and more than most languages, but it is also a simple fast template language with the power I need to do projects at most any level

user15026

9:33 PM

AND I EVEN TRY TO BE GOOD AROUND HIM

user15026

(he's 6)

GodEmperorDune

@AshleyNunn rub it in, will ya :p

Ktash

@AshleyNunn Nice :)

user15026

@GodEmperorDune laughs

user15026

I am still surprised you didn't know that :P

badp

9:34 PM

If you want to get a glimpse of the hellish tower of abstraction we're working with, go look at the Vaadin demo page with the browser inspector open on the network page.

GodEmperorDune

@AshleyNunn yeah i have no defense

murgatroid99

@Ktash PHP is quirks. Though, I guess it can be considered fast if you get that Apache plugin that makes it so that you don't have to recompile everytime someone opens a webpage

Ktash

@badp Oooh, Java for web. I'm sorry. I'm so sorry :(

GodEmperorDune

@Ktash jsp > php

Ktash

@murgatroid99 PHP has one of the biggest development communities on the web in terms of server side languages. There are lots of tools and systems to speed things up and get up and going on pretty much anything you want

@GodEmperorDune No. False. Java is never the solution for the web. It's very rarely the solution in general

murgatroid99

9:36 PM

@Ktash That's true of basically the top 5 web languages

I could probably take less than half an hour to set up a web server in Node, or Ruby, or Python, from a new install of Ubuntu

badp

@GodEmperorDune demo.vaadin.com/sampler/#ui/data-input/dates/popup-date-field

Ktash

@murgatroid99 And I can do it in 10 seconds, start to finish with a brand new Ubuntu

badp

This is many things, but it is not JSP.

This is a system where whenever something happens the browser asks the server in panic "oh god what should I do now"

murgatroid99

@Ktash I'm pretty sure sudo apt-get install php5 apache takes more than 10 seconds

badp

This is basically SSH for the internet, and it's nowhere as cool as it sounds.

murgatroid99

9:38 PM

And that's if you want to use PHP 5.4, which is passed EOL

badp

gfycat.com/ImpartialSereneCopperhead

Ktash

@murgatroid99 On Ubuntu server, I believe PHP and apache are installed by default :P

At least they were last time I pulled a new Ubuntu build down

murgatroid99

@Ktash but not python?

Ktash

@murgatroid99 Sure it is. Is it hooked into apache and serving pages though?

badp

Django doesn't work like that. You specify URLs through regular expressions which catch the arguments to the view functions.

something like $/product/(\d+)^

murgatroid99

9:40 PM

I don't know. And really, I don't even think it matters. The marginal minutes difference in setup time between PHP and Python pales in comparison to the cost of using PHP

Ktash

@badp For MVC stuff yes. You can do the same thing in PHP with Laravel

badp

or you hook up your own mechanism

murgatroid99

@badp you don't have to use Django. Flask is really nice for lightweight web development

badp

Glad to see you've done your homework

Powerlord

@Ktash Mmmkay

badp

9:41 PM

If you've tried them both and like PHP better, more power to you. I care more about uninformed opinions.

Powerlord

You are aware that Java has a large presence on the web, right?

badp

@Powerlord A lot of websites are awful, yes.

Ktash

@murgatroid99 For you. But for me, I think the speed at which I can develop projects at, PHP works more than fine for most everything I need

badp

The one I'm working on is really awful.

Powerlord

Incidentally, I think I'll go create an @RequestMapping while waiting for this to finish so I can go home.

GodEmperorDune

9:42 PM

@Ktash for me, i look for what takes me less time to debug

Ktash

@Powerlord what @badp said

badp

Although this goes way out of its way to be awful

Powerlord

@Ktash @badp mentioned specific software. I wouldn't assume everything Java sucks if I were you.

badp

Basically it abuses a blog engine that can contain Java "portlets" which can be interactive

Powerlord

I've never used Portlets, but I can't see why I would use them instead of Spring MVC

badp

9:43 PM

However, we only have one of them, and what it does is it downloads a glorified spring context file from a database.

Ktash

@Powerlord The few times I've worked with Java servers, they were a nightmare to configure, setup and serve pages through

badp

This spring context file in turn loads everything else.

Ktash

@badp Yeah, I've used a lot of different engines. PHP just happens to be the one I go to because of a) how used to it I am and b) the power it offers to build as I go quickly

badp

What this means, and I have no idea how to work around this, is that once Spring loads your class, it's "locked in" until you restart the presentation server.

Powerlord

I dislike writing raw Java JSPs and such (and yet, I'm paid to do it), but there are a lot of things that make Java web development easier. I'm still on the fence on whether I like Spring Boot or not.

badp

9:45 PM

There's something wrong with a context file? The whole portlet won't work. Fix it and restart the server.

Powerlord

I can write a Spring Boot/Spring MVC site without ever touching an XML file.

badp

A little error prevents the entire page from rendering? Fix it and restart the server.

Everything looks fine but a small thing is off? Fix it and restart the server.

Restarting the server takes ~10 minutes.

Ktash

Out of PHP, .Net, perl, java, js, and ruby, I stick mostly with PHP unless I have project requirements that demand something PHP doesn't give me easily

Powerlord

However, Spring Boot's default configuration is to embed Tomcat into a jar instead of creating a WAR file, which is a Bad Idea(tm)

badp

When the system isn't overloaded because, say, a virus scan we can't see, or pause, is running in the background, taking both memory and disk activity, while our system is already thrashing memory pages like they were in last week's newspaper.

Lazers 2.0

9:47 PM

0

Q: Why is it when I do "/kill @e [type=!player]" in a command block I die?

I need this command to be able to reset my mini-game map, but I don't know how to do it! Am I doing it wrong?? I've found other websites that say its just like that, so I don't know what I'm doing wrong. Help would be greatly appreciated (although please no mean comments please!)

minecraft-redstone

GodEmperorDune

> Help would be greatly appreciated (although please no mean comments please!)

Ktash

@badp Yeah, Java's bad about that :(

badp

I just wish I could do basic shit like hot patching code. The sort of benefits you switch to languages like Java for

Powerlord

Does it not have the option to stop/restart the app instead of the entire app server?

badp

What we instead get is all of Java's performance and expressiveness with all of Python's compile time guarantees.

@Powerlord Yes. Doing so breaks The One Portlet until the server is restarted.

Powerlord

9:49 PM

By default, JSP is hot swappable... class files, not so much

Of course, that's just the default. Where I work we have JSP recompilation disabled as we compile all the JSP pages up front for performance reasons.

Well, that and our dev server decided to start spazzing out at some point.

badp

@Powerlord some classes we can recompile and hot deploy. It's hard to tell but I think it's the ones that aren't loaded in by Spring directly.

The iteration cycle is however devastatingly frustrating.

The only advantage is that I can parallelize sever startup and recompilation because classes aren't "locked in" until the blog system goes up.

This means of course that both will be even slower.

but concurrently so.

There HAS to be a way to unbreak this shit.

I'll be damned if I knew what it was.

Powerlord

Bleah, forgot to create a new git repo for this code and I should have left like 30 minutes ago.

badp

HAHAHAHAHAHA git :(

GodEmperorDune

@badp what vcs are you using?

Powerlord

@badp This isn't a work thing, so I'm not stuck using svn for it.

badp

9:58 PM

@Powerlord HAHAHAHAHA svn :(

GodEmperorDune

41 secs ago, by GodEmperorDune

@badp what vcs are you using?

badp

@GodEmperorDune This is a bank and banks have a lot of COBOL and ChangeMan is "popular" for COBOL and Serena bought ChangeMan and Serena also has Dimensions for non-COBOL stuff.

So it's Serena Dimensions, probably the only VCS that could make me wish I was using CVS instead.

I mean.

GodEmperorDune

@badp i am so sorry

Powerlord

@badp No, not the only one. eyes Visual SourceSafe hiding in the distance

badp

I've seen ChangeMan's built in editor and it's kinda cool.

Powerlord

10:00 PM

Anyway, I should have left work 30 minutes ago.

badp

You can write commands where line numbers are and do vim-my things like duplicating lines, setting bookmarks, collapsing lines, etc.

Powerlord

If I stay much longer, the lights go out and I might be eaten by a Grue.

badp

It could be doing worse for something that's stuck in a 80×25 terminal and uses four precious lines for menu and help text.

I wouldn't be able to work on a verbose language like COBOL with screenfuls of 20 lines at a time, but they can.

(or any programming language)

SaintWacko

@badp We use CVS at work :(

GodEmperorDune

@SaintWacko we use files with dates at the end

foo-20150420.cfm

SaintWacko

10:04 PM

@GodEmperorDune i am so sorry

Ktash

Grammer people! I need help defeating my nemesis: Affect/Effect. Is it "to effect change" or "to affect change"?

badp

@SaintWacko If I want to create a folder I must create a ticket. If I want to rename any file I must create a ticket. If I want to delete a file I must create a ticket. If you don't have the lock on any file, you can't commit it. You can only commit files individually. Each file has its own separate individual commit history. There is no such thing as "roll back to things as they were this morning"

@Ktash cause

@Ktash drive

GodEmperorDune

@Ktash needs more context, both are appropriate in what you mentioned

Ktash

@badp I already used cause earlier in the sentence :(

badp

@Ktash bring

Ktash

10:06 PM

@badp Drive might work

@GodEmperorDune THIS IS WHY THESE WORDS ARE MY NEMESES

murgatroid99

@Ktash Without additional context, I think "to effect change" is more commonly used

Ktash

"how ideas are (e|a)ffecting change in the world"

GodEmperorDune

@Ktash in general, actions can affect something, but actions can also cause an effect

Batophobia

@Ktash cc @AshleyNunn

murgatroid99

@Ktash "affecting change" would mean more "modifying change", but "effecting change" would mean more "causing change"

badp

10:07 PM

@Ktash I think you need a little recap

GodEmperorDune

@murgatroid99 this

badp

"Weird Al" Yankovic - Mission Statement

►

Ktash

@murgatroid99 Thank you. That's what I had

badp

This video should address all of your vocabulary wants.

Ktash

@badp Oh trust me, I've read lots of stuff on it millions of times. My brain refuses to differentiate the two successfully

murgatroid99

10:09 PM

@Ktash Basically, "effect" as a verb means "cause", and "affect" as a verb means "have an effect on"

GodEmperorDune

dammit @murgatroid99, always inb4ing me

badp

@Ktash You just need to use proven methodology.

GodEmperorDune

and also explaining it better

murgatroid99

Google Search was really helpful: I got most of that from searching "define:effect" and "define:affect"

Ktash

@murgatroid99 Yeah. But then my brain always starts going "well but you can look at it this way and it still totally makes sense." Its something my brain refuses to work with

GodEmperorDune

10:13 PM

@Ktash i think you need to trust in google

@murgatroid99 til the define: prefix in google searches

Ktash

@GodEmperorDune I don't use Google :P

GodEmperorDune

@Ktash facedesk

user15026

@murgatroid99 This :)

murgatroid99

@Ktash That's to be expected from someone who thinks PHP is a good language

Ktash

@murgatroid99 Duck Duck Go FTW

user15026

10:14 PM

I mean in context, I'd eschew affect/effect entirely, as it is kinda a weird feeling sentence - what do you mean, that the ideas are creating change?

Sterno

6

Q: How can I stop my shower from dripping

My shower thermostat cartridge is old and it leaks, so my shower head continually drips. I am planning to rebuild my whole bathroom in the next couple of months, but until then, how can I stop the annoying drips 24 hours a day? The shower has a single control, to turn from off, through cold, to...

home bathroom water

Plumbing.SE

John

@Chippies I would play that just for the music.

Ktash

@AshleyNunn I've changed it around now. Which meant switching the word. "... how ideas like and very much including __ are affecting the world"

user15026

@Ktash yes, better :D

badp

@LessPop_MoreFizz

THIS IS ALL YOUR FAULT

murgatroid99

10:16 PM

@Ktash I'll admit that I may be a little biased, but Google Search is clearly a better search experience

GodEmperorDune

@badp you guys got a permit for those guns?

Ktash

@murgatroid99 Depends on what you want from your search experience. Personally, Duck Duck Go is a far better search experience, even if it isn't always as good at putting the right thing at the top :P

murgatroid99

@Ktash I don't understand that last sentence. Isn't the purpose of search to find what you are looking for?

Yuuki

@Unionhawk Part of me wants to downvote the Lego Movie just to see you nominate it again for the next Movie Night.

Unionhawk

@Yuuki I will not.

GodEmperorDune

10:19 PM

@Unionhawk i will take up the torch

Ktash

@murgatroid99 Yes. The price of the information is the difference

GodEmperorDune

@Ktash what price is that?

GnomeSlice

@badp best video

murgatroid99

@GodEmperorDune giving your own information to Google, I assume

Ktash

@GodEmperorDune duckduckgo.com/about

murgatroid99

10:25 PM

Personally, I think we can be trusted with that information, but I can understand why you wouldn't take my word for it

GodEmperorDune

@murgatroid99 imo, it's not even about trust anymore. google products deliver significant value to me and i am fine with trading my personal info for those services

Ktash

@murgatroid99 Heh, for me it's not about trusting or not trusting anyone. It's about the fundamental concept of privacy in a digital world. And I tend to hold a somewhat extreme opinion on the matter

FAE

@Ktash I've a friend who feels the same. He doesn't use any google products whatsoever, nor many other typical services that most people do nowadays. He still doesn't even have a mobile phone.

murgatroid99

@GodEmperorDune I mean "trust" as in trusting them to use the information only the way they say they will and protecting it well

FAE

He's incredibly diligent about his privacy.

I don't know how he does it.

Ktash

10:28 PM

@FAE I'm the same way, though I'm still trying to figure out how to weed a few of my email accounts off of gmail, because there isn't a really good privacy conscious competitor that I've seen yet.

@FAE It's tough, and comes at a cost

user15026

7

GodEmperorDune

@Ktash i thought hushmail was private

FAE

@Ktash Yeah, he has his own email server that he uses.

user15026

Me and nessie are ready for soup.

GodEmperorDune

@AshleyNunn so jealous, where did you get that one again?!

RedRiderX

10:29 PM

@AshleyNunn Does it stand up well?

user15026

@RedRiderX It does!

Ktash

My friends always gripe about the fact that I don't have a Facebook, and only use Twitter and things for work

Frank

@AshleyNunn Good soup?

user15026

@GodEmperorDune animicausa.com/shop/Nessie-Ladle/tpflypage.tpl.html

Ktash

@FAE That's the route I'll likely be going. Just got to find a good way to host it and some good software to use (or make my own, which could be fun)

user15026

10:30 PM

@Frank Delicious soup.

FAE

@Ktash Yeah, it is. He didn't even have a credit card for the longest time either, so he couldn't do online purchases. I think he may have a temp one now.

Frank

@AshleyNunn Yay!

FAE

@AshleyNunn Best thing

user15026

@FAE It is making me so happy

Ktash

@GodEmperorDune See, that's alright, but I also don't think privacy should be for the rich, so charging for private services, while understandable, is also something I'm not sure I support. There's a balance between cost and privacy that I don't think very many places do correctly

FAE

10:32 PM

@Ktash We help him out and purchase stuff like the occasional Humble Bundle when he wants one (he doesn't use Steam either) or ebooks (also don't use Amazon) and then he pays us back in cash.

Ktash

@FAE That's one I know I'll never bite off. If I was going to do it right, I'd just use cash and buy temporary credit cards for purchases online and stuff. But that's a huge pain in every possible way

murgatroid99

@Ktash When you say "privacy conscious" here, what do you mean? What would you expect a privacy conscious email provider to do?

FAE

@Ktash Haha, it is, that's what he does. I'm not sure he even has a debit card...

Ktash

@FAE Also, that's awesome you all are willing to do that. Seriously, I'm sure he appreciates it a lot!

@murgatroid99 Not collect and associate my personal information with advertising data, especially not through email content or other connected information. Also, not use my email to build a continual profile on me, tracking me through various services and sites

Outlook, Gmail, and Yahoo (the big 3 providers) all do that

As do most of the smaller providers

user15026

@Ktash unrelated, have you seen the version of Cinderella with Whoopi Goldberg in because I am watching it right now and it is AMAZING

Ktash

10:36 PM

@AshleyNunn Ummm, yes? I think so. Roger's and Hammerstein version, right?

user15026

@Ktash Mhm

user15026

It is wonderful.

FAE

@Ktash He's our friend, we've known him for over a decade, and while it may be a strange or even obsessive thing to other people, we know it's important to him and we respect that. We don't put photos of him or his wife or mention them by name on Facebook either. Like it'll be "We went to the zoo with X, Y, and a couple other friends" in a post or we'll edit the photos appropriately.

@AshleyNunn I remember watching that on TV way back when it aired!

Ktash

Yep. Been a while, but yeah. That version is an interesting version. I liked it. That's the same version I saw as a play a few weeks ago, and it was amazing in play form too

user15026

@FAE I have friends I do this for as well. It's not something I care about myself, but I will definitely respect anyone in my life who does so, and help if I can.

user15026

10:37 PM

@Ktash It's so great.

user15026

@FAE I never saw it and tumblr was fangirling over it for some reason so I decided to download it

FAE

@AshleyNunn Yeah, it's not like it's a lot of effort to avoid doing so, and they're my friends and all.

Ktash

@FAE and @AshleyNunn You are both amazing! Very seriously. That's a big thing and I know from personal experience having people like that around is rare and wonderful. :)

FAE

@AshleyNunn It's a fun version :D

user15026

@FAE I am enjoying it muchly

FAE

10:39 PM

@AshleyNunn I can't remember what year it aired. I think I was still in HS.

user15026

@Ktash It goes with my usual "let people do what works for them as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else or themselves, and help when I can"

user15026

@FAE 1997, according to my research

murgatroid99

@Ktash I don't actually think Gmail really does any of that (excluding stuff about contacts. I know that is used to look for G+ contacts and whatnot)

FAE

@AshleyNunn Oh wow, middle school then, even. I do remember reading about it in TV Guide (I used to read TV Guide every week, I was a dork).

user15026

@FAE So did I! So I knew when the good stuff was on on our like 4 channels!

Ktash

10:41 PM

@murgatroid99 Hehe, you can actually test that it does ;) But even still, contacts and the "google profile" are two things I have issues with either way

GnomeSlice

@Rapitor download this

FAE

@Ktash My friend's really passionate and principled about online privacy and privacy regulation for consumers and stuff in general, so it's not like it's just something he's randomly quirky about or whatever (though even if he were, I'd still respect that). He tries to vote to support the candidates that support that and stuff in this country and the EU.

@AshleyNunn Haha yep!

murgatroid99

@Ktash I'm having trouble finding any Gmail ads at the moment, so it's a little tough to test. And I'm pretty sure that the contact list is pretty much just used as a personal contact list. And I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "google profile"

user15026

@FAE That's rather awesome. I have lots of stuff in my brain about privacy but I am also horribly defeatist and take the path of least resistance more often than I should.

user15026

And I like when all my stuff works together, which flies in the face of privacy so it is tricky

GnomeSlice

10:44 PM

I couldn't really care less if Google knows what kind of porn I like or what games I'm playing

Ktash

@FAE Yeah, I'm the same way. Unfortunately, in the US, that's just not really a thing. There aren't very many privacy concerned candidates (or even companies these days)

@AshleyNunn Heh, so you'd think, but not really. :)

FAE

@AshleyNunn I get that. Like, I would like to have more online privacy than I do, but like you said, it's a tricky balance between convenience and control.

@Ktash Yeah, the EU consumer protection regulations are pretty stringent here.

user15026

@Ktash A lot of it seems to require more technical minded-ness and less connected to my social group-ness than I am willing to do and the whole thing just makes me feel blergh and makes me want to hide under my bed forever

Ktash

@murgatroid99 Open a message. Usually on the side or in between messages. Also on the top last design I looked at (though not sure if that's still the case). And the Google profile is the profile tied to your phone, gmail, google, youtube, g+, and all of their other services, all built around the ads engine and data collection

@FAE I know. I'm a little jealous sometimes. But EU tends to have different issues with privacy in other ways. At least from what I can tell :/

murgatroid99

I just want to point out that Google operates in Europe, so it actually has to follow EU privacy protection rules

Ktash

10:47 PM

@AshleyNunn Well, yeah. From your perspective it's a requirement right now. But technically speaking on the engineering side, it doesn't have to be

LessPop_MoreFizz

HI CHAT

@FAE :O A wild @FAE appears!

FAE

@LessPop_MoreFizz HI

user15026

@Ktash Well, yes, but...

murgatroid99

@Ktash A lot of that information doesn't actually go to ads. I'm pretty sure the contents of your email doesn't

user15026

Never mind. I can't articulate, and my paranoia is twigging, so I am going back to my soup.

Lazers 2.0

10:48 PM

0

Q: Dark Souls 1/2/SOTFS-How do I spawn in weapons or items?

Is there a way in Dark Souls 1, Dark Souls 2, or Dark Souls 2: Scholar of the First Sin to spawn in weapons or items? I wanted to experiment with weapons that I didn't use on my first playthrough or get some practice on. Yes, I have beaten the game completely without cheating before so don't call...

dark-souls-2 dark-souls

0

Q: Why wont /testfor work?

I've been trying to do /testfor @a [r=5] for something, but it wont work! It just gives me an error message like "Data tag" something something "Unexpected "[" as first char." I've done the command before and it works, so why wont it work now?? (I know, another redstone problem... so surprising ...

minecraft minecraft-redstone

Ktash

@murgatroid99 Yes. It also operates in China. And lots of other places. It has to accommodate a lot of different restrictions in different places, often contradictory ones too. Trust me, this isn't a thing you'll make any headway on with me. As I said, my views are extreme and I know it.

@murgatroid99 It does. The contents of you mail is used to serve ads based on keywords. Microsoft had a whole ad campaign against it even. But you can see it for yourself in the ads

FAE

@LessPop_MoreFizz I need HoC season 4 like yesterday.

murgatroid99

@Ktash There's a difference between serving ads related to the content of the page the ad is on, and storing that content for aggregation

LessPop_MoreFizz

@FAE I spent this season slowly transitioning from watching it into hate-watching it.

GnomeSlice

@LessPop_MoreFizz What is hate-watching

FAE

10:51 PM

@LessPop_MoreFizz hahaha

murgatroid99

I hope you realize that if someone is going to serve you your email in plaintext (over SSL), they have to read your email, at least briefly

LessPop_MoreFizz

@FAE That said, On The Media has been doing a House of Cards recap series on their podcast that is A-MAZ-ING, because rather than the usual bunch of schlocky critics and wannabe comedians that populate most recap shows, they have people that actually held the jobs of characters on the show talking about it and that makes it super interesting and engaging.

(i.e. hearing a former state dept. guy talking about getting blackout drunk with russian military dudes during nuclear disarmament talks)

FAE

@LessPop_MoreFizz That sounds really interesting. :o

Ktash

@murgatroid99 Yes and no. It's not direct, but the information is stored differently in different ways. More aggregation based on ads for keywords gives context to your conversations, even without storing or collecting the information in aggregate for anything. You have to record what keyword served what ad, when, and in google's case, where

LessPop_MoreFizz

@FAE onthemedia.org/blogs/oncards

They've covered about half the series so far.

FAE

10:52 PM

@LessPop_MoreFizz Thank you!

LessPop_MoreFizz

@GnomeSlice It is watching a show where most of the enjoyment you get out of it comes from complaining about how bad it is and or making fun of it and or morbid curiosity about just how far down it can go.

Ktash

@murgatroid99 There's a difference between storing and reading. But yes. It will exist in some server. Which is why I will probably make my own server at some point to handle it better

murgatroid99

@Ktash You don't actually have to record that.

LessPop_MoreFizz

@FAE Oh wow what, they are way ahead of what has come out within the main OTM podcast! I have only heard the recaps through episode 6.

GnomeSlice

@AshleyNunn do you like turn-based tactics games?

Ktash

10:54 PM

@murgatroid99 Have to? No. Do? Given the amount of information visible to advertisers in their dashboard, yes.

And that doesn't count the other information they have to store to generate that info

GnomeSlice

Braveland apparently has a sequel out on android play.google.com/store/apps/…

FAE

@LessPop_MoreFizz Also, you may be interested to know that I've started watching Twin Peaks.

user15026

Damn, I want this shirt because ASAN and reasons and I have no job yet and April is almost over but aaaaaaa want

murgatroid99

@Ktash I'm nearly positive, from the privacy policy, that none of that information is stored at all, not from emails.

LessPop_MoreFizz

@FAE See Gravatar.

FAE

10:58 PM

@AshleyNunn I saw that in the newsletter and thought of you!

user15026

@FAE You don't know how much I wish I could afford it.

user15026

Actually, you probably do, because you know me ;)

Ktash

@murgatroid99 Honestly, I'd be happy to chat about this all day every day because I'm an extreme privacy advocate. But you'll be fighting an uphill battle, because of my extreme views, and I do a lot of research into the topic and can point to dozens if not hundreds of things everywhere. If you want to continue to chat though, we can maybe take it off the bridge somewhere

user15026

(also OMG YAY something that supports ASAN)

FAE

@LessPop_MoreFizz omg Dr. Teeth Jacoby

Frank

10:59 PM

This needs more burning

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