The Bridge - 2013-05-01 (page 6 of 7)

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6:00 PM

@JoshuaAslanSmith We've hashed this out on Meta quite a bit. If you really want the history, it's available there.

Blog - Stack Exchange: The Death of Meta Tags

Jeff Atwood on August 06, 2010

There are a few tags on Stack Overflow that have bugged me for a long time. Namely:

subjective best-practices beginner

best-practices beginner

beginner

But I could never quite articulate what, exactly, was wrong with these tags. It’s been bothering me more and more as time goes on. So much so, that about two months ago, I was compelled to ask on meta: Should we permanently remove the [subjective] tag?

There are some weak arguments in favor of keeping [subjective], but that’s about the best its proponents can muster. The arguments against it are much stronger. I felt Shog9 made the best case: …

@kalina...and I...are agreeing on something. Again.

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

@JoshuaAslanSmith The rules are pretty specific and simple. Genre tags are only used for question about the genre as a whole and not specific games. The same goes for platform tags.

sets fire to the Bridge

that is the Stack Overflow blog, our policy is site-wide

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

6:01 PM

@fbueckert Oh dear, the world is going to end

@fbueckert you are like a more evil me

16

Q: The Great Arqade Clean-Up of 2012

Don't just delete the tag from the question and ignore everything else. If a question also has grammatical errors, terrible title, et cetera, then fix it along with removing the tag. Let's Get This Party Started Considering the positive response to Oak's meta, I think it's about time we beg...

discussion tags

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

@kalina Now... kiss?

@YiJiang'sEvilClone he has a beard... itchy

@kalina I'm a big proponent of random and rampant violence.

I find it solves everything.

6:02 PM

@fbueckert random violence is definitely a lot of fun

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

@fbueckert I see. I guess you enjoy using XML too

@YiJiang'sEvilClone If I have to.

@kalina Beards are itchy ... Okay. note to self: finally grow a beard, arse.

SO MUCH SUGAR

@FEichinger It depends on how long you let it go.

I found my cutoff is at the 2.5 month mark. After that, it gets super itchy.

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

6:04 PM

@kalina You mean citrus acid. They won't be sour otherwise.

it's the sugar I'm dealing with right now

@fbueckert I proposed a new tag wiki except to help make it clearer and moved the old to the expanded version.

YAY SUGGESTED EDITS

I can finally retag ... Wheee ... sigh

approve

6:06 PM

@Ullallulloo Four suggested edits, four approvals.

@fbueckert 8 rep!

maybe you should go on a tag wiki editing spree

hint hint

go go

@Ullallulloo tco

@badp ?

19 mins ago, by Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

Still need to set up a synonym

@fbueckert it means we can afford more than 1 tag/question. A cookie to who can write us a small query to determine the average number of tags per question on the site

I suppose we'll end up in the neighbourhood of 1.2

6:16 PM

@badp And that's what I meant. I was pointing out the fallacy of, "It exists, therefore it must be used".

@fbueckert It doesn't have to but we don't either have to be super stingy on what tags we allow in slots 2-5

Sure, meta tags? No, thank you

Subgame tags? I don't see the problem

@badp And for those games that need it, we do use the subgame tags.

So we can't tag everything "game"? Darn.

Like, if you have a question about an LoL hero does it hurt to tag it as (say) lol-raven?

Does it matter if that tag will only ever get ~5 questions?

@badp Depends on who you ask, really.

I don't really care one way or the other.

6:18 PM

@badp we had the tag deletion script disabled for a reason

I would take that as a "no, it doesn't matter"

in fact we have a number of tags that only have one question on them, just because they're the right tag to use

Well, it wasn't disabled for that reason

but it is convenient for the argument

EVERYTHING @KALINA SAYS ABOUT SOUR SKITTLES IS TRUE

we care far more about not using the wrong tags that we do about tags only having one or a handful of questions on them

SOUR SKITTLES ARE MORE FUNDAMENTAL TO MY EXISTENCE THAN CAKE

I love how Skittles makes people type in all caps.

SUDDENLY I WISH THAT THEY WEREN'T OUT OF SOUR SKITTLES :C

6:23 PM

SOUR SKITTLES ARE PROOF THAT THERE ARE MORE ADVANCED FORMS OF LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

NO MERE HUMAN COULD CREATE SUCH PERFECTION

SUDDENLY I WISH TORGUE SOLD SOUR EXPLOSIVE SKITTLES! BUY TORGUE!

3

(this is seriously some turn of events in chat...)

I am now shunning @YiJiang'sEvilClone for his Skittle doubt.

Arg, I hate this class >.> communicating well is for people who have time for such things, which I don't.

I like Skittles. Especially when used to infuse vodka.

6:27 PM

Gah, why is my molecular crafter not crafting?

@fredley needs more skittles

@fredley Add more skittles

@fredley What have you done now to break it?

@fredley Add vodka

@Unionhawk Nowt!

6:27 PM

@OrigamiRobot ...

Aside from not enough skittles

@kalina high-five

Which is obvious

Because there's never enough

@fredley Is it a crafter that is molecular or does it craft molecules?

@Coronus Yes

6:28 PM

Woah.

@fredley I am going to assume that you broke it, and that it is your fault. Because any issue that isn't your fault, I have already told you how to fix it. No other issues are possible.

@Unionhawk :(

@fbueckert I don't know what sour skittles are and they don't sound great buy EXPLOHSIONS MOTHERFUCKER!

starred.

@fredley You checked the crafting monitor and cleared any missing items?

@badp Exactly.

I haven't even played that DLC, and already I love it.

6:30 PM

@badp TORGUE SOUR EXPLOSIVE SKITTLES ARE REALLY JUST EXPLOSIVE ROUNDS BECAUSE WE DON'T GIVE A $%^&

2

user image

@OrigamiRobot Mini grenades.

@OrigamiRobot Now I'm salivating. Thanks.

My mouth is watering just thinking about sour skittles.

@OrigamiRobot GODDAMMIT WHY IS ALL THE CANDY GONE DOWNSTAIRS T-T

Well, they got about 50 boxes of hot tamales, but nobody likes those

6:32 PM

One of my co-workers left a case of Red Bull in the kitchen.

@OrigamiRobot Those are the best things.

I think they're trying to tell us something.

Now I want them, but I can't have them. :(

Shit, I should probably be writing my resume for this class that is happening right now.....

I'ma go do that then...

@Unionhawk You won't guess what fixed my crafter

I unplugged it, and then plugged it back in again

6:35 PM

@fredley IT: "Did you try restarting?"

Is @kalina in a skittle coma?

I don't think the sugar from the amount of Skittles she must have eaten would be broken down so quickly.

I'm making Sharepoint do fun things.

And occasionally, I'm making it do things it was never meant to do.

6:51 PM

@OrigamiRobot I wish

@kalina I just texted my mom (who works for a vending supply company) to ask how much a box of sour skittles is.

@OrigamiRobot Those look like diabetes pills

Do not speak ill of sour skittles.

WTF DUNGEON HEARTS

"Save and Quit" doesn't mean "Please make me start over next time"

Goddammit.

A box of sour skittles is $17.50

There are 36 packs to a box.

Daniel Palamarchuk

7:04 PM

Hi everyone, I am back after a vacation of one month!

@OrigamiRobot .49 apiece

@DanielPalamarchuk Welcome back

@badp Gas stations sell them for at least double that.

e-dicks rejoice! Waving around your e-peen around with those 3DMark scores is 50% cheaper! CALL NOW!

Daily Deal - 3DMark, 50% Off: #SteamDailyDeal http://bit.ly/ZVSmcb

Tweeted by steam_games on May 1, 2013 at 5:39 PM

lolbenchmarking

@fredley I believe it.

@OrigamiRobot About $1.19 at the lowest, I've seen

And yes, my apostrophe troubles continue. Sigh.

7:21 PM

Ok third boiler explosion today, wtf is going on

it was set up fine, running fine, then boom

identically setup boiler: 0 explosions

@fredley Check the brand. Was it Torgue?

Did you add vodka?

@fredley More sour skittles.

@badp This was probably it.

And you probably set up your water wrong, or maybe only part of it is chunkloaded

7:22 PM

@Unionhawk I feel like a skittle king

TORGUE BOILERS EXPLOHDE LOUDLY WHEN USED CORRECTLY (AND REQUIRE COPIOUS AMOUNT OF CAPITAL LETTERS TO BE DISCUSSED PROPERLY.)

IF A TORGUE BOILER DOES NOT BURST INTO EXPLOHSIONS YOU MUST HAVE BEEN HOLDING IT WRONG, DUMBASS.

THEY TOLD ME NOT TO USE NITROGLYCERIN IN MY BOILERS AND I TOLD THEM TO GO %$&$ A CACTUS

@BenBrocka boiled cactus sounds especially lousy

I wish Torgue was in Poker Night 2

2

you guys like Torgue too much

7:29 PM

That'd be awesome

I'm getting worried that you think about him when you're pleasuring yourself

have you ever caught yourself screaming EXPLOSSHIONNNS at the end?

also @badp could you synonym identify-this-game to game-identification ?

@kalina They're not the same.

are you sure?

I could synonym identify-this-game to guess-this-game but I should've done that 3 years ago when I couldn't and I didn't think about it.

There's no guessing involved in game-identification.

everything raised under itg gets nuked anyway

and the tag wiki for gameid outlines our policy

7:32 PM

Yeah, that happens to tags that hit 0 questions.

@OrigamiRobot That would mean that Torgue would have to lose from time to time. This kills the universe.

@kalina One could say the same about you and fire.

@badp He could be the host.

@OrigamiRobot Poker Night 3.

We can always hope.

@OrigamiRobot fire is an actual thing though, rather than some imaginary thing

MR TORGUE IS REAL

NO

7:35 PM

TORGUE LIVES IN OUR HEARTS

He's like all the blood cells that explode in our hearts and keep them pumping

ALL OF THEM

THIS IS HOW HEARTS BEAT

that's not how it works

Well no of course. He's the part of the heart that makes blood cells explode

I was trying to be ACCESSIBLE

blood cells don't explode

lol accessible

@kalina That's because you're not a believer

you are less user friendly than I am and I set people on fire!

7:36 PM

you heretic non-exploding weakling

@kalina I don't like being used

@kalina Don't mind them. EXPLOHSIONS have temporarily knocked their minds out of the world we call "reality"

@badp that must be why we don't get on very well

@Coronus I think they were born like that :(

@Coronus EXPLOHSIONS keep us alive, man.

ALL of us. EMBRACE EXPLOHSIONS FOR THEY ARE LIFE

0

Q: Do you have to beat the game in one sitting?

I've played through the game up to the first miniboss (Kali), which was a six minutes long battle that kind of worn me out. When the following encounter started, I decided that I'd take a break. After all, the pause menu says "SAVE & EXIT" and that sounded precisely like what I wanted to do. (...

0

Q: What happens if you pick up multiple Beholder's Keys?

I've noticed that sometimes you can find another Beholder's Key while you're still carrying one. Once I picked up three, but I once again had none once I used on a door. What happens to the other two? Do they return to their chests? If not, do some doors become inaccessible?

I am going to turn up to this London meetup for 15 minutes to demonstrate how explosions do not keep humans alive

7:38 PM

Just ask High Priest of Explosions @BenBrocka.

He used to love setting people's faces on fire too.

He then realized where his true allegiance was.

Besides, you can set people on fire and then explode them anyway.

Killzors

Adobe forces Ninite to stop supplying Flash updates: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/05/01/adobe_says_no/ Because Adobe wants to foist its bundled crapware on everyone.

Tweeted by segphault on May 1, 2013 at 7:30 PM

that was quick, I didn't even have time to target my massive array of nuclear weapons

Good, you destroyed the user, too.

also. Holy shit it's already May?

7:46 PM

@badp I had this exact thought earlier

It will be Christmas again soon

@kalina Shush, don't talk about it.

Gaming Topics From Outside

0

Q: Installing Call of Duty 1 with CD, error while changing CD :(

So, I am new with Ubuntu and all, and I'm trying to install Call of Duty 1 with the installation key. I have Wine installed and I open the CD file with it. It starts installing, everything is fine. But when I have to change the CD's and click OK, it says it cant open some pak file. How do I solv...

installation games cd

@kalina That means alien invasion.

I love my job

So much programming and testing and debugging

And figuring out how things work

@badp sorry, i have a horribly short fuse

7:51 PM

user image

@MarcoLeblanc happens, don't worry too much

also the asker left a comment for you in the question

@badp yea i made it reflect his question more, just like having that list there in the future.

@Ullallulloo tag wikis add up real quick when you do a bunch of them

Soooo, did any of you try Neverwinter yet? :)

Monster Hunter consumes all my free time.

8:01 PM

@MarcoLeblanc It's about half downloaded for me.

Monster Hunter does look pretty cool

I liked NWN 1/2 so it should be fun. :D

but atm my time is consumed with NW while I multibox EVE to mine like a mogul

@Ullallulloo it's quite different from NWN

really only the fact that you are in Faerun and playing by D&D rules is similar :) it's more action oriented with tons of MMO features added

@MarcoLeblanc Eh, that's fine too.

you'll see tonight :) dont let the lag discourage you! its been bad since OB launched

8:09 PM

That doesn't sound encouraging either, though.

@FEichinger well, most MMO launches are pretty much the same

they can stress test their brains out, no one knows how much traffic you are ACTUALLY going to get at launch until it happens

You said it's been bad since OB launched. Which implies that that's been the case for at least a while now.

.... OB launched yesterday ...

for non-founders

Which makes it a day. Which, unless there's a planned maintenance for these things, usually is enough for most MMOs to have their lag fixed by now. Especially with PWE.

Yeah Blizzard sure fixed error 37 in a day.

8:19 PM

Blizzard never had any confidence in Diablo 3, I would argue. But that's still beside the point - Diablo 3 was not built for that. Actual MMOs are. And, again, PWE usually handles influx pretty darn well.

Cryptic as well - never seen a company pull off a F2P transition that nicely.

So, yes, lag on launch is pretty disappointing when talking about them.

By all means, avoid it like the plague then

more bandwidth for the rest of us

Have I said it's bad? No. I said that the lag still persisting is not encouraging. Which just means "I expected a better performance there." - Which I did.

@LessPop

In a utopian society, MMO launches would go on like you say

but realistically, 90% of them have issues in the opening week, and expecting them to be flawless is just unrealistic

@MarcoLeblanc Not really, no.

Anyone worth their salt knows what will happen.

A company knows, they just refuse to input the dollars necessary to handle it.

8:29 PM

right, which is why a company like Blizzard still has ginormous launch day problems

For one, what fbueckert said. And secondly: As I said, the companies involved have proven that they're capable of it.

you guys are referring to obscure releases that no one plays, sure, there's no stress to handle

but big name releases cause big problems, every time

@MarcoLeblanc Because they refuse to provide complete coverage.

They go for, "What will the average playerbase be".

anyways we won't convince each other of anything, this is just useless banter

and estimations can never be wrong?

Which, honestly, does not make me feel like a valued customer at all.

8:31 PM

it's a free game!

you arent a customer at all

@MarcoLeblanc Average != Peak. Simple.

how can you estimate a peak?

just set it to 5 billion, in case the entire world plays?

By numbers on your other, what is it, five MMOs?

LOL

8:32 PM

Double the estimate for launch week and you're good to go.

like any of the other PWE titles are even remotely close to how big Neverwinter is going to be

@MarcoLeblanc You honestly think STO wasn't that huge?

@MarcoLeblanc I'm sorry, but that statement is simply adorable.

Seriously?

No ,i dont think STO ever had the numbers NW already has

8:33 PM

@MarcoLeblanc I sincerely doubt that.

There are tons more Star Trek geeks out there than you seem to be accounting for.

can say the same for D&D nerds

Most of it will overlap with D&D players, actually.

If anything, the numbers will be very similar.

DnD nerds who want to play a game with nothing close to the usual DnD experience?

PnP cant be replicated on a computer unless you get 4 friends on a TS server.

DnD already is an RPG. Changing gameplay to fit a broad MMO vision ... I, personally, don't see that flying well with actual DnD nerds.

8:35 PM

its just not the same thing

it's apples and oranges buddy. if you want pnp call your friends and role play

this is an online game

@MarcoLeblanc Then why did you mention them?

Then why do you make the point of DnD nerds here? I just provided an argument that counteracts your claim.

because anyone who plays dnd and keeps up with forgotten relams will have heard of NW, and will be trying it for sure

whether they persist and keep playing or not, I couldn't care less, personally

but they will try it

That still doesn't address the fact that Star Trek geeks are probably the same people. Therefore, the same population numbers.

I just see you making promises. "for sure", "is going to be". That's all nice and dandy. But you have yet to back it up with any reasonable logic.

8:38 PM

because none exists yet, the game came out yesterday

anyways, you guys are hilarious

im out

I'm just looking for any logical counter to "MMO gameplay just doesn't seem like DnD nerds would like it, because it contradicts the usual DnD experience."?

That's awesome. Our arguments are refuted by, "You're hilarious".

2

Awesome rebuttal.

user15026

Wow. I came in to the end of a fascinating argument, I see.

HAI ASH :D

@AshleyNunn I dunno. Doesn't sound like much of argument as much as, "LALALALALA"

8:45 PM

@MarcoLeblanc Dude. Diablo 3 had a free weekend where everybody on the internet could play. There were issues during the free weekend and it was down half for the weekend.

What happened on launch day? More of the same.

What was the point then?

I mean, they have sales data. They had activation data and first-hand sales data. (Simcity 3 had too.)

Which is why Diablo 3 is just an example of Blizzard having ZERO confidence in a game, regardless of sales.

It's just a horrible example in this regard, because it was just an inexplicable disaster.

You know what game is a Diablo-style game, completely free to play, completely online only and had no launch day woes that I know of?

Path of Exile.

A fucking indie game with no pay-to-win-items (or embedded fucking Nissan ads.)

Good point, yeh.

(Sure, the cosmetic items are goddamn expensive, but jeez.)

@badp They had a really long beta, too.

8:49 PM

@badp It worked for Eve, so, there's that. :P

@fbueckert The beta was closed, right? They controlled the influx of players.

@badp To be fair, every sufficiently popular game with a trading system has pay-to-win in some form.

When they opened the gates, they no longer did that.

@badp Partially. I think they had open beta afterwards.

I suppose it wasn't a high profile launch

8:51 PM

Neat thing is, you kept your characters, they just reset you back to level 1 and no equipment.

@fbueckert I don't think the open beta is over. Half of Act 3 and the entirety of Act 4 are missing

So it was a way to park character names.

I could be wrong though

@badp Or, we could still be in beta.

Haven't played in awhile.

@fbueckert Same, actually.

8:52 PM

I really should get back into that.

Sadly, Monster Hunter has consumed me.

@fbueckert I don't want to, because... when they do finish Act 3, how will they "retcon" all players that went to the second playthrough without that bit?

I mean, the game is missing one third of the content - or one third of the experience points

That's going to be a handicap if you plow straight through.

@badp Probably just by going, "Derp. You're past that, into the new difficulty. Ignore all previous difficulties."

@fbueckert Yeah, but what about the missed experience points?

@badp That's easy enough to modify.

@fbueckert Is it?

8:55 PM

Levels are easy to gain.

Especially when fighting in areas above or at your level.

So the solution is to miss levels now and grind later

@badp Not particularly. You don't need to grind, just play.

...I'm not honestly a fan of playing most games more than once anyway, so I'll just wait for the content patches :P

Heh. Fair enough.

Anyways, I'm out.

@fbueckert Well, as you add content and experience to the game, other difficulties will have to adjust respectively

Like, say Acts 1-3½ get you to level 30. Act 1-4 get you to level 40. What's the next difficulty's starting monster level after the release?

If you're at the hardest difficulty how horribly underleveled are you going to be?

They can fix this by making each level require 33% more exp but that'd be 33% more boring.

I dunno, I can't think of a good solution.

@fbueckert Later.

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Transcript for

May '131

The Bridge

General Arqade Chat. We tried to leave once, but the door lock...

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