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9:00 PM
@GraceNote I'd say that the data has the possibility to be valid.
 
@Ullallulloo Right, but answerability is only part of my problem.
 
So what about the Path of Exile questions, since it's just in open beta?
 
@OrigamiRobot My main problem is that the answer is literally unverifiable; unless you're one of the lucky ones that can play the closed beta, it's in the exact same boat as Ask the Devs questions.
 
Tangential aside: we don't uphold NDAs. If you ask about NDAd games on the site, it's your problem, not ours :)
 
@fbueckert My problem with closed betas is I think everyone should have a fair shot at answering any question.
 
9:05 PM
@OrigamiRobot That dovetails with my problem nicely.
 
@BenBrocka wOW
 
@OrigamiRobot What about all games that aren't free to play? People without money or credit cards can't answer questions about them! How unjust.
I think it's fine to ask about closed beta games.
Consider Minecraft: a customers only beta we've followed since the dawn of the site.
 
@badp Most people can get money and credit cards though.
 
@Ullallulloo What about those who CANNOT?
 
@badp To be sure, there needs to be a threshold somewhere; mine is at the verifiability mark.
 
9:07 PM
<tumblr>Check your credit card privilege, man.</tumblr>
@fbueckert I skimmed the trasncript for your treshold and I couldn't see it
 
@badp The difference is when there is a closed beta, if I didn't get an invite, there is no way I can get in.
 
also, dinner, later
 
5 mins ago, by fbueckert
@OrigamiRobot My main problem is that the answer is literally unverifiable; unless you're one of the lucky ones that can play the closed beta, it's in the exact same boat as Ask the Devs questions.
 
@OrigamiRobot This doesn't mean the site shouldn't be of service to those that did get in
 
4 mins ago, by OrigamiRobot
@fbueckert My problem with closed betas is I think everyone should have a fair shot at answering any question.
 
9:09 PM
@fbueckert If it's reasonable to assume you're the only one on the site with beta access on the game then yes it's a problem.
 
@badp Exactly. The purpose of the site is helping people find answers to their questions. We shouldn't stop someone from doing that just because not everyone will be able to answer their question. That's silly.
 
31 secs ago, by OrigamiRobot
4 mins ago, by OrigamiRobot
@fbueckert My problem with closed betas is I think everyone should have a fair shot at answering any question.
 
Not that I support allowing closed betas mind you. Closed betas are a tricky issue.
 
At what player count does a game have enough? Should we stop servicing obscure indie games "nobody" plays?
 
Betas are more publicity stunts now anyway, the beta phase of a big game has probably more potential users than many indy games here
2
 
9:11 PM
@badp Right. If it's about the closed beta, then anybody that has access to the beta should, in theory, be able to provide an answer. If it's about a game, everyone who has the game should, in theory...
 
Our current stance is, "If it exists and is playable, go ahead and ask."
Which I disagree with, but seems to have popular support, so there you have it.
 
@CruelCow People can play those though.
 
@Ullallulloo but do they?
 
To throw another monkey wrench into the already twisted discussion:
 
@fbueckert: Whilst you're busy arguing you should take your turn :P
 
9:13 PM
What about preview builds, meant for reporters?
 
@CruelCow Whether any does or not is irrelevant. Accessibility is my issue. If I want to answer a question, I should not need permission from the devs to access that knowledge.
 
@fbueckert I would say that shouldn't be allowed.
There is definitely a line somewhere. It's just a matter of finding where ti is.
 
Personally, I think questions and self-answers based off of articles someone wrote are just rep-whoring.
 
@OrigamiRobot you're buying permission with every game
 
@Wipqozn Our lovely mod agent feels differently, though.
 
9:15 PM
If rep-whoring was a crime this site wouldn't exist
 
@CruelCow Right, there is something I can do to get it.
 
@fbueckert My nemesis would hold that opinion.
temp swoosh
 
BACON!
 
@Wipqozn Turn will have to wait until I get home, I'm afraid.
 
@Powerlord Indeed
 
9:18 PM
Questions asked based off of preview articles would get closed as speculation, as we can't answer it. It's only when it's in the funny area of, "Ask question based on article, answer question based on same article." where we run into problems. Mostly it's NARQ, because there's no way the asker could HAVE the problem at the time of asking, but them's the breaks.
Also, welcome to the fuzzy line of what is, and isn't, speculation of the future of the industry.
 
This comment made me laugh.
 
@OrigamiRobot That's pretty theoretical. Will anybody ever buy a game to check the correctness of an answer?
 
1
Q: Where are the Pandora engine and rudder tuning crates?

kotekzotIn X3 Albion Prelude, you can find crates containing engine and rudder, collecting which can overtune your ship, increasing its speed and handling far beyond what is normally possible for a given model. Where can I find them? If they are random, is there a trick to locating them, like the BBS of ...

 
@CruelCow It's not about whether someone will. It's about if someone can.
 
@fbueckert I disagree. Building a system that you "know" nobody will ever use is a waste
 
9:22 PM
@CruelCow I don't see how that has anything to do with the answerability of a question.
 
@Powerlord That's awesome :D
 
^ Free pizza
 
@CruelCow What @fbueckert said.
 
Also, finished my program!
 
9:23 PM
@Ullallulloo troll cc: @LessPop_MoreFizz
 
@Ullallulloo No Papa Johns near me. :/
There isn't even one on the way home from work!
(Note: There is at least one in the city I work in)
 
@fbueckert Requiring people to be able to buy the game the question is about is pointless, if no one ever will do that.
 
@OrigamiRobot Dude, stop assuming I didn't reply to your message because I totally did
The argument that people who didn't get in the closed beta have no chance to gain reputation holds no water at all
 
@badp And my reply was the same because you obviously didn't see fair shot
@badp Did I make that argument?
 
@CruelCow You're missing the point entirely. It's not about whether someone will buy the game to check. It's if someone has the option to buy the game to answer the question.
 
9:26 PM
@OrigamiRobot Having a fair shot at building up your score is not why this site exists
 
Totally contrived question:
 
The point of the site is having answers to questions
 
I lied, according to papajohns.com, there are no stores in Lansing any more.
 
If you can't bring answers though no fault of your own, that's too bad
 
Would we allow questions about a game that can only be played by millionaires?
 
9:26 PM
I wonder what happened to the one over on Cedar St.
 
That's also not relevant to the point of the site, which is having answers to questions
 
@CruelCow Buying the game is not a requirement to answering a question, but I think it's the only acceptable outside barrier.
 
@fbueckert I'm not missing it. I'm arguing that an option that, realistically speaking, nobody will ever take ever, might as well not exist.
 
Part of the problem with having questions during a beta period is the rapid pace of change
Although you don't really see that anymore
Now betas are just a way to release a game early :P
 
@CruelCow Ok, now I understand what you're arguing against, and it's orthagonal to the issue at hand.
 
9:28 PM
@fbueckert Ah, okay. THought you were home.
 
@badp Your argument here amounts to "I disagree" so I don't really see the point in continuing down this road. I have an idea, you have a different one. I accepted the unpopularity of my opinion on the matter long ago. I am trying to leave this alone now because it is pointless.
 
@Wipqozn You'd think so, but you'd be WRONG.
 
It's more of a different perspective of point - do you value the potential for everyone to be able to answer, or do you value the presence of the people who can answer?
 
@OrigamiRobot Then stop quoting your own argument thrice in reply
thank you
 
Is it valuable to have closed-access questions that only some people, but people who are on the site nevertheless, can answer? Is it valuable to have obscure questions that anyone can answer, but no one does since no one plays it?
 
9:30 PM
I value bacon. And chocolate. And pizza.
 
@badp It's not to get rep; it's to validate the answer.
 
@badp I repeat myself when the reply does not address what I said and will continue to do so until the end of time or I get bored.
 
But not bacon chocolate pizza.
 
@Powerlord Tonight for dinner my friends and I are wrapping bacon around soft pretzels to see how that turns out.
 
@Powerlord Have you tried it?
 
9:30 PM
@Powerlord I would eat that. =/
 
I am very excited.
 
@StrixVaria Ha, seriously?
 
@GraceNote There's a side-requirement in there that might need addressing.
 
@Powerlord I believe there may also be cheese melted on top of it.
 
@Coronus No, but I don't think chocolate and tomato sauce would go good together.
 
9:31 PM
@StrixVaria How are you cooking the bacon, is it going to be pretzel dough?
 
@OrigamiRobot My not addressing your point is your opinion and that's fine. I think that while I can sympathize with your point I'm not going to put it above the one raison d'etre of the site.
 
@Coronus I'm not in charge of cooking. I'm the idea man.
I honestly don't know how we're going to get the bacon crispy while it's wrapped around pretzel.
Other people seem to think it's doable.
 
@fbueckert Care to elaborate? Because I feel like the scene in Life of Brian where they decide to fight for the right of men having babies despite being unable to do so.
 
Bake it
 
Although... one of the best pizzas I've had used alfredo sauce instead of tomato sauce.
 
9:32 PM
@Powerlord I think the key would be in the dough, and the tomato sauce will get along with the chocolate
 
@Powerlord I like pizza that uses buffalo sauce...and buffalo chicken.
 
One of our local, family-owned restaurants offers both alfredo sauce pizzas and pesto sauce pizzas.
I don't think I've ever tried a pesto one.
 
@CruelCow My understanding of your argument is that the option to purchase the game has no value at all, and there's no point at all in providing said option as it pertains to being able to answer the question.
 
@Powerlord That's a cop-out. "This awesome junk food was made better by Alfredo sauce" is pretty much built into any lactose tolerant person's vocabulary
 
@badp the only rewards I've ever seen are betas for games I've never heard of/don't want to play
 
9:34 PM
Which has nothing to do with the answerability or verifiability of any question asked.
You're ruling out the base option of someone being able to verify an answer.
Is someone going to buy a game just to verify an answer? Probably not.
But without being able to purchase (and play) it, the ability to verify it doesn't exist. At all.
 
@tiddy Alfredo makes everything better
Then again, so does pesto
 
Pesto is hit or miss with me. Alfredo might as well just be put into a caulking gun and fired directly into my bloodstream
cite [Patton Oswalt]
 
I'm actually in the Spy Party beta. And I've never launched the game.
 
Apparently I'm in the Firefall Beta.
 
The problem with Spy Party is the dev outright says that you can't really play against people of different skill levels.
Which means if I play in the Beta for it and my friends don't but get the game later...
 
9:38 PM
@fbueckert I think he's approaching verifiability from a different perspective, and that "Can anyone purchase a game?" is a poor choice because it's not a means of verification if no one takes advantage of it.
 
And since you can't preorder the game without bacon...
er... without signing up for the Beta.
 
@GraceNote Hmm.
 
Said another way, answers are currently verified largely by people either playing games that they already own, or by paper research. A closed beta system is verified largely in the same scenario, just that the people who already own it (which is just those who are in the beta) is a much smaller value than other games.
 
@Powerlord Freudian slip?
 
The problem with the whole beta issue is I keep changing my mind on which side I'm on. It just happened agaen
 
9:39 PM
@fbueckert: But answerability or verifiability doesn't rely on everybody being able to check, just that anybody is able. What we require is, that there is a chance (>0) that a user on arqade has access to the game. Being not buyable reduces that chance, but it does not make it 0.
 
@badp I said people deserve a fair shot. Your reply was "This doesn't mean the site shouldn't be of service to those that did get in." Yes, that's exactly what my argument means. Since your reply doesn't make sense, I repeated myself. I retreated and licked my wounds on this topic long ago. I'm not trying to change anything. I am just voicing my opinion to people who asked it. I don't even really want to do that.
 
@CruelCow Oh, good, I am on the same track as you are intending. I was almost afraid I was respresenting your argument incorrectly.
 
@CruelCow Which dovetails into my, "WHERE IS THE THRESHOLD!?" argument nicely.
 
I wonder if League of Legends will have a tier low enough for me
 
9:40 PM
I don't mind allowing closed beta questions.
The problem I've said, as always, is the ability to verify.
 
I'm thinking between Ash and Dirt
 
Do we allow it if a single user on Arqade can answer it?
Two? Three?
 
Maybe Mite?
 
@badp gross
 
I could compete in the Mite league.
 
9:41 PM
@badp Dust?
 
Well we can't enumerate it anyway.
 
@SaintWacko Now, now, easy there.
 
@CruelCow There HAS to be a threshold.
 
and I'd argue that more people here have access to Dota2 than say... Don't Starve
 
Competitive gaming fans seem to be assholes more often than the general population though, so I guess LoL really is perfect for that
 
9:42 PM
Currently, it's users > 0.
 
Here's the thing
 
But... if one purpose of a beta test is to test game mechanics and find faults and things that need to be fixed/balanced, wouldn't allowing questions on these things be pointless?
 
If your beta is truly that exclusive, it's going to have an NDA most likely
 
@CruelCow Dota2's a poor example because you can buy into that "closed" beta.
 
If it doesn't have an NDA, it's not exclusive enough for us to not cover the game
 
9:43 PM
@Coronus That falls into the issue of rapidly changing games and how things that are fixed/balanced means that some questions are perpetually changing or potentially completely invalidated, neh?
 
@Ullallulloo Maybe, but I'm more referring to the fact that there are so many invites that people don't know what to do with them.
 
@CruelCow I do.
 
@CruelCow Yeah, that too.
 
It's called the, "Die in a fire" plan.
2
 
@GraceNote ah. sou...
 
@Coronus Questions and answers become outdated and pointless all the time, including in fully released games
 
@Coronus That's about my feeling on it
 
@fbueckert You'll be the first person I personally know who has a plan to die in a fire.
 
@GraceNote Context! Important!
 
Who needs context when you have stars?
 
9:45 PM
@fbueckert You have so many invites that you're using them as the material fuel for your flames. That's what I got from context.
 
@GraceNote Ok, wrong context.
Silly me, expecting people to actually translate my words properly.
 
@Coronus Not to downplay the issue at all - just that it introduces another level of complexity with regards to handling beta questions.
 
@GraceNote Our current stance on rapidly changing games is the MMO approach; if it's valid when it was asked, it's allowed, just try to keep the answer up to date.
 
@badp I somehow feel that the known instability of the mechanics versus the "This is how it will be... until we have to change it" should be a factor.
 
And close questions where it's a moot point.
 
9:48 PM
@Ullallulloo top played: Dota 2 Football Manager 2013 Guess there's no accounting for taste
 
As in the patch has rendered the question entirely invalid.
 
@BenBrocka There's a Dota 2 Football Manager??!
 
As a sidenote, this is the internet, and other than my crazy hyperbole, this argument's been relatively sane. So, go, Bridge!
 
For your enjoyment, Bridge.
 
"That's all I have to do, just kill him?"
 
9:51 PM
@Coronus Luna OP, Valve plz nerf.
 
@Ullallulloo friggin patriots wallhax
That ref was aimbotting
 
@Ullallulloo The original CS has almost as many players as CS:Source and CS:GO combined! This seems crazy to me
 
0
Q: Most efficient use of Crimson Pact?

Domenik VanBuskirkAll runes/masteries/other factors aside, what combination of items will maximize the benefit from Vlad's passive Crimson Pact? The only rule I have for this is that I don't want duplicate items.

 
@MBraedley That might have something to do with it being ported to Mac and Linux a couple days ago. Not sure.
 
@MBraedley The original CS has been part of the recent top charts for the majority of times I've checked in the last...9 years? However long they've been showing those charts, anyway
 
9:56 PM
@BenBrocka I know it's charted well, but to have as many players as its two successors combined is not something you see all that often
 
And now for something more fun and less controversial: Tag discussions!
 
@CruelCow Aww, do we have to?
 
9
Q: Can one take damage from getting shot in the hat?

Mark RogersIn TF2, I usually wear smaller hats, especially as Sniper, to reduce my visual profile, so that I'm less likely to be seen. But that leads me to another question: what if one is wearing a tall hat like Dr.'s Dapper Topper? Obviously, a soldier's head only physically occupies the bottom half o...

Does anybody here want to defend ?
 
Nope, burn it
 
@MBraedley there are probably more people playing Worms Armageddon right now than the latest one or two
 
9:57 PM
ALREADY BURNINATED
 
@StrixVaria Kill stealer D:
 
Killing tags is kind of my thing.
 
@BenBrocka But Armageddon actually holds up. I can't defend Orig CS graphics compared to even CS:S
 
ME! ME!
SE even started a network-wide event based on !
 
@MBraedley I'd have suspected a migration to CS:source considering how popular the source engine is, but is CS Source missing some mechanics/mods/etc?
Worms people play Armegeddon because they took out a lot of stuff in the later ones
 
10:00 PM
@BenBrocka At this time, why would anyone migrate to CS:source instead of CS:GO?
 
@Powerlord I meant in general, CS Source has had much more time for migration than GO
 
@BenBrocka A lot of people despised the 1.5 (I think) update, and were happy that those features didn't carry over to CS:S
 
Didn't we agree that minecraft-mods don't deserve their own tag? Or did I miss the discussion?
 
@CruelCow Some mods and servers do (for instance, bukkit).
 
The problem with CS:S right now is that a lot of people didn't want to migrate from CS 1.6 to CS:S... and now it's happening again from CS:S to CS:GO.
But some people did switch.
Also, CS 1.6 is highly pirated and CS:S makes that a lot harder.
 
10:04 PM
@Powerlord But pirated copies are harder to play on VAC servers, which is what valve is counting
 
Will pirated copies actually show up in Steams stats though? I wouldn't think so
 
@BenBrocka They show up in the server browser and the dproto server extension exists to assign them (obviously) fake Steam IDs.
 
@Powerlord Who pirates a 13-year-old $10 game?
 
@Ullallulloo The same kind of people that pirate modern games.
Plus those who think they can justify it because the game is old.
 
Often the legal version cannot play with the pirated one.
 
10:12 PM
@CruelCow I think I mentioned there's a server mod to get around that.
 
@Powerlord I'm speaking generally, not just CS
 
I just noticed that TF2 has a "bind_mac" command to bind keys only on OSX.
Anyway, time to go home
 
10:28 PM
@Wipqozn Turn complete. Tank is doing his job.
 
@fbueckert This may hurt. I have no other way to attack
Yep, it hurt.
 
@badp If the tank dies, you guys won't be far behind.
Poultice time!
Glad I bought that.
 
@fbueckert oh, you just got 5 damage, stop whining :P
besides I can heal you.
(Yes, you can crit allies)
 
@fbueckert If anyone dies, the challenge ends
 
I'm just curious, what game are you guys playing?
 
10:32 PM
@SaintWacko Do the party members die, too?
 
@fbueckert No, the challenge just ends
 
@fbueckert We just blow a horn and fall back
There's no permanent consequence for failure AFAIK
 
@badp Oh, good.
That means we try again!
And next time, I give you the evil eye.
 
@fbueckert You didn't die
 
@badp Yet, is the operative word.
 
10:36 PM
@fbueckert Look, you kill this dude before my turn comes up again and I don't have to use Tremor again
Not my fault my only other spell is fire and these guys resist fire!!
 
@badp How about I switch positions with you, and let you tank for a bit? :P
 
@fbueckert Game designers say that "friendly fire" is their main mechanic for balancing the runecaster
So you better get used to it and tank some of it too!
Oh dear, Superbowl today?
 
@badp Five more days.
 
@badp No, 5 more days?
 
@badp I think it's not for another five days.
 
10:40 PM
@Ullallulloo Okay. I just saw the first tweet about it and I'm surprised I got so much advance warning
 
Hockey's on again; football is moot.
 
@badp Football doesn't happen on Tuesday!
 
I just got a spam comment!
 
@MBraedley I'm in Italy. The amount of fucks I give about your weekly schedule of american sports could be lower, but not by much :P
 
@badp it's always time for superb owls
 
10:43 PM
Superb Owl is more about the ads anyway and the half time show
It's like bizzarro world. "Stop the match already and let me watch some ads!!"
 
But the owl cheerleaders really turn heads
(Geddit? Because they're owls)
 
@BenBrocka olololololo
 
@RonanForman I got a rock :c
those are some superb owls
 
Wait, THE Superb Owl, there's only one?
 
10:53 PM
@SaintWacko 22.2 mana regen/second
 
@Coronus There are many good owls, but there can only be one superb owl.
 
Oh, joy. Wii U Virtual Console games, in addition to costing extra to re-download for the Wii U, will also not import save games from the Wii version.
Why do you keep shooting yourself in the foot, Nintendo!?
 
user15026
@fbueckert Wow. That is special. Not good special, either.
 
heh, new Nexus 7 possibly in May
 
@AshleyNunn Every option Nintendo could make to lower barriers to entry has been given the middle finger, it seems.
 
user15026
11:07 PM
@fbueckert It would seem so.
 
What is this slight feeling of dread I'm getting
 
@AshleyNunn Geez, I suck at marketing, and I could do a better job of it.
 
user15026
@fbueckert Heck, so could I!
 
@AshleyNunn Sidenote: if Star Command is getting released this month, they're almost out of time.
 
user15026
@fbueckert Yeah, I just thought about that today. I am really not holding my breath.
 
user15026
11:15 PM
But hey new (free!) Kairosoft game! :)
 
@AshleyNunn Grats, Warballoon! You have officially prevented any further Kickstarter backing due to your slipshoddy meeting of promised release dates!
 
user15026
@fbueckert Yeah, I am glad I didn't back it.
 
user15026
I think it is weird (but awesome) that Kairo seems to be mostly developing for Android - iPhone hasnt gotten anything new from them in a while.
 
user15026
Oh well! More games for me!
 
11:19 PM
@AshleyNunn Ooh!
I was just thinking, Pyraplex is getting boring.
So far, Pocket Clothier and Grand Prix Story are my favorites.
 
user15026
I loved Pocket Clothier. Mega Mall Story was also good.
 
FAE
...what the hell is a manwink?
 
I wasn't gonna ask.
 
@FAE Something I edit out of questions.
 
FAE
It's what this person put at the end of their answer. Just... what.
 
11:27 PM
I wonder if I'll regret doing a Google Image search on that
 
@fbueckert wtf goddamn it nintendo
 
@FAE Oh, I'll show you what a manwink is...
2
 
@FAE And hence why I edited it out. It's entirely unnecessary.
 
@FAE I think that's the internet version of the bathroom stall toe tapping
 
FAE
@OrigamiRobot Well get on over here then.
 
11:28 PM
brb, going to Netherlands
 
-1
A: What's the best way to fight those Enderman?

EndermanHey i Herd that you pinheads. I just Want to be Alone.

Don't tell me what to do!
 
@FAE According to Google:
Although there were some worse results.
 
FAE
@Ullallulloo Haha, you are a brave, brave man.
 
People are weird. I have a video where I played a game where one of the puzzles has a random number. About once a week I'll get a comment of someone who decided to share their random number. There's 91 comments now
I just want to shake each and every one of them and say "it's random! Random!"
 
@OrigamiRobot TAKE ME WITH YOU
 
11:32 PM
@BenBrocka Sauce?
@Fluttershy No, this is my trip.
 
@OrigamiRobot I'm going with you anyway.
 
@Fluttershy TOO LATE I ALREADY LEFT
 
@OrigamiRobot I know. :manwink:
 
FAE
@BenBrocka hahaha
 
11:32 PM
I even have two comments saying "guize it's random"
 
@Fluttershy Oh... That's what a manwink is.
 
0
Q: Can other players join my farm while I am not present?

PhaDaPhunkIn Farming Simulator 2013, you can play online with a friend so he can join your farm and play with you, but he is always "guest" in your farm. What if I want him to play overnight in my farm while I'm not there? Is there any way to share the saved file or something ?

0
Q: Is there a difference between Nintendo 64 controllers used on PAL and NTSC systems?

xiaohouzi79Is it possible to use the controllers from an NTSC (Japanese / US) Nintendo 64 system on a PAL (EUR) system? Are they the same item or is there a difference?

 
> 8675309 lololololol jenny
 
@BenBrocka Clearly they want you to analyze the numbers and see if there is a pattern, allowing you to guess them faster.
 
@AshleyNunn I am now playing Dream House Days.
 
11:36 PM
@fbueckert You too?
 
@Coronus I have played each and every Kairosoft game released for Android.
 
Everypony relax, Twilight is NOT leaving her friends, however the voice acting will be taken over by Morgan Freeman.
 
FAE
@YiJiang'sEvilClone wat
 
@fbueckert I just heard about them. Which one's the best?
 
19 mins ago, by fbueckert
So far, Pocket Clothier and Grand Prix Story are my favorites.
 
11:39 PM
Hey Manti Te'o, now that the dust is settling, I'm 5'9, blonde, sexy as hell & always fall for the bad boys, call me http://t.co/y5JElEd2
Ouch.
 
@FAE She's a massive troll on Twitter if you didn't know
 
FAE
@BenBrocka I did not.
 
11:55 PM
Yup, she is indeed. Though I'd still want to watch that.
 

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