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2:00 PM
@QAdley Orly?
 
@GnomeSlicE Yup. We had 6 Java lessons.
We got about as far as what an Exception was
 
@QAdley I was replying to your comment about ripping off designs, actually.
But that's good to know as well.
 
@danRhul My introduction to web programming was using Java as a backend language. That is NOT the easiest way to start out.
 
@QAdley My course was mostly logic, mathematics and algorithms. We had one term off Java.
 
@GnomeSlicE Yes. It's honestly the best way to learn. Find a design you like, try and emulate it. You'll gain so much understanding.
 
2:02 PM
@fbueckert Oh god, on my Masters course, they were trying to get me to do .jsp pages. What the actual eff?
 
@danRhul Ours was maths, maths, maths.
@danRhul Masters in what?!?
 
@danRhul Struts is a great Java web framework; but lacking a framework, Java's a very hacky way to go about it.
 
@QAdley It was a module in Component Based Software Development. I believe.
@fbueckert I work in a .Net environment so I don't get to use Java a great amount anymore
 
@danRhul Wow. Sounds useful!
 
Why do you guys keep talking about Coffee?
 
2:04 PM
I'm about to start in a startup. So far my plans are to do everything server-side in Python, at least to start off with.
 
@QAdley It was just frustrating that, language not being the focus of the course, they enforce a language choice on your part.
 
@danRhul My college is/was several years behind the curve. We learned Visual Basic. And PowerBuilder. Never mind that almost everything I'm using right now is .Net.
 
@Wipqozn Hah!
 
@Wipqozn Coffee is my drink of choice.
 
@danRhul Yes. I was lucky, for my dissertation project I was allowed to do anything I wanted, in any language.
 
2:05 PM
My program covers a tons of shit. It's the 'Interactive Multimedia Developer' program, and so far I've had classes in Audio edited, Audio Recording, Video Editing, Video Recording, Video Producing, Flash animation, Flash Actionscript 2, HTML, CSS, Javascript, Motion Graphics, 3D modelling , 3D animation, Adobe Illustrator, Photoshop, Adobe Director (team-based multimedia projects for client)... and more stuff.
 
@Wipqozn Because we're programmers.
 
@fbueckert I did Visual Basic at school. My teacher decided that it wouldn't be fun to teach us about for loops. Cue me writing 10,000 lines of code to simulate for loops :/
 
And I can currently do virtually none of that stuff I just posted about.
 
@danRhul I went into college already knowing programming.
 
@QAdley For my dissertation and Team project I was assorted the freedom of language choice.
 
2:06 PM
@Wipqozn Just remember JavaScript is not Java.
 
To be fair, the program seems focused on learning how to use various software (mostly adobe), and less focused on teaching actual elements of design, which I guess is the entire point.
 
Our first classes were the basic, "Here's what programming is!" things.
 
@RedRiderX I know.
 
@fbueckert I didn't start programming till I was 16. But there were people at university that had never done any programming before
 
@Wipqozn I thought so.
 
2:07 PM
So, my goal was to do every assignment in as little code as possible.
 
@fbueckert Our introduction to programming course was in ML
 
I had elegant, compact, 6/7 tier loops and if statements.
It got to the point where my teachers could recognize my code just by how complicated it was.
 
fun factor (x,1) = x
| factor (x,n) = factor(x*x,n-1);
 
@fbueckert We had to unit test also, so obviously the code base wasn't as small as it could be
 
@QAdley Heh. Machine Language. That's fun.
 
2:08 PM
@fbueckert No, not that type of ML. Not Markup Language either
ML is a general-purpose functional programming language developed by Robin Milner and others in the early 1970s at the University of Edinburgh, whose syntax is inspired by ISWIM. Historically, ML stands for metalanguage: it was conceived to develop proof tactics in the LCF theorem prover (whose language, pplambda, a combination of the first-order predicate calculus and the simply typed polymorphic lambda calculus, had ML as its metalanguage). It is known for its use of the Hindley–Milner type inference algorithm, which can automatically infer the types of most expressions without requiring...
 
My favourite module was "Algorithms and Complexity"...HOW CAN YOU PUT COMPLEXITY IN A MODULE TITLE?
 
@QAdley Rah... keep getting an 'unknown error' when I try to create an account to download some of this shit.
 
@GnomeSlicE Hmmm. Can't help you there.
 
@QAdley Hah, ours was in Processing.
 
@QAdley Oh, my - I think I just threw up
 
2:09 PM
@danRhul I like discussing radix sort with people who haven't come across it before
O(n) sorting!
 
@danRhul I was never taught unit testing. >< Or source control. Or anything else useful that wasn't code.
@QAdley That sounds painful.
 
@DaveMcClelland It's actually quite an interesting language, deeply rooted in mathematics.
People have gone away and produced the semantics of the entire language in formal notation
Which basically makes all our professors jizz everywhere
 
@fbueckert I didn't get told to use unit testing until I was doing my Masters, and because I did my Masters in conjunction with a full time dev job I had already encountered it.
 
@QAdley I used a dialect of that (SML) in a couple of programming courses
 
@QAdley Frankly, the big O notation can go f**k itself.
 
2:12 PM
@danRhul Quite. Big Theta is so much better!
 
@danRhul Oh n(O) you didn't!
 
@Wipqozn O(yes) he did
 
@danRhul I'm trying to learn it now, but when learning on the fly, you always miss something.
 
@Wipqozn THAT WAS BRILLIANT
 
@danRhul I'm a comedic genius, I know.
It's a fact everyone in this room knows, and often compliments me on.
 
2:12 PM
@Wipqozn Don't you dare star it.
 
Ah, here we go. Here's the kind of thing we were faced with in 2nd year. It's the formal semantics of ML.
 
@fbueckert I'd recommend this book, but it focuses on .Net examples amazon.co.uk/Art-Unit-Testing-Examples-NET/dp/1933988274
 
@GnomeSlicE I wasn't going to, but now I will.
 
This conversation isn't about me anymore, I'm leaving.
3
 
@Wipqozn (O)h please don't
 
2:14 PM
ಠ_ಠ
 
@danRhul I prefer .Net, actually. Clean and neat.
 
@danRhul Your incorrect syntax for big-O notation really annoys me
 
@QAdley O-face syntax?
 
@GnomeSlicE No.
 
@QAdley apologies.
 
2:15 PM
@danRhul Accepted.
 
@QAdley Did you ever have to do anything on compilers? That SUCKED, but was admittedly, quite interesting.
 
@GnomeSlicE With three stars already, I don't know if that's a sign that people want you to stay or go.
 
@danRhul A lot. We had a 16-lecture on compilers, which was ok, then another 16 on optimizing compilers
Both courses degenerated very quickly to nothing but maths.
 
Worst thing I ever learnt was that:

int i;
i = 16;

Compiled to

int i = 16;

Anyway.
Paving the way for a year of lazy programming under the firm belief that "Well...compiler will sort that shit out anyway"
 
@QAdley This is interesting, on a theoretical level. But with computer technology into 6th and 7th gen IDEs, it's also useless.
 
2:17 PM
@fbueckert Unless you're the one writing the compilers!
Or researching new ways to speed them up. This stuff has tremendous value.
 
@fbueckert A lot of owners of legacy systems pay lots of money for people to develop a middle language to convert between the two. So it's still very useful, even if the scope for usefulness is small
@QAdley YES, that was an unwelcome reminder
 
Worst thing I ever learnt was how to parse this kind of thing:

ξ?x.ζ!(x + 1).42 : int, {Rξ} ∪ {Wζ}
 
@QAdley At this point, I would assume that a base-level compiler has been picked over to the point that it's optimization is as good as it gets.
 
My professors had to convert a language from the 70's into Java using a mid level language (WHAT IS THE NAME FOR THIS MID LEVEL LANGUAGE ITS BUGGING ME?)
 
2:20 PM
@fbueckert Nope! There's loads of NP problems in compilers. If you can find a new heuristic for optimizing the output of such an algorithm, you can speed up compilers monumentally.
@GnomeSlicE Thanks, that's very cool!
 
INTERMEDIATE CODE. That's it. They had to convert 70's programming language to Intermediate code, then the intermediate code into Java.
 
@QAdley This makes me glad I deal with code and not OCDing into compiling.
 
@fbueckert E.g. assigning registers - this is complex, you have to do a load of analysis. The current algorithms are pretty good, but if you could come up with a better one you'd be able to speed up compilation and runtime alot, potentially.
@Wipqozn yes it was deliberate
@fbueckert Universities are where OCD goes to be exploited by society.
 
@QAdley They do regular, free bundles.
 
@GnomeSlicE Handy, I'll add it to my Design bookmarks!
 
2:24 PM
@QAdley I like theory as much as the next guy, but I like my work to have actual practical value. I like seeing my work in use too much for that.
And spending a year on a theoretical algorithm that MIGHT speed up a compiler is not my idea of time well spent.
 
@QAdley Might want to remove the referral bit of the link first.
 
@fbueckert Me too. But if your algorithms in everybody's compiler, that's a pretty big deal. I mean, Tony Hoare never built anything tangible, but his research is literally in everything.
@GnomeSlicE Meh
 
@QAdley Just that it might not work when they do their next bundle.
 
@GnomeSlicE Oh ok
(Note: Tony Hoare invented Quick Sort)
At 26, the bastard.
 
@QAdley And this is the first I've heard of him.
 
2:28 PM
@fbueckert I don't know how to put this, but he's kind of a big deal.
 
♥ bubble sort
 
@danRhul You deserve to die a painful death
 
@QAdley Why? Do I need about him to do my job? Is he someone that I must pray to, lest my code crashes?
 
@QAdley But it's so effecient
 
My point is, some people like theoretical programming more than practical programming, and that's fine. We're all one big happy family, and that's why programming has progressed as quickly as it has.
 
2:30 PM
@fbueckert Every time you, or any program you use, sorts anything, you're almost certainly using his algorithm. You don't have to pray to him or know who he is, but it's still interesting that one person can be so influential as to affect so much of what you do.
@danRhul O(vomit)
@fbueckert Yes
 
@danRhul Oh god I'm no longer incredibly appalled by my own version of the relevant exam
only mildly
 
@QAdp I have no idea what that is in reply to?
 
click on the gray arrow
 
Ah don't worry I figured it out :) thanks.
 
(we are given an educational compiler in C with a bunch of functions that generate assembly and such and we need to plug features in it. It wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for the features themselves, like "array rotation")
 
2:32 PM
@QAdp Oh dear.
My worst exam was Internet Services or something alike
 
(or the scoring system that gives you an automatic F if you get anything wrong)
 
I turnt up to the exam thinking that it was the next day. When in fact the next day's exam was something else. Got a cool 40 (the pass mark here)
 
Heres a sandboxy Kickstarter game with music by the excellent Robot Science (his music was in the Dustforce prototype): http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jmcmorris/crea
 
Nah, the exams I'm hating the most are the ones farthest away from my "field of study" - thermodynamics, statistics (sadly), ...
yeah, sure, part of what makes an engineer an engineer but...
 
One of my worst classes was "E-Commerce". It was essentially a FrontPage tutorial.
 
2:35 PM
I hated 3D programming in XNA.
 
@fbueckert Yeah, we had a similar course that was pretty terrible too. They at least taught CSS and HTML in the good part of the course, but the bad part was a series of messy diagrams for content organization made by the teacher (invented as part of her own thesis) and never actually followed by her
 
@QAdp I HATE messy diagrams. I like clean, neat diagrams. I'll spend several extra hours cleaning up diagrams I make. I've made a name for myself with them.
 
Today's listening: Robot Science
 
Robotics was pretty cool though. I got to build robots with grown up lego and program then. God I'm such a child
 
It's not as much they were messy because the lines overlapped too much or the boxes didn't align; it's more like the rules behind building those diagrams were messy, fuzzy
 
2:37 PM
@danRhul Mindstorms is the greatest thing ever.
If you want a kid to enjoy programming, you introduce him to that.
 
Being her own toy, she liked playing with it. That's good and all but doesn't help when you're being graded on it.
 
@fbueckert Yes, I still have a bunch of those. We had three sets in total, including the R2D2 starwars one.
 
@fbueckert Is that the Lego NXT stuff yeah? It was pretty cool. Lecturer introduced it to his son at the age of 7, by 8 he won a 1st place prize in dead reckoning
 
Nowadays, we have micro-controllers for our grown up tinkering. Complete with Visual Studio plugins!
@danRhul What's dead reckoning? A contest of some sort?
 
@fbueckert In short: you basically get given a course to navigate before the contest, with exact measurements of the course. You then have to program your robot to navigate that course, quite mathematical (have to calculate distance travelled by wheel radius etc, how many degrees you have turnt) and of course, running the same course on carpet against tile has a big effect so you have to account for all those variables
 
2:42 PM
@danRhul That sounds like a fun practical application.
Any algorithms invented to take that information into account will have real-world applications in any modern-day vehicle.
And future robots. Never forget our robotic overlords.
 
@fbueckert Also got to implement "behaviours" on robots. Like we did a remote control lego nxt robot, but it wouldn't crash into anything. Some guy even did a motherfucking RUBIX CUBE SOLVER
I believe someone even made a printer out of NXT gear
 
We studied the mathematics of AI. We built no robots :(
 
Rubix Cube solver is actually pretty simple.
1. Perform set of moves.
2. Check to see if all sides match.
3. Goto 1 until all sides match.
 
@fbueckert Of course, there's already an algorithm for it, but to program the colour recognition, turning the rubix cube and keeping track of the sides in memory. Pretty cool for a small project to be turnt in at the end of a term
It went far beyond the scope of what was required.
 
@danRhul Oh, certainly. It is still pretty cool. And going beyond the scope of what is required is what we geeks LIVE for.
"Because we can" is the motto.
 
2:48 PM
 
Heck, that's almost always the reason why I go above and beyond. "Yes, it does the job, but it can be BETTER"
 
@fbueckert We had to build Pong on an FPGA. The reqs were only for something very basic, but I think I managed to implement an AI for the opposition paddle, with variable difficulty, and rudimentary ball physics. That was fun.
Also such complex operations as drawing the score on screen instead of outputting it to 7seg displays
 
@QAdley I made a little physics gravity program in high school. No other reason than to tinker with rebound and show how gravity interacts with various objects.
 
Required manually creating bitmaps for the numbers in memory!
 
@QAdley Pretty cool.
 
2:50 PM
@danRhul I enjoyed our FPGA course. Sadly after Pong we progressed to writing MIPS assembly for the Game of Life
 
For my final year project I was asked to do the game Mancala. So what do I do. Develop some hybrid Monte Carlo Tree Search - Alpha Beta Pruning algorithm for the AI
 
@QAdley One of my friends implemented the game of life in SQL. That was amusing.
 
@fbueckert Entirely in SQL? wow.
 
@QAdley We did Game of Life. The novelty wore off VERY quickly. We did a side scrolling spaceship shooter game in first year.
 
@danRhul We did GoL again, and again, and again.
 
2:51 PM
@QAdley GoL?
 
@GnomeSlicE Yup, that. We wrote it in assembler.
 
@danRhul This was my introduction to Visual Basic. VERY basic graphics, but it worked. Except sometimes it would bug out and enemies would become invincible.
 
@QAdley ...Gonna go out on a limb and guess that you're joking.
 
Does anyone (maybe only British) remember the car advert where they had a chain of events initiated by one car part, and it used all the car parts to make the car move? Think it might have been Honda?
 
Did that on my own time between classes in high school; my high school didn't have much about programming at all.
 
2:53 PM
My GoL highlight was implementing an optimized Graphical version in Java, capable of millions of cells. We were given a map to download and run. It printed out a scrolling message that read CONGRATULATIONS
using glider factories.
 
@danRhul It was Honda I think.
 
@danRhul No, but it sounds cool.
 
@QAdley That's a fun twist on a basic GoL.
 
THAT'S IT ROMAN
 
2:54 PM
@danRhul It was for the Honda Mini Van
 
Here's a similar thing implemented in LEGO NXT:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWDcKF8Zzpw&feature=related
 
@danRhul I'm going to have to parse it as: That! It's Roman.
 
@fbueckert Yup
 
Oh! Look at that. Ronan already posted a link
 
Was a pretty cool advert.
 
2:56 PM
@danRhul Honda went through a period of producing great ads
Blurry GoL Porn:
 
@RonanForman I think I've got the sheet music for that somewhere
 
@QAdley What is 'GoL'?
 
@GnomeSlicE Game of Life
The Game of Life, also known simply as Life, is a cellular automaton devised by the British mathematician John Horton Conway in 1970. The "game" is a zero-player game, meaning that its evolution is determined by its initial state, requiring no further input. One interacts with the Game of Life by creating an initial configuration and observing how it evolves. Rules The universe of the Game of Life is an infinite two-dimensional orthogonal grid of square cells, each of which is in one of two possible states, alive or dead. Every cell interacts with its eight neighbours, which are the c...
 
@QAdley What, the Board Game?
Oh.
 
2:58 PM
@GnomeSlicE Cellular automaton
 
@QAdley No, no. Their advertising agency went through a period of producing great ads. ;)
Wieden+Kennedy (W+K; pronounced WHY-den and KEN-edy; earlier spelled Wieden & Kennedy) is an independently owned American advertising agency best known for its work for Nike. Founded by Dan Wieden and David Kennedy, and headquartered in Portland, Oregon, it is one of the largest independently-owned advertising agencies in the world. History Dan Wieden met David Kennedy in 1980, at the ad agency of McCann Erickson, while working on the Nike account. They took Nike with them as a client after founding "Wieden & Kennedy" on April 1, 1982, and remain the agency of record. Over the years, th...
 
@RESPAWN Fine, fine
 
@QAdley Is that anything like 'virtual evolution'?
 
@QAdley LOL. I love to be pendantic. :-P
 
@GnomeSlicE Not really. There are a few rules to determine which cells are alive or dead in the next state, that's it really.
 
3:01 PM
I took a minicourse on 'skepticism and pseudoscience' at Carleton University while I was in highschool, and the guy running the course had built a program he used to simulate evolution over many many generations in various situations.
 
@QAdley But to be quite honest, I work in the industry and admire their agency's work. They've done some great stuff
 
Which is what that video is from, actually.
 
Wasn't it like, if you had x amount of neighbors you stayed the same, if you had x-1 amount of neighbors you died (forever alone) and if you had x+1 neighbors then you bred, x+2 neighbors was you died of overcrowding.
 
@GnomeSlicE Interesting. GoL can be summed up by 'a cell is "born" if it has exactly 3 neighbours, stays alive if it has 2 or 3 living neighbours, and dies otherwise'
 
@QAdley Ah... wouldn't it just keep increasing indefinitely, then?
 
3:02 PM
My favourite thing is evolved cars. boxcar2d.com
 
@GnomeSlicE No, in fact Conway originally thought that wouldn't be possible
 
@QAdley Also, if you're interested, here's the project I was talking about: stellaralchemy.com/lee/virtual_creatures.php
 
@GnomeSlicE You can play around with it here (java applet) ibiblio.org/lifepatterns
 
@QAdley I'm guessing it depends on the initial setup, actually.
 
@QAdley It eventually digresses into squares
 
3:04 PM
@GnomeSlicE Yes, quite a lot :D
@RonanForman And oscillators!
 
The only problem with the 3D virtual creature evolution simulator is that it takes a shitload of computing power and time to run enough generations to get any kind of evolution.
 
@QAdley ? I wasn't talking about the GoL applet, it works fine.
 
@GnomeSlicE Yeh, I know, wasn't actually replying to that post
 
Also, did one of you link me to this? boxcar2d.com I have a tab open and I'm not sure how I get there.
It's cool though...
 
3:08 PM
@GnomeSlicE I did.
 
@RonanForman Ah, there we go.
 
@GnomeSlicE boxcar2D is awesome
 
Indeed it is. I think I've found a good distraction from work today.
 
@QAdley @RonanForman Seriously, you guys would like 3D VCE.
 
@GnomeSlicE Sparkle magic
 
3:11 PM
@QAdley So, IS it possible to make it reproduce indefinitely?
 
@GnomeSlicE No, that doesn't reproduce. It just oscillates.
 
@GnomeSlicE No, there's always going to be 12 cells.
 
@QAdley Not that image, I meant the GoL in general.
You said he originally thought it wouldn't be possible.
 
@GnomeSlicE Yes, it is possible. Try wikipedia :-P
 
Oh absolutely. Are you using Golly as your simulator?
It should come with several interesting examples
Look for factories
 
3:15 PM
Also, for you guys who like Boxcar, I highly recommend Fantastic Contraption and Fantastic Contraption 2.
 
0
Q: Ibuki Yoroitoshi help

Arnoi'm learning ibuki on Street fighter IV:AE and a book said that I needed to do the trails, so I did, but i'm stuck on level 5, I need to do a Yoroitoshi the commands are: But it doesn't seem to work, I get the grap and then blue lazer's, and then I do a punch tree times, what am i doing wrong...

 
3:41 PM
Jesus Christ, Source Filmmaker is 10 GB?
Wow, fuck that.
 
I wonder what all the size is
 
@GnomeSlicE sorry about the delay... I made a minor mistake on the coin while making the ridges and it sorta spiraled outta control with me trying to hotfix it. Here is the coin looks like and here are the files.
 
@QAzer All I wanted was a bump map for the heart, but thanks I guess.
 
@GnomeSlicE xD
 
@QAzer It looks like a chocolate coin
 
3:42 PM
@QAzer I think it's more yours than it is mine now.
@QAzer What was I doing wrong with the bump map for the heart image?
 
@GnomeSlicE bump maps should be black and white only with no alpha
 
@QAzer The light seems as if its coming from south east, but shadow is facing west?
 
@QAzer It was.
The problem was that it was tiling, and not fitting at the correct size.
 
@danRhul I had two lights... only one casts a shadow for testing ambient occlusion... forgot to turn that one off :p
 
0
Q: Miranda's fate in Mass Effect 3 (Gibbed Save Editor)

byarruI've missed the last meeting with Miranda and now she dies every time I go to the Sanctuary. Does naybody knows what should I change with Gibbed Save Editor to save her? I didn't romance her. My female Shepard couldn't even if she wanted XD

 
3:47 PM
@GnomeSlicE when I opened up Heart Bump Map.png I could see the alpha: i.imgur.com/8JK9n.png
 
@Lazers Should we even answer this?
 
@QAzer Oh, whoops... I thought it was all white.
@QAzer Well, good job anyway.
 
@GnomeSlicE If you want a smoother bump, I suggest using a gradient and using PS instead of AI
 
@QAzer My problem was that it was tiling, and I couldn't resize it.
 
7
Q: What is a good (non legendary) crafting item to invest in?

ayckosterSo basically I have a ton (400+) of Inferno Essences, because I salvage every iLvl 61+ item with less than 1000 gold vendor price in hope for a Fiery Essence. Now I want to "invest" those crafting materials in items. I know I have to buy a recipe eventually, but which one? My goal is to either g...

This needs some more close votes.
 
3:51 PM
@GnomeSlicE you set the bump map type as bitmap right?
 
@QAzer Yes.
@QAzer I gave you the file, and you said you'd fix the bump map, did you not look at it?
Or did you just start again from scratch.
 
@GnomeSlicE yeah I thought you wanted me to fix your uv mapping as well
 
@QAzer The uv mapping was what was messing up the bump map, no?
I see you also made the coin a lot thinner.
 
@GnomeSlicE because the uv map didn't know what kind of object it was it couldn't map it correctly so naturally the bump map couldn't be applied correctly
 
@QAzer What kind of object what was?
 
3:55 PM
@GnomeSlicE I think it was shrink wrapped like a plastic wrap on a cylinder-like coin object
 
@QAzer That's how I set it I believe.
 
@GnomeSlicE i don't think it recognized the coin object as a cylinder but thought it was a flat plane
 
@QAzer I tried a bunch of different things. What did you use to get the heart bump map correct?
 
What I did was select each face with poly select and set it as it's own material id and made 3 different uv maps for them
@GnomeSlicE I used the alpha of the bump map as a mask
 
@QAzer And to resize it?
 
user2334
3:59 PM
awww, we can't base a chatroom around asking a/s/l. That's it, shut the Bridge down
 

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