The Bridge

2:00 AM

@John "that Georg guy"... do you not know who George Takei is?

@James Well, we already started sunken island, and it's not really that different from one of Vechs, really. We're hunting for random stuff hidden behind creeper spawners.

Mana

@tzenes Upgrade your hardware/CLOUD COMPUTING LOL?

James

@John But there should be 'signs' to give us 'story' :D

tzenes

@Mana builds for work

Wipqozn

@John I assume you mean this image?

John

2:01 AM

@Wipqozn Yeah.

@Wipqozn Also yeah.

James

I am all for going forward with sunken island, it is neat and DAMN hectic :)

Ive died what, 3 times?

Wipqozn

@John Hint: The one in the top left is "The Simpsons"

John

@Wipqozn I think those are the TMNT in the upper right, but I don't understand the others.

@James Something like that, yeah.

Wipqozn

@John For shame sir. George Takei is, in a word, awesome.

John

@James Heheh, sure, we can do that. :)

James

2:02 AM

Second left is south park

tzenes

what is bottom right?

Wipqozn

Like, seriously. HE's more awesome than I am, and I'm pretty awesome.

StrixVaria

gaming.stackexchange.com/privileges/vote-down

John

@Wipqozn I think I've seen him somewhere....like for 2 seconds in a passing role on a sitcom or something...

StrixVaria

Very interesting about how rare downvotes should be.

Tim Stone

2:02 AM

@tzenes Lucky Luke, we were all stumped on that one.

StrixVaria

> Downvoting should be reserved for extreme cases. It's not meant as a substitute for communication and editing.

tzenes

simpsons, turtles, south park, smurfs, ???, bert and ernie, donald duck and his cousins, ???

StrixVaria

I wholly disagree.

John

@James Oooh so they're all cartoons I don't watch. :P

Wipqozn

Lucky Luke

Lucky Luke is a Franco-Belgian comics series created by Belgian cartoonist Maurice De Bevere, better known as Morris, and for one period written by René Goscinny. Set in the American Old West, it stars the titular character, Lucky Luke, the cowboy known to "shoot faster than his shadow". Along with The Adventures of Tintin and Asterix, Lucky Luke is one of the most popular and best-selling comic-book series in continental Europe. About half of the series' adventures have been translated into English. Lucky Luke comics have been translated into 23 languages, including many European l...

StrixVaria

2:03 AM

@tzenes This is what everyone gets because the other 2 are stupid.

James

@John Possible, I just recognize cartman and kenny :)

Ktash

@tzenes Donald duck and his nephews * ;)

tzenes

is the other one asterix?

Yeah

interesting

2:04 AM

I keep misreading "HAWX 2" as "HAX 2"

James

Oooh, Second level Right == Smurfs?

LessPop_MoreFizz

youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=MrNA7RjU91I

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

Wipqozn

@StrixVaria They are really well known over in the euros apparently.

James

@John Reset the map or continue from where we are then?

John

2:04 AM

@LessPop_MoreFizz That video has 6 times the likes that it has views.

@James Continue, I'd say.

James

Sounds good, Hopping in.. remember the info?

Ktash

Relevant to our interests joystiq.com/2012/03/28/amazon-holding-buy-two-get-one-free-sale

Wipqozn

@John There is a video that explains that.

John

@James Checks other chat room Yep! :P

Raven Dreamer

@tzenes Good that you specified. I was about to crack a "we require more vespene gas" joke. :)

John

2:05 AM

@Wipqozn Link?

Raven Dreamer

@Mana I had the weirdest dream last night.

Wipqozn

►

Mana

@RavenDreamer Cool, did I die?

Raven Dreamer

@Mana You didn't show up.

this time.

It was about the 4 kids from homestuck who were stuck in a combination puzzle / dungeon crawler iOS game.

Instead of the homestuck classes, they each gained powers from a vinyl record they carried

which, when activated, changed their art style and gave them awesome powers.

The only one I remember was Dave, who had Barbie Girl, by Aqua.

And then something about a spider mini-boss with hookshots.

Mana

@RavenDreamer ...wat

James

2:08 AM

@John Im in :)

LessPop_MoreFizz

NEWS TEAM ASSEMBLEEEEEEEE

Raven Dreamer

@Mana He rocked it, in a highly ironic way.

tzenes

@RavenDreamer yeah, let me just tell Amazon that I need more Drones

John

@James I would be, by now, but I borked a version number.

Wipqozn

@LessPop_MoreFizz Excellent.

Wait a minute there good sir!

James

2:10 AM

@John No worries I am cowering in a corner.. effing creepers

Wipqozn

> You should only ask practical, answerable questions based on actual problems that you face.

14 mins ago, by Raven Dreamer

I knew the answer to that. I asked it for the reps.

18

Q: What is Steam? DRM?

What exactly is Steam? Isn't it DRM? What can I do with it?

steam

close close close!

Raven Dreamer

@Wipqozn Seed questions, ya fool!

Wipqozn

Let's do this for science. Let's see if closing your first question drives you away from the site.

4

Raven Dreamer

@Mana Goodguy Mana. Always asks about others. Never complains when no one asks about him.

Wipqozn

I'm sure this has been shared in her ebefore:

►

Mana

2:17 AM

@RavenDreamer That's because I'm more interested in the well-being of the people I like in this chat than I am in sharing the details of my own well-being

OrigamiRobot

@Mana Message received.

Mana

@OrigamiRobot How are you btw?

Wipqozn

How are YOU @mana?

OrigamiRobot

@Mana Robotic :P

Mana

@Wipqozn working on Android stuff, leave me alone

continues tinkering with OrigamiRobot's wiring...

Wipqozn

2:19 AM

@Mana I'm going to go cry now.

OrigamiRobot

@Mana Oh yea, right there...

Mana

@Wipqozn Make sure you save your tears, I want to drink them.

4

also they're pretty effective at killing things, I hear.

Wipqozn

@Mana I like this new you. It reminds me of me.

NSFW: This woman's hilarious

OrigamiRobot

Boston Dynamics is amazing

Ian Pugsley

@Wipqozn NSFL - Jenna Marbles is awful and the worst

2

OrigamiRobot

2:26 AM

@IanPugsley A million times this.

Wipqozn

@IanPugsley I assume that's the woman in the video. I've never actually seen any of her videos before.

OrigamiRobot

@Wipqozn I renounce my love for you, creator.

Mana

@IanPugsley Apologies @Wipqozn, but Ian's absolutely right.

Tristan

@IanPugsley She's still hot, though.

OrigamiRobot

@Tristan Not at all.

Tristan

2:29 AM

@OrigamiRobot Bah!

StrixVaria

@OrigamiRobot youtube.com/watch?v=6m6MvXMHQfA

Wipqozn

:(

All the respect I've earned... gone...

OrigamiRobot

@StrixVaria Boring.

StrixVaria

@OrigamiRobot He puts the puns out more than 1 every 2 seconds.

I was pretty much required to link it to you.

OrigamiRobot

@StrixVaria Those puns were poor.

StrixVaria

2:32 AM

@OrigamiRobot I'm going to keep linking you to things with lame puns to get you to understand.

OrigamiRobot

@StrixVaria Understand what? I never said every pun was good.

Tristan

lol Guy and girl going on a date. Guy gets in car. Girl says "I don't date guys who don't open the door for me." Guy stares at her briefly before driving off without her.

Wipqozn

@Tristan loololololololol

OrigamiRobot

Unless I did...

Tristan

@Wipqozn What respect?

Wipqozn

2:34 AM

@Tristan The guy driving off. That's awesome.

I wish I could high-five him.

That's pretty much exactly what I would have done in that situation.

tzenes

Is there a way I can get replies sent to me via email?

OrigamiRobot

@Wipqozn You mean high-one?

Wipqozn

Although I'd probably make a bad joke before driving off.

Tristan

@Wipqozn Oh yeah. I meant the respect you lost. lol But yeah, I'd do the same thing.

Wipqozn

@Tristan Oh, now I get it.

you're so funny @Tristan! LOL!

goes to bed

user15026

2:39 AM

Hey

Tristan

@AshleyNunn Hullo

EBongo

@Wipqozn The look at 1:40 is hilarious.

user15026

@Tristan I am finally getting caught up on DrawSomething. I feel so bad because I have been behind for daaaays

user2334

@tzenes Let me put it another way. The probability of any individual month having a dead <200 user with closed questions inside of 1 SD (23.4 ± 16.9, sorry had the numbers wrong in my previous message) is ~83% (via CDF). The months that did better than random chance (i.e. were statistically significant) were 7/2010 (lower than expected), 8/2010 (lower), and 11/2011–3/2012 (higher). You don't believe the last 3 months are accurate, so consider only Nov/Dec 2011. 2 months does not a trend make.

Tristan

@AshleyNunn No worries. I have like twelve games going...

user2334

2:47 AM

@tzenes And Nov and Dec 2011 are easily explainable: Skyrim. But this is all ancillary to the fact that these dead users with closed questions only count for a few percentage points of all our dead users. We should be worrying about them, not a very small subset.

user15026

@Tristan :) Yeah, I have a bunch as well :)

Ben Brocka

@MarkTrapp Great, now we're killing low rep users? Maybe we are going a bit too far now.

user2334

@BenBrocka What about alive, but only ironically?

Ben Brocka

Hipster zombies? That's even worse

user2334

They were active users before it became too mainstream

Ben Brocka

2:52 AM

Honestly I think this whole problem is likely to not exist and is basically the same freakout everyone has when they first learn a site's bounce rate/retention rate

tzenes

@MarkTrapp that's assuming that there isn't a trend

Ben Brocka

It always seems impossibly bad until you realize that's just how stuff works in online/offline communities

user2334

@BenBrocka Having seen the same freakout on Programmers, BH, and Christianity, I'm inclined to agree.

tzenes

if there were a slow moving trend (over many months) that invalidates your std

EBongo

@agent86 With regard to my capture card, I agree - compression all the way. I found that despite my rigs awesomeness, I could not in actually capture at 1080p rates because my HDD is not fast enough. Forget space... speed. That's not a spec I considered very much when buying. Oops.

tzenes

2:53 AM

what you should be doing is evaluating the correlation with a trend line

Fredy31

I think those statistics miss something. Are our new users used to the system (active members of other sites) or are they just coming and asking for a contest?

tzenes

using a least squares

EBongo

@BenBrocka I added you in games center.

tzenes

as I mentioned earlier your approach treats the following ordered datasets identically: {1, 1, 1, 1000, 1000, 1000} and {1, 1000, 1, 1000, 1, 1000}

obviously that's not ideal

user2334

@tzenes That's begging the question, though. The data indicate that there isn't a noticeable trend: most months are close to the average.

user2334

2:55 AM

@tzenes Yes, because the sample size is way too small. You can't create a trend from 6 data points.

tzenes

no, that's how you calculate statistical significance for time series data

@MarkTrapp you can imagine those ordered sets repeating off into infinity

Raven Dreamer

@Mana I had an interview with an android place yesterday!

tzenes

the problem is you're treating time series data the same as solving for a bias'd coin

user2334

@tzenes I can imagine a lot of things, but there's no data to support it. At this point, I've exhausted every method I have to try to convince you your methodology is flawed: I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

tzenes

certainly we can do that, if you prefer

user2334

2:57 AM

I can't argue to the contrary when you assume what you're trying to assert.

user15026

@RavenDreamer Very cool. :) Hope it went awesome :)

Mana

@RavenDreamer Coooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

Sterno

Maybe you guys should post this on Mathematics.SE.

tzenes

I've provided a counter example which you cannot explain

Raven Dreamer

@Mana They asked me to write a method to return the number of ' ' in a string.

tzenes

2:57 AM

it has nothing to do with assumptions

Raven Dreamer

After I did so

tzenes

it's clear you just don't have the statistical background to understand the data

Raven Dreamer

The interviewer complained about the worst interviewee ever, who got halfway through, then proclaimed, "I'd google it", and claimed he had solved the problem.

user2334

@tzenes What counter? Your 6 point data set? That's exactly what I'm saying: you can't create a trend from that.

Raven Dreamer

@AshleyNunn <3

tzenes

2:59 AM

@MarkTrapp as I mentioned before you could imagine it drawn out to any number of points with the same problem

Ben Brocka

@EBongo ACCEPTABLE

2

tzenes

I used six because i'm limited in what I can put in this input box

Ben Brocka

►

user15026

@RavenDreamer Oh, ouch. :S

Raven Dreamer

@BenBrocka Goshdarnit. I read that in Lemongrab's voice, and I don't even watch Adventuretime.

agent86

3:00 AM

@EBongo too much chatting, not enough gaming.

tzenes

{1, 1000, 1, 1000, 1, 1000....} and {....1, 1, 1, 1000, 1000, 1000, ....}

agent86

@EBongo, I saved all the hostages

StrixVaria

@BenBrocka I need to watch this show based only on this 2-second clip.

agent86

I think I've run that mission twice now without losing one

tzenes

one is an ossilating data set where as the other has a discrete point

Ben Brocka

3:01 AM

@RavenDreamer same here. Youtube has made me love it though. Which is why copyright madness is stupid...never would have found Invader Zim without YT vids of Gir

I had a sammich in mah head

tzenes

the correct way to solve this is to do a least squares against a trend line to evaluate correlation

if you think there is no trend then there will be low correlation or the trendline will be flat

user2334

@tzenes If the sample was drawn out to infinity (i.e., {1, 1, 1, 1000, 1000, 1000, …}) the average would be approaching 1000. You're not demonstrating a trend. And your third example {…, 1, 1, 1, 1000, 1000, 1000, …} has absolutely relevance to the problem. The whole point is that you're attempting to predict the future. Stretching out to infinity in the other direction is asinine

Sterno

You guys are nerding up chat.

Geeks only in here

tzenes

@MarkTrapp predicting?

I think you misunderstand what I am saying

imagine a theorhetical set (no prediction)

{…, 1, 1, 1, 1000, 1000, 1000, …} and {1, 1000, 1, 1000, 1, 1000....} and let's bring them out to 10 million point samples

user2334

@tzenes Neither are relevant here.

tzenes

3:04 AM

now perform the same analysis you did previously

very relevant if you wait a sec

the methodology of taking the mean and std to analyse statistical accuracy would show that neither of these sets has statistically accurate data opints

StrixVaria

@agent numbers I finally got that Chocobo's Dungeon game.

tzenes

however, because these are ordered sets (not random), we can see there is a discrete event

agent86

@StrixVaria and now you are <3'ing it, yes?

StrixVaria

When you said roguelike, I thought you meant something inspired by roguelikes.

tzenes

thus your methodology does not handled ordered sets

StrixVaria

3:06 AM

But I was pleasantly surprised to see it is a full-on roguelike.

agent86

@StrixVaria yesssssss

StrixVaria

I'm not very far in it yet (maybe 3-4 dungeons), but it's really good so far.

agent86

give in to your chocobo-based roguelike urges

MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA

StrixVaria

I'm not exactly sure what the strategy for the boss fights is except "hope you have enough potions to tank it", but other than that I'm really enjoying it.

user2334

@tzenes You've been trying to make the case that the current set of policies are making it increasingly difficult for newbies to stick around. That's a forward prediction: if we do nothing, fewer and fewer new users will stick around. If that were true, we'd see a trend indicating every subsequent month is well outside the norm. We don't see that: for one, we don't have nearly enough data to support that.

tzenes

3:07 AM

@MarkTrapp actually that's not true

we could see small changes every month that were individually inside the norm

but over long periods of time we could see large changes

agent86

@StrixVaria I don't really remember specific bits of it anymore, since I played it so long ago. I just remember coming away from it feeling pretty good, although I wished it was longer

user2334

@tzenes For two, the months that are well outside the norm are explainable by the ridiculously popular contests we have. So, given an absence of any supporting data to indicate your hypothesis is correct (closures are affecting new user retention), the logical thing to do is to reject it

Mana

@agent86 Oh my god, Chocobo's Dungeon. I love that game.

StrixVaria

@Mana Expect a few questions in the next few days.

tzenes

@Mark your basing your logic upon something that is not true, thus you come to the wrong answer

agent86

3:08 AM

@Mana we're discussing the one for wii, which I convinced strix to pick up

Mana

I haven't played it since I was like...12...?

Oh.

OrigamiRobot

1 hour ago, by OrigamiRobot

►

user2334

@tzenes which we don't have ಠ_ಠ We have 21 months. 16 of which are close to the average.

tzenes

21 months is a fairly long period of time

the problem is your keep treating the dataset as if it is unordered

StrixVaria

@OrigamiRobot I just found this and I can't stop laughing at this character.

agent86

3:09 AM

@Mana I think they re-released the PS1 one on PSN, but only in japan

Lazers

0

Q: Skyrim: Can't see things underwater

Ok so since the 1.5 patch I'm not able to see things in water at all. http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/4839/screenshot6wgg.png I didn't have this problem at all before. How to solve this visibility?

skyrim

0

Q: my follower died and her dead body follows me instead

My follower from the companions unfortunately died while on a quest. For some reason whenever I walk through a door or fast travel her dead body follows me. I can't search her body to get my dragonplate armour set back and my new housecarl (or anyone else) will follow me because I apparently alre...

skyrim ps3

agent86

DAMN YOU JAPAN!

OrigamiRobot

@StrixVaria oooooooooooooooooooooooone million year dungeon!

Ben Brocka

@StrixVaria I'm watching it too

12 years dungeon

tzenes

if you treated it as an ordered data set you'd see that it has a stronger correlation to a positive growth

Ben Brocka

3:10 AM

all of you

no trial

StrixVaria

Where can I catch up on this show?

Ahahahahahahahahaha

OrigamiRobot

@StrixVaria Unsavory sites...

StrixVaria

@OrigamiRobot :(

OrigamiRobot

It's also on Cartoon Network all the time.

StrixVaria

@OrigamiRobot I now have to figure out what channel that is here.

OrigamiRobot

3:13 AM

►

user2334

@tzenes Let me take a different tactic. Forget statistical significance, we're getting nowhere on this. Compare the number of dead <200 rep users with closed questions in a month to the number of dead <200 rep users without closed questions in a month. On average, the number of dead <200 rep users with closed questions accounts for <5% of all the dead <200 rep users. If closures were one of the main reasons why new users don't stay, presumably that'd be a whole lot higher.

tzenes

No one said it was one of the main reasons

StrixVaria

I have to sleep.

tzenes

it is merely a reason

StrixVaria

I want to keep finding adventure time videos, but there needs to be an end.

Good night!

tzenes

3:15 AM

more importantly, it's a reason we can act on

Let me try another way, does this data set have a trend?{6,8,10,10,10,11,13,13,14,15,18,18,20,23,27,31,31,45,46,61,63}

user2334

@tzenes You're driving me to drink. The whole point of the meta discussion was that there is a major problem with driving new users away closures and draconian rules, and your post attempted to correlate closures with new users not gaining rep. But that's not the case: it only accounts for 5% of new users not gaining rep.

tzenes

I never said it was a major problem

nor do I think it is one

I think only that it is a problem we can act on

agent86

wanders in and sees discussion and nonchalantly wanders back out again

tzenes

does the data set have a trend?

Tristan

Silly contest promoters... Choosing to sleep when they should be posting the winners.

2

user2334

3:18 AM

@tzenes We can, but we shouldn't. Changing policies and guidelines that have worked for the vast majority of users, and clearly don't affect the vast majority of people who choose to give up on Gaming, is nonsensical and is not supported by any of the evidence you've provided.

Sterno

I'm still waiting for the Matt Damon character to stroll into chat, look at the blackboard, and solve the equation for you guys

tzenes

@MarkTrapp you're assuming we'd have to change in such away that would harm most users

there is no reason to think that

providing better education about game-rec and IDG would reduce the problem without effecting other users

having close reasons: IDG and Game-Rec would similarly beneficial

Raven Dreamer

@agent86 Sounds about right.

user2334

@tzenes Having to go through the rigamarole of changing guidelines or practices for what amounts to a rounding error in the number of people it might possibly help (which you have no evidence to show that it will) is a waste of everyone's time.

user2334

It harms the site by taking attention from other matters.

tzenes

3:20 AM

@MarkTrapp if you don't want to spend your time you don't have to. I think it has value, and I think I've demonstrated that value

I can't think of any way I could spend my time on the site which could increase the active population by even 1%

so if I can come up with a simple way to get 2%, I'd call that a win

agent86

I have a pretty nice set of pro-forma comments for all the "FAQ prohibited" question types, which I use whenever I MOD POWER a FAQ prohibited question closed.

user2334

@tzenes But you haven't. You've shown that a small number of people are possibly not gaining rep due to closures, but you haven't shown that doing anything will get those people back.

tzenes

@MarkTrapp not yet

agent86

I shared them earlier today, and if we have a discussion around making the close process more friendly I'd post it there for posterity.

tzenes

I've shown value exists, not that I can bring it

user2334

3:23 AM

@tzenes No you haven't: you've shown that there are ~60 or so people a month that stop gaining rep and also have a closure on the books that you can see. There is nothing to suggest that the closure is in any way the reason why those people left. Given that 95% of the people who stop gaining rep don't have a closure on the books, it's far more likely our closure policies have nothing to do with it.

tzenes

you're right, correlation doesn't prove causation

but given it's effect on Ren, it's a place to start

we'll try something and if it drives the metric down, then best on us

if not, we'll try something else

even the idea of education is purely theorhetical

there is no evidence to suggest that better education would be effective

but seeing as I"m not spending my time answering questions, I might as well spend it trying to think up ways to solve this problem

user2334

@tzenes Without a demonstrable chain of causality, you would not be a position to claim that your changes were the reason the numbers changed (if they did). Given how small the sample is, any changes wouldn't tell you anything.

tzenes

@MarkTrapp your arguments on sample size are demonstrably wrong, so ignoring that, yes causality is a fickle beast, but as long as much changes don't make things worse, what do you care?

user2334

And you haven't demonstrated that having those 60 people back would be a net win for the site.

tzenes

We have evidence that more active participants does make the site better, but this is a self selecting population so it's not guaranteed to be the same

however, I believe providing a good user experience is always a positive goal

Tristan

3:27 AM

I'm so lost...

user2334

@tzenes Because changes to accommodate the small set of people who can't handle a closure and take their ball and go home do make things worse. They make it harder to deal with low quality because people bend over backwards for a very small fraction of people with questionable contributions to the site and have demonstrably shown they aren't team players.

tzenes

I'm not willing to give up on these people just because you are

@MarkTrapp you have 0 evidence to that effect

you yourself stubbornly refused to admit your flawed statistics. That doesn't make you a bad user

or a bad person

user2334

@tzenes Sure I do: assume the strong correlation you've claimed that closure = dead user. These people have decided to leave after getting their question closed. Real mature.

tzenes

or "not a team player"

@MarkTrapp closure doesn't demonstrate bad user

user15026

@Tristan Me too.

tzenes

3:29 AM

some of the people with the most closed questions are heavy participants on the site

user2334

@tzenes Which is contrary to your theory that closure policies have a negative effect on retention.

tzenes

not really

it's not 100% either way

and it's a negative effect on retention not reputation

a users who participates a lot is more likely to ask closed questions just because they ask more questions

#questions correlates to closed questions as well

nobody's perfect after all

user2334

@tzenes And most people recognize that and stick around after a closure because they're willing to contribute and provide something useful to the site. There's a subset of people who can't or won't and leave before getting 200 rep. And of that subset, there's a very, very small subset of people who leave and also have a question closed.

Tristan

@AshleyNunn DrawSomething and DragonVale have caused me to pretty much ignore Tiny Tower...

user15026

@Tristan Haha it happens :)

user2334

3:34 AM

Presented with both populations (people who stay and people who leave) having a small fraction of people with closed questions, it makes no sense to argue that there's something that we can change the policies in a way that improves retention. It's wishful thinking.

tzenes

@MarkTrapp is that true or do you just assume?

user2334

@tzenes Assume what? The data's there: 5% of dead users have closed questions.

user15026

@Tristan DragonVale is pretty awesome :)

tzenes

you're making an implicit assumption that their unwillingness to contribute provides an indicator of negative value

I run a much larger website that gaming.stackexchange, and I can tell you people who have a bad experience tend not to come back, However, when we do studies where we drag them back (through promotions or focus groups) they can go on to be productive members

first impresesions may be hard to shake, but they do have a strong effect

Lazers

0

Q: What is fuel cost?

I just got my ship in SW: The Old Republic and I noticed that space missions have a fuel cost associated with them. What does it actually mean? Do I need to buy fuel periodically? Where can I see how much fuel I have?

swtor

user2334

3:37 AM

@tzenes It's not an assumption, it's true simpliciter. If you're not contributing, you have no demonstrable value to the site.

tzenes

@MarkTrapp perhaps I should have said "potential value?" I sort of thought that was obvious since that's what we've been talking about

user15026

Oh, Kongregate.....

tzenes

I don't really see what your goal is here, I think you're just sort of arguing because you don't want to admit defeat. I mean, clearly you're not going to influence me or vice versa. And you've already said that you want to agree to disagree

Tristan

@AshleyNunn Heck yeah it is!

user2334

3:39 AM

@tzenes I'm sorry, if we're going to talk about woo like potential value, I'm done here. You can't attempt to support a belief that people might possibly be good even though they've done nothing to demonstrate it by appealing to statistics.

tzenes

I'm sorry that you think statistics aren't convincing. I find not-statistics to be unconvincing, but that's probably because I do a lot of statistics

it's sort of the basis for modern science...

user15026

@Tristan Only thing is I hate waiting for dragons to breed :( I am impatient! I want baby dragons RIGHT NOW

Tristan

@AshleyNunn And then after waiting x hours for them to breed, you have to wait another x hours for the egg to hatch!

user15026

@Tristan Its the worst! But getting awesome dragons is so worth it though

Tristan

@AshleyNunn Agreed. I got a moss dragon today!

user2334

3:44 AM

@tzenes I really can't tell if you're being obtuse to try and troll me because you're upset or if you really believe you've provided a rock solid case that the interpretation you've provided demonstrably shows getting back 60 people who've done nothing to earn the level of bending-over-backwards you're suggesting we do. If it's the latter, I'm fairly convinced the Dunning Kruger effect is in play. Either way, we're done.

user15026

@Tristan Very cool :) I don't know what I got today - I am saving up to make a cold habitat so I can hatch my cold egg and put it there, and hten I can hatch whatever I just bred. :)\

tzenes

@MarkTrapp strange since I have said the same about you

but then, you've said you were done before and been unwilling to leave

Tristan

@AshleyNunn My cold habitat and cold dragon should be done in a few hours. =3

user15026

@Tristan Nifty :)

user15026

I love that people are playing this game. It makes me happy to finally have people playing some of the random iOS stuff I play :)

tzenes

3:45 AM

I don't think we have to bend over backwards, we're talking about a fairly minute effort of work

but your proleclivity for exaggeration has not escaped my notice

Tristan

@MarkTrapp @tzenes I'm all for free debate outside of meta, but if you two are going to treat each other in such a condescending manner, I'd prefer you did it in another room...

user15026

@Tristan This.

tzenes

@Tristan I think that's a little unfair

we've been discussing this for hours

user2334

@Tristan I agree, this got out of hand. Shutting up

Tristan

@tzenes Discussing, yes. Peacefully, in fact. Until recently.

tzenes

3:48 AM

@Tristan it waxes and wanes

Tristan

@MarkTrapp You don't have to shut up. You're both huge supporters of content on this site, and both of your opinions and concerns are valid. I just feel the animosity got a bit strong.

tzenes

I try not to take people's tones personally on the internet, there is too much room left for interpretation

user2334

@Tristan I mean about this: we should've stopped a while ago when we circled back the first two or three times. Naming calling when neither of us can convince the other we're right is dumb.

Tristan

@tzenes I meant no offense. I just don't like seeing arguments get this heated amongst site veterans. It's be like Mana and RavenDreamer arguing about which of them likes MSPaint Adventures more. lol

tzenes

now that might be an interesting topic

they could regale us with their favorite memories

or times won and lost

Tristan

3:52 AM

Personally, I think they all suck. (MSPaint Adventures, not Mana and Raven)

tzenes

I've never played, so I dont' know what that is

I do have time while this code builds

Tristan

@tzenes It's a web comic.

tzenes

ah

I thought it was a game

user2334

@tzenes I apologize for calling into question your competence: obviously there's a fundamental disagreement that we're not going to resolve, and throwing jabs back and forth doesn't do anything to fix that.

tzenes

like I said, I don't take it personally, so there is no need for you to apologize

James

3:54 AM

@BenBrocka Helllp! I cant send gems to -anyone-!

tzenes

and likewise I've ment nothing personal by it

I don't think you're a bad person for any of what we've discussed

Tristan

@James Has it been 24 hours since last time?

James

Its been 48