/dev/chat

1:10 PM

argv!

Jenny D

1:53 PM

argc!

Bingo!

2:21 PM

A̹̖̙̰̭ͅR̩͙̻̖̀G̞͉̖̯̟̳̖͜V̶!

2:34 PM

Too many arguments.

@Kusalananda Ạ͞R͝Ǵ̼̦͚͍̦C?̼̪̫͇͎

Z͚̣A̻̝̻͖̝͈̜͝L̬͕̣̭G̣̳̺̹̯͍V̠̺́?̘̗͎͖̹̟?

Exec format error?

A: RegEx match open tags except XHTML self-contained tags

Heh, every now and then I go and reread the zalgo regex answer:

4426

You can't parse [X]HTML with regex. Because HTML can't be parsed by regex. Regex is not a tool that can be used to correctly parse HTML. As I have answered in HTML-and-regex questions here so many times before, the use of regex will not allow you to consume HTML. Regular expressions are a tool th...

:-) I was thinking of exactly that one.

A: Regular expression pattern not matching anywhere in string

And then I go and try (again) and fail (again) to sit down and actually understand all of Tom's great answer here:

628

Oh Yes You Can Use Regexes to Parse HTML! For the task you are attempting, regexes are perfectly fine! It is true that most people underestimate the difficulty of parsing HTML with regular expressions and therefore do so poorly. But this is not some fundamental flaw related to computational th...

2:44 PM

Neat.

Um, that's "Neat." with a full stop at the end, signalling an "ok." blended with a feeling of "right.".

I think I'll just leave the magic to the wizards.

Yeah. I like to go and read that whenever I start feeling I know anything about regexes.

Then convert that Perl script into a Bash script...

shudders

3:03 PM

@Kusalananda If that is the tchrist I'm thinking of, he also knows an improbable amount about Middle Earth.

Heh, that he does.

i know at least two others who know as much or more than tchrist

my current girlfriend is an avid fan of all the books of Middle Earth

so's my dad.

I'm halfway through the silmarillion myself already :p

@ThomasWard Ah, but can they combine that with a deep knowledge of linguistics in general and the English language in particular?

@ThomasWard So, a Dream Girl, basically?

And being halfway through the Silmarillion does not an expert make! Hell, I've read the damn thing at least five or six times, probably more, and don't consider myself an expert. I used to, mind, but it's been a while.

3:15 PM

@terdon my dad can, yes, if only because he's a lawyer and perfect English/linguistics are necessary in contracts. As for my friend, yes she can, but she can do so in Japanese as well.

Tchrist seems like quite a character. I've chatted with him occasionally - on ELL, I think.

ELU, probably

Right, I always type ELL when I mean ELU.

Me too, it's really annoying. Especially when I do so on meta posts about ELU and ELL.

It's hard work knowing stuff about languages. They're such complex and irrational beasts.

@ThomasWard: "Diamond-Powered Envoy of the Eternal Darkness" sounds like something Michael Moorcock might have come up with.

Someone just pointed me to a script for creating a deb - github.com/xournalpp/xournalpp/blob/legacy/build_release.sh

Is this really a substitute for deb packaging? It doesn't look like it to me.

3:22 PM

@FaheemMitha depends what you need the deb for

it's just a wrapper around checkinstall

@StephenKitt How does checkinstall do at making debs?

@FaheemMitha For policy-compliant packaging? No.

Check install is just going to make a "package" that works with source code to install locally

it isn't actually a correctly-formatted package

@FaheemMitha yeah it's just a tarball wrapped in a deb effectively, with whatever metadata you give it

basically it helps the make install / make uninstall approach to package management

so if you just want a deb for that it's OK

you'll never get a deb in the archive with that

^ this

and being an Ubuntu developer on the nginx package and a few other packages under my thumb, I'm very familiar with package policies heh

3:39 PM

@ThomasWard qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=skitt@debian.org

@StephenKitt just reinforcing your statement. But nice

throws sticks at @StephenKitt just to annoy him

runs away from the Diamond-Powered Envoy of the Eternal Darkness

and notices that libz needs updating again

I used to maintain a number of smaller ports for OpenBSD. The best known ones may be anacron and GNU stow. Nowadays I only do stow. Maybe I should pick up anacron again, I see it's unmaintained. I remember having to rip out its handling of temporary files (original code had a race-condition).

Oops, I was wrong. Someone else claimed it.

Ouch, it still has my crummy README...

4:19 PM

@ThomasWard and @StephenKitt: Yes, that's what I figured. Is there a polite way to suggest that proper deb packaging would be preferable?

@Kusalananda How do you like OpenBSD?

That's the project maintained by the infamous De Raadt. Does he still run things?

@FaheemMitha contact the upstream project and ask them to publish packages?

or create the debian/* yourself and properly make it work with policies on pacakging

packaging is done by one of three groups, usually:

(1) upstream, (2) Debian Developers who contribute and pledge to maintain that code in the package, (3) community to a much lesser extent

@ThomasWard I kind of thought that the person I was talking to was part of upstream. But maybe not. Honestly, atm I cannot even remember what this package is or why I cared.

Typically I create an issue, or add a comment, and then get responses months later. By that I've forgotten what it was all about. That can also be a problem on SE.

@FaheemMitha It's my Unix of choice since about 17 years. Theo still runs things. He's only infamous if you try to argue with him. He knows what his OS should look like, and removes unnecessary bells and whistles with dynamite if need be. He's a nice guy, and extremely talented.

For example, if you've asked a question and get answers years later, what's the appropriate way to respond?

By that time I may no longer understand the question, let alone the answer.

@Kusalananda Well, De Raadt has a ferocious reputation. But maybe he's nice. Like Torvalds is nice. :-)

Meaning, he might abuse you on mailing lists, but is quite pleasant in person.

Though I don't know if LT is pleasant in person, never having met him.

@FaheemMitha yeah he is

4:27 PM

@StephenKitt ok

his abusive language is mostly targeted at people who are really familiar with him

He seems pleasant enough in interviews and such.

@StephenKitt If you say so. It's still a bit shocking to read.

@FaheemMitha Let's put it like this; I would thing long and hard about the things he said before I'd disagree with him, because he's usually right. And by that I mean he is usually right. No slacking amongst the developers in that project (in terms of sloppy code).

@FaheemMitha oh yes definitely, I'm not saying it's a good example

@FaheemMitha There's open source projects that are now open source that I helped build the packaging for

because packaging didn't exist previously

4:28 PM

@StephenKitt I keep forgetting that you are a DD, so probably know a lot of these people.

@FaheemMitha it's more that I've been to a fair amount of conferences

well being a DD does help when you're at a conference

"oh you're the guy who maintains ..."

@ThomasWard Are you a DD too? I don't have you mentally pegged as one.

@StephenKitt The Debconfs?

@FaheemMitha those and others

Right.

The Debconfs sound like fun.

they are indeed

I'm off to Devconf.cz at the end of the month

4:30 PM

I don't know that one. A local mini-debconf type thing, I suppose.

no it's more Fedora-oriented

devconf.cz

Ok.

I thought the name was amusing though, it sounds like a Devuan conference

Ah, a Red Hat affair.

yeah mostly, although it attracts other free software developers in Eastern Europe

5:24 PM

@FaheemMitha no, not a DD. Ubuntu Server Team member

but I interact with Debian a lot

(I maintain the nginx package downstream from Debian in Ubuntu)

@ThomasWard ok.

I have to know the packaging policies either way so :P

packaging for Ubuntu and packaging for Debian are not much different

Sure. Ever thought of becoming a DD?

@FaheemMitha thought about it, but not enough dedication in Debian. All my systems are Ubuntu though

and I do interact with Debian's security team and many other individuals often

happy where I am heh

(if I have to memorize two separate freeze schedules my head will blow up)

@ThomasWard Ok. I guess it's a fair amount of work to get through the process too.

5:27 PM

yup

@FaheemMitha I'm content just dealing with things in Ubuntu, and being a liaison between Ubuntu and Debian for packages under my radar

9:35 PM

Hmm... Why does the chroot(2) manual on Linux (Ubuntu at least) talk so much about how to break a chroot? It seems rather out of style for a manual...

derobert

10:20 PM

@Kusalananda Probably someone got annoyed at repeatedly seeing people try to use it as a security feature.

@derobert Seems likely.

11:27 PM

is this better here superuser.com/questions/1169003/…

anyone around

derobert

@William you might want to try Ask Ubuntu for that, actually

@William Keyboard shortcuts depend on what application they're tied to.

would it be bad to ask the question on both sites and what to see which gets more notice?

A: Is cross-posting a question on multiple Stack Exchange sites permitted if the question is on-topic for each site?

Yes!

No cross posting

97

Allowing cross-posting is a slippery slope. If you might have slightly better odds of getting an answer by posting it on two sites, well, by gum, why not maximize your odds by posting it on twenty sites! There are some questions which fall into grey areas between sites, and I think it's OK to a...

Q: Making Ctrl+C copy text in gnome-terminal?

this is close

48

Is it possible for me to make Ctrl+C perform a copy command if there is highlighted text in the terminal? Otherwise, it should retain its normal behavior. (If there is a terminal that can do this other than gnome-terminal, that's probably fine too.)

11:45 PM

@William the thing is, the Ctrl+C in the *nix world is the kill signal. Its use to mean copy came much later (I assume) and just isn't very common in the *nix world. I mean sure, GUI apps use it, but it would feel really weird to have that in a terminal. I know this isn't helpful, I'm just pointing out that you won't get much traction with this request among long time *nix users.

Although now I'll have to check and make sure of my history. Ctrl+C for SIGINT is much older than the same for copy, right?

It has to be, it's older than GUI

@terdon Ctrl+D or quit or exit also typically works

but i get your point

Ctrl+D is the shortcut for exit, yes. In terminals. Where else?

node

Ctrl+C is something completely different.

both Ctrl+C and Ctrl+D work in node

11:46 PM

node?

node.js?

yes node.js

What do you mean they work? Does it have some sort of interactive shell or something?

1) download node

2) run node

3) press Ctrl + C or Ctrl + D to exit

@terdon Vim et al. uses "yanking" rather than "copying".

If you run all your applications inside emacs you can copy with Ctrl-C.

11:47 PM

@William So it has an interactive shell mode, then?

yes sorry wasn't clear

@Kusalananda Tsk. So does emacs, why does everything have to be about vim with you people! :P

@William OK, then yeah, it will use the standard terminal keyboard shortcuts. Those include Ctrl+D to exit and Ctrl+C to kill the running process. But not for copy :)

@terdon yes but the point is I don't need both exit and kill so its okay to override the command

they essentially do the same thing

:-) Just pointing out that "copy" may have had a later adoption in the Unix world than elsewhere (as found in GUI applications).

@MichaelHomer Wait, what? Ctrl+C copies in emacs? That must be your tweak. It doesn't on mine. Or, at least, not to the kill buffer.

@William no, no, no, no!

They do two completely different things!

11:50 PM

(cua-mode t)

hahahah yes, yes, yes, yes!

please either link to an article or explain

Ctrl+C sends a SIGINT. It forcefully kills the currently running process. It's not a nice thing to do and is pretty hardcore.

(unless the signal is ignored)

Ctrl+D sends a whole different signal (I forget its name) but that ask the program nicely to stop what it's doing, but lets it take its time about it and clean up first.

Ctrl+D is only supported by a few programs. Ctrl+C works pretty much anywhere.

SIGTSTP

11:52 PM

well it appears I can use Ctrl+Shift+C

when I need to

SIGTSTP, "stop signal generated from keyboard"

If this is something you only want when working in this node.js shell, you will probably be able to change the shortcuts for node.js itself. Somehow.

       Signal     Value     Action   Comment
       ──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────
       SIGHUP        1       Term    Hangup detected on controlling terminal
                                     or death of controlling process
       SIGINT        2       Term    Interrupt from keyboard
       SIGQUIT       3       Core    Quit from keyboard
       SIGILL        4       Core    Illegal Instruction
       SIGABRT       6       Core    Abort signal from abort(3)

@Kusalananda That's Ctrl+D, right?

Ctrl-D is EOF and quitting is an application choice. TSTP is Ctrl-Z.

I believe so.

No, I think Michael got it.

11:53 PM

Hmm...

It can't be SIGSTOP since that and SIGKILL can't be caught.

> The signals SIGKILL and SIGSTOP cannot be caught, blocked, or ignored.

from man 7 signal

TSTP != STOP

@Kusalananda Ah, sorry. Thought that was a typo.

sigaction(2) on my system.

:34868469 They often have the same effect. So yeah, in some cases, what we're describing is pure geeky pedantry. In other cases, however, it can make a huge difference.

@Kusalananda BSD, right?

11:55 PM

Yep

> Ctrl+D is the shortcut for exit

so what does it send instead of Ctrl+C

It's not a shortcut and it doesn't send anything, it's EOF.

EOF == end of file

signal(7) on Linux

It's basically a way of saying "OK, run along, nothing to see here"

As opposed to Ctrl+C which is a way of saying "Get the hell off my lawn!"

It's kinda like the difference between turning off your TV from the remote control or using a sledgehammer. Granted, the TV will be off in both cases, so someone might mistake the two actions as equivalent, but the mechanics and details are kind of different.

11:58 PM

thanks is there a list of these items

the defaults anyways