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12:15 AM
@FaheemMitha I've only used OfficeJets (inkjet) recently, and also much more expensive HP lasers.
@FaheemMitha no, they work fine with amd64 cups
@FaheemMitha I tried the Brother drivers, but ultimately went with the open source ones
@FaheemMitha ignore their instructions on installing them, instead set up multi-arch and the dpkg -i
I don't know anything about their SANE drivers, as the Brother we have is a printer only.
I think if I were getting a new MFD, and actually printed a fair bit, I'd get an Officejet 8600.
 
 
7 hours later…
7:00 AM
@derobert Ok, thanks for the feedback.
I'm going by the amazon reviews. The reviews for the Officejet 8600 aren't that good. It is available in India though.
Also, I don't really want a color printer.
(181) out of 820 Reviews are 1 star. That is like a 20 percent.
 
NFS: You are dumb.
 
7:59 AM
@tylerl ?
 
@FaheemMitha I'd say it's pretty self-explanatory.
 
@tylerl not really. are you talking to someone called NFS? Or are you berating a filesystem, and if so, why?
 
@FaheemMitha NFS the shared filesystem. If you use it, you, too, are unhappy with it.
 
@tylerl Fortunately I don't. But I thought people tended to use alternatives like AFS now. Though I doubt that is perfect either.
 
 
3 hours later…
11:27 AM
@FaheemMitha I'm not sure what to think of that. amazon.com/HP-Officejet-L7680-Color-Printer/dp/B000MANW30/… ... I have a 7650, which is basically the same thing (it probably included different accessories in the box).
So I'm not sure if I got lucky, or if people on the Internet are idiots. (I purchased it locally at Costco, so if it was defective out of the box, it would have just gone back)
 
slm
12:01 PM
@tylerl I've used NFS and still do daily, what aspect of it is "dumb"?
 
12:13 PM
@slm don't question...
just "dumb"...
 
 
2 hours later…
2:10 PM
@derobert I
@derobert I've found amazon reviews, in sufficient quantity track pretty closely to the facts, so I tend to rely on them heavily. Of course, people can be idiots, but if there are enough people saying the same thing, then it is a good idea to pay attention. Maybe the hardware in your printer is different or maybe you indeed got lucky. Sometimes the hardware can differ even if the model number is the same.
 
@FaheemMitha Its possible there were multiple hardware revisions... Those reviews have a weird mix of people who are quite happy with it (I guess like me), but we're the minority.
 
@derobert Yes, it could be a bunch of production runs, some of which may have been defective. there seem to be consistent complaints about the paper feeder thing, though.
plus apparently b/w doesn't print unless all the print cartridges are non-empty, which seems pretty wacky.
 
The ADF for the scanner can be a little finicky. That's the only paper handling issue I've ever had with it...
Black and yellow share a print head, so I'm not that surprised it won't print with missing colors.
 
As I said, I've found Amazon reviews relatively reliable, so I tend to depend on them heavily. I guess you don't?
 
Normally they are pretty reliable...
 
2:17 PM
@derobert Yes, I think that is what people were complaining about. is the document feeder for printing different from scanning?
 
yeah, different from printing
the one for printing has never given me any trouble. The one for scanning doesn't like scanning both sides of damaged paper
 
In the case of these printers, there are hundreds of reviews. when there are like 10 or 20, there is too much statistical noise for them to really be useful. i usually look at the one star reviews first. if there are a lot of them, and assuming they are not written by morons who are complaining about stupid things, that is a pretty big minus.
@derobert I see. What do you do in that case?
 
manually put the document on the scan bed
but since you already have a B&W printer you're happy with, it sounded like you were just looking for a scanner
 
@derobert The brother printer I mentioned earlier has got consistently good reviews, and even the one star reviews are at least some of the time just about stupid things. i don't like the fact that it is so cheap, and also Brother's wacky deb drivers are a bit of a cause for concern, but unless i find something better i'll probably go with that.
@derobert yes, and a copier too.
The other thing is that buying electronics in India is relatively expensive, so one can't be quite as casual about it as one can in the US.
the brother printer in question is like $ 100 on amazon, but closer to $300 on amazon.in.
which is annoying, of course.
 
wow, wonder why so much different...
you get nice laser printers for $300 here
 
2:22 PM
standalone scanners are a good choice in general, but i can't find anything reasonable locally.
@derobert i don't know. partly import duties. also the list price for the brother is closer to 200, so maybe they aren't offering the discount here.
@derobert Yes, I've bought them. I'm currently using a Samsung B&W printer, which works quite reasonably.
Though I'm a light user.
 
I think Canon is the other big brand of MFDs here.
 
@derobert Right, but not so well supported by linux.
 
Depends on the model. Some of them are...
 
Ok. Anyway, where do you get your product reviews from, apart from amazon. i think newegg has detailed reviews too. of course, they don't have as extensive a selection as amazon.
 
For printers you can often find professional reviews.
 
2:26 PM
@derobert If you have any specific canon suggestions i can look them up here. but I spent a while yesterday on amazon.in and didn't find anything.
@derobert Do you find those useful? I like user reviews in bulk, because they reflect a variety of experiences.
 
Also, Canon != US has binary drivers for Linux for a lot of their printers. If you're OK with the Brother ones...
 
@derobert Well, not ok, but I guess I can live with that, if I have to.
 
@FaheemMitha Well, they're useful for different thingsā€”e.g., they'll have a much better idea of the cost-per-page, or things like that.
 
@derobert Yes, that is true.
 
I have a Canon MX922, it prints, haven't tried scanning with it yet
 
2:28 PM
Well, off to dinner. If you have any thoughts or suggestions, throw them my way.
@derobert Not available on amazon.in.
 
I got it mainly to print CD/DVD/Bluray labels. Of course, haven't gotten that to work from Linux yet.
And the Canon UI sucks compared to the HP one :-/
 
Rs. 32000. the dollar is currently around Rs 60.
 
Wait, that's ~$500 ?!
I surely would pay nowhere near that! I paid a bit under $100.
 
3:19 PM
@derobert yes, prices of electronics are ridiculously inflated here.
Partly import tariffs, like I said. Though, as far as I know, India doesn't actually manufacture printers. Unlike China, say. It might manufacture computers. Not sure. But I'm sure if it did, they would be crap.
The other issue is that lots of things are simply not available here. I had a hell of a time putting together a linux-compatible computer last year, because i couldn't find a decent linux-compatible mb which was available here.
 
 
1 hour later…
slm
4:29 PM
FYI for those of you that manage Linux + CIFS (Samba) installations there's 2 tools I hadn't heard of before this Q&A.
0
A: Changing CIFS permissions (FreeNAS)?

slmFor NTFS In researching this I found this AskUbuntu Q&A titled: How do I use 'chmod' on an NTFS (or FAT32) partition?. According to this thread there are several ways to go about this. Methods Control the permissions at mount time. $ sudo mount -t ntfs -o \ rw,auto,user,fmask=0022,dmask=...

 
4:50 PM
anybody?
 
slm
Guys if ppl are asking homework Q's it's kinda OK so long as they're asking us to help and not do.
 
Yeah.
 
slm
Everyone has to start somewhere and sometimes ppl just don't know how to start a problem.
 
And really, who cares if they ask us to do it? If you don't want to do their homework, well, don't/
 
slm
right
 
4:55 PM
I like those questions because because the more we answer them the less they get asked...
 
slm
we've closed ~2-3 of these today if my memory serves me. I hate to discourage ppl who are attempting to learning something which they don't know.
We just want to make sure we don't give them complete examples, if possible, the point should be to help them grow as a user of Linux etc.
 
I saw it a lot yesterday night, too. We're not the homework police...
 
slm
yes that's why I felt the need to say something, it comes up from time to time, we're here to help first and foremost, if you don't want to help someone w/ these types of Q's simply skip/ignore them.
 
That one in particular was a good question, homework or not,.
My hope was that someone would answer it with something that worked internationally - I wanted to learn from the answer.
It's not gonna happen now.
 
slm
Yes so let's not beat up every newb that asks a susp. looking homework Q
That one was closed for lack of details would be my guess. If you want you can expand that one and we can reopen it
 
5:01 PM
Yes... work....
But it
 
slm
It's a good Q at it's core, just lacking in specifics from the OP, but it would be good from the standpoints you mentioned
 
it's already plenty detailed.
 
slm
I didn't VtC so just my $0.02.
 
I know.
Umm...
Let me look at it again.
better...?
I don't wanna change the meaning of the question, so I just rearranged a couple words...
 
@mikeserv I closed it on the basis of this meta.stackexchange.com/a/10812/213575
 
5:10 PM
That post begins... "This is not the official position..."
Also how do you know it's homework?
I see all kinds of posts where people don't even ask anything.
I want to do...
 
@mikeserv but it is a guideline, and I don't care about if it's a homework question, I voted unclear
 
Ok, so what's unclear?
 
final goal
> Can someone demonstrate with examples of how I might do this in the shell?
is not a goal
is a "just post the first get to your mind"
 
It's not? That's my edit, by the way.
It was before... Dang, I forget..
I thought questions were supposed to be open-ended - not yes/no.
 
@mikeserv nope
 
5:16 PM
So yes/no?
 
they aren't supposed to be open ended discussions
 
Not discussions - but open-ended.
 
define open ended in a way that it doesn't boil down to discussion or gathering opinions
 
And it's "just post the first get to your mind" that works...
Well, the question we're talking about is an excellent example.
The goal is a shell script that will get a random letter between a-z and compare it to an input letter and say "correct" if the comparison matches.
Not - how do you feel about a-z?
 
you are still not convincing me to reopen it
 
5:19 PM
Ok. But you still haven't said what is unclear about it.
 
I said already: well defined goal/propose
 
The goal is a shell script that will get a random letter between a-z and compare it to an input letter and say "correct" if the comparison matches.
That's pretty well-defined.
 
@mikeserv no, that's just what the script is supposed to do, not why
 
Oh, you wanted philosophy?
 
no, I wanted an objective
 
5:21 PM
The goal is a shell script that will get a random letter between a-z and compare it to an input letter and say "correct" if the comparison matches.
 
we are going in circles with this argument
 
I agree.
The goal is well-defined.
If you need to know why someone has a goal...
Well, I dunno how to answer that one.
@Braiam - is that what you are saying? You need to know why someone has a goal?
 
@mikeserv yeah, most of the time people has the wrong approach to solve problems
 
That, I think, is an extremely opinionated statement.
Still, maybe, then, a more philosophical forum would suit you better?
And besides, even if the person asking this question is asking for the wrong reason, there are probably others that could use the answer for the right reason.
@Braiam - Can we agree on that last, at least?
 
I think MJD describes better my position here perlmonks.org/?node=XY+Problem
 
5:33 PM
Oh, gods.
Ok, so, even if the person asking the question asks for the wrong reason, there are probably others that could use it for the right one, right?
 
if you don't like it, your problem, I don't like those kind of questions in the site, and for my part it will stay closed
 
And I hate that X-Y thing... It feels so... stuck-up or something.
You are entitled to your own opinion of course. But can we at least agree on this last - "even if the person asking the question asks for the wrong reason, there are probably others that could use it for the right one, right?"
@Braiam...^^^?
@Braiam And more than that, I'm fairly certain you've just said you voted to close the question because you assume the asker asked it for the wrong reason. Is this true?
...*crickets*...
 
5:53 PM
@mikeserv I'm not going to read above but I know those kind of question hurts the quality of the site since it gives the "we write the code for you"-kind of vibes about the site, those questions hurt us and I don't want them on the site
as simple as that gets
 
You're not going to read above?
@Braiam - I'm fairly certain you've just said you voted to close the question because you assume the asker asked it for the wrong reason. Is this true?
If it's a bad question you downvote it.
If it's outside the site's scope you vote to close.
@Braiam - These are two different things.
So I'm afraid your as simple as it gets is a little too simple. And that kind of thinking hurts the quality of the site.
@Braiam???
 
6:14 PM
@mikeserv who told you that was the sole reason?
 
@Braiam - you said you voted to close it because you assume it was asked for the wrong reason.
 
6:43 PM
@Braiam - no comment?
 
6:59 PM
@Braiam - I just noticed the meta question you referred me to was closed as off-topic! How's that for irony!?
 
 
1 hour later…
8:16 PM
whatever happened to goldilocks?
 
hey guys & ladies.. I need some help with process substitution.. can someone help me please?
 
Yes - don't use it.
 
haha :)
I don't have an option..
 
There's nothing you can do with process substitution that you can't do portably with a heredocument.\
 
ok.. maybe I can do that with heredoc:
I have a bash script which runs a function process_manager in a background.. there are x functions ran, and I should be able to communicate with them - send them a command
 
8:22 PM
Sorry. What exactly are you doing?/
 
I need a simple and efficient way to communicate between processes.. the main process (bash script) is reading a named pipe, and it should send the commands to process_manager - child processes
 
OK. Best way to do that kind of thing is to define the functions that need to communicate together by another function.
Either that, or a simple trap.
 
@mikeserv wrong
 
No, I'm not.
 
I was trying to do that with anonymous pipes (or named pipes) // process substitution
coldattic.info/shvedsky/pro/blogs/a-foo-walks-into-a-bar/posts/16
 
8:24 PM
Anonymous pipes exist in kernel - they're one-way.
 
yeah
I found this link which shows how to do that with multi-way approach
 
Another way is named pipe - but it can lockup.
 
I tried to do it with named pipe, but when the first process will read the input, the second one won't be able to do so.. so lockup should resolve that?
 
@mikeserv named pipes also exist in the kernel and are also one-way
@Aljaz you need one pipe per pair of communicating processes
 
so If I have 5 processes that should receive the commands, I need 5 pipes?
 
8:26 PM
No.
Gilles is right about named pipes.
 
@Aljaz yes
 
But you don't need 5.
No - you need functions that share state.
 
@mike
 
That's all.
 
@mikeserv so how to do it with 1 ?
 
8:27 PM
Hang on.. I'm trying to find the answer...
 
@mikeserv you can't share state between different processes (not in a shell script at least)
 
ok
 
You can, though.
In this answer I show how to do something like it: unix.stackexchange.com/a/125872/52934
 
@mikeserv I'm with you on that one. Voting to repopen.
 
oh shit.. this is too advanced for my state of bash awareness
 
8:30 PM
I don't see what is too broad about it.
 
It's not bash - it's shell.
 
can you guys help me with getting this thing done with multiple pipes?
 
Basically you just declare a function with a function.
 
Well you might also command | { declare function ; declare function ; declare function ; }
 
8:32 PM
As for @Patrick's comments, plenty of people come here asking for scripts. They don't usually get closed afaict.
 
@FaheemMitha - I didn't get it either.
 
I think if there is some policy it should be applied systematically. I do know on SO, questions asking for scripts do get summarily downvoted and closed.
But we aren't SO.
 
@Aljaz you can't
 
@Gilles @mikeserv could you help me understand this part:

( while read line ; do
echo "$line" | grep 'aaa' 1>&100
echo "$line" | grep 'bbb' 1>&101
done;
) \
100> >( while read line ; do echo "$line" | sed -e 's/x/y/g'; sleep 1 ; done; rm $sync1 ) \
101> >( while read line ; do echo "$line" | sed -e 's/x/z/g'; sleep 2 ; done; rm $sync2 ) \
< <( for ((i=0;i<6;i++)) ; do echo aaaxxx; echo bbbxxx ; done; echo ooops )
 
8:34 PM
echo "$line" | grep 'aaa' 1>&100
here he sends text to 100 pipe?
what does \ mean in that context?
 
@Gilles are the kinds of policies i'm referencing above applied on a per-site basis?
 
It means continue next line.
 
@mikeserv i'm tempted to open a meta question about this, if one does not exist already
 
Well, there's one @Braiam pointed me to, but it was closed as off-topic...
 
and i don't know why a request for a script would be considered homework anyway
I think they were trying to migrate it to the general meta, but it was too specific.
there are lots of sites for which "homework" doesn't make sense, i guess. eg the cookery site?
 
8:37 PM
@FaheemMitha what policies?
 
@FaheemMitha - I know. It all smacked a little too much of elitism to me.
 
how could example above be written without \ (continue to next line) ?
 
@Gilles I'M NOT GOING TO WRITE YOUR SCRIPT FOR YOU.
 
@FaheemMitha ??? we write scripts for people all the time
 
Amen.
 
8:38 PM
@Gilles Quite. but see ^^, particularly Patricks comment.
 
@Aljaz - uhh.. Well, probably just by omitting `\`
 
What have you tried so far? What are you having problems with? We're happy to answer specific questions, but what you're asking for is someone to write a script for you. We're not here to do your work for you. — Patrick 14 hours ago
 
I'm not looking super closely at it though.
 
As long as the question is not gibberish (clearly written, reasonable grammar, not a lot of misspellongs), i don't have a problem with people asking for someone to write a script for them.
 
@FaheemMitha this one is obviously artificial, most of the script requests we get accomplish something
 
8:40 PM
not a lot of misspellongs), makes me smile...
 
still not a reason to close, only to downvote
 
!!!
Thanks, @Gilles.
That's what I said.
 
@Gilles Hmm, that's a bit subjective. And we don't have a close criteria "artificial". But is that why you think @Patrick said what he said? It looked manufactured?
@mikeserv heh
 
@FaheemMitha it's obviously homework
 
@Aljaz - I think your question should be a question.
 
8:41 PM
@Gilles Ok, if you say so. I dunno.
He could be following along in a textbook somewhere
 
If I see it, and I think I can answer it, I'll try to weigh in.
 
@mikeserv can you please help me understanding this line:
echo "$line" | grep 'aaa' 1>&100
he's sending this to anonymous pipe 100 ?
 
@Aljaz no, to file descriptor 100
 
@Gilles I don't have a problem with downvoting here.
 
Well, he's sending it to file descriptor 100
 
8:43 PM
which may or may not be a pipe, depends how fd 100 was opened
 
Yeah. That's not portable behavior - portably you can't refer to any over 9.
 
how would you assign file descriptors dynamically? if you had to assign x-times ?
to different descriptors of course
 
@Aljaz tricky. If you get that far, you should switch to perl/python/ruby
 
what would be the best way to do that in bash?
I'm in ruby, but i have to do this in bash :)
 
printf '%d<<HEREDOC' $(seq 100) | . /dev/stdin
 
8:44 PM
what would that do ?
 
Or something like it. You'd need to close out the heredocs.
It would open a new heredocument for each file descriptor you need.
And assign it a filedescriptor 1-100.
 
ok
and could I use them for inner process communication?
~how
 
I mean, not as is - it's really rough. You'd need spaces, and to populate the heredocuments with something worth using.
Well, I did link to that other answer...
That would also make a great question, I think...
 
the link with the space-shuttle shell code?
 
Space shuttle?
 
8:47 PM
I mean advanced shell code :)
 
I think the shuttle's code was a lot less complex...
But they are simple concepts, really.
Just heredocuments and parameter expansion.
 
@mikeserv I don't think the shuttle's code was in shell.
 
It's just that most people don't talk about them.
Yeah, I know.
 
Maybe the one that crashed and burned. That would explain a lot.
 
That was an o-ring.
 
8:49 PM
@mikeserv So they said. Shhhh....
 
OR maybe it was my shell script...
printf 't-minus %d<<LAUNCH' $(seq 100) | . /dev/stdin
 
lol
I still dont know what the easiest way would be to implement inter process communication
 
Well, you didn't ask a question either. There is IPC as well - that's in kernel. And you can use message queues.
 
Anyone, thoughts about buying a multifunction printer that works with linux and doesn't suck? Extra annoyance, needs to be available in india. I'm thinking of the Brother DCP-7065DN Multifuction Printer
 
I bought a brother printer. It did suck. But it was cheaper than the ink refill.
When its ink ran out I sent it in for warranty repair.
 
8:56 PM
@mikeserv Did it need repairing?
 
No - it needed ink.
The replacement they sent me came with ink.
 
@mikeserv Ok. probably dumb question, but why did you send it for repairing if it didn't need repairing?
 
For ink.
 
and why would they send you a replacement if it didn't need repairing?
@mikeserv Don't follow
 
They sent me a return postage-paid box for mine. And they sent me a replacement unit. I put the empty printer in the replacement box and the new unit on my desk.
Technically it wouldn't print anymore...
 
9:01 PM
@mikeserv Well, they're nice of them. But I still don't understand why they sent you a new printer if your old one was out of ink. Usually one gets new ink. Was this an inkjet printer? They are a pain.
@mikeserv :-) Interesting. I must try that sometime. My printer won't print any more, please send me a new one. :-)
 
I called them and told them my printer wouldn't print anymore, they asked for the warranty date and I gave it to them. The rest is history.
 
@mikeserv Wow.
I find laserjets are just less of a hassle.
laser printers, sorry.
 
I find they're too expensive. And really, I very rarely print at all anyway.
 
@mikeserv laser printers?
 
Yeah.
 
9:06 PM
Presumably the printer rather than the toner cartridges, though.
 
ppr
9:21 PM
0
Q: Uninstall a python software properly

pprI installed a little python software (pycarddav) before to notice there is a packaged version for Debian sid... Now, I would like to uninstall properly this software and then, install the packaged version with apt. Here is what I did to install pycarddav (following its doc): Download pycardda...

 
@ppr It is usually not necessary or appropriate to post your question in chat. it appears in the feed.
@ppr did you try the uninstall thing? Otherwise you can just setup.py to see where it put stuff.
Or you could just run the installation again and save the output.
distutils is usually quite chatty
and no, don't try pip uninstall if you didn't use pip in the first place.
 
 
1 hour later…
10:49 PM
I said what I said because of http://unix.stackexchange.com/help/how-to-ask. Several of the points on that page are relevant. Namely the *share your research* one though.
Yes, we do write lots of script for people here, but one thing I think you'll notice is that many of the scripts that are written are based on what the asker has already tried. We simply massage what they're doing into something that works.
While there is no official policy on homework questions, the community is pretty clear on their opinion of it: http://meta.unix.stackexchange.com/questions/344/homework-policy-proposal
 
@Patrick I looked at the help thing and the linked meta unix,sx question. The meta question does say making an effort is a good idea, but it doesn't represent any kind of policy. I think a flat question with no attempt is possibly grounds for downvoting but not for closing.
fwiw @Gilles said essentially that a little earlier here.
 
@FaheemMitha As there is no official policy on it, this is just one of those things that's open to the community. I can see arguments for both downvoting, and closing. I personally think closing is the right solution. But this is just my opinion, and if the community didn't agree, there would be enough disagree votes to keep it open.
 
11:10 PM
this is very weird askubuntu.com/q/470767/169736, smells like hw problem
 
@Braiam well dmesg would certainly be screaming bloody murder if that were the case. But there's one simple way to tell. Launch a high CPU process and pin it to that core
 

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