/dev/chat

terdon

12:00 AM

I have 3613.

Gilles

ah, you run a lean system

I have a lot of programs I don't normally use

including quite a few packages I installed just to test something for an answer here

terdon

@slm thanks, just what I was looking for.

@Gilles that one I know. I actually cleaned out quite a few recently using debfoster which I'd never used before.

@Gilles if you get the chance, could you have a look at this?

4

Q: tmux, TERM and 256 colours support

Introduction My question arises from the necessity of understanding why I have now (after multiple trials) Terminal and tmux which support 256 colours even with tput colors that tells me they are only 8. Background Let's start from the beginning. I'm using a Ubuntu box, Guake, tmux, Vim and...

Gilles

@terdon been there done that

terdon

@Gilles so you have :). Thanks.

slm

@Gilles Why'd you wait so long?

Gilles

12:11 AM

I waited until a hardware upgrade, to avoid having to reboot again and again

by the way, with a legacy BIOS, a 4TB disk and Grub 1.99, what do I need to do to make the system bootable?

will Grub know how to stuff its stage2 in the unused 1023kB at the beginning of the disk?

I can't find a clear statement in the documentation

terdon

@Gilles dunno but I can confirm I have grub happily installed using the normal methods on a 2TB MBR drive and BIOS machine.

Any reason you think there will be problems?

Gilles

@terdon 2TB is the MBR limit. I have a 4TB drive

terdon

@Gilles ah, that's a good reason to expect problems then, OK.

Gilles

The beginning is RAID1-ed with a smaller disk, but I'd like to be able to indifferently boot from either disk, because that's the whole point of RAID1

Braiam

I would get a live system ready in case something goes kaput

Gilles

12:26 AM

I have one, but I need to figure out what I might do with it

Faheem Mitha

@terdon 2718 here (estimated). dpkg -l | grep wc -l.

terdon

@FaheemMitha I assume that was grep ^ii | wc right?

Faheem Mitha

@terdon No, as written. I'm not as sophisticated as you guys.

terdon

@FaheemMitha huh? That greps for the string wc -l how can that return 2718 hits?

And the "sophisticated" approach would use grep -c :P

Faheem Mitha

@terdon Sorry dpkg -l | wc -l

terdon

12:36 AM

That I'll believe :)

Faheem Mitha

subtract 5 for the headers, i guess. so 2713

still a lot. including quantities of cruft

dpkg -l | grep ^ii | wc -l is 2708

so maybe it is listing some uninstalled stuff

yes, 5 uninstalled, with config, rc.

Gilles

12:53 AM

when an upgrade takes hours, it's annoying that there are configuration prompts now and then in the middle

I think there's a way to avoid config file overwrite prompt. But what would be neat would be proper integration with etckeeper — keep the local stuff and the upstream versions in their own branches.

Braiam

you can skip most of them if you use DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive

Gilles

do the upgrade then let the admin do a merge

Braiam

who is our aptitude expert resident?

strugee

@slm yeah possibly

I saw his email

terdon

@Braiam ummm, you?

Braiam

1:02 AM

@Braiam do you have any idea with this? unix.stackexchange.com/q/118908/41104

@Braiam err... no, I saw it already :/

terdon

Also @FaheemMitha @derobert and @cas (he's probably the most knowledgeable but hasn't been here in a while)

Braiam

@sthephane has given me some pointers

terdon

I think @casey is also a debian guy

@Braiam POSIXman or Gimenez?

Braiam

Shazelas

terdon

@Braiam Casey's suggestion is an exact match

Gilles

1:13 AM

@Braiam casey is right

there's also ?exact-name, but for some reason it's slower

Braiam

@Gilles I presume that if I use narrow() it will be faster

Gilles

@Braiam I don't see where ?narrow would help here. Of course in a bigger expression it might.

Braiam

the exact-name by itself is fast...

strugee

apparently I was the most chatty last night:

my toy OS/terminal/desktop/editor is bigger than yours

24 hours ago, 1 hour 26 minutes total – 256 messages, 6 users, 8 stars

Bookmarked 1 min ago by strugee

Braiam

btw, where did you found ?exact-name @Gilles

Gilles

1:19 AM

@Braiam in the manual

/usr/share/doc/aptitude/README

terdon

How do you combine ?depends with ?exact-name ?

Braiam

'?depends(?exact-name(term))'

I don't know exactly what ?exact-name() returns to depends

Braiam

2:08 AM

I'm so wrong?

and here too?

there's even people trying to delete them...

terdon

@Braiam Not as far as I can tell for either. I guess people think that ppas are somehow magic and different just cause they have their own add-apt syntax. You might want to edit that to clarify that PPAs are exactly the same as other repositories but they are simply more easily used with UBuntu 'cause of the ppa: format

That might pacify some downvoters , I meant downvoters!

Braiam

@terdon yeah, that might help

terdon

@Braiam No idea what anyone could object to there.

Gilles

@Braiam your first sentence is wrong

Malte's answer is the best one there

Rinzwind's answer is pretty thoroughly wrong, except for the parts he quoted

Braiam

@Gilles that's the thunderbird one, you mean the PPA one?

yeah, I had upvoted Malte

Gilles

2:23 AM

@Braiam it would be easier if you used the full link with the slug instead of the short link

casey

@terdon; Debian and Gentoo

Gilles

I avoid short links unless there's a stringent character limit

casey

@Gilles thanks for expanding on that comment and answering in Braiam's thread earlier, I didn't have time to put together something worth posting as an A

slm

@Braiam - this is what I'd call blow back for other things, why in the heck would that get -3?

Braiam

ok, I think I fixed the first sentence @Gilles

@slm not just that... it got 2/1 delete vote...

slm

2:25 AM

it's even now 3/3

Braiam

and isn't so dangerously wrong, like rm -r something

Gilles

@Braiam still meh: a ppa is a kind of repository

and there is a difference in apt: apt-add-repository has a special syntax for ppa

Braiam

yeah, that was what terdon pointed out earlier

slm

What's wrong w/ your 2nd links A about thunderbird?

this seems fishy

Rinzwind's got -3

and +7

@Braiam - the 2nd link does say latest stable, so perhaps that's the objection?

you're showing daily

i'm guessing there's a stable PPA too, perhaps shore up you A w/ that?

slm

2:45 AM

@Braiam - found it, I added it to your A there

Braiam

@slm yeah, was talking with the ubuntu team on irc

terdon

3:44 AM

@slm whohoo! Got one! (spam edit)

@Braiam I posted a Q about the apt thing

Braiam

@terdon I think you mixed up some outputs in the pre tags

the tk8.6-doc one

terdon

@Braiam thanks, fixed

@Braiam which virtual package?

Braiam

apt-get -s install tkdoc
NOTE: This is only a simulation!
      apt-get needs root privileges for real execution.
      Keep also in mind that locking is deactivated,
      so don't depend on the relevance to the real current situation!
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
Package tkdoc is a virtual package provided by:
  tk8.6-doc 8.6.0-1
  tk8.5-doc 8.5.14-2
  tk8.4-doc 8.4.20-1
You should explicitly select one to install.

@terdon ^

I haven't found the documentation still... but I know apt-cache is rather bad managing virtual packages

apt-cache search tkdoc
tk8.4-doc - Tk toolkit for Tcl and X11, v8.4 - manual pages
tk8.5-doc - Tk toolkit for Tcl and X11, v8.5 - manual pages
tk8.6-doc - Tk toolkit for Tcl and X11, v8.6 - manual pages

terdon

4:01 AM

@Braiam yes, but tkdoc is the virtual package, not tk8.6-doc which is what is being matched.

terdon

4:11 AM

@Braiam devnull answered, he found a bug report

jackopen

hi all

in windows files are stored within folders; is it possible any other alternate way for storage of files? i.e. there may be some file which may requrie multiple tags/folder name!!!

terdon

@jackopen you do realize you are asking the Uniux & Linux people right? I think you're looking for Super User.

jackopen

@terdon yeah i know i am at linux; is linux stores the content the same way as windows do?

terdon

Ummm... depends on what level you are talking about. Yes, the basic ideas are the same. I have no idea what you mean by tags though.

If you want to have the same file appear in many folders, you can create links to it.

strugee

@jackopen I'm not familiar with the tags on Windows but if they're anything like tags on OS X they don't really exist

in the sense that they're just metadata on the file that's used by e.g. the graphical file manager

Braiam

4:20 AM

@jackopen I think that the "tags" in windows are just explorer metadata, not something at filesystem level

strugee

there's nothing in the underlying filesystem structure that has to do with tags

presumably you now want to know if there's an equivalent in GNU/Linux file managers. I'm looking.

apparently the answer is yes:

Braiam

that's xdg thingy, right?

terdon

@strugee wow, where's that? Looks Gnomeish

strugee

@terdon very. it's Nautilus.

right click on anything > properties

@Braiam good question, I'll look

@jackopen that might make a good question on Unix & Linux

terdon

@strugee weird. Don't have it in mine (my nautilus). Must be a gnome-specific extension

strugee

4:26 AM

@terdon really? what environment?

I mean, it's obviously in upstream, since I'm on Arch...

terdon

@strugee Cinnamon 2.0.14 and GNOME nautilus 3.8.2

strugee

as I suspected, it depends on Tracker. maybe you don't have that installed?

terdon

@strugee yeah, but you're using gnome right?

@strugee is that the desktop search thingie?

strugee

@terdon right, I was thinking about distribution patches maybe adding it

@terdon yeah. Google for "tracker search tool"

terdon

@strugee no idea. I never use the file manager anyway so I'm not too bothered

@strugee yeah heard of it. Too graphical. I think I have some thing or other installed for that but I tend to use locate

strugee

4:29 AM

@terdon that would be why you don't have it. it's a Tracker extension.

Need a way to tag files in Nautilus using Tracker

Binary package hint: nautilus Nautilus provides search through Tracker. The "Tracker Search Tool" provides an easy way to tag files (using Tracker) from within it. However, Nautilus does not. I would like to see the addition of such an interface to Nautilus, possibly with features utilizing it (tag cloud like thing).

tracker (Ubuntu)

Wishlist / Confirmed

jackopen

@terdon "creating links" i think you are talking abnout shortcuts in windows; but it doesnt seem a good practice i mean cumbersome

terdon

I see

@jackopen I have no idea what you're trying to do. I spend most of my time on the command line so we probably have very different ideas on what is cumbersome :)

jackopen

@terdon i want to make an appear like delicious have different tags or something else bookmark sites

but still i am not clear with my requriement

terdon

@jackopen then I have no idea. As I said, I like my files plain.

jackopen

plain? what does it mean?

strugee

4:31 AM

@jackopen this is what he was talking about. it's worth noting, though, that on GNU/Linux systems links work at the filesystem level (so all applications see them) whereas on Windows, links (shortcuts, not junction links) work at the application level

that means that on Windows links are essentially data files of Windows Explorer, and if an application doesn't explicitly handle them, they won't work

jackopen

@strugee i have no enough english language or computer/software background so that i can formulate a good question; hence i always prefer to clarify my doubts thru chat as chat has less rules

strugee

@jackopen I would still ask on main later

terdon

4:44 AM

@jackopen also, don't worry about English. Bad English is not a problem, as long as you showe that you tried to find a solution, we'd be happy to fix the English for you. Just try to always write I (as in I am) with a CAPITAL letter, everything else, we'll deal with :)

jackopen

really; i havent find such an inspiriding words (other than photography) from any sites of SO till date.

i ll surely post questions

b2w i am blocked with Super User

& i dont have sufficient reputations to chat over stackoverflow

that is my history

one question where if someone is interested(although i have lost hope) can help me here!!

-4

Q: Editing Ideas in a complex situation

I guess information can be stored either in form of document, media(audio,video etc..), graphical(charts,images etc..) ways. Let us say there is a document which is having different information together (Important & garbage), Putting simply If a 50 page PDF document has mixed information (Important

design

i dont know whether it is a good or bad question

but i know it is a question & curiosity!!!

Braiam

@jackopen uhhh, 1) don't use "&" unless is code, prefer and; 2) that post would need some line breaks, separate the whole thing is paragraphs; 3) how would you answer that question?

jackopen

@Braiam i know it is tough

for me also to read again & answer!!

Braiam

and please, capitalize I's, english needs all i's to be capitalized

-_-

jackopen

(i have not tried) but even after doing modification; i have no surity that my post will be accepted or not!! hence i dont put much efforts!!

terdon

4:56 AM

@jackopen A few quick pieces of advice: 1) Use paragraphs, break your question up with whitespace, it is very hard to read otherwise 2) Make sure your question is on topic. You are asking on programmers but you show no code and are not asking about programming 3) make your question clear. Have a single sentence that states what you are asking

4) Be specific, how would you define "garbage" and "not garbage"? The computer does not know 5) Show THAT YOU HAVE TRIED to answer your question, research and show that research.

jackopen

5) being non-computer/software guy, many times i dont have research!!!

& it is very usual for beginner in programming world

yeah i can try google

terdon

@jackopen Then you shouldn't ask on a site that is for professional programmers.

jackopen

outputs

terdon

It's like asking a top chef how to boil an egg.

jackopen

for which SO site this question is appropritate?

terdon

4:58 AM

That site is for professional programmers, if your question is basic, it won't be welcome there.

jackopen

i am not sure

i asked with a hope that programmers willl have numerous ideas!!!

terdon

@jackopen none. It is extremely unclear, I have no idea what you want to do, you know what "garbage" and "not garbage" is, for the computer it is just data. Read up a bit first, learn the basics, then ask

jackopen

if i am getting answer somewhere else; pelase specify site name i will repost

garabge for user!!

not for computer

terdon

@jackopen yes but the computer will have to do it right? Otherwise it is not a programming question at all.

jackopen

let us say there is a movie file of "titanic" which is corrupted i mean at some parts some other movie is being played instead of titanic

terdon

5:00 AM

@jackopen yes, you know it's corrupted. The computer might not and having it understand corrupted vs non-corrupted data can be very hard.

The computer just sees data, how will it know that Sean Connery was not in the Titanic? How can it tell. Anyway, seriously, go READ some basic stuff. Wikipedia for example, try and learn the basics before asking on SE sites. They're not there for the really basic stuff, they expect you to have done your research. If you don't want to, there are thousands of forums that might be willing to help, just not these.

jackopen

5:15 AM

ok

strugee

5:44 AM

ahhhh. self-answered questions feel good.

DK Bose

Can someone please explain "orthogonal" in "Quoting is mostly orthogonal". I read it here: unix.stackexchange.com/a/16305/61798

Faheem Mitha

6:42 AM

@Gilles and @terdon : for the record, I don't use aptitude. I also increasingly don't recommend anyone else do so either. A simple glance at the aptitude mailing list should show you why. A recent message show Daniel Hartwig try to boot out that Manuel guy, though I doubt he has the authority, and others objecting.

At one point aptitude was considered as the replacement for the apt command line tools; in fact the apt command line tools were once considered nothing but demos till a "proper" front-end tool for apt came along. Some people thought that would be aptitude. But there never was anyone but Daniel Burrows working on it, and he disappeared a couple of years ago.

Since then there really has been nobody working on aptitude. Daniel Hartwig and Manuel have been doing some basic maintenance, but it is has been quite acrimonious.

In contrast, apt and the apt command line tools (apt-get, apt-cache etc) is being maintained, mostly by David, who came along in 2009, and pretty much rescued apt single handed. So, for now the apt command line tools are preferred.

Daniel Burrows once commented how ironical it was that the VCS darcs, which basically nobody uses, has a healthy and active development community, because it is cool or something.

In contrast, apt. which, um, more people use, has basically nobody working on it. Apparently because people don't like working on medium-sized C++ projects.

@strugee hi

strugee

7:10 AM

@FaheemMitha hi

Jenny D

7:59 AM

Morning

Faheem Mitha

Hi everyone. I'm tempted to write a question - aptitude vs apt, and then answer it.

Oh, I see someone already asked that

Answered by various people, Including Raphael Hertzog, who is certainly qualified.

Kiwy

12:23 PM

Hi everybody,
we (me and my various personnality) wish you a pleasant day.

slm

1:02 PM

useful meta.SO

445

Q: Recent feature changes to Stack Exchange

This is an unofficial list of new features and various changes to Stack Overflow and the Stack Exchange network. It is maintained by the community, but an SO developer would change the Accepted Answer to ensure that the latest changes remain on top (given default user settings). To see the list...

support faq

147

Q: Hidden features of Stack Exchange?

What are some features of this site that you consider "hidden"? For example, I didn't know about the RSS feeds until Jeff Atwood and Joel Spolsky discussed them on the podcast.

discussion hidden-features

Avinash Raj

some one help me

how to set another if condition on awk

slm

If you have new users that don't understand markdown

stackoverflow.com/editing-help

Avinash Raj

> awk '/W:/ { print substr($5,26) }' file.txt

@slm how do i put code in chat?

awk '/W:/ { print substr($5,26) }' file.txt

yes i got it

Kiwy

@slm thanks for the info, nice to read

Avinash Raj

in the above code awk searches for the letter W: from that file and prints the 5th column starting from 26th position

i want to add another if condition like W:

like i have to make awk to get only the line starting with W: and it contists of the word www.If both are true, then it have to do the operation { print substr($5,26) }' on that file.

slm

1:20 PM

@AvinashRaj Same as in the editor, 4 spaces in front

Avinash Raj

you mean in the search pattern i have to give /W: http://google.com/

the above code searches for the line W: http://google.com. am i correct?

slm

I don't know what you're asking

Avinash Raj

@slm

i got it

awk '/pattern1/ && /pattern2/'

so it will be

awk '/W:/ && /http:google.com/'

jackopen

any one good with excel?

Kiwy

@jackopen I'm a master in incremental values :D

jackopen

1:29 PM

@Kiwy what is that?

can you extract the results which are shown by "Find" search query.

Kiwy

@jackopen a joke, this is ver unlikely that you found a expert in excel on unix/linux stackexchange

jackopen

what is excel equivalent of linux/unix?

Jenny D

@jackopen Emacs.

Emacs is everything.

Kiwy

@JennyD do you want @jackopen to commit suicide ? :D

Jenny D

@Kiwy It's Monday. If they can do it in an entertaining manner, it might brighten my day...

Kiwy

1:34 PM

@JennyD you're an evil Genius :-)

Jenny D

I'm a sysadmin :-)

slm

@jackopen In LibreOffice is a alternative called calc

libreoffice.org

Kiwy

@jackopen yes Libreoffice or openoffice

slm

LibreOffice

| platform = IA-32, x86-64, PowerPC (project); | language = 114 languages | genre = Office suite | license = LGPLv3 with new contributions dual-licensed under MPL | website = }} LibreOffice is a free and open source office suite, developed by The Document Foundation. It was forked from OpenOffice.org in 2010. The LibreOffice suite comprises programs to do word processing, spreadsheets, slideshows, diagrams and drawings, maintain databases, and compose math formulae. LibreOffice uses the international ISO/IEC stan...

screenshot of calc

I use it daily, to work on Excel .xls files 8-)

Kiwy

@JennyD that's a good translation of evil genius yes... well nice try , I think @slm ruined your effort to have fun today :D

Jenny D

1:36 PM

OK then, I admit I too use Libreoffice for spreadsheets...

@Kiwy Indeed... Trolling: Failed.

Kiwy

@JennyD at least thanks for enlighting my day with a very nice troll attempt

Jenny D

@Kiwy I'm spending today in a maze of twisty little shell scripts, all alike. I am likely to be eaten by an emacs.

Kiwy

@JennyD there's day like where you 'd rather get the flue instead going to work... good luck with those nice scripts :-)

Jenny D

It's one of those Mondays that are really really Mondays... I was adding some functionality to a script a while back. Turns out someone else did, too, only that person didn't bother using git and instead was working with the old version control thingy that unfortunately wasn't shut down when we switched over. So now I get to merge his additions with mine.

Because I don't trust him to do it right, so I volunteer rather than getting to fix his mess later.

Ediff in emacs does make my day better today.

Kiwy

@JennyD I never succed in any file modificatyion with emacs even the visual one on gnome . it's like this editor just do not like me...

Jenny D

1:47 PM

@Kiwy It's got a very steep learning curve...

Kiwy

@JennyD I heard this several time, but it really makes me even more crazy than vi which is very hard

jackopen

other than SO/SE chat , IRC chat which are good resources?
for chatting about programming.softwares etcc.. stuffs
i dont think github has a chat module!!
reddit uses irc again!!
which are other alternates you may know?
which are good online web scrapper & web crawlers?

Jenny D

Kiwy

@JennyD I never manage to save one file with emacs, I can modify whatever I want but I never (even when I was studying and the teacher told us) manage to save a file and exit...

@JennyD but htat quote is quite funny indeed :D

Jenny D

@Kiwy save: Ctrl-x, Ctrl-s . Exit: Ctrl-x, Ctrl-c

and I actually had to go to the emacs windows and do both in order to remember the keystrokes - I just do them without thinking nowadays.

Kiwy

1:59 PM

@JennyD I use nano instead and it looks the same in fact

my toy OS/terminal/desktop/editor is bigger than yours

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