/dev/chat

Gilles

8:15 PM

They'll probably reopen it

slm

Seems like the horse is out of the barn w/ Emacs so they kind of have to

Gilles

This happened with English Language Learners, they closed it as a duplicate of English Language & Usage, there was a huge outcry and they reopened the proposal

Seth

@Gilles That isn't the impression I got from Shog.

slm

shog seemed pretty adamant if you read through the comments

Gilles

Fast forward 1½ years, nobody really understands the difference between English Language Learners and English Language & Usage

Faheem Mitha

8:16 PM

@slm Maybe it is some weird marketing gimmick. They hope that the controversy will hit slashdot and attract users to SE. Then they'll reopen the proposal amidst a blaze of publicity.

slm

I thought they shouldn't of allowed emacs

Seth

@Gilles I think I do... maybe ;P

@slm I half agree with you, but I don't see why emacs can try and vim not.

That is my problem.

slm

the issue they're going to run into is if it's based on community size then php c++ and all the languages can fork off too for the same reasons

Gilles

@Seth Oh, a lot of people think they do. But that only works if they all think the same thing, and they don't.

Faheem Mitha

@Gilles The former is definitely aimed towards non-native speakers.

Seth

8:17 PM

They claim a major difference, but don't have any good, solid evidence.

slm

@Seth that was my comment exactly to the Q in that thread

Seth

@Gilles very true.

Gilles

@FaheemMitha no, this isn't consensual

slm

they never had any real evidence other than it's a platform and the lame data showing that the Q's were scattered

they're showing similar data in that thread for vim Q's

Faheem Mitha

@Gilles I'm basing this on what I've seen of the questions/answers.

Seth

8:19 PM

exactly, but they are drawing different conclusions from the same data :S

Gilles

If anyone cares to defend the Vim proposal, I suggest to come up with data, rather than having no argument beyond “it's not fair”

Like: What proportion of vim questions are about writing vimrc/plugin code? What proportion are about user-level tasks but have answers that involve answers with code?

slm

@Gilles yup, I'm inclined to let it die and see what happens w/ Emacs, which I 1/2 suspect is what SE wanted to do in the first place

Faheem Mitha

@Gilles I think the replies cover it pretty well

Gilles

The second one is especially important: that's the questions that aren't a very good fit on either Stack Overflow or Super User

@FaheemMitha the replies to what?

slm

@Gilles - I think they thought they could sneak Emacs out as an experiment to see what happens and they figured they'll just fend off the vim ppl

Faheem Mitha

8:21 PM

@Gilles the closing accouncement. which, weirdly, was listed as a question.

casey

That answer slm linked could use more UV. Also someone could do the same sort of analysis Jon Ericson did for the emacs justification

Faheem Mitha

if all you have is a hammer...

Gilles

@slm no. When you start off with a paranoid view like this, you have no credibility.

Faheem Mitha

@casey what was the link again?

casey

26 mins ago, by slm

11

A: Closing the Vi/Vim Proposal

@shog9 suggested I put together a list of questions scattered around SE that would have been successful on a vim.se site. Part of the motivation for this is that it has been suggested: The best argument for splitting off a topic is that there's no single site where the entirety of it is alrea...

slm

8:22 PM

@Gilles ha, true. What logic could they have applied to this decision?

Faheem Mitha

@Gilles Sounds plausible to me, actually.

Or at least as good an explanation as any.

slm

where's that thread w/ the emacs data @seth?

this A in the thread had some rough counts

16

A: Closing the Vi/Vim Proposal

I'd say that the strongest argument we have in favor of a separate Vim site is that Vim Q&A is already quite fragmented across the entire network. Stack Overflow: 15221 Super User: 2671 Unix & Linux: 790 Ask Ubuntu: 373 And even TeX - LaTeX with 156 First of all, almost any question at all ab...

Stack Overflow: 15221
Super User: 2671
Unix & Linux: 790
Ask Ubuntu: 373
And even TeX - LaTeX with 156

Faheem Mitha

I thought the rolfl answer was pretty good.

slm

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/emacs - >11k
http://superuser.com/questions/tagged/emacs - >1300
http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/emacs - >370
http://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/emacs - >370
http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/emacs - >20
http://serverfault.com/questions/tagged/emacs - >10

Faheem Mitha

@casey which one did you have in mind?

slm

8:25 PM

that's the #'s for emacs

the first batch is for vim

casey

@slm From the vague descriptions I'm imaging a round table with an odd number of participants that swung +1 vote for emacs and -1 vote for vim

Gilles

@slm My guess is that Emacs has more questions that aren't clearly user questions or clearly programmer questions. That's what would justify a separate site to me. With the fact that you can do more stuff in Emacs than in Vim (why no asynchronous subprocesses, dammit?) as a secondary factor.

slm

looks pretty similar to me

Gilles

But I don't know if these are the arguments that actually matter to them.

slm

if you ever watch house of cards, vim just got shoved in front of the train

Gilles

8:26 PM

@FaheemMitha how? It lists some questions, and… that's all.

slm

Faheem Mitha

@Gilles Is shows that questions about vim were arbitarily closed? so, not a perfect fit?

Gilles

@FaheemMitha no, it doesn't show any question about vim as having been arbitrarily closed

slm

@Gilles I still think that forking either off was a bad idea

Gilles

of course there are closed vim questions. No subject is immune to questions that are unclear, too broad, etc.

Faheem Mitha

8:29 PM

@Gilles Yes, I haven't actually looked at them. I withdraw the statement.

Gilles

-2

A: Closing the Vi/Vim Proposal

This absolutely makes sense. It made no sense to have a whole new SE simply for Emacs in the first place. Guys, have you never heard of tags? Gees. This whole "everything needs its own SE site" fad is absurd.

this is the only sensible answer on that thread

Ramesh

@slm did someone jump in front of train?

slm

@Gilles That's what I said to begin w/

slm

8:43 PM

couldn't resist

0

A: Closing the Vi/Vim Proposal

These were the numbers from the Emacs proposal: source - Why do we need a separate site for Emacs? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/emacs - >11k http://superuser.com/questions/tagged/emacs - >1300 http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/emacs - >370 http://tex.stackexchange.com...

Seth

@Gilles you got your site, so of course that's the only one that makes sense to you.

But is emacs going to close this week? next week? the week after?

Gilles

@Seth what site are you talking about?

Unix & Linux?

Computer Science?

[embedded.se]?

Science Fiction & Fantasy?

slm

@Ramesh that's from the TV show house of cards

the main character pushes this reporter in front of a train b/c she's asking him touch Q's.

Gilles has like 10+ sites

stackathlon.com/superprogrammers.html

Ramesh

@slm dude you just gave away the spoiler :( zoe is dead? I just watched first season and yet to watch the second.

slm

sorry

whoops

you didn't see it coming?

Ramesh

8:54 PM

I was hoping to see more of zoe though :)

slm

she had it coming, she starts budding up w/ the other 2 reporters from her old job and they push her to ask Q's. Watch it, it's still very good.

Ramesh

she is the sister of the girl who comes in the girl with dragon tatoo.

slm

never seen it

heard of it, never seen it

Ramesh

It has a british version as well. But want to watch this one because it has kevin spacey.

Gilles

@slm ah, you mean the US version. You should call it Hose of Cards, to distinguish it from the original.

David Freitag

8:56 PM

@Ramesh Last episode of the second season is... You need to watch it.

slm

@Gilles - yes I only this week learned that it's a complete rip off

Ramesh

Well wrong timing to close the netflix account :(

slm

right down to the main character's initials being FU

Ramesh

And there is one more The bridge

apparently it is a danish/swedish series.

slm

I was going to see if i can find the original, but in reading the plot lines it sounds like a complete refab

Ramesh

8:58 PM

But still kevin spacey is good.

slm

yeah the acting is superb

Ramesh

But I din't enjoy his speaking to the camera though.

slm

still enjoyable

that's the best part

Ramesh

9:19 PM

Are these two similar to each other?

ques1 and ques2

slm

9:39 PM

@Ramesh - yeah

Gilles

10:01 PM

1

Q: Shellshock - not vulnerable with bash version 4.1?

We have several Amazon servers. It has bash version 4.1.2. Kaspersky claims that all bash versions up to 4.3 are unsafe. When I do this test... env x='() { :;}; echo vulnerable' bash -c 'echo hello' ... it returns: hello, and even though Lifehacker says that I should get an error back: bash: w...

I can't believe we don't have a duplicate for this

Faheem Mitha

@Ramesh You closed your Netflix account? Why?

Braiam

10:20 PM

@slm @terdon delete this one unix.stackexchange.com/q/40584/41104

Gilles

didn't we burninate server?

13

Q: Burninate [server]

In theory, the tag server is about a computer program running to serve the requests of other programs or a physical computer dedicated to running one or more such services. The first meaning (a computer program) is a useful one: there are many questions about server programs. The second mea...

discussion tags blacklist-request

Braiam

@Gilles do we need blacklisting?

Gilles

@Braiam probably. But first we need to burninate

Braiam

250-ish?

yay! people trying to use remote-destop they use desktop remote :/

Tyler Maginnis

as I have learned, communication is impossible.

Braiam

10:31 PM

@TylerMaginnis IKR... people can't read the sarcasm.. :(

Tyler Maginnis

we should just close down unix.stackexchange.com, cite the reason as everyone else.

^ sarcasm picked up? [y/n]

Braiam

mmm?

Tyler Maginnis

it (I) made me laugh.

Gilles

@Braiam but they actually did mean desktop remote — a remotely accessible desktop (not that the tag desktop couldn't stand closer inspection), and not remote-desktop (MS's remote GUI protocol)

Tyler Maginnis

@Braiam I was really on a roll answering questions my first two days here. Now I can't find any questions to answer.

Gilles

10:34 PM

@TylerMaginnis unix.stackexchange.com/unanswered

Tyler Maginnis

These questions are all boneheaded, excuse me literal.

Braiam

@TylerMaginnis or http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/your-favorite-tag?sort=unanswere‌d&pageSize=50

Tyler Maginnis

okay, ya got me encouraged.

Braiam