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Anonymous
11:34 PM
@DamkerngT. That is a very good question!
 
Anonymous
When does make not mean 'make'?
 
Anonymous
It seems trivial to come up with a circular definition for any word: make means 'make'. No matter what make means, that's what it means.
 
Anonymous
Sure, that sort of circular definition might not seem particularly useful, but can we argue against it?
 
Anonymous
I think we can!
 
Anonymous
What if make, in fact, does not mean anything in a particular example?
 
Anonymous
11:35 PM
If it has no meaning, it can hardly be said to "mean 'make'", can it?
 
Anonymous
You could make the argument that in a light verb construction like make a mistake, the meaning is carried by mistake.
 
Oh, that's a special meaning of make, too!
 
Anonymous
Still, this isn't what the OP meant.
 
Anonymous
The OP seems to have a more specific idea in mind for the meaning they refer to as 'make', and they haven't made it clear what that meaning is.
 
Anonymous
So to understand their question, we have to guess what meaning they meant.
 
11:36 PM
If it absolutely meant nothing, maybe we can say do mistake. :-)
 
Anonymous
That's the thing. Different LVCs pick different light verbs.
 
@snailboat I think it's like what I wrote after MIB's messages.
 
Anonymous
Why don't you do a bath instead of taking a bath?
 
Because that how English works!
 
Anonymous
It's interesting that in English you take a shower. Where do you take it to, exactly? :-)
 
11:38 PM
And it doesn't work that way in some other languages.
 
Anonymous
That's very true.
 
Anonymous
In a light verb construction, it does seem like most of the meaning is carried by the NP complement.
 
In Thai, we can say [do-act-bath], but does that mean it's the same "do" as in English?
 
Anonymous
I don't know if saying most or all would be more accurate. It's kinda fuzzy, so how can you draw a line?
 
We can [go-make-work], too! (Can you guess what it means? :-)
 
Anonymous
11:40 PM
@DamkerngT. In Japanese, する is the light verb par excellence, though やる is also used, among others.
 
Anonymous
@DamkerngT. Um. Work? :-)
 
Yes! :D
 
Anonymous
So what meaning do you think is added by [go] and [make]?
 
(More precisely, "go to work")
 
Anonymous
Oh, I see.
 
11:42 PM
@snailboat Coming from a language that has a handful of particles, I'd say it has meaning, but probably not like lexical meanings. It's more like a hint.
 
Anonymous
In Japanese, 質問 (shitsumon) means 'question'. It's a noun. But you can add the light verb する (suru) 'do' to make a light verb construction meaning 'ask a question'. 質問してもいいですか (shitsumon shite mo ii desu ka?) 'May I ask you a question?'
 
Anonymous
Coming up with literal glosses for Japanese in English is a major challenge :-)
 
Anonymous
I wanted to write lit. and put a gloss underneath, but it's so hard!
 
You can do the same thing the OP and I did. :-)
Just pick the strongest sense you think it's applicable to our case, and just use it. :-)
 
Anonymous
lit. question do-TE.MO is.good-POLITE-QUESTION?
 
Anonymous
11:49 PM
I gave up on ても :-)
 
:-)
 
Anonymous
Semi-literally: "Is it good even if [I] do question? (polite)"
 
Even an easier one like KA is not easy to translate into English.
 
Anonymous
It's pretty much impossible to make a gloss make sense if you substitute English words and keep them in the same order, so even when I'm trying to translate "literally", I'm usually not being super literal about it.
 
Anonymous
@DamkerngT. It translates fairly cleanly in this case. It's a grammatical marker of a main clause interrogative, so I translated it to subject-auxiliary inversion.
 
Anonymous
11:52 PM
In a formal gloss you can just write -QUE.
 
Hmm... but the subject-auxiliary inversion is not a word!
 
Anonymous
> Mosi=ka si.tara, kono keizi=wa zibuɴ=no koto=o utagat.te i.ru=no=daroʜ=ka?
 
Anonymous
> if-QUE do-CON DEM detective-TOP self-GEN thing-ACC doubt-GER be-NPS-NMZ-EPI-QUE
 
Anonymous
> 'Is this detective perhaps suspicious of me?'
 
Anonymous
I can't align glosses vertically in chat, unfortunately.
 
Anonymous
11:56 PM
That's sort of a semi-phonemic transcription, in that it indicates /Qt/ with ‹tt›. I want my small caps Q :-(
 
Anonymous
I wonder how long until there's software support.
 
Some day. Some day there will be such support. :-)
 

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