Language Overflow

Sᴋᴜʟʟ ᴘᴇᴛʀᴏʟ

12:03 AM

Somebody asked what it means in the elu room

Kurzd

Hai?

Sᴋᴜʟʟ ᴘᴇᴛʀᴏʟ

12:20 AM

Hi.

Damkerng T.

@snailboat "lam-tae-tae"!

@Kurzd Hi! Welcome to the room!

@snailboat Wow, that question really made it to HNQ, I think. But really, the top-voted answer got +7, and mine got +1?

I'm not asking for a vote or anything, but I think as a site, our votes are strange.

Do people really read questions and answers?

(It takes effort, I know. And I should know that because I cast most votes on our site.)

Kurzd

What do you usually discuss here?

Damkerng T.

Oh, no! I'm still the top voter of the month, and I thought I was really, really lazy this month!

@Kurzd Anything language!

Any language, and anything about language. Most of the time, it'd be something about a question on ELL, but more in-depth.

Oh, yes! And cats, snails, and hamsters! (Add your pets of choice here. :-)

Sᴋᴜʟʟ ᴘᴇᴛʀᴏʟ

Random thoughts about language, language learning, learners, and their language.

Damkerng T.

@J.R "delivered" would be appropriate (but slightly facetious) if after the golf outing, your activities at the 19th hole had left you somewhat inebriated. (Note "taken care of" in the dictionary definition). — alephzero 29 mins ago

sigh -- Apparently, the name of the city, Peshawar, didn't ring any bell for most native speakers.

A good and sound sentence became infelicitous in the eyes of native speakers because they didn't know the city, perhaps.

Kurzd

12:35 AM

I suppose this odd question will fit. Not reallly what I'd ask on the main site. I tried Duolinguo's German, in English, no probs. Then I realized I'm a native ES speaker and perhaps I should take the course in ES. Has anyone experienced anything like that?

Damkerng T.

I still have yet to try Duolingo.

Sᴋᴜʟʟ ᴘᴇᴛʀᴏʟ

I've heard some good things about it.

Damkerng T.

I read a review by a native speaker of Spanish yesterday. Wait a sec...

Sᴋᴜʟʟ ᴘᴇᴛʀᴏʟ

Robusto learned Spanish using it.

Damkerng T.

> The audio on Duolingo is horrible and computer generated. I can understand some spoken Portuguese, and lots and lots of spoken Spanish. I can function in Spain in Spanish. Duolingo uses one voice, and it is almost impossible to understand as it is computer generated and you can hear the mechanic like aspect to it. In learning languages, you really need multiple voices or you're not going to develop language listening skills of any use. This is a horrible, horrible drawback. I wish Duolingo would let me skip their audio because it is such crap.

I don't know if that's still true, though.

@Sᴋᴜʟʟᴘᴇᴛʀᴏʟ Oh, interesting! I wonder how far he'd gone with it and how well it worked for him.

Sᴋᴜʟʟ ᴘᴇᴛʀᴏʟ

12:40 AM

He had no such complaint.

He got up to 80% I think.

Damkerng T.

Nice!

Sᴋᴜʟʟ ᴘᴇᴛʀᴏʟ

Tchrist helped too.

Kurzd

Yup, the listening parts were a bit weird. I couldn't even understand "Weeks and months" in their EN voice.

I don't know if trying to get a third language using an UI in my second language may blow up at some point. I just didn't notice it was in EN for a short while.

Damkerng T.

I just saw the first episode of Criminal Minds: Beyond Borders (cbs.com/shows/criminal-minds-beyond-borders/video) this weekend. I'm kinda curious to know how the actress learned to speak Thai (or at least learned much enough to act as an interpreter in the episode). Her Thai speech pattern sounded a bit robot-like.

Maybe they trained her with some kind of Duolingo-like program. :-)

BTW, I was wrong about the reviewer being a native speaker of Spanish. But my memory is not very reliable anyway. :P

Kurzd

It's reasonable to expect some exposure to TTS in her learning.
Can't find that review in the link for some reason

Damkerng T.

12:51 AM

@Kurzd Ah, I was talking about a writer of the Duolingo review (a thread on Quora). Sorry for the confusion. I'm used to talking about a few things at once. :D

Kurzd

@DamkerngT. Yes, not even Ctrl+F can't find that review in the quora link

Damkerng T.

Hah! Hmm... Lemme check...

Can you find "Erk" on that page?

Kurzd

Nope

Damkerng T.

Hmm... that's strange.

Kurzd

I could read it in your quote, at least

Damkerng T.

12:54 AM

Kurzd

Welp

Damkerng T.

I still don't know why it doesn't work on your browser, though.

Anonymous

@Kurzd I'm responsible for a lot of the off-topic chat about small animals :-)

Damkerng T.

Hehe!

Anonymous

But hopefully I say useful things about language occasionally to help make up for it.

Sᴋᴜʟʟ ᴘᴇᴛʀᴏʟ

12:56 AM

Random thoughts about language, language learning, learners, and their language.

Damkerng T.

BTW, pets are on-topic. We made them on-topic, too! :D

Anonymous

Oh! Phew!

Sᴋᴜʟʟ ᴘᴇᴛʀᴏʟ

:D

Kurzd

@snailboat That explains Dam's listing of pets as topic
@DamkerngT. Neither FF nor Opera can find that one review

Damkerng T.

Ahh

Wait, but I'm on Firefox!

Anonymous

12:57 AM

Do you have JS enabled?

Anonymous

It's in one of the reviews that loads via AJAX, I think, not one of the reviews served as static content with the initial page load.

Anonymous

There's a "load more reviews" button when I have JS off, and the review doesn't show up. But if I turn on JS, the button disappears and it automatically loads more reviews, including that one.

Anonymous

(So I'm not sure what the button is for!)

Damkerng T.

@snailboat nods -- Sounds like you've solved the mystery!

Anonymous

To celebrate, I'll share this on-topic picture of Luna when she was little:

Anonymous

1:00 AM

Damkerng T.

Aww...

How big is Luna now?

Anonymous

Full size :-)

Damkerng T.

Compared to Ella, say.

Anonymous

A little bit smaller.

Anonymous

1:01 AM

That's the same snail.

Damkerng T.

Luna always looks happy in that photo. :-)

Anonymous

Snails love fresh sliced fruit :-)

Damkerng T.

(For some reason, I think a pet eating something is happy. :-)

Anonymous

Then snails are happy all the time, because they tend to graze, eating most of the time they're awake!

Kurzd

Seeing it now. @snailboat Do you always get the correct name for each of your snails?

Anonymous

1:02 AM

@Kurzd I can tell them all apart, yes.

Kurzd

It's difficult to write in EN having a kids party blasting ES sentences TT_TT

Damkerng T.

LOL

Anonymous

Ahh, I know how that is! Although my native language is different, and so are the languages I'm learning.

Damkerng T.

I know that feeling because I have a cat. :D

Anonymous

In general, it's hard to ignore a language you know better when listening to a language you don't know as well.

Anonymous

1:04 AM

Listening to the language you know better is a more automatic skill.

Damkerng T.

A party at a stadium nearby (usually in the weekends) doesn't have as much effect as a cat. Isn't that interesting? ...

Anonymous

Maybe your cat has you well trained :-)

Damkerng T.

Maybe!

Kurzd

@DamkerngT. What kind of effect?

Damkerng T.

The same effect as the party near you. :D

Anonymous

1:07 AM

Oh, @Araucaria is here! Hello! There was a question about mustn't in tag questions on ELL recently:

Anonymous

0

Q: Tag question of "must"; how to determine?

It must be her car, isn't it? It must be her car, right? You must be tired, aren't you? Why it can't be expressed: It must be her car, mustn't it? You must be tired, mustn't you? Note: Q:Is it her car? A:Yes, it must be her car. Possible tag question: It m...

Ey up all

Hi!

@snailboat Ey up!

@DamkerngT. o/

Kurzd

It...makes it harder for you to write? I mean other than by getting in the way of your hands.

Damkerng T.

1:08 AM

@Kurzd Distraction always makes it a bit harder for me.

Araucaria

@snailboat That's an ELU question, mustn't it be?

Damkerng T.

I think it's not as automatic as when I use my first language, when I use English. I wonder if it will ever be. Maybe it'll never be.

Kurzd

@Araucaria I suppose you have a tidy garden?

Araucaria

@Kurzd I have an untidy but cute balcony ... :)

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. What about a topic you're used to discussing in English, like for example English grammar?

Damkerng T.

1:11 AM

Oh, balcony! That's nice!

Hmm... what do I have? What should I call it?

@snailboat Hmm... I think I can feel that it's easier than other general topics, but it's still not as fluid as my first language.

Would you call that a balcony, too?

(That's not mine. Mine is not that big! :-)

Anonymous

Hmm, maybe a deck?

Damkerng T.

Oh, right! That sounds right!

Thanks!

Anonymous

We have a flat wooden space kind of like that here, raised up only slightly, but it has railings, and we call it a deck.

Anonymous

At my father's house in Illinois, we had a deck too, but it was raised up all the way to the second floor. It had railings too, of course.

Damkerng T.

Mine has wooden railings all around, too!

Kurzd

1:18 AM

@DamkerngT. All your messages seemed like a native's. Then you said you aren't and they became sloppier. A perception bias, perhaps.

Anonymous

Both my father's deck and the deck here in this house have steps leading down to the ground. When I think of a balcony, I think of one that's more fully enclosed.

Damkerng T.

@Kurzd I'm still not sure how my brain works, really. :D

Anonymous

Like, sticking out from the second floor of an apartment building, railings around, no steps leading down.

Anonymous

Maybe I should go take a picture of our lousy deck :-)

Damkerng T.

@Kurzd I think it could become sloppier more easily when I switch between languages.

Anonymous

1:20 AM

@Kurzd That's interesting! I wish I were more aware of my cognitive biases.

Damkerng T.

For example, I was thinking of that deck in Thai. I searched for the photo in Thai, and I thought about it in Thai.

For some reason, I got it tangled with my English.

Hmm... it looks like the deeper I have to think about something in Thai, the likelier the impediment in my English can occur. Just an observation, though.

Kurzd

@DamkerngT. Hadn't considered that. I'll try to use that.
Why...would you write it again? I thought you used italics for talking about a second topic.

Damkerng T.

I use italics in a few ways. If I use it for an entire message, it's usually because I want to mean it as my thought, not my speech.

Anonymous

I thought the italics might be like in a novel where they indicate the protagonist's thoughts :-)

Araucaria

@DamkerngT. , @snail, looks like a deck to me too ...

Damkerng T.

1:28 AM

@Araucaria Thanks for the confirmation! :D

Araucaria

@snailboat Yep, sticking out of the first floor ( I think our first's your second)

Anonymous

Oh, do you call the floor beneath that the ground floor, then?

Araucaria

@snailboat The basement !

@snailboat So all our rooms at the college below the ground floor are called B1, B2 etc

Damkerng T.

I guess my lizard is living on the B1 floor...

Man_From_India

@snailboat I never thought about it. If one wants to say "I'm working at homr", and considering "home" an intransitive preposition write the sentence like this - "I'm working home". It's still incorrect?

Damkerng T.

1:32 AM

(Let's make lizards, which are not pets, and other animals on-topic, too.)

Araucaria

@snailboat Oops, misread that. Yes, the floor that's level with the ground outside is the ground floor

Anonymous

@Man_From_India No, I'm working home doesn't work . . .

Anonymous

I'm not sure what exact set of situations you can use home as a preposition phrase by itself in.

Man_From_India

Isn't it strange, then?

Anonymous

It's not really short for at home or to home. It's not like a preposition is being omitted, exactly.

Anonymous

1:35 AM

I'll be right back, my potatoes are done :-)

Damkerng T.

I sometimes wonder which explanation is better for I'm home in the meaning of I'm at home, between ellipsis and "home is an adverb".

Man_From_India

Yes that I know. But after "i am working" if I place an intransitive preposition, how is it grammatically wrong? (i know that sentence sounds wrong, but how to explain it to a learner, me that is) :-)

Araucaria

@DamkerngT. Adverbs can never be Predicative Complements, unless of specifying BE. That's not a case of specifyingBE, so I don't think we'd ever call it an adverb there ...

Man_From_India

@Araucaria what is specifying BE, btw? :O

Damkerng T.

@Araucaria I'm okay with calling it either an adverb or a preposition. (Though I tend to think of it as a preposition lately.) It's just that in the question, it was referred to as an adverb in all comments and answers.

Anonymous

1:39 AM

Oh, there was a question? I thought this was an all-chat discussion! :-) Could you link to the question please?

Damkerng T.

(BTW, it's here: ell.stackexchange.com/questions/84703/…)

Anonymous

Thank you! By the way, I got my potatoes :-)

Damkerng T.

Yay! Enjoy!

Hah! That works with both the question and the potatoes!

Araucaria

@Man_From_India It's when the Complement of BE tells you which exact thing the Subject is meant to be. "How I'd like you to dance is beautifully" for example. Even those kinds of sentences are very rare indeed.

:)

Anonymous

By the way, let me apologize again for my habit of using smileys everywhere. I've had that habit since I was a teenager, and I haven't managed to break it yet . . .

Man_From_India

1:41 AM

@snailboat does ur snails enjoy potatoes too?

Araucaria

@snailboat Smileys are chat intonation ...:)

Anonymous

@Man_From_India I give them sweet potatoes instead.

Araucaria

@DamkerngT. Aaaaaarrrrghgh. How did that get closed as a duplicate? *&^?%$$$?

Man_From_India

I remember when I used to visit one of the friends of my sister, and when she offered me chocolates or ice cream her golden retriver used to jump around us in a cheerful way trying to eat those with us :-)

Anonymous

@Man_From_India I'm not sure what the best way to teach it is. In many cases, the best way to explain when a preposition is appropriate is with lots of examples.

Anonymous

1:44 AM

@Araucaria We only need one more reopen vote! :-)

Damkerng T.

@Araucaria I wondered that too! (I think my vote was the 2nd reopen vote.)

Araucaria

@snailboat Phew (panic subsiding) ....

Damkerng T.

pats Araucaria :-)

Anonymous

Oh, there we go. All five.

Man_From_India

@Araucaria @DamkerngT. Now this sentence will prove me wrong, what I earlier said - an adverb can never be a complement after BE :P

Damkerng T.

1:47 AM

@Man_From_India Ah, right!

It looks like I didn't notice when the pinning was expired.

Anonymous

@Man_From_India See sections 7.2 and 7.3: lel.ed.ac.uk/~gpullum/PaynHuddPull.pdf

2

Damkerng T.

(page 57, or PDF page 27)

Araucaria

@snailboat That paper seem to be endlessly useful. Meantal memorandum about specifying BE and adjs and advs ...

Man_From_India

Thanks, it seems a nice paper. Will read it later.

Araucaria

@snailboat Thanks

Ok my lovely peeps. Too late for me. Monday tomorrow. Going to hit the hay. Ciao all!

Damkerng T.

1:52 AM

See you!

Kurzd

@Araucaria Night. I didn't even explain why asked about the garden I supposed you had.

Anonymous

2:28 AM

@Kurzd By the way, welcome to ELL chat! :-)

Anonymous

(I know I'm a little bit late :-)

CowperKettle

6:31 AM

Word of the day: ell.

Ell

An ell (from Old Germanic *alinâ cognate with Latin ulna) is a unit of measurement, originally a cubit, i.e., approximating the length of a man's arm from the elbow ("elbow" means the bend or bow of the ell or arm) to the tip of the middle finger, or about 18 inches (457 mm); in later usage, any of several longer units. In English-speaking countries, these included (until the 19th century) the Flemish ell (3⁄4 of a yard), English ell (5⁄4 yard) and French ell (6⁄4 yard), some of which are thought to derive from a "double ell". Several national forms existed, with different lengths, including the...

Derived word: alnage.

> And you that ache so much to be sublime,
And you that feed yourselves with your descent,
What comes of all your visions and your fears?
Poets and kings are but the clerks of Time,
Tiering the same dull webs of discontent,
Clipping the same sad alnage of the years.

Damkerng T.

7:11 AM

0

Q: What's the thing you would consider because <it> is so important when you buy a computer?

Here's the sentence in my textbook. What's the most important thing you would consider when you buy a computer? But, what if I start the sentence with "What's the thing.." Can I say like.. What's the thing you think is so important you would consider when you buy a computer? What's th...

sentence-construction

> OP: What's the thing you think is so important you would consider when you buy a computer?

> A suggestion in one answer: What one thing you think is so important, that you consider it, when buying a computer?

> A suggestion in another answer: What the thing you would consider most important when buying a computer?

Our suggestions look like malformed sentences, IMHO.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. What's the thing you think is so important you would consider it when you buy a computer? ← grammatical, but I don't recommend going with this

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. What one thing do you think is so important that you consider it when buying a computer? ← same

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. What is the thing you would consider most important when buying a computer? ← same

Anonymous

Poor two-letter words.

Damkerng T.

nods

Anonymous

7:18 AM

They must feel so left out!

Damkerng T.

Poor things!

Anonymous

#They must feel so left out, mustn't they?

Damkerng T.

Hehe!

IͶΔ

@snailboat (/¯◡ ‿ ◡)/¯ ~ ┻━┻

Anonymous

@IͶΔ What I like best about you is your never-ending supply of tables.

IͶΔ

7:19 AM

Hullo all, mustn't you?

@snailboat As someone coming from The Periodic Table, it's my journey to fulfill.

Anonymous

@IͶΔ Ah, you must supply tables periodically, then, mustn't you? I see, mustn't I!

Damkerng T.

The number of hits of 'mustn't' in a chat corpus is skyrocketing!

Anonymous

The internet™ claims that I have a small frame size.

IͶΔ

@DamkerngT. Mustn't it?

Anonymous

I don't know how much I trust that there's really a tight correlation between frame size and the circumference of the wrist measured at the styloid process.

Damkerng T.

7:22 AM

Huh? Height and wrist?

Anonymous

Also, judging by that web page, I would suppose men under 5'5" have no frame size.

Damkerng T.

Hmm... I think that guy (a friend of a friend) must have a large frame, because he can push a nail into a wood board with his bare hand. (Mustn't he?)

IͶΔ

@snailboat They're not men. :P

Mustn't they

Damkerng T.

Looks like I'm at the borderline (again!).

IͶΔ

Mustn't you

Damkerng T.

7:29 AM

LOL

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. I'm 5'11, and my wrist measures around 6".

Damkerng T.

Mine is about 6.25".

Anonymous

You can't tell how dense your bones are from that, though. People have large differences in bone mass density.

Damkerng T.

Ah, sorry. I meant 6.5".

But I think I need a better tool.

IͶΔ

@snailboat I'm taller than you, mustn't I? ┬─┬ ノ( ^_^ノ)

Anonymous

7:31 AM

My bones might not make a very good push-nail-into-wood thingy.

IͶΔ

@DamkerngT. Are you using a sock?

Damkerng T.

Aww... I'm the shortest one around here. :D

@IͶΔ Yes, but how is it a better tool?

I need this:

IͶΔ

It's not a better tool, mustn't it.

Damkerng T.

But got this:

IͶΔ

Since the only times I've measured my wrist is with a sock.

Anonymous

7:32 AM

@DamkerngT. I have one of those!

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. That looks like a snail.

Damkerng T.

Hehe!

IͶΔ

@DamkerngT. You need g02.a.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1s0woIpXXXXbNXFXXq6xXFXXX2/…

Damkerng T.

A-ha! I think I can hack it with a phone cable.

Anonymous

Use a piece of string.

Damkerng T.

7:35 AM

Oh, it's longer than 6 and three-quarters inches.

Nick Drossos

4 Guys Trying to Take Me Down (1 on 1)

►

(via: ell.stackexchange.com/q/85137/3281)

Anonymous

Ooh, biacromial.

Damkerng T.

I wonder what accent his is.

@snailboat Hah! We have a word for that!

> http://www.nickhomefit.com/contact-us/
NickHomeFit Studio
1369 Rue Barré
Ville Saint-Laurent, Quebec
H4L 4M3

A-ha! So, he's Canadian.

That makes sense. He sounds almost like an American, but not quite.

That sounds like fake your way (to/through something) to me. — Damkerng T. 17 hours ago

Hmm... really? There isn't any better verb or phrase for it besides that?

I think fake your way and lie your way are both relatively new. What did people use before them?

IͶΔ

8:00 AM

Make your way (by deceiving), mustn't it

Damkerng T.

Nice workaround! (It must be)

Another possible workaround: act as if you know (it all).

Wouldn't we have anything more idiomatic?

IͶΔ

Hmm, I think know-it-all is a fixed phrase now, mustn't it?

Damkerng T.

Yes, but it's not normally used as a verb, I think.

IͶΔ

54

Q: A friendly reminder: ELL is not EL&U's trash can

We've been getting a lot of migrations to ELL lately. That's actually fine by me – I think a lot of them are okay on ELL, even if they're not suitable for EL&U. The two sites have different standards, and that's okay. But we've also been getting migrations like this: When someone wanna tal...

discussion featured migration ell

Standing at 54, mustn't it. I envy @Snail, mustn't I

Damkerng T.

50+!

Oh, it finally got an answer.

IͶΔ

8:08 AM

So, in order to get some meta points, I should go write on meta.ELL "A friendly reminder: ELU is not ELL's reverse trash can"

Mustn't I

Damkerng T.

Heh!

@blancocayo So many questions. ELU is not a substitute for having a friend who is a native speaker of English for testing sentences on. ELL will take many of those questions, but this Meta discussion is a reminder that only the really good questions should be migrated. — curiousdannii 4 hours ago

Hmm... that sounds like the implication is ELL is a substitute for having a friend who is a native speaker of English for testing sentences, doesn't it?

IͶΔ

Hmm.

No wonder we only get crap coming from ELU.

Damkerng T.

Perhaps I read into things too much. :P

IͶΔ

Mustn't we

Damkerng T.

I think both sites should accept questions that test acceptability of sentences to some level. The problem is to what level, and what guideline we should give to the OP about how to make their sentence-testing questions good questions.

Anonymous

8:15 AM

Well, at the very least I think a lot of us will help with that sort of thing in chat, whether we're native speakers or not :-)

Damkerng T.

nods -- In both main rooms, even! :D

Anonymous

@IͶΔ It's one of the top ten meta questions on EL&U now! :-)

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Conga-rats!

IͶΔ

@snailboat Mustn't it

Anonymous

It's currently #6. Three more votes and it jumps up to #4! :-)

Damkerng T.

8:17 AM

The skyrocketing continues...

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. The answer attracted some downvotes.

IͶΔ

@curious are you telling me that ELL is that native speaker you can test sentences on? Proofreading is off-topic on ELL. It seems you don't have a clear vision of what a good ELL question looks like. Hell, even my vision is blurry, but that's besides the point — IͶΔ 56 secs ago

Damkerng T.

@snailboat nods

Anonymous

Know-it-all is lexicalized, once a phrase but now a single noun.

IͶΔ

@snailboat Some people downvote things they think are redundant.

Mustn't they

Anonymous

8:19 AM

The second question they linked to has 4/5 close votes.

Damkerng T.

Argh! The sun outage strikes again!

Anonymous

Oh no! Turn the sun back on!

Damkerng T.

Please, Sun, please come back!

Anonymous

Ella fell asleep on the cuttlebone.

IͶΔ

@Sun ಠ_ಠ

Damkerng T.

8:22 AM

@snailboat I've never succeeded in trying to take a photo of Hagu while he's sleeping near me. I guess it could be easier with snails. :D

Anonymous

Snails don't move very much when they're sleeping.

IͶΔ

@snailboat How can you tell snails are asleep, mustn't they? You deduce it from their standing still, mustn't you, right?

Damkerng T.

wondering if snails snore...

Anonymous

Well, they go into long periods of low activity with decreased heart rate and respiration rate, during which they tend to (but don't always) retract into their shells. Whether they retract their foot or not, they generally pull their eyes in.

Anonymous

Sleep seems like the most appropriate term, though it might not be quite the same process that humans go through, given how much simpler snails' "brains" are.

Anonymous

8:26 AM

Really, they haven't fully cephalized and the ganglia which you'd expect to end up in the "head" area surrounded by sensory organs are still somewhat spread out in snails, so I'm not sure they can be said to have brains, strictly speaking.

Anonymous

So talking about any complex phenomenon like sleep, we're going to have to settle with coming up with a definition that seems close enough to make intuitive sense, whether it's strictly the same phenomenon or not.

Anonymous

I just typed that on my phone through a little earthquake :-)

Damkerng T.

Oh, there's a quake over there right now?

IͶΔ

Oh?

Quakes are nice when they don't harm anything. Or anyone.

Anonymous

I think so. Either that or the room started moving on its own, which would be a bad sign.

Damkerng T.

8:28 AM

Ahh... two small 3.1 earthquakes shook Northern California on Sunday afternoon.

I used to follow an earthquake feed (because of the tsunami). Now I don't know where to look for such information.

Anonymous

I don't see it on the chart, though. I'm starting to suspect my room theory!

Damkerng T.

@snailboat It sounds like a reasonable aftershock, I think.

IͶΔ

They remind me no matter how much of an arrogant person I am, I'm less than a dot in comparison to the big things out there.

@snailboat If this was Tom & Jerry, you would've opened the room door to notice the room has exploded and is flying.

Damkerng T.

@IͶΔ A-ha! Have you heard the expression A pale blue dot?

Anonymous

That cartoon scared me when I was little.

IͶΔ

8:31 AM

@DamkerngT. But I'm black right now

Damkerng T.

The dot doesn't refer to any individual. It's the earth.

IͶΔ

Almost. I'm wearing a stripped orange-silver t-shirt and black underpants.

Damkerng T.

@IͶΔ Fit for cycling, I think. :D

IͶΔ

Yeah, I'm too lazy to change clothes for different occasions.

Anonymous

I'm amazed at how simple snails' nervous systems are, given how individual they are, how much personality they have, how complex their behavior is, how readily they learn…

Damkerng T.

8:36 AM

Give them some time, they could learn to speak with us one day! :P

Anonymous

Some snails have neurons so large they can be seen with the naked eye.

Anonymous

Trick question: why the naked eye?

Damkerng T.

I don't know where those are on a snail.

@snailboat A fixed expression, perhaps?

IͶΔ

@snailboat Everyone points at naked things and they're very much "known".

Damkerng T.

A more serious explanation could be, it's a certain type of "eye".

But a lighter (and more practical) explanation could be: because the eye is definite!

collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/outside-in

Umm... What?!

> outside in: another term for inside out

@JavaLatte The AmE expression is inside-out, I've not really heard outside-in. Isn't the BrE expression wrong way round? — Peter 2 hours ago

@peter: Oops, my mistake. I have never heard of outside-in so I looked it up on NGram: it seems that I made a misleading case sensitive comparison. With case insensitive, inside out vs outside in is surprisingly close for both AmE and BrE. inside out is much more common than the hyphenated inside-out for both. For clothing, the wrong way round would be synonymous in BrE with back to front- i.e. the label is on the inside but at the front. — JavaLatte 1 hour ago

I guess we all haven't heard a lot of things in our own languages.

google.com/search?q="outside+in"&tbm=bks

Lots of books with outside in in the titles.

Oh, maybe they both limited the meaning to only this context:

outside-in the the american expression for an item of clothing where the outside of the item is on the inside. The equivalent expression in the UK is inside-out . — JavaLatte 3 hours ago

I missed that comment the first time, and instead of blaming that on myself, I'm going to blame it on the emboldening.

Anonymous

8:50 AM

We need more context to talk about these strings. We don't normally say either of them. — snailboat 19 secs ago

Damkerng T.

Yay!

Hmm...

These two words came from a manu of a precise laser system. So it should be distinguished very much: what exactly direction do they point. — Alex 3 hours ago

Is it possible that the OP was talking about the DVD laser?

(And one type of reader reads the tracks outside-in, and another type reads them inside-out.)

But 'outside-in' vs. 'outside-inward'?

Anonymous

Reading DVD tracks backwards would be interesting. Is there any reason to do that?

Damkerng T.

I'm not sure, but I imagine that it's technically possible.

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