Language Overflow - 2016-03-20 (page 1 of 3)

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12:58 AM

This is in reference to an ELL question. I am aware of double ing rule, but still in COCA I found sentdnces like "going dancing, getting irritating" etc. Wondering if they are wrong, or exceptions of the rule?

1

Q: is it grammatically correct? two -ing words together

The situation was going irritating at that time. I am starting eating my breakfast now. Are these statements correct? Can I use two -ing words together? Can you explain by giving few more examples?

Anonymous

1:23 AM

@Man_From_India The double -ing constraint is more nuanced than something as simple as "you cannot have two forms ending in -ing that are linearly adjacent".

Anonymous

See: Gerund participles and head-complement inflection conditions (Pullum & Zwicky 1999)

Anonymous

I'll quote examples 3a and 3b:

Anonymous

> 3a. Terry was enjoying reading aloud.

Anonymous

> 3b. *Terry was starting reading aloud.

Anonymous

The simple rule described above (or maybe in simpler words, "you can't put two -ing words together") fails to account for this sort of contrast.

Anonymous

1:27 AM

In fact, the rule fails all the time if you put it that way.

Anonymous

And yet there are clearly sentences that (at least, for most speakers) are not acceptable:

Anonymous

> Terry started to read aloud.
> Terry was starting to read aloud.
> Terry started reading aloud.
> *Terry was starting reading aloud.

Anonymous

I suggest reading the paper.

Anonymous

(The actual rule is given on page 269.)

2:27 AM

@snailboat thanks i will read it. In CGEL also somewhere the author wrote something like this. The verb that license gerund-participle can't be in ing form. Something like that.

Anonymous

@Man_From_India Yeah, the title of the paper gives it away :-)

4:05 AM

@snailboat hmm could not read the rest after few pages, bht it did mention a clean rule in page 269 as you mentioned. But does it answer why the sentence - Terry was starting reading aloud - ungrammatical?

5:04 AM

0

Q: Jealousy is an emotion ... or feeling ... that ...?

Jealousy is the easiest feeling to provoke ... invoke ... Okay, I'm a bit confused here. Even though the thought is pretty clear, the phrasing seems a bit strained to me. Please rephrase it.

The question assumes that feeling and emotion are different, but are they? If they are, how? Do all speakers differentiate them the same way?

Anonymous

@Man_From_India Well, start can take either clauses in the shape of either V-ing or to V as complements, right? Terry started [reading aloud] and Terry started [to read aloud] are both grammatical.

Right

Anonymous

So start here is a verb that licenses (what CGEL calls) gerund-participle clauses.

Anonymous

But it can't do so when it's in the -ing form. Right?

Yes

Anonymous

5:16 AM

Doesn't that fit the rule you said above?

It does, but what about "enjoy, finish" etc

Anonymous

Let's find the relevant section in CGEL.

I can't remember where i had read it. I mean page no.

Ah in page 1243

Anonymous

Yeah, I just found it :-)

Near the end, under the heading "double ing constraints"

5:22 AM

@Man_From_India I think the enjoy isn't a "verb that license gerund-participle".

Hmm... is that how they write it?

Anonymous

Hmm, but it seems to be.

Anonymous

Argh, they don't list what they consider to be the subset of verbs it applies to!

But I enjoyed to read is odd.

@DamkerngT. we often say "enjoy playing baseball"

@snailboat yes, they didn't list

Anonymous

They list some at the top of page 1244.

5:23 AM

Oh just a few

Oh, I was confused by "verb that license gerund-participle". I thought it meant "verbs that license both a gerund-participle and an infinitive".

Oh i see :-) no problem!

Anonymous

@Man_From_India Now that I've looked up CGEL's version, I feel less confident!

Anonymous

I thought I understood, but now it feels murky.

But there they don't say much.

Anonymous

5:25 AM

Well, that's progress! :-)

@snailboat Going through the dark before seeing the light!

Anonymous

Now we know the rule is not only restricted to this grammatical situation, but also to a subset of verbs, and also that the precise subset of verbs varies from speaker to speaker.

Anonymous

Murky, murky, murky.

Haha, we might expect a good answer!

A subset of verb - another confusing area for learners :P

Anonymous

Well, they list begin, cease, continue, start, stop, along with verbs taking what Geoffrey Pullum calls "concealed passives". Their example of a concealed passive is needs as in The lawn needs mowing, compared with *The lawn is always needing mowing.

5:29 AM

In that paper they gave some explanation why "enjoying doing" is correct, but not "starting doing", but that rule is rejected for many reasons.

I think Ving1 Ving2 is less awkward to a speaker when the speaker can think of Ving2 as a thing.

I think needing is already awkward in itself!

(Like wanting)

nods

0

Q: He delivered me to Peshawar in a BMW vs He carried me to Peshawar in a BMW

Which sentence is most suitable one in the above mentioned options

grammar grammaticality

deliver someone to somewhere is probably still in use, but why I feel it sounds a bit strange.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. It seems like it varies more depending on Ving1, though.

@snailboat nods -- I think it's kinda like feedback. Some Ving1 won't accept Ving2 that isn't a thing very well.

For example, if someone says He started running to the door, I think I'll not conceptualize the running as a thing.

(But saying "a thing" is already tricky! Like in "A noun is a word for a person, a place, or a thing!")

still figuring if I should upvote the BMW question...

voted and retracted... now thinking...

Anonymous

5:40 AM

My brain is still in a temporary state of explodedness due to -ing -ing.

LOL

(0:

Hi, @CowperKettle!

Good morning, @DamkerngT.!

Anonymous

I edited it.

5:43 AM

Edited what? Oh, I see!

I just edited your another edit. :P -- ell.stackexchange.com/a/54924/3281

Anonymous

Haha! Yikes.

Anonymous

Well, at least between the three of us, there's one person who can spell information.

:D

Wow, people can type fast, eh?

Three answers already! (including mine)

@snailboat "finish doing sth" is fine, but "finishing doing sth"? I think that is also fine. COCA has many such examples.

Anonymous

@Man_From_India Interesting!

5:55 AM

Somehow finishing doing something is really fine indeed!

Anonymous

Maybe you could do a survey to see whether or not they're accepted by everyone.

Hmm... is it because it's not punctual?

^Ugh! What a typo (of mine)!

Anonymous

@Man_From_India I suppose you know more about the subject than me now that you've read the same things and are researching in corpora :-)

@snailboat what does your native ear say?

Anonymous

Give me an example, please?

5:57 AM

@snailboat i have very little linguistic knowledge :( reading such papers with little background knowledge is really hard.

From COCA

> the Rookie are finishing setting up the ring.

@DamkerngT. Does it sound okay to you?

> (a reporter): "Behind me, Senator Marco Rubio is making his final speech, finishing running for President this year."
Disclaimer: I made that up. :-)

Anonymous

Could you supply the complete sentence? That's ungrammatical on its own.

Wait a sec

I felt like I should add his between finishing and running while writing that sentence up.

NIGHT Lucky and The Rookie are finishing setting up the ring.

Anonymous

6:01 AM

@Man_From_India Hmm, it does sound okay.

Anonymous

When I phrase things like that, though, I always want to add up between them.

Anonymous

Wait, finishing up setting up the ring sounds silly :-)

Hehe!

> She stands over him, finishing shaving him with a very sharp straight razon.

This one?

Anonymous

Sounds kind of clunky, doesn't it?

6:04 AM

thinking maybe I shouldn't've posted my answer...

Anonymous

Oh, why not?

Yes it does though :-)

Anonymous

Because there are three others? :-)

@snailboat Too many answers. All are basically the same. :-)

@DamkerngT. oh u posed an answer to this question?

Anonymous

6:05 AM

If someone were to suddenly upvote all four, it would become a hot network question and they'd all get lots of upvotes.

Anonymous

That's how stuff works 'round these parts.

@Man_From_India It's another question, a new question.

Oh i see

Hmm... in our finishing shaving him example above, finishing is not a main verb.

Is our discussion on Ving1 Ving2 only about when Ving1 is a main verb, or is it about every possibility?

BTW, I wrote my answer because I thought nobody would answer the OP's question. It's somewhat too basic.

Every possibility. Though our ELL question only asks about the main verb, but the rule double ing constraints include everything.

6:10 AM

@Man_From_India I see. Thanks!

No problem :-)

I've worked with computers for so long; I still don't know why the OS doesn't let me eject my USB drive safely even when I have nothing using it! So many hidden processes, it seems...

Anonymous

Maybe lsof will tell you!

@snailboat Alas, it only happens on an OS that doesn't have lsof!

6:41 AM

\o @all! Happy Nowruz!

Anonymous

Eighteen minutes left here until the day of the vernal equinox.

Anonymous

I'll celebrate my nights being equal then :-)

@IͶΔ Happy Nowruz!

Anonymous

Say, how many new years are there in a given year?

A few! :-)

Anonymous

6:47 AM

I suppose the world would be a merrier place if everyone celebrated all of them :-)

Indeed!

Oh, I found this nice message from the White House:

whitehouse.gov/photos-and-video/video/2016/03/19/…

4

Q: The new employee was ____ a failure

The new employee was ____ a failure. a. considered b. decided c. established d. believed I think only possible options are consider and believe and I think the answer is consider.Because this word is mostly used in these contexts and if I use believe it sounds like there is prejudic...

Perhaps only non-native speakers would argue that it needs to be if we want to use believed.

So, maybe the test was made by a non-native speaker.

It's interesting that Macmillan documented it as "believe someone (to be) something": macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/american/believe

Anonymous

My intuition says it most likely should have to be following believed, but I can imagine it without to be, if only marginally.

Anonymous

I don't think it's wrong to say to be should be there.

I think it sounds better with to be, too. But the sentence doesn't sound particularly formal, so I think omitting to be should be possible.

But the question doesn't say what the question wants.

Anonymous

> The Northern aristocrats who during the Civil War denounced Lincoln's vulgarity also criticized his indecisiveness and meekness. They believed him a weakling and their views reappeared deacades later in criticism of Barnard's statue.

Anonymous

6:59 AM

A random example found online at barryschwartzonline.com/…

(Does it want the "correct" answer or the "best" answer?)

@snailboat nods

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Oh, I don't think leaving out to be would make it less formal. If anything, I'd guess more formal.

Anonymous

I don't think I'd ever leave out to be in conversation.

Hah! I thought it would be more formal with to be!

Anonymous

Although informally I'd be most likely to phrase it differently in the first place.

7:01 AM

@snailboat As many as the calendars, with a few more?

Anonymous

It looks like examples with to be are much more common, and the examples without all seem to be rather formal.

@snailboat Thanks for the info about the register!

Anonymous

> [ . . . ] of a vulnerable ruler who, though he may have begun his reign as a prince "incapable of giving way to the spirit of liberty" which was slowly inflaming England, is at last exalted in his death, suddenly loved by and deeply connected to the people who once believed him a tyrant [ . . . ]

Anonymous

> For this was a day of personal grief that took precedence over national calamity. The master of Redcliffe was dead, victim of disease rather than Yankee bullets. But his family believed him a war casualty nonetheless.

Anonymous

> He was presumed to be her lover, and the local population was split between those who saw him as an upstanding man wrongfully accused and those who believed him a fiend parading in the guise of respectability.

Anonymous

7:05 AM

I would characterize these examples as rather formal sounding.

Does it occur in the passive voice, too?

Anonymous

> The latter, or a version of the latter, told of Midas' arrival at the site of Gordium in a wagon (though he was believed a native of Phrygia); it also told of a civil war which preceded the establishment of the monarchy.

Thanks!

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Not very often.

Anonymous

In the English I speak, believe is never really used this way. I've run into it enough, I think, that I accept it as something that occurs occasionally, particularly in formal writing. If someone looked into it, I suspect they'd find it used to be more common years ago.

Anonymous

7:08 AM

But I haven't really looked into it. All of these examples are from recent decades.

Anonymous

The last 50 years or so.

nods

Anonymous

I would suggest learners, generally speaking, add to be.

Anonymous

So I think Gilles' answer is good, although I haven't upvoted it yet.

Anonymous

Who wrote this test? — Gandalf 9 hours ago

7:10 AM

Ooo Gandalf

Anonymous

I imagined him declaring that the OP would not pass.

@snailboat For most learners, especially intermediate level ones, I think it's a good answer.

But it could give a false impression on the usage.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. I do think, to be completely accurate, it would be a good idea to mention that believe is sometimes used that way in formal language, particularly in writing.

Anonymous

I made up that "particularly in writing" bit based on my own intuition, not based on any research.

nods

7:21 AM

I couldn't believe there could be worse ELL questions. But apparently there could.

nice catch

It's rather sad that someone with more than 1,000 rep on SO formulates a question like this. — IͶΔ 53 secs ago

I don't even wanna edit that question. It's a lost cause.

Lost Cause of the Confederacy

The Lost Cause is a set of beliefs common in the white American South in the late 19th and early 20th century. While it was not taught in the North it did win acceptance there and helped the process of reunifying American whites. The beliefs portray the Confederate cause as a heroic one against great odds despite its defeat. The beliefs endorse the virtues of the antebellum South, viewing the American Civil War as an honorable struggle for the Southern way of life, while minimizing or denying the central role of slavery. Yale Professor Roland Osterweis summarizes the content that pervaded "Lost...

<clownish smile>

Anonymous

@IͶΔ Maybe I should have celebrated three hours ago.

Anonymous

7:30 AM

Oh well, no time like the present!

@snailboat Well . . . I was asleep during the "year shift" (Forgot what they call it in English)

Anonymous

Did you remember to celebrate in your sleep?

@IͶΔ it's sad indeed.

Anonymous

@IͶΔ Someone with over 1000 reputation on Stack Overflow recently asked a question on EL&U where the entire question body was something like "I need to enter 30 characters so here they are ^".

Anonymous

We had a brief discussion in the comments section, and they deleted their own question, so I can't link you to it.

7:45 AM

@snailboat Someone with over 10,000 reputation on WorldBuilding asked a question on ELU where they got 8 downvotes.

Anonymous

I can see that happening, but that sort of thing has got to be at least uncommon.

Anonymous

In the Japanese version of Inside Out, they replaced broccoli with green peppers.

Anonymous

Apparently American kids hate broccoli, but Japanese kids hate green peppers.

I used to hate this as a kid.

@CowperKettle What is that?

7:58 AM

I would've gladly eaten either broccoli or green pepper instead of that monstrosity.

> Semolina porridge is a porridge made from semolina boiled in sweetened milk.

How helpful.

A yucky kind of porridge, especially when mass-produced. (0:

Hmm, sounds like placeholder food.

And it is mass produced in kindergartens and schools

Indeed it is.

I give you all rights to despise it.

8:01 AM

I believe these rights are Creative Commons-licenzed, so everyone is free to despise it, as long as they attribute their despisement to some original despiser.

Anonymous

Broccoli is great.

Anonymous

Although peppers are my favorite food. :-D

Broccoli is one of the few vegetables I eat because they taste good.

Broccoli, peppers, everything green is great.

Anonymous

I only eat vegetables I like.

8:03 AM

I love the (?) Brussels sprouts.

Anonymous

Which is a lot of vegetables.

@Dam @Snail @Cowper @Dawny Language Learning just reached 100% commitment.

Fine!

Yay!

Anonymous

I might participate there once it's out of private beta.

8:04 AM

Does that mean it will move out of Area 51?

@DamkerngT. Yes, into Private beta.

Yeah. I'm a beta-er!

Anonymous

I'm not sure how well it'll fit the SE model, and I imagine most of the Q&A there will be based more on personal experience and not really on academic research . . .

@snailboat I couldn't figure out whether or not you have committed because laziness.

Anonymous

So I think I'm going to wait and see how it turns out.

8:05 AM

@snailboat nods -- I guess we're going to have all things subjective.

Anonymous

But there's an awful lot that can be discussed more objectively.

@DamkerngT. If it's gonna be like that I won't participate.

BUT

Anonymous

There is, after all, a lot of research into language learning.

You shouldn't make assumptions about things that don't exist yet.

nods

Anonymous

8:07 AM

Well, don't let my personal attitude toward the site bias you against it :-)

biases against it

TIL: I can hear a lot of vinyls as final.

Anonymous

area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/82841/…

Anonymous

Let's look at the top example questions.

Anonymous

> Which strategy leads to better learning, speaking from day 1, or having a "silent period"?

Anonymous

8:13 AM

> Are there any studies which address the effectiveness of studying multiple related languages (e.g. French/Spanish) simultaneously?

Anonymous

> Are there any real advantages to follow an audio-only language course (like Pimsleur or Michael Thomas) instead a more traditional one?

Anonymous

> How efficient is Duolingo at teaching speaking in the language?

Anonymous

> Should Chinese be learned before Japanese or Japanese before Chinese?

I wonder if "It depends" could be a universal answer.

Anonymous

> Can a person be sound deaf only in foreign languages not in their own?

Anonymous

8:14 AM

I like this one.

(Like "Because!" as a universal answer to the why questions on ELL.)

Anonymous

Okay, I committed, but it's a kinda fake waffley commitment.

@snailboat Given the number of people who lived, have lived, are living, and will live on earth, I suppose some people might be deaf to some sounds in their own languages.

@snailboat Yay!

Anonymous

Maybe there'll be enough psycholinguistics questions to keep things interesting :-)

I hope so, too!

0

Q: Is according to fit for my sentence?

I build my first project according to the web page http://ell.stackexchange.com/questions/ask step by step.

Anonymous

8:21 AM

I'm just bracing myself for critical period answers.

Wow, someone can answer that question!?!

I don't even know how to make sense of it.

Peter the Great can answer every question.

As long as there's a bold tag around to bold something.

clearing some old tabs here

@CowperKettle Hah!

(0:

I can't make sense of your sentence. What kind of "project" is your project? Why is it related to the steps on the Ask page? As it is, it's unclear, and it's a proofreading request. Either way, I think it's off-topic. — Damkerng T. 2 mins ago

I cast my vote.

Anonymous

8:27 AM

I think that a lot of answers on the Language Learning site will be really subjective in nature.

Hi, @Sᴋᴜʟʟᴘᴇᴛʀᴏʟ!

Wow, I can't even type your name now!

Anonymous

People on online language learning communities usually have all sorts of different opinions and think everyone else should learn the same way they do.

@snailboat I have a strong opinion that it depends. :-)

Anonymous

I think there are some things that are relatively universal, though.

Anonymous

Like, you obviously need adequate exposure to actual language use to acquire it. You can't just read a book on grammar and expect to know a language.

Anonymous

8:29 AM

But I agree with you that a lot of stuff really just depends.

nods

Anonymous

I'm just not sure if we'd agree about which stuff "depends" :-)

In a way, all those learning XYZ (a language) in 7/10/30 days are more or less lies.

Anonymous

A lot of people believe in the modality version of "learning styles". For example, some people, they say, are auditory learners; others are better at learning visually. That sort of thing.

Anonymous

Which is actually true, and obviously so. But!

Anonymous

8:32 AM

Unfortunately, it doesn't translate into "auditory learners should spend all their time listening" and "visual learners should spend all their time reading" and things like that.

Anonymous

Doing that sort of thing doesn't really work any better than just ignoring the "learning styles" you've identified.

Anonymous

In language learning, for example, you have to do a lot of auditory learning whether you're good at it or not.

nods -- I think this makes teaching more art than science.

Anonymous

A lot of teachers swear by targeting learning styles, but there's just no research to support any of the current ways of doing so as being useful.

And why teaching a second language in classrooms usually doesn't work for everyone in the class.

Anonymous

8:34 AM

But it seems like it must be because it's so obvious that different people are better at learning in different ways . . .

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. I think the majority of learning has to be done by the learner, learned rather than taught. If that makes sense?

It makes sense.

Anonymous

It makes me sad when people languish in classroom environments that I think they could benefit from if they put more of their own effort into it.

@snailboat A teacher is a coach, basically, making sure the pupil does the problems.

> All tradesmen cry up their own wares;
In this they agree well together:
The Mason by stone and lime swears;
The Tanner is always for leather.
The Smith still for iron would go;
The Schoolmaster stands up for teaching;
And the Parson would have you to know,
There's nothing on earth like his preaching.

Anonymous

@CowperKettle That's a great way of putting it! A teacher is a coach.

8:35 AM

@snailboat Like most of them, anyway

@snailboat I failed miserably in my first swimming class.

@snailboat Whew. Thanks for pointing out the typo! (0:

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Me too! And they never let me try again because they were afraid I'd drown :-)

Hah!

The teacher just left me alone, at one side of the pool.

Anonymous

@CowperKettle I've learned that repeating things back to people with corrections is a particularly non-confrontational way of pointing out mistakes :-)

8:37 AM

Hmm, can someone ask their Area51 question on the main site too?

Anonymous

So it's become a habit.

@snailboat (0:

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Yeah, I think so . . .

Anonymous

There are people who can learn enough to get around and have a very basic conversation pretty quickly.

Anonymous

There are some relatively famous polyglots who've done that for a lot of languages.

8:41 AM

nods -- But that wouldn't get them pass any standard language test, I think.

Anonymous

Like this guy: fluentin3months.com

Ja

I agree with @JimReynolds that we basically learn language by reading stuff we're interested in, and talking about that stuff. A teacher is a coach, nothing more.

I'm gonna name my kid Fluentin.

Anonymous

@CowperKettle I cheat! I'm interested in reading about grammar in Japanese! :-)

8:42 AM

@snailboat I think those guys are people who like quantity more than quality.

@snailboat (0:

@IͶΔ Is this short for "sulfur hexafluoride"? (0:

Anonymous

I can't claim to be a particularly good language learner.

Anonymous

I just have one trick up my sleeve, really: persistence! :-)

(0:

Anonymous

I know a lot more Japanese than anyone I was studying with 18 years ago 'cause I stuck with it.

8:44 AM

thinking of those LED TV ads: contrast 1:10000000000000...

Anonymous

And no matter how bad you are at learning, you've got to be able to learn something in eighteen years.

And smileys

@snailboat Persistence is one real virtue!

Anonymous

Smileys! The two tricks I have up my sleeve are smileys, persistence, ruthless efficiency, and nice red uniforms!

Wait, nice red uniforms?

Anonymous

8:45 AM

Sorry, Monty Python reference.

Ahh... I see!

The Holy Inquisition?

I wonder how one would change this into a good question for the LL site: "Are those become-fluent-in-language-X-in-few-months programs effective?"

Anonymous

Monty Python Live (mostly) - Spanish Inquisition

@IͶΔ It depends.

:P

But really, I think it depends on what people mean when saying "learning a language".

Anonymous

8:49 AM

@DamkerngT. Any question like "Is Duolingo effective?" seems like it's going to be drawing mainly on personal experience and opinion for answers.

Anonymous

On Quora, someone asked, and the guy who founded Duolingo answered: quora.com/How-effective-is-Duolingo-in-learning-a-language

Anonymous

Ugh, Rosetta Stone.

@snailboat That's why I asked how to make it something objective.

I wonder if Duolingo haters posted anything there.

Anonymous

I honestly judge most online courses like this by the people I see who've used them.

8:50 AM

@snailboat Flags as spam

I remember that some people say Rosetta Stone is the best method for them.

Anonymous

But for Japanese, I've taken the time to go through some of them.

Anonymous

And I have to say, I was disappointed with most of them :-(

@snailboat That's the best way to judge, I think.

> On average, it takes 34 hours of Duolingo to learn the equivalent of one semester of college.

Wait! Isn't 34 hours longer than a semester?!

@DamkerngT. But they don't teach anything good in college.

Anonymous

8:53 AM

Wouldn't you expect something like 60 hours?

To me it's not a surprise.

Anonymous

45-60

College classes tend to be slow. Like, really slow.

Well, in my school days, a semester was about 3 months long.

If they can squeeze that into 10 hours, that might be something.

But of course, that'd need brains on the learner's side.

Anonymous

8:54 AM

Usually you would count hours spent outside the class also, on homework and such. Are you doing that?

It's an one-hour English class a week.

Anonymous

Oh! Only one hour.

@snailboat No, are we supposed to?

See, 34 hours is way longer!

We're not supposed to where I'm coming from.

Anonymous

8:55 AM

Well, if you want to count the total number of hours you've put into it, yes!

Anonymous

Which is the only way that makes sense if you're comparing it to a complete course like we are here, I think.

nods

Even if we tripled the number of hours, it'd become just about the same number of hours.

Anonymous

I was imagining a two-hour class.

1-hour is too short for a class IMO.

Depends on how much you enjoy the class, the optimal time for a class is 75 to 120 minutes IMO.

IIRC, the number of hours increased along with the grade.

8:59 AM

@Snail you've seen this?

@IͶΔ I wasn't familiar with the linguistic sense of redundancy that I came across when I Googled redundancy - I've linked the Wikipedia page. The questions that are tagged with the redundancy tag are mostly about duplicate words, while the linguistic term is about repeated information/meaning (semantics). I'm asking the folks that have been here longer than I have if there was any intention for the redundancy tag to be the linguistic definition. I don't care one way or the other really, but it should have a wiki clarifying which sense it's being used for. — ColleenV 9 hours ago

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