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1:14 PM
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

NeilDo X without Y​ again! Here is an X done with Y: YYYY YYYY YYYY YYYY YYYY YYYY YYYY YYYY YYYYYYYY YYYYYY YYYYYY YYYYYYYY YYYY YYYY YYYY YYYY YYYY YYYY YYYY YYYY As you can see, there are 92 Ys in this ...

 
Challenge idea: format test cases for a challenge.
 
@zyabin101 testcases please
 
3
A: Things to avoid when writing challenges

Digital TraumaExclamation marks in titles! Quite a lot of questions have exclamation marks at the end of their titles! To me this just seems like a vain attempt to attract more attention with the hope of getting more upvotes! I don't think I've ever seen a challenge with an exclamation mark in the title wher...

Best post ever!
 
@TùxCräftîñg D'accord!!
 
0
Q: Draw a Fibonacci Network!

GLASSICWhat are Fibonacci networks? In 1202, an Italian mathematician known as Fibonacci posed the following problem: "A male and a female rabbit are born at the beginning of the year. We assume the following conditions: 1.After reaching the age of two months, each pair produces a mixed p...

 
@zyabin101 jmj" => "`M
 
@zyabin101 lambda l:list(map(lambda x:print(x[0],"=>",x[1]),l)) print to stdout and return junk
 
@TùxCräftîñg why?
 
why what?
 
@TùxCräftîñg why print to stdout and return junk?
 
1:38 PM
because i think printing to stdout is shorter
and this return a list of None
 
CMC: Write a program that generates a random CMC.
 
I don't think so
 
@DrGreenEggsandIronMan Test cases please
 
@LeakyNun lambda l:"\n".join(map(lambda x:"%s => %s"%(x[0],x[1]),l)) ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
Uh, there's no input, so I don't see how test cases are applicable
 
.____________.
 
@TùxCräftîñg What about " => ".join?
 
>>> f=lambda l:"\n".join(map(lambda x:" => ".join(x),l))
>>> f([[1, "1"], [10, "A"], [16, "10"]])
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <lambda>
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <lambda>
TypeError: sequence item 0: expected str instance, int found
 
@LeakyNun CMC: 4
 
@DrGreenEggsandIronMan Pyth, 19 bytes: L&>b1hy.lb)y3814280
 
1:41 PM
@DrGreenEggsandIronMan Jelly, 1 byte 4
 
@TùxCräftîñg lambda l:"\n".join(map(" => ".join,(map(str,x)),l))
 
@LeakyNun outgolfed by jelly
 
@TùxCräftîñg let's generate 4 in interesting langauges
 
@LeakyNun dont work
 
@LeakyNun that's one of the most ungolfy pyth answers I've ever seen.
 
1:43 PM
@DrGreenEggsandIronMan Brainfuck, 14 bytes: -[>+<-----]>+.
 
brainfuck is shorter than pyth?
 
@DrGreenEggsandIronMan That's the super-logarithm of 3814280
 
0000000: 2839                                              (9

Size   : 2 byte(s)
@DrGreenEggsandIronMan outgolfed
rekt
 
Actually, (()()()()) is shorter but less interesting.
 
1:45 PM
@DrGreenEggsandIronMan try to do the square root of 16
 
In brain-flak? No thanks
That'll probably be like 400 bytes.
 
@DrGreenEggsandIronMan no shit sherlock
 
The shortest integer division program is over 1000.
 
just square root of perfect squares
 
Still.... pass
 
1:47 PM
@DrGreenEggsandIronMan alright
 
@TùxCräftîñg ninja'd
3 mins ago, by Leaky Nun
@DrGreenEggsandIronMan outgolfed
 
@DrGreenEggsandIronMan it process the square root of 16 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
@TùxCräftîñg Think you could write multiplication without referring to the existing multiplication program on the github page?
You should try it
 
1:51 PM
@DrGreenEggsandIronMan By the way, the number of valid programs of length 2n is A000108(n)×A000302(n).
 
@DrGreenEggsandIronMan seem as easy as BF
if not more
 
Promise I didn't look
wow, it's so much longer than the existing program
 
huh nvm
this language COME FROM hell
 
@DrGreenEggsandIronMan By the way, the last 6 bytes in the program in Github is useless
 
Pops the other stack and returns.
@LeakyNun depends. If you just want to multiply, then yes, but if you want multiply without side-effects (add part of a larger program) then they're not.
 
2:03 PM
> Here are some full programs that do interesting things.
 
This seems like it has at least one golf/fastest-code opportunity in it:
19
Q: The Knight and the Maze 2

hexominoI've decided to make another knight and maze puzzle. I felt like I rushed the last one here because I thought of the idea right before the end of maze fortnight and wanted to submit something in time. This time I've put a bit more effort in order to try and make the maze a bit more difficult. I...

 
There's this really great joke about non-constructive proofs.
11
 
Is there a such thing as a destructive proof?
 
@PhiNotPi no, but there are non-constructive proofs
 
@flawr PostgreSQL database of The Nineteenth Byte messages. I want to expand to other rooms eventually, but I'd have to figure out something like SEDE's site selector.
 
2:11 PM
@Poke Actually, I think "conjugation" is when you change a word according to the subject, while "declension" is when you change a word according to its role in the sentence.
And in most of the languages, verbs change according to the subject while nouns and adjectives change according to their role in the sentence, which is why "conjugation" usually refers to verbs and "declension" usually refers to nouns/adjectives.
 
@El'endiaStarman I feel like it might be a bad idea to give most 19th byte messages... more of an internet presence than they already have.
 
Declension is typically for nouns (and adjectives) based on subject/object type
Conjugation applies to verbs based on the subject and tense.
 
@hexafraction For example, in Korean, you actually conjugate an adjective.
 
Is that a terminology difference, or an actual fundamental difference in grammatical structure?
 
@hexafraction scroll up
 
2:13 PM
How far?
 
2 mins ago, by Leaky Nun
@Poke Actually, I think "conjugation" is when you change a word according to the subject, while "declension" is when you change a word according to its role in the sentence.
1 min ago, by Leaky Nun
And in most of the languages, verbs change according to the subject while nouns and adjectives change according to their role in the sentence, which is why "conjugation" usually refers to verbs and "declension" usually refers to nouns/adjectives.
 
So the adjective changes based on subject? Is that only if that adjective directly modifies that subject?
 
@PhiNotPi Why's that? It's all public.
 
@hexafraction In Korean, you don't conjugate based on the person (first-person etc), but instead you conjugate based on the rank of the person (informal casual vs informal polite vs formal polite)
 
It's protected by a difficult to use search tool
 
2:15 PM
And there's a search functionality already. (Which, admittedly, isn't as powerful as SQL.)
 
@El'endiaStarman It's called "saving face through obscurity"
 
@hexafraction and it's so complicated that I would be lying if I said I understand it fully.
 
Yeah, no.
 
2:17 PM
@MartinEnder I love this room so much. If I were to tell that joke with one my friends IRL, nobody would appreciate it.
This whole room is the epitome of nerdy, and it's beautiful.
5
 
15
A: Did Einstein say "if you can't explain it simply you don't understand it well enough"?

HappySpoonThe quote "An alleged scientific discovery has no merit unless it can be explained to a barmaid." is popularly attributed to Lord Rutherford of Nelson in as stated in Einstein, the Man and His Achievement By G. J. Whitrow, Dover Press 1973. Einstein is unlikely to have said it since his theory o...

 
@mınxomaτ You must be fun at parties
in Mathematics, 1 min ago, by Leaky Nun
People
in Mathematics, 1 min ago, by Leaky Nun
what is the name of this theorem?
in Mathematics, 1 min ago, by Leaky Nun
$\dbinom{kp}{p}\equiv k\mbox{ (mod }p^3\mbox{)}$
 
That sort of attention to detail makes a party more fun from my point of view
 
in Mathematics, 59 secs ago, by Leaky Nun
I may have recalled it incorrectly
 
@LuisMendo Done.
 
2:20 PM
@Dennis PR sesos
 
@PhiNotPi Would it help if it were password protected?
 
I love this from the linked question: As Einstein himself once said, "73% of Einstein quotes are misattributed."
 
@LeakyNun Yes, I saw. Still have to test it and figure out a way not to break existing Sesos answers...
 
@Dennis Eh, I tested it a bit, though it may still have other bugs
@Dennis just declare it as v.2
 
Back compatibility is for other people
 
2:32 PM
@El'endiaStarman It probably doesn't matter too much.
 
i am trying to create a lambda calculus esolang with a malbolge-like encoder
 
we will pray for your soul.
 
@MartinEnder For which soul? XD
 
the implementation is easy...
but printing a letter is impossible
also the language is called Hellambda
 
@PhiNotPi Whether it's password protected, or the issue of making the contents of TNB more accessible?
 
2:39 PM
@TùxCräftîñg I first thought this was some sort of portmanteau of Helka Homba
 
@El'endiaStarman Probably both.
 
the only way i see to write a letter is ugly bruteforcing ._.
 
@TùxCräftîñg Isn't that how people wrote letters in the days before computers?
 
2:42 PM
Seriously though, I thought Malbolge programs were essentially found by brute-forcing.
 
yes but here the encoder is a 2-state automaton that bitshift and invert
 
user214599
Hey guys
 
In unrelated news, I did in fact upgrade to Win10 last night, mere hours before the deadline.
 
user214599
Especially @Tux
 
user214599
2:45 PM
I found this on Wolfram Alpha:
 
user214599
 
user214599
:O
 
user214599
@Tux ^^
 
@PhiNotPi How do you like it so far?
 
2:46 PM
^
 
(Also, right-click on the Start button!)
 
@El'endiaStarman What does it do? I have Win10 but never tried that
 
@LegionMammal978 .....TRY IT RIGHT NOW.
 
user214599
I like the fact I do not need to install ubuntu to get the cool bash thing. because microsoft bashed bash into Win10
 
It seems pretty decent. I spent some time messing around with all the settings (disabling ad tracking, etc.).
 
user214599
2:51 PM
Oh wait I found this right now
 
user214599
 
@El'endiaStarman What does it do? :D
 
user214599
@zyabin101 JUST! DO IT!! YES YOU CAN!!
 
user214599
;_; I don't have cortana since I am in korea
 
@MatthewRoh I don't have Windows 10 D:
 
\o/
 
trying to bruteforc a program to write H
 
user214599
@El'endiaStarman It was there since Win8
 
That's perhaps one of the most useful things for me in Win 10. Quick and easy access to all the useful stuff.
 
@El'endiaStarman How do you not have the search bar on the bottom?
 
user214599
2:54 PM
@PhiNotPi He have hidden it
 
(It takes up a bunch of screen space and I want to get rid of it). Edit: fixed it
 
@PhiNotPi Right-click task bar > Search > Hidden
 
i have removed it but i dont remebember how ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
user214599
@El'endiaStarman Or "Show icon"
 
@MatthewRoh It keeps the icon.
I think.
 
2:56 PM
I prefer to just hit the Windows key and start typing for search. No search icon needed.
 
user214599
@TùxCräftîñg TaxCrufting removed it when you were not home
 
ಠ_ಠ
 
0
Q: Verify Wolstenholme's theorem

Leaky NunDefinition Wolstenholme's theorem states that: where a and b are positive integers and p is prime. Task To verify that, you will be given three inputs: a, b, p, where a and b are positive integers and p is prime. Compute: Specs Since: You can assume that 2b <= a Testcases a b p ...

 
lambda x: lambda y: lambda z: z(y)(x)
this is the S combinator, right?
 
0
Q: Verify Wolstenholme's theorem

Leaky NunDefinition Wolstenholme's theorem states that: where a and b are positive integers and p is prime. Task To verify that, you will be given three inputs: a, b, p, where a and b are positive integers and p is prime. Compute: Specs Since: You can assume that 2b <= a Testcases a b p ...

 
3:03 PM
@NewMainPosts ninja'd
 
No, you need z(y(x))(x) IIRC
 
@Dennis Thank you! And good morning!
 
@Zgarb Ah, you're here
 
wikipedia says
Sxyz = xz(yz)
 
3:04 PM
^^^^ Adventures of a cat napping on a laptop.
 
@TùxCräftîñg Can't you use λ?
 
@TùxCräftîñg Oh ok, I was wrong then
 
@LeakyNun i am using python
 
@TùxCräftîñg then use coconut
 
@LeakyNun Sporadically, yes.
 
3:05 PM
@Zgarb alright
 
for now the code of the interpreter and the bruteforcer
import random, sys

class Hellambda:
        def __init__(self, code):
                self.state = 0
                self.code = list(map(ord, code))
                self.i = 0
        def next(self):
                c = self.code[self.i]
                self.i += 1
                return c
        def hell(self):
                if self.state == 0:
                        self.code[self.i - 1] >>= 2
                        self.code[self.i - 1] ^= 0xFF
                else:
                        self.code[self.i - 1] <<= 1
 
@TùxCräftîñg Firstly you have to make anything callable
 
because IIRC in lambda calculus, 1 2 evaulates to 1
it is effectively 1(2)
where 1 is a constant function
 
so
if c == 1:
                        self.i += 1
                        self.hell()
                        self.i -= 1
                        c = self.next()
                        def f(x):
                                print(c, end="")
is better
also it print less garbage in my console.
 
user214599
3:11 PM
I'm making a challenge about (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
 
Procedural generation from a single example by wave function collapse (soon on github). https://t.co/m6mte3Qq9k
2
 
(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
 
user214599
What happens if the guy flipped the flipped table?
 
@MatthewRoh the universe would collapse
 
user214599
(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡=============
^ Firing lasers with a flip of a hand
 
3:16 PM
@MatthewRoh naemunjereul hasipsio
hasipsiyo*
 
user214599
@Tux How to go to space: attempt to flip yourself
 
user214599
@Leaky Nope, I can't understand it
 
user214599
@R.K Hi
 
user214599
@Downgoat BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
 
@MatthewRoh 내문제를 하십시요
 
3:20 PM
@Downgoat baaaaaa baaaaaa bleet
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

flawrBinomial Coefficient mathcode-golf I didn't find this challenge before but I can't really believe that it hasn't already been posted: Given two nonnegative integers n,k, return the binomial coefficient c(n,k).

 
just look at the commit message
seriously if someone write a hello world program he is the king of the world
brb (60% of chance this mean in a long time)
 
@MartinEnder Niiice
 
@Doorknob I have thing to report about your fine black theme for SE. LaTeX looks like carp at the moment. Aliasing all over the place.
 
@Sherlock9 do my challenge
 
3:28 PM
Was looking at it
That's where I saw the LaTeX problem
 
@Sherlock9 ?
 
Doorknob has this custom dark theme for SE
I have been using it
 
@Sherlock9 lol
 
It's not complete yet. I was filing a bug report about how it and LaTeX do not currently mix
@LeakyNun CSS theme, you goof :P
 
@Sherlock9 just do it already
 
3:31 PM
I keep replying to you! Let me read :P
 
user214599
0
Q: Flip a string, not a table

Matthew RohThere is a popular Text face meme in the internet. it is (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻ The guy changed his mind, he decided not to flip a table, but a string. (idk why, meh) (the fun thing is: the string could be the table itself) Specs The Inputted text will only have characters included in the chart Exam...

 
user214599
My finished challenge :)
 
@MatthewRoh Doesn't the headline "Examples" imply plural? :)
 
@MartinEnder Woooaaahhh....how does this work?!
 
@El'endiaStarman no clue. I guess we'll have to monitor that twitter account for the release on github :D
(or the github account)
 
3:36 PM
@MartinEnder I'll be waiting for a blog post. I don't really like learning about algorithms from code...
 
well I'm hoping there'll be some info in the readme or whatever
 
It looks kind of like a procedural room generator. Like a roguelike game would have
Ah, it is a procedural generator. Should read the tweet as well as watch the video :D
 
In a reply tweet he mentioned this:
Belief propagation, also known as sum-product message passing, is a message passing algorithm for performing inference on graphical models, such as Bayesian networks and Markov random fields. It calculates the marginal distribution for each unobserved node, conditional on any observed nodes. Belief propagation is commonly used in artificial intelligence and information theory and has demonstrated empirical success in numerous applications including low-density parity-check codes, turbo codes, free energy approximation, and satisfiability. The algorithm was first proposed by Judea Pearl in 1982...
 
@Sherlock9 Do you want to share something with the Remaining Bytes, I'm waiting >_>
 
Not at the moment, sorry
Trying to work on golfing answers for Leaky Nun's question
 
3:46 PM
what is that wizardry generation machine
 
@RohanJhunjhunwala what?
 
Procedural generation from a single example by wave function collapse (soon on github). https://t.co/m6mte3Qq9k
its magical
 
@MartinEnder @El'endiaStarman Found the GitHub release: github.com/mxgmn/ConvChain
 
@Leaky Nun, are you the one with the 500 rep bounty?
 
@RohanJhunjhunwala yes
 
3:47 PM
Or one of them, anyway
 
@Sherlock9 I don't think that's the same thing
 
@Leaky Nun are multiple languages being uused in one submission ok?
 
the tweet is from yesterday
 
Ah, perhaps not
 
that github repo is a few months old
 
3:47 PM
@RohanJhunjhunwala why would you need to have multiple languages in one submission when you can submit many times?
 
the tweet might be an upcoming update of that repo though
 
@Leaky Nun the 16 logic gate question
 
@LeakyNun He means for the logic gate question
 
like does each function have to be the same language
 
@RohanJhunjhunwala of course
 
3:48 PM
I figured xD
 
why isn't this meta'd already
 
Because your question is unique in that regard?
 
I was going to use a null submission in C or Javascript for the false question and a Stuck submission for true (empty gprogram prints Hello, World!!)
 
because technically your challenge is a multi-part challenge is only borderline acceptable by meta consensus
(and that problem only comes up for multi-part challenge)
 
That would have given me 16 bytes for 14 gates :)
 
3:50 PM
@MartinEnder never mind, ich hab' nichts gesagt
 
and then I could put a cat program in the "cat" languae for the or part (empty program 0 bytes)
16 bytes for 13 gates, and just rob parts of the APL answer xD
:( too bad the loophole is closed
 
@RohanJhunjhunwala why use a loophole knowing that it is a loophole?
 
@Leaky Nun idk, thats why I waited to ask you.
it was worth a shot for even the 1% chance that it was allowed
 
@zyabin101 Actually, TRB may work better less as a second chat, and more as a place where PPCG people can share stuff they may not want on the public transcript. Shareable links to Dropbox/Google Drive, their email addresses and so on
Just a thought
 
oh crap xD
i posted a link to g drive on some chat xD
 
3:55 PM
0
Q: Print a Tabula Recta!

George GibsonPrint a Tabula Recta! The Tabula Recta (sometimes called a 'Vigenere Table'), was created by Johannes Trithemius, and has been used in several ciphers, including all variants of Bellaso's Vigenere cipher and the Trithemius cipher. It looks like this: ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ BCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQR...

 
@RohanJhunjhunwala Well, as long as that link doesn't go to some sensitive information or something, it should be okay
 
@Sherlock9 You may share that thought on TRB :3
 
Will do
Oh hey guys
I was thinking of making a Gmail account that you guys can send stuff to without my divulging my personal email address
ppcg.sherlock9, ppcgsherlock9, sherlock9.ppcg, or sherlock9ppcg?
Should I make a strawpoll?
 
@Sherlock9 Sherlock9SE.
 
4:01 PM
Sherlock9PPCG
Is winning.
86%
 
I should have also put in an "Other" option
Ah well
sherlock9.ppcg@gmail.com it is
I like the "." as a separator
 
@Sherlock9 I actually just recently did the same thing.
 
Some browser ideas:
Google Firefox
Google Explorer
Mozilla Chrome
Mozilla Explorer
Microsoft Chrome
Microsoft Firefox
 
Mozilla Chrome sounds awesome
 
4:15 PM
^
 
@mınxomaτ Right, but I like the dot for aesthetic reasons
 
@Sherlock9 Are you going to share the thought on TRB? :3
 
@mınxomaτ huh interesting. My personal email has a dot, and now I feel like an idiot.
 
Yeah, I was fiddling with Google at the time, but I can do it now
 
back
halpmyspacebaris borked
wtf this work some times but other times this dont work
nobody have tried programming in hellambda?
 
4:28 PM
@TùxCräftîñg How to run it?
 
@zyabin101 clone it and run python hellambda.py mycoolfile.hlb
 
0
A: Print a Tabula Recta!

Leaky NunJ, 15 bytes u:65+26|+/~i.26 Online interpreter. u:65+26|+/~i.26 i.26 creates vector [0 1 2 ... 25] +/~ builds an addition table with itself 26| modulo 26 to every element 65+ add 65 to every element u: convert every element from...

no love for J
 
@LeakyNun s/no/some/ :D
 
@LeakyNun upvote for you
 
@zyabin101 благодаря
@TùxCräftîñg merci
 
4:32 PM
if anyone is masochist interested here is my new esolang: github.com/tuxcrafting/hellambda
 
@TùxCräftîñg example program please
 
@LeakyNun its a joke?
 
@TùxCräftîñg ??
 
just look at the function hell in hellambda.py
 
@TùxCräftîñg I don't get it
 
4:37 PM
the encoder is a finite state automaton playing with bitshift and xors
 
Tux made a language that is like Malbolge meets lambda calculus
3
I don't believe example programs will be ready any time soon
 
strawpoll.me/10871656 Should I be more active on PPCG?
 
@LeakyNun Why did you edit your challenge to invalidate answers? There doesn't seem to be a good reason for it...
(Unless I'm missing something.)
 
@Dennis The story is too long
 
How can Weasel be winning?
 
4:50 PM
forgive me for concealing
Wait, suddenly we can use lowercase instead of uppercase.
 
@TùxCräftîñg How the hellifying works?
 
which means... golfing!!
 
@GeorgeGibson the answer to that question is always yes
 
Can we use lowercase instead of uppercase? — muddyfish 10 mins ago
@muddyfish Yeah, I guess so. — George Gibson 6 mins ago
 
(Decoding the program)
 
4:51 PM
@Dennis Which challenge?
 
@Adnan fibonacci-orial
 
@zyabin101 it's a 2 state automaton: state 1, the current cell is rightshifted by 2 and inverted and switch to state 2, state 2, the current cell is left-shifted by 1 and inverted and switch to state 1
 
What was the change?
 
@Adnan I originally said programs can overflow
now I said they can't
 
normally, we allow overflow for languages such as javascript
 
4:53 PM
@Adnan not when we need to time it
 
@TùxCräftîñg And when that happens?
 
@zyabin101 after executing a command
 
I also don't see why you would need a time restriction on that
There aren't really a lot of approaches for that challenge, so it just mostly depends on the language you choose
 
@Adnan to avoid exponential recursion
 
i like recursion
 

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