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5:12 PM
 
5:23 PM
Most likely going to post this later today:
3
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

GamrCorpsRandom Physics Golf #1: Net Gravitational Force code-golf math Introduction to the Series Every week or so I will be posting a physics challenge. My goal here is to design challenges that in the end, teach some people some physics. Overall, the challenges will be very basic with little informat...

any suggestions?
 
5:35 PM
1
Q: Golf a Compute interpreter

DenkerAffeIntroduction Compute is a esoteric joke language. From the esolangs entry: Compute has no required syntax and has the power to solve any and all problems. It is smart enough to interpret any human language (English, Spanish, Latin, etc), any programming language (C++, Java, brainfuck, ...

 
@mınxomaτ yes, why?
 
Well, we don't need a program to tell us when we're going to graduate. We already know that it's the 26th. — Doorknob ♦ 2 mins ago
^ Thank you for this :D
 
Yeah, can't believe some people still haven't heard the news.
2
 
Not everyone checks both metas as often as they should.
 
5:53 PM
How do I post an image from imgur here and get more than a hyperlink?
 
wait, I need to edit the image a bit more
 
Aww, don't get rid of the really-hastily-edited look ;)
 
user image
12
The new logo!
:D
 
ಠ_ಠ
 
6:03 PM
\_/
 
Is imgur super slow for anyone else?
I've been waiting for 5 minutes and I still can't see my own avatar. >_>
 
@AlexA. I'm pretty sure I've heard it, but I can't listen to it right now.
 
0
Q: Can we get a custom Tour page?

Martin BüttnerThis feature request is related to PPCG not being a Q&A site. The most important part of the onboarding experience for new users (especially those who don't arrive via other sites from the network) is the tour page. Moderators can customise the first paragraph and a few details in the right colu...

 
(ಠ_ಠ)
 `X´
 
@Doorknob Does that mean you can't see my proposed logo?
 
6:08 PM
No, I can see that. It's just some images.
 
@MartinBüttner :D
 
I'm failing to monospace it...
 
... the image that I just posted isn't even showing for me.
 
@Doorknob nvm I fixed that issue. Hence my ubuntu flipping on the starboard.
 
huh. I can see it.
 
6:09 PM
@mınxomaτ oh, haha, okay
 
@GraceNote Is there any news you can tell us about the codegolf.se graduation issue? If it helps, our Area 51 stats are now all rated as "excellent".
 
I'm sure they would have if there were any news.
 
^
 
If I worked at SE, I'd probably be less likely to spend time on a site if their users kept annoying me with pings. Just sayin'. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
Every time you ping Grace Note graduation is set back a month
7
 
6:14 PM
@quartata They have to come up with new ways of "not quite" graduating.
 
I personally do not see what the issue with design-independent graduation is.
I think it's fine
 
@Martin @Dennis @Doorknob @quartata Have you guys never had experiences with companies/customer service where you are kind of just forgotten about? Not necessarily on purpose, but somehow your call/request/appointment slips through the cracks and they don't respond? Idk if that's what's happening here with Grace Note/SE but I'd rather be a little annoying and have the problem solved than be completely placid and have to wait who knows how long.
 
Sure, that happens, but I probably wouldn't assume that's the case before a month has passed, not a week.
(Haha, Doorknob called someone "young".)
 
<_<
Just pretend the part at the bottom isn't there
 
6:29 PM
@MartinBüttner Ok. But at least one CM did know of the issue over a month ago, and did not necessarily do anything about it besides glance at our A51 page. (And did not respond to follow up comments.)
 
hahaha
 
@Calvin'sHobbies You do have to keep in mind that there are 150 other SE sites they have to worry about. We're a low priority at best.
Furthermore I definitely think we should not be graduating yet. We have not resolved pop cons, for one.
 
@quartata Alright, but we're never going to raise our priority by doing nothing. Squeaky wheels get the grease.
 
@Calvin'sHobbies You ping quartatertots and the other mods but not me? ;-;
 
6:40 PM
You have to complain first to get pinged.
 
Complain about what?
 
@quartata You mean like when the pop-con tag is strictly valid? (the "guidelines" here: meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/8244/26997)
 
@AlexA. you being a bird brain
 
:/
 
6:44 PM
@AlexA. I pinged Grace Note again. Many people seem to think it's inappropriate.
 
does anyone know the firefox keyboard shortcut for switching language?
or equivalent of "ctrl+shift (en) (De"
 
alt+shift?
фыва
yeah
 
alt shift what?
 
I think alt+shift cycles through
 
is that at system level?
 
6:45 PM
ah yeah sorry
 
do I need to do something specific to enable it?
 
@Calvin'sHobbies I don't think it's inappropriate so much as unnecessary. Then again, I'm of the opinion that they'll get back to us as soon as they figure out why we hadn't triggered their eligibility flag.
 
it cycles the keyboards you have enabled on windows
 
I've seen a lot of communities complain about a lack of transparency and communication from Stack Exchange.
 
for the active window
 
6:46 PM
And I agree, I think they could do better in that regard.
But I also trust them to get back to us when the time is right.
 
@Calvin'sHobbies Yes that post about popcons
 
So I won't complain about you pinging Grace Note, but I also don't advocate it.
 
Along with all the previous ones
 
@AlexA. I do want to believe that, I'd just rather play it safe
 
@AlexA. You don't advocado it?
 
6:49 PM
@Calvin'sHobbies And I think that's fair. But I'll say again, I won't complain about you doing it but I also don't avocado it.
I do think there are issues that should be sorted out prior to graduation though.
 
@quartata Is the "if this has a more natural win-condition tag then it shouldn't be a pop-con" a good enough guideline? (in your opinion, at least)
 
For example, everything on Martin's "we're not a Q&A site" post.
 
No. We need to figure out what makes a pop con objective or subjective.
 
@Calvin'sHobbies It's a little vague
 
Either that or nuke it
 
6:51 PM
It's a good sentence to have in there though
 
@AlexA. Seems like a lot of that stuff wouldn't happen except during a graduation redesign (I don't see them customizing a bunch of beta's defaults)
 
@Calvin'sHobbies I've spoken with them and they said they can do it independently of graduation.
 
Really? hmm
 
What they can and cannot change is dependent on the existing software; I doubt they'd go through too much trouble to accomodate our edit requests.
 
@quartata nuke the whole tag?
 
6:56 PM
Yes. Honestly I feel like that wouldn't be as drastic of a change as you might think; we haven't had any successful pop cons in a year and the good ones can be historically locked.
 
@quartata You were the one who suggested we unconditionally keep the tag. >_>
 
I'm not saying we should do it just that it isn't absurd
 
@quartata I recall seeing a meta post where "objective pop-con" is argued to mean judging the code rather than the output. (Kinda vague still, but it's a start.)
 
I've been thinking about it and I do think that if we cannot fix it we should put it out of its misery
@Calvin'sHobbies Hmm, I like that. Link?
 
6:59 PM
12
Q: Voting by implementation vs. output

Calvin's HobbiesI want to open a discussion about this recent highly-popular question that has been closed and reopened a few times: Animation of Code Golf. The turbulence of that question and similar past questions is clearly related to the fact that there is disagreement on whether "art contests" can be progr...

^ that I guess
:O I asked it :P
 
lol
 
The thing is, people vote how they want to vote. We can recommend they vote based on a certain set of criteria, but in the end, they'll do what they please.
 
His point is that if the challenge implies voting by output it is off topic
at least I think
 
7:04 PM
@trichoplax Says it right imo:
> I'm perfectly happy with a question where judging is based purely on the output, provided that the implementation is the reason for that output being appealing or impressive. If the output is incidental to the implementation then I would want the question to be closed.
This means things like images with all colors are valid
 
I never considered that challenge invalid. I actually bookmarked it before I was even a member of the site.
Popularity contests need objective validity criteria. That applies to both the output and the implementation, IMO.
 
I'm still having severe trouble with interpreting Lambda Calculus.
 
If lambda is a constant, take the derivative and you have 0.
Boom. Calculus. Done.
 
I personally think that popularity contests are inherently flawed. You can write a perfect challenge, focused on programming, with a clearly defined task, an objective validity criterion, and clearly established voting guidelines... and people will still vote for whatever the heck they want to.
 
As they do with every other challenge type
 
7:09 PM
Yes, but it doesn't decide the winner in other challenges.
 
@AlexA. And if lambda isn't constant?
In all seriousness, I need help.
 
With KOTHs there's really no reason to vote for any particular submission.
 
@AlexA. Agreed. Challenges like those make this site accessible to people who aren't really interested in implementations. It would be overly stingy and detrimental to ban pop-cons altogether.
 
For the record, I don't think there's a fine line between code golf and art at all.
There is no line.
 
@orlp There is only a circle.
 
7:10 PM
Code golf is an art and a science. It's a nice combination of creativity, abuse, and optimization.
 
@Dennis I see your point, but to be fair, everyone answering a pop cons knows their win chances are at the whim of the masses. Hasn't seemed to slow down many well asked pop-cons.
 
The whole point of code golf is to inspire creativity.
Creativity comes from limitation.
 
A certain kind of creativity stems from limitation.
Though there are plenty of ways to be creative with fewer restrictions.
 
Appreciating creativity is art.
@AlexA. Such as?
 
@Dennis As long as we keep "output the funniest gif", etc. pop cons in check, doesn't do any harm to let people make and compete in good pop cons
 
7:15 PM
I still think some type of challenge where the winner was decided by a panel of judges could work
 
@orlp Consider the image with all colors challenge. There are a lot of creative ways to approach it.
The only restriction is that the output must contain all colors.
 
Does anyone know offhand if the PPCG data dump would have deleted questions in it? I'm guessing no, since they aren't queryable in SEDE :/
 
@AlexA. Which one?
 
@orlp Which one what?
 
Which challenge?
@AlexA. And without this limitation it would not be more creative than just painting in mspaint*
 
7:16 PM
@Geobits Data dump? (anything that you don't need to log in for couldn't have deleted questions if that helps)
 
@orlp Right. There has to be some limitation. Do whatever you want is wildly off topic.
282
Q: Images with all colors

Mark JeronimusSimilar to the images on allrgb.com, Make images where each pixel is a unique color (no color is used twice and no color is missing). Give a program that generates such an image, along with a screenshot or file of the output (upload as PNG). Create the image purely algorithmically. Image must ...

That challenge has not a single downvote. +282/-0.
That's amazing.
 
And now you told Geobits that =P
 
>_>
 
@Calvin'sHobbies Yea, this thing: archive.org/details/stackexchange
 
@AlexA. We need a "sounds with all frequencies" :P
 
7:18 PM
What's that? A popcon with no downvotes?
 
@Calvin'sHobbies Oh god.
blAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAmp
 
A sweep would be nice
 
@Geobits bah! so close :p
 
I've always wanted to use Hz/s in a serious context ^^
 
@AlexA. Come to think of it, a "piano tune with all keys exactly once" might be interesting (though probly not on topic here)
 
7:23 PM
Tattoo guns give a somewhat high hertz per second.
 
An interesting experiment would be to see if voting in pop cons is different if the vote count on each answer cannot be seen.
i.e if an answer already has upvotes does that get it more upvotes
 
I suspect it would change it quite a bit, honestly.
 
@Geobits Never heard one, now I'm curious ^^
 
As long as you also randomize the order shown.
@Roujo hertz -> hurts :P
 
@Geobits Aaaahhh. Heh. =P
 
7:27 PM
How could we organize that?
 
I don't think you could, really. Not without actually modifying the site. A userscript would only be as effective as it's installed base ratio to total voters :/
 
That was the idea behind Contest Mode on reddit - I think it has been put to good use there, although yeah I'm not sure we can have that change here
I turns questions into a very different format than SE's Q&A
 
ooh ooh I know just lock all the answers and have voting done through another site (and put links for voting in the answers)
 
Hmm. I don't think you can lock an answer without locking the question from receiving new answers.
 
7:30 PM
No you can
 
@AlexA. -1 no option for one medium sized one
 
@AlexA. Pretty much unanimous on that one
 
@Doorknob Hah yeah. I might get one eventually but idk.
 
ugh, how do I pick a winner for the bounty on codegolf.stackexchange.com/q/70953/8478 ...
 
@Geobits Medium is subjective. Everything is either big or little. Objectively.
 
7:31 PM
I'm really the only one here right now with a tattoo? You guys suck. Well, or are just too young.
 
@AlexA. I change my mind about what I like way to often to get anything permanent done to my body =P
 
@AlexA. Right. But I don't have "a few" and "some" normally implies more than one either way.
 
can people who have golfed in Python, Perl and/or Haskell tell me how impressive the corresponding answers are?
 
feersum's Python looks pretty good but I'm not the best judge here
 
Speaking of tattoos...
 
7:32 PM
@ETHproductions Think you'll be posting the quine challenge today?
 
Oh yeah, I've seen that
 
No, not that one
 
Today is a day to learn!
 
7:33 PM
I've seen laser removal done. They basically burn the shit out of you to kill the pigment. Over and over again. No thanks ;)
 
@El'endiaStarman Pretty much anything involving a body, filmed in super slo-mo looks pretty gross.
 
Someone here ever got the unix pthreads library working with icc in windows?
 
@MartinBüttner I know all three languages and I can safely tell you the python one is the most impressive
 
quartata being a sock of feersum confirmed.
@quartata thanks ;)
 
@Optimizer Nice. I wonder how big of a pile-up that ended up making ^^
 
@Optimizer ...that must've been a strong headwind.
 
Is there a good rendered-output to SE-markdown tool available for use?
 
@Optimizer Bookmarked, thank you ^^
 
7:43 PM
@El'endiaStarman Nice. I also appreciate the comment someone left regarding the alternative removal technique with the shockwaves that break up the ink rather than the heat.
 
@Liam "Undeleted so that comments are visible" why are those still relevant?
 
Oh dear, the hot dog theme.
 
@Dennis Have you not seen that? It's beautiful.
 
The font should be Comic Sans.
 
7:44 PM
where is it?
 
@MartinBüttner PeterTaylor closed the post as a dupe. The comments show his arguments and my arguments.
 
@Geobits What is your tattoo of?
 
@Geobits Oh, I missed that. You're not.
 
@Doorknob You've tried for thirtee minut and no juic?
 
7:48 PM
@MartinBüttner Hopefully, if it's ready to post.
 
@AlexA. NO JOIC
 
I think it's fine, but maybe wait for someone else to tell you (because I'm also itching to post my GolfScript solution :D)
 
Nice, haha :) Before I posted it in the sandbox, I managed to get one working in JS (kind of right on the line of valid, because working with newlines/new messages in the console is tricky)
Can I get some more opinions on this:
2
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

ETHproductions1-up your average quine code-golf quine A 1-up quine is a program which is very similar to a quine. The one major difference is that instead of printing itself once, when n copies of the code are concatenated, the result prints the code n+1 times. Example If your code is Abc123: Abc123 -> ...

 
@El'endiaStarman I'm not clicking that at work ಠ_ಠ
 
7:55 PM
@KevinW. It's actually completely SFW.
 
@El'endiaStarman ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
@ETHproductions No
 
Or is that just another joke?
Oh
 
Is yolk
 
Has anyone tried to interpret lambda calculus with Retina?
 
7:56 PM
@El'endiaStarman That's so cute. Happiness overload.
 
@Dennis No, I wan't you to prove that each sequence ends. While you're at it, prove the collatz sequence's termination. :P Of course you're allowed to assume it ends. — Seadrus 52 secs ago
o_o
 
@ӍѲꝆΛҐӍΛПҒЦꝆ Has anyone tried to interpret Retina with lambda calculus?
 
@AlexA. I'm serious.
Has it been done?
(Seems sorta feasible, now that I think of it.)
 
0
A: Halloween Golf: The 2spooky4me Challenge!

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'BʀɪᴇɴJolf, 15 bytes Try it here! I forgot about inline string interpolation until after @quartata posted his solution. "¦jspooky¦+2jme " string containing ¦j the input, spooky "spooky" ¦+2j 2 + the input, me and "me" imp...

@quartata
 
@ӍѲꝆΛҐӍΛПҒЦꝆ I can tell you that I haven't done it, which means it's kinda unlikely. :D
It's probably quite doable though.
 
7:59 PM
1 more vote to code golf silver o_________________-o
 
I've only implemented 2-tag systems and Rule 101 to prove Turing-completeness. I still want to implement a Brainfuck interpreter at some point... (although it currently won't be able to support infinite input, nor output in non-terminating programs)
 
@MartinBüttner Oh yeah, I need to ask you: how does one go about transposing input in Retina?
 
Painstakingly.
 
like
aa
bb
cc

to

abc
abc
 
For non-square input it's going to be a massive pain.
I haven't tried.
For square input it's sort of doable with balancing groups.
 
8:01 PM
Oh, okay.
 
Probably still around 60 bytes, easily. Maybe closer to 100.
I talked to randomra about this a couple of days ago.
I'd like to make this easier by providing some sort of built-in, but I don't want it to be a plain "transpose" built-in. I'd rather add a feature that makes it possible in ~10-20 bytes but which is flexible enough to allow for other transformations as well.
 
Maybe "itemize"?
 
ummm? specifics? :P
 
@Optimizer Damn. I don't really like sports but I can appreciate how perfect that is.
The batter made it like two steps if that.
 
8:07 PM
@MartinBüttner Let me guess: 12 bytes?
 
@Dennis yep
haven't found anything that short in CJam (and Fission seems incredibly hard for this one)
 
user image
3
> Her pie hole is a lie hole.
 
@MartinBüttner The shortest CJam I could find was 15 bytes. I don't know Fission very well.
 
I don't think I found something that short in CJam.
My first attempt was 21 and then I switched to GS.
 
8:12 PM
Alright I'm going to post this:
3
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴcode-challenge string Auto BATCH golfer. I love BATCH, despite its shocking lack of functional commands, despite even due to its lack of non-integer support. Why? Because this works: SET var=SET %var% i=0 This would evaluate to: SET var=SET SET i=0 Fantastic, isn't it? I've used this tech...

Any objections?
@Seadrus are generators fine for your juggler challenge?
 
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ yes that's fine
 
dante
 
arigato
 
8:18 PM
Do you mean Dante Alighieri?
 
no
 
The best/worst part: it actually worked as per the IT engineer's advice
 
And then by the time they get back in, the excess gasoline in the motor has ventilated and the car starts! =D
Or something. I'm a programmer, not a mechanic. =P
 
close as "no repro"
 
8:23 PM
Add a workaround to the doc, only to find out that it doesn't work after a while since people are so used to getting out and back in that they do it too fast
 
Is this a good challenge idea? Print the message "Happy Valentine's day, <language name>" exactly, where <language name> is the previous submission's language of choice.
 
Probably too similar to the "Hello World" one I think we've had.
 
It's pr-- yeah, that. Ninja'd. =P
 
People would probably just wait for someone else to post in e.g. C
 
Any ideas as how to make it distinct?
 
8:27 PM
Have it be a polyglot with both languages telling each other happy valentines
Although come to think of it, there was something like this already
 
That's too similar to "I'm not the language you're looking for" iirc
 
We already had that
"This program wasn't written in <abc>, it was made for <xyz>!"
 
Right, that.
 
Maybe, "say happy valentines day to all previous submissions"?
 
maybe we haven't done it, but is it interesting? :/
 
8:32 PM
I for one don't think such a challenge is interesting.
 
@AlexA. Why do "nerds" generally dislike watching sports? I've never loved them but I've realized that part of the appeal could be that (ideally) they're the most "honest" thing on tv (e.g. vs biased news, staged reality shows, fictional sitcoms), and I can respect that.
 
@Calvin'sHobbies Are you calling me a nerd ;-;
 
Are you denying being a nerd?
I'm happily a nerd
 
8:34 PM
I'm cool guy pushes up glasses
@Calvin'sHobbies Sports just don't appeal to me that much. I can appreciate the athletic abilities of the participants and I like it when the Seahawks win things but overall... meh.
 
I generally dislike watching sports because I couldn't possibly choose a team to root for. Maybe nerds are just too rational.
2
 
:D
 
@AlexA. and that's one whole day worth of exercise for you
 
ಠ_ಠ
I go to the gym, thank you very much.
 
you actually don't need to go to the gym to lift your glasses
 
8:38 PM
@Dennis Yeah, I don't usually root for a team in particular, I just like seeing cool plays and awesome moments
 
@Calvin'sHobbies I love football, but I'm from Wisconsin where the Packers are practically a religion
 
Which usually ends up with me cheering for both teams at different moments in the game =P
 
@Optimizer Yeah, day-to-day walking from the fridge to the computer gives that exercise.
 
@Dennis I get that. I use to think "why should I support my home team with such fervor when it's just a random chance that I'm from there?".
 
@Roujo Which makes the whole thing a lot less interesting. I watch football (the kind you play witha ball and your feet) every two years when there's a World or Euro cup, but not even once in between.
 
8:40 PM
But I realize friendly rivalry is ok (e.g. PPCG vs the evil CR :P)
 
hahaha
 
Hello what did I miss
 
We graduated while you were away
We're now CodeFootball.org
 
Codeball
 
@AlexA. If mods keep saying stuff like that people will start believing it ._.
 
8:42 PM
the american football
 
@Calvin'sHobbies :P
 
@Calvin'sHobbies I went to a basketball game last week, and had much fun. I hadn't been to any live sports event since I was 10 or something, and don't really follow any sports either.
 
Thank you for the drunkenness
 
I find American sports pretty entertaining actually, but I don't actively follow any kind of sports.
 

he knows

36 secs ago, 1 second total – 2 messages, 2 users, 0 stars

Bookmarked 6 secs ago by Optimizer

 
8:44 PM
@AlexA. I wasn't drunk.
 
@Zgarb I was just quoting that Finnish sign
 
Oh yeah. :D
I forgot I shared that here.
 
I will remember it for all eternity
 
@MartinBüttner Is cricket televised in Europe? (I've never ever seen it on US TV)
 
Cricket is the weirdest game
 
8:47 PM
"televised"
 
My girlfriend showed me a video of a guy playing a cricket videogame and he said, "I've been playing this for 30 minutes and I still don't understand the controls. Or the sport."
 
@AlexA. sure, weirder that football?
 
Which one?
 
american
 
@Optimizer ?
 
8:47 PM
@Calvin'sHobbies is that a real word?
 
Yes
Something that's aired on television is "televised."
 
@Optimizer The rules of American football are mostly beyond me but cricket is just like "wtf am I watching"
 
@AlexA. only an american will say that. in almost all other countries, you grow up playing it
inches
 
Cricket? Really?
 
8:49 PM
yes
its a street game
 
We have baseball for that
 
Interesting
 
marky is officially the most confused bot. He's never sure of anything
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Fran BorcicDiopter lenses In photography, there are thin lenses that you put in front of a photographic lens to make it behave like a close-up lens. Each of these lenses has an associated diopter value which is a positive integer. If you stack two (or more) of these lenses you get an equivalent of a lens w...

 
8:54 PM
@Optimizer Some might say that it makes him the most wise.
 
@AlexA. good
 

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