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user165474
6:00 AM
lesson learnt: TNB = !PRODUCTIVITY
 
Anonymous
@Adám People will still argue about the vailidity of choices
 
@Mego No matter. 'tis a dupe anyway.
 
TNB keeps having these stupid discussions. My favorite is "But is C really TC???"
 
actually, that question is a perfect example of how to win a popcon: write an answer that obviously works but also obviously has ridiculous side effects that are fairly hard to remove
 
@Phoenix isn't this why most of us stay here? :-D
 
6:02 AM
Didn't say it's a bad thing
 
@ais523 The worse, the better. #PPCG
 
nah, I had a stock answer to the "is C TC?" question way before I joined TNB
 
Anonymous
@Phoenix You almost nerd-sniped me.
 
if you want pointless arguments about C's TCness there are plenty of other places to have them :-D
 
Anonymous
@ais523 cough compsci.se cough
 
6:03 AM
(in many of which it's actually fairly fundamentally ontopic, as opposed to here where it's tangential)
 
C is not a language as per PPCG's definition.
 
Can't see reply targets @mego
 
user165474
2 mins ago, by Phoenix
TNB keeps having these stupid discussions. My favorite is "But is C really TC???"
 
Anonymous
@Phoenix Sorry?
 
I don't know what you replied to
 
Anonymous
6:04 AM
What do you want me to do about that?
 
@LeakyNun don't know. I might lurk but I don't think I'd be generally active. more importantly, why would you invite me to a French chatroom o_O
 
user165474
Exactly what I just did, I guess. Maybe?
 
C is not a language as per PPCG's definition because it's a family of specifications while languages on PPCG are defined by implementation.
 
user165474
:I
 
<Phoenix> Can't see reply targets @mego ← see, I miss IRC's way of doing things, all this fancy stuff with reply linking and the like just serves to increase the number of ways things can break
 
6:05 AM
@MartinEnder when did I invite you to a French chatroom?
 
user165474
(downvotes and VTD's like 5000 answers)
 
I don't see how that would nerd snipe someone considering we bring it up every week or so
 
Anonymous
@JanDvorak Sure, but C (gcc) is, which is what most answers use
 
Which gcc? :-D
 
@LeakyNun sorry, misread my notifications, it may have been someone else
 
6:05 AM
most of our C answers don't even work in compilers other than gcc and clang
 
Anonymous
@Phoenix The TC-ness of C is not something that is brought up every week in here (at least, as far as I've seen)
 
Anonymous
@JanDvorak gcc 6.3.1, chosen for no reason other than the fact that TIO uses that version
 
It uses that version now :-D
 
Fine, every other week. Seriously it happens all the time.
 
And now you've called in another round :-)
 
6:08 AM
Yep
 
user165474
New language idea: "Unspecified". Its implementation is "gives the correct answer to the challenge"
 
Anonymous
@HyperNeutrino Loophole
 
user165474
ik
 
Esolang has tons of variants on that already
 
Also how to implement
 
user165474
6:08 AM
onvm
 
user165474
@Phoenix I don't think it's possible lol
 
Exactly
 
user165474
Hi @Potato44
 
user165474
lol I was joking
 
user165474
(oh wait user can't reply aww)
 
6:09 AM
why does it even show people joining a room if they can't talk in it?
 
Loophole idea: Create a script that indefinitely posts commits of a language where the code is encoded in the version number.
 
Anonymous
@ais523 Why not?
 
because the information is slightly detrimental to the user joining (as other people will find out what they're up to), and no real advantage to anyone else unless they're doing something nefarious
 
@Phoenix Github would kick you out pretty soon
 
Anonymous
@Phoenix If someone is willing to go to that kind of insane effort, I'd rather send attack drones.
 
6:11 AM
53
A: Loopholes that are forbidden by default

jimmy23013Using MetaGolfScript MetaGolfScript is a family of programming languages. For example, the empty program in MetaGolfScript-209180605381204854470575573749277224 prints "Hello, World!". It is similar to using extra command line arguments, where they should also count as characters. And using the ...

already a thing
 
@Phoenix I had a similar idea, a golfing language with a builtin that returned the commit hash of the interpreter used to interpret the golfing language interpreter
so you could say "LoopholeLang, running on Perl 5.14.3-insert long commit hash here"
and use it to hide a bunch of bits somewhere that people don't normally check
 
user165474
tfw you realize you've been listening to the same song on repeat for like an hour
 
Anonymous
@HyperNeutrino Welcome to my brain
 
user165474
lol
 
Anonymous
I constantly have a song (or, more frequently, a repetitive/catchy bit from a song) playing over and over in my head
 
user165474
6:17 AM
I have a song playing on repeat but I'm concentrating on trying to outgolf Leaky Nun in Jelly for a challenge so my brain drowned it out
 
@HyperNeutrino which challenge?
 
user165474
in Jelly Hypertraining, 2 hours ago, by Leaky Nun
J+þ`-*
J=þ`œp€⁸;/€
ǀǿ/€ÆḊZ÷ÆḊ×Ñ
 
oh, good luck with that
 
user165474
thanks, I'll need it :D
 
I've once listened to the Broforce theme for 14 hours straight while working on a project. That's nothing.

(ok, I did eat, but still)
 
user165474
6:21 AM
Public Survey: What's the longest amount of time you've spent working on a programming project without stopping (except for breaks)?
 
too long to keep track of
 
Anonymous
@HyperNeutrino Do naps count as breaks? Does 8 hours of sleep at night count as a break?
 
if you count sleeping and then resuming when I wake up as a break, I know for a fact that I've done at least 3 days, and strongly suspect I've done much more
 
user165474
ok to define break, I mean going to the washroom, eating, going for a walk to prevent brain death, playing pool for a bit to prevent brain death, etc.
 
user165474
My longest was pretty short
 
6:23 AM
36ish hours without sleep. Programming competitions are fun times.
 
user165474
o.o nice
 
Anonymous
@HyperNeutrino That didn't answer my question
 
Anonymous
Well, either of them
 
Longest break was going to a 7-11 for coffee for our team.
 
user165474
@Mego right sorry, definitive answer is if the nap is shorter than like 3 hours or so then sure but otherwise longer it's too long for a break
 
Anonymous
6:25 AM
Then probably 15-ish hours
 
user165474
ah ok
 
To be clear, the competition lasted a year. We just procrastinated. A lot.
 
user165474
:o
 
If you define "fun" as sleeping at your keyboard, sometimes literally...
 
user165474
My longest was about 17 hours; my first hackathon and only so far (virtual hackathon)
 
6:27 AM
3
Q: Make a ;# transpiler

kalsowerusRelated to: Make a ;# interpreter In the above linked challenge the task was to create an interpreter for the esoteric language ;#. The ;# language The language has exactly two commands: ; and # (all other characters are ignored by the interpreter): ;: Increment the accumulator #: Modulo the...

 
Anonymous
23 minutes... That's really late
 
I suggest shooting NMP dead and replacing him with a Smokey clone.
 
user165474
Have NMP watch realtime rather than RSS
 
Anonymous
Eh, we don't really need realtime post notifications
 
Anonymous
Within 15 minutes is fine. Within 30 minutes is still fine (but then we have an excuse to pick on the poor feeds bots, even though it's not their fault).
 
6:33 AM
It totally is their fault...
 
But without real time notifications how will I snipe close votes ;-;
 
user165474
I mean, not realtime as in it updates every realtime update, but like have NMP look at realtime and whenever it sees a question whose ID it hasn't seen before, report it here
 
user165474
Better idea: Have Smokey come here, make the PPCG filter so insane that it will report every single question. Done.
 
Anonymous
@HyperNeutrino .* isn't very insane
 
We probably don't want to dump these to metasmoke, though
 
user165474
6:37 AM
True. Undo may will hate us
 
user165474
@Mego true :P but that will catch answers and edits as well
 
Anonymous
@JanDvorak We can make our own version and call it metasnoke
 
user165474
:I
 
user165474
well i need to go to bed now if I don't want to die (more than usual) tomorrow
 
0
Q: Golf you an anagram for great good!

ArjunThe Task In this challenge, your task is to write some code which outputs one of it's anagram chosen randomly but it should never output itself. Elaboration Given no input, your program should output any one of the anagrams of it's source code. But, your program should never output it's own ...

 
user165474
6:38 AM
@Arjun NMP will take care of that for you
 
It's always so late. :P
 
Anonymous
Please don't steal the bots' thunder. They don't have much thunder, so they need it all.
 
bot's thunder?
 
We need better bots, with more thunder
You know, celtic thunder
 
0
Q: Golf you an anagram for great good!

ArjunThe Task In this challenge, your task is to write some code which outputs one of it's anagram chosen randomly but it should never output itself. Elaboration Given no input, your program should output any one of the anagrams of it's source code. But, your program should never output it's own ...

 
6:41 AM
Here it comes!
 
Anonymous
Can you hear, can you hear the thunder?
 
... or that :-)
 
Should we have regex golf like this?
 
@Arjun Once it's done once it will be overdone in no time
 
But it'll be fun!
 
6:45 AM
there are several regex golf challenges like that. if you want to write a new one, I'd suggest looking at those and seeing if the new challenge brings anything novel to the table.
 
We can set a rule like Only for users with 1k rep or above
 
what.
 
Anonymous
That's a terrible idea. That's possibly the second-worst idea I've ever heard.
 
user165474
What's the worst then?
 
user165474
Actually, if it's worse than that, I'm not sure I even want to know.
 
6:47 AM
Sorry :P
 
Anonymous
@HyperNeutrino "hey what if there was stuff"
 
user165474
oh
 
user165474
lol :P
 
@MartinEnder BTW, I didn't understand what you mean with that?
 
just picking two random lists of words doesn't make a good regex golf. and picking two random lists of words than a previous challenge doesn't mean it's not a duplicate, if the techniques for finding short solutions are exactly the same. you'll want to pick lists with a certain amount of structure that can be exploited and changes the way the challenge needs to be approached.
 
7:14 AM
@ais523 I don't get what you are saying.
Could you elaborate?
 
err, what message are you talking about?
you just said "@ais523" rather than linking to one, and I haven't spoken recently
 
@ais523 The comment that you posted on my post.
 
oh, our current proper quine definition cares about which parts of the input correspond to which parts of the output
if you're asking for the output to be an anagram of the input, you can't tell which part matches which part
 
@ais523 aba is not valid as per the rules defined by me in the post.
 
well, a and b could be multiple characters here
you have to abbreviate heavily when discussing things in comments
because they don't have so much room
 
7:21 AM
@ais523 I really don't understand what you are saying.
:P
 
have you read our current proper quine definition on Meta, plus the followup post?
if not it probably won't make that much sense
 
followup post?
 
28
Q: We need a new proper quine definition

ais523 Note: In this Meta question, it was determined that the correct thing to do if you think an established consensus has become outdated is to post a new question, even if the question would otherwise be considered a duplicate. Background Our current rule for defining a "proper quine" is as fo...

that one
 
@ais523 All I wanted to say by linking that link is that Cheating quines are not allowed.
 
yes, but that's how we define cheating
 
7:26 AM
like HAHA THIS IS TECHNICALLY A QUINE in PHP
 
is 23723 a cheating quine in 7, for example?
it's two literals that each print themselves
but they run in reverse order, so actually they each print each other, so it's allowed
anagram that, and you can't tell which part of the input printed which part of the output, due to the duplicated characters
 
@ais523 What should I do?
 
ignore it, the problem probably won't come up (e.g. 7 has no random number feature)
I'm mostly ranting about PPCG rules being nonsensical more than trying to suggest a fix
 
Haha, that's good!
 
if it does come up then we can debate it
 
7:28 AM
Will you delete your comment, then?
 
actually I'm going to add this to the "we need a new proper quine definition" post, because it needs discussion
and I may as well, the challenge is probably the wrong place for it
 
Does anyone really think that the current Quine definition is good?
 
@ais523 So, you'll delete the comment?
Thanks!
 
I already did
 
Thank you!
:)
BTW, I was wondering whether we should have different threads for esolangs and mainstream languages?
 
7:33 AM
"threads"?
 
Also, "mainstream languages"?
 
Like Cops and Robbers
 
Oh, you meant questions
 
@JanDvorak Used by people for development in real projects
 
What is a real project?
 
7:35 AM
I wrote a domain-specific language specifically for writing optimizer idioms for INTERCAL compilers
I've used that in a serious project (which admittedly was an INTERCAL compiler)
does it count as a mainstream language?
 
We can have a meta post for languages that count as mainstream languages.
 
... and languages will become esoteric or mainstream at the whim of a vote. No, thanks.
 
One can post their language on it and if it gets n number of votes, it qualifies for mainstream language
Okay, probably it's another dumb idea of mine. I should focus on playing Clash of Clans rather than improving the site.
That's where I am good at.
 
classifying languages into eso and non-eso is hard
 
Nah, just git gud at the improving the site thing
 
7:40 AM
you have languages like J and APL, which are definitely seriously intended and are used in industry, but look and behave like golfing languages
then you have languages like Prolog, which look like mainstream languages and don't have much in common with golfing languages, but their semantics are really unusual
 
Then there is INTERCAL, which you wouldn't put on a CV yet sucks at golfing
 
@JanDvorak No, it's actually advertising
 
CMC; given a string matching [ a-zA-Z] print the longest continuous group of non-space characters, assuming there will never be a tie
 
there's this challenge; INTERCAL is famously comparable to most mainstream languages on it
as in, it's worse by only a factor of 2-3, rather than 10-100
 
@ATaco JavaScript (ES6), 50 bytes: s=>s.split` `.reduce((p,c)=>p.length>c.length?p:c)
 
7:43 AM
Ruby: ->s{s.split.max_by &:size}
ties prefer earlier words
 
@ATaco C#, 57 bytes (s)=>s.Split(' ').OrderByDescending(s=>s.Length).First();
 
VSL, (noncompeting): ? split max (? size)
 
No implementation = no language. Sorry.
 
it's a CMC...
 
@JanDvorak Yeah ik
 
7:47 AM
Sure you can mark your entry as non-competing even in a CMC :-P
 
Jelly, 4 bytes. ḲLÐṀ
 
Although I guess you did...
 
@ATaco you can actually do it in 3 bytes: Try it online!
I tried to solve it in my head before looking at your answer, then tried to figure out where the fourth byte was coming from
 
@ais523 -1 prints a number not a word
@ais523 +1 for KLM
 
oh, I misread the question
that would explain it
ḲLṀ is pretty fun as programs go, though
so let's just say the question is wrong, instead
 
7:51 AM
@ais523 you forgot the dot below the K
 
They're basically the same idea
 
there we go
 
One uses the Maximal quick, the other uses the Maximum atom
 
it's 4 or 5 bytes in Brachylog with a very similar algorithm: "split on spaces, order by length, take last element"
 
@ais523 ḲLṀ Airlines...huh?
 
7:52 AM
I can't remember whether split on spaces is 1 or 2 bytes
order by length is 2
take last element is 1
 
It's 3 in RProgN2...
 
I haven't written out the actual characters because Brachylog is a pain to type, I keep having to copy-and-paste from the docs
 
For the split, the program itself is longer
 
8:08 AM
Hmm ... My rep went down by 90 overnight. :\
 
@Shaggy that's happened to a lot of people; an account got suspended for suspicious voting, I lost about 20 rep from that
but also another 90 from posts being deleted at the same time (presumably from that account)
I'm not sure quite what happened there; voting irregularities isn't normally a reason to delete every question a user's ever asked (thus causing every answer on those questions to have its rep contribution set to 0), so I'm guessing there's more going on than is public
 
happened to me too
 
@ais523 Yeah, looks like this being deleted accounts for my missing rep.
 
@ais523 If you use special chars a lot you should use a custom keyboard layout.
 
I use more than one golfing language, though
also quite a few natural languages
also I'm something of a computer nomad; although I often use my own computer, I spent much of my life just using whatever computer happened to be available
 
8:12 AM
@ais523 Solution: Ask for verbose mode
 
@ais523 So create one layout to rule them all. I've got 250 custom assignments on my layout, with room for many hundreds more. How many do you need?
 
@Adám O_o how
 
250 seems low, given that most modern golfing languages have their own 256-char codepages
some way to type raw binary a bit at a time would be really nice for 7
 
actually you can't do that...
a keyboard layout doesn't fit that much
 
alt codes
 
8:15 AM
@ais523 Of which most are printable ascii
 
@JanDvorak yes including those
 
Lost 70 rep last night. this was deleted by Community (?), this by Dennis
 
@steenbergh a lot of people did
 
@Adám ascii is less than half of such a codepage, by definition
 
Would be nice if those posts had a note saying what happened...
 
8:16 AM
I also lost 70 rep overnight
@steenbergh also can you please not link to the posts?
 
Don't forget modifiers: the alphanumeric keyboard covers half of the printable ASCII, shift + alnum is the second half, alt+ctrl is assigned 64 more combinations, alt+ctrl+shift is assigned 64 more.
 
Why not?
 
Aliases should be mnemotechnic.
 
suspended account
 
8:17 AM
does an account merely getting suspended cancel its votes? I'm assuming there has to be a deleted account too
 
there is
 
@EriktheOutgolfer So? I'm not following you ...
 
so I'm guessing that one account got suspended (voting irregularities), and another account (perhaps owned by the same person?) got deleted, and that all the posts by either user got deleted (?)
 
you essentially linked to a suspended account
 
@Adám hmm how do you do this on windows
 
8:18 AM
But what's the problem?
 
account suspensions are public for a reason, otherwise people go around digging up more dirt trying to figure out what happened
 
they're public only during the suspension period
 
@ASCII-only This is on Windows. Using Microsoft Layout Creator 1.4.
 
anyway, it's clear there's more that's going on than is public, and presumably the mods will comment if they have a reason to, and if not, probably not much need to poke
 
@JanDvorak Yeah, but the real trick is to use a few dead keys. With N entries, making one entry into a dead key gives you 2×(N-1) entries.
 
8:21 AM
I'd rather have my keyboard layout double as a normal keyboard
 
this is actually a big advantage of golfing languages with ASCII-inspired codepages; it's easy to figure out which keys the bindings should be on
 
@Adám Oh, thanks!
 
in Jelly, you're going to guess that to type Ḣ, one of the keys involved should be H
(and you can also memorise where ˙ is: in this case, AltGr-Shift-/)
 
On my homebrew keyboard, you use altGr + p to type ů because altGr + u is taken by ú.
 
@JanDvorak How can you say so, with your last name? Also, my keyboard layout is just a superset of a completely stock US layout.
 
8:23 AM
The Dvorak Standard Keyboard is normal.
 
@JanDvorak Ah, I should say that the two maps are AltGr+ and AltGr+Shift+.
 
Yeah, that won't work if you also have to cover Ú and Ů :-)
 
@JanDvorak Just make a dead key for the ring and the acute accent, and you've got them all!
 
ů/Ů is the only Czech letter that uses the ring
 
@JanDvorak åÅ.
 
8:27 AM
We don't use those
 
@JanDvorak Who's we?
 
edited
 
I made some idea changes to EQ8
It's not an equation anymore
its a long javascript snippet made short
First, it withs most objects you need (Ex.Math )
 
yuck
 
err
why?
Should I only with Math?
 
8:32 AM
@ais523 Which languages do you use?
 
@Adám in terms of golfing languages, mostly Jelly and Brachylog
 
@ais523 And natural?
 
Anyways, also it has a one letter input, which I'm thinking of the character `\`
 
more generally, though, I use a huge number of programming languages; I've created well over 20 myself, and there are over 60 in the polyglot
 
But then again, using with as a compiler is better than using with as a normal programmer
 
8:33 AM
if each of those had its own character set, we'd never get anywhere
(note: I also use plenty of languages which aren't in the polyglot, e.g. my day job's in Java, but the polyglot requires me to have at least some level of familiarity with every language there)
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

MayubeConvert Euler to Quaternion Write a program or function that given 3 float inputs representing the Pitch, Roll and Yaw of an Euler Angle in degrees, will output the W, X, Y and Z values of a corresponding Quaternion. The formula for converting the values is as follows, where P is Pitch, R is Ro...

 
This is my first one, Theres also processtack but its kind of stopped development before completion
 
@ais523 "the polyglot"?
 
just generally, knowing a lot of programming languages has been very useful for my jobs
I can be asked to fix something in a random language and will probably know it already, and if not, knowing so many makes it easy to learn
(not to mention that in research compiler development, we're trying to do things that have never been done before, but knowing what has been done before is a useful way to try to get a starting point on the problem)
 
8:52 AM
I have n samples, that together have a total size of s. What is the statistically most accurate way of extrapolating n for a bigger s (s')? s' will always be bigger than s if that matters. The simplest way would be to take the average, but maybe there's a better one.
 
what do you mean by "extrapolating n"?
 
For a bigger constant s', output an approximation of n. Input is a n,s pair for a smaller s
 
but n is the number of samples
oh, I see, you're effectively trying to ask "so far, with my n samples, their total value is s; how many more samples would I need to get samples with a total value of s'?"
I think, at least; could you confirm/deny?
 
Basically. Yes.
 
clearly taking the average isn't ideal
e.g. if n is 0 on average, s' is nonetheless going to be less than infinity if there's any variation in the ns at all
 
8:57 AM
Given n and s, divide s by n, then divide s' by the result? I suppose that'd be taking the average though
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

LeoAlice's ordinal formatting Introduction Alice is a 2-d language by Martin Ender which has two different execution modes, cardinal and ordinal. When the instruction pointer passes through a mirror (either / or \), it switches from one mode to the other one. In this challenge we will focus on or...

 
n > 0
@Mayube It is.
 
well, yes, but looking at the extremes is a good way to show that a particular approach doesn't work
(averaging, in this case)
I guess the correct approach is to try to determine the distribution that the ns come from, and then work out the average number of times you need to add that distribution to itself to get s
the central limit theorem says that the second distribution (of summed ns) is a normal distribution
thus all you'd actually probably need to know with n is the mean and (probably sample, in this case) standard deviation
 
9:14 AM
So I'd change the name of the language since its changed its property
Hmm
What should I name it
Oh I know
'Eval'
 
no.
 
Why not?
 
wat I just realized my laptop has more RAM than my desktop.
I'd better go buy some more RAM right now.
 
@MartinEnder Thanks for the tips!
 
9:29 AM
no problem, thanks for using Alice :) ... let me know if you have any other questions. there's also a separate chatroom for Alice. chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/56891/inside-the-looking-glass
 
0
Q: Help Jarl Olaf in his raids

matthew3rJarl Olaf lives in a beautiful village, Stackholm. In every year he is thinking about raiding a place to get some golden jewelery, food and programmers woman slaves. He is a good person but not the brightest one, so you need to help him decide the next target. He has three targets in his mind: J...

 
Need some more feedback on this sandbox, please.
 
9:51 AM
@feersum Download them
 
10:27 AM
@feersum I would advice the Ram 2000, lots or horsepower for computing!
 
10:47 AM
-2
Q: Make the fastest file deleting code

jeyejowThis is a speed challenge. The goal is to find the fastest way to delete a file in the computer. You can use threads and mapping or whatever strategy you want. I tried this challenge in my classroom the other day, i made in C/C++ and i got a program that would delete a file faster than the OS (w...

 
only one of those four should be the winning criterion...
 
Okx
@EriktheOutgolfer Just one of our daily doses of unclear questions, it's normal ;)
 

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