The Nineteenth Byte

2:03 PM

@MᴀʀsUʟᴛᴏʀ look, like I've said repeatedly, it's nowhere near finished and solely for me right now. Feel free to use it, but don't expect me to help you with anything.

Mᴀʀs Uʟᴛᴏʀ

@Doorknob Would you accept PRs?

Doorknob

to my personal dotfiles repo? No.

Mᴀʀs Uʟᴛᴏʀ

@Doorknob Then what license is the CSS under (if any)? (Is it okay for me to copy, modify and then put it up on GitHub?)

Zgarb

@MartinEnder Hmm, maybe I should. Let's see if it currently works at all.

zyabin101

@Doorknob Too bad, because many of the most popular dotfile publishers on GitHub accept PRs. D:

Doorknob

2:10 PM

@MᴀʀsUʟᴛᴏʀ I don't have a license for my dotfiles. It'll be done when it's done. Until then please stop bothering me about it.

mınxomaτ

@zyabin101 And what exactly does this matter.

Doorknob

@zyabin101 good for them

zyabin101

Dotfiles are meant to be forked, not to be just hosted and contained in a private land.

(Not so private, because the repo is public.)

betseg

I keep my dotfiles at gitlab what now

Mᴀʀs Uʟᴛᴏʀ

@zyabin101 Yeah, but that doesn't mean I'm allowed to modify/copy them ;_;

actually, wait nvm

Nathan Merrill

2:13 PM

@MartinEnder so, while looking through his blog, I found a super interesting algorithm for dungeon generation

so thanks for the reference :)

Martin Ender

link? :)

Nathan Merrill

journal.stuffwithstuff.com/2014/12/21/rooms-and-mazes

er...

that's a different domain

maybe he linked to it?

Martin Ender

hah, I've got stuff with stuff in my feed too

Bob Nystrom's pretty cool

oh I think I've read that post ages ago

TimmyD

@NathanMerrill The pictures there are absolutely mesmerizing.

Nathan Merrill

@TimmyD maze generation always is

TimmyD

2:19 PM

flags as unproductive to a work environment ;-)

Nathan Merrill

I really wish it was possible for me to dynamically produce HTML and change it on the fly while users watch it using Java

(with CSS, of course)

but AFAIK, its only JS that can do that

feersum

I'd be surprised if there's no library for that.

Nathan Merrill

hmm, I found Flying Saucer, but it looks old

still might work though

TimmyD

Hrm. @NathanMerrill Your challenge is complicated. I'm running tests on just the first 100 words (so that it doesn't take forever to run), and I'm finding that the results vary depending upon whether I sort the input by length or not. Hah.

Nathan Merrill

@TimmyD good!

hmmm. So, on flying saucer's user guide, it says "Dynamic changes to the content requires a reload of the document (quick, but noticeable), that is, you can't dynamically change the DOM and see results live"

feersum

2:30 PM

Did you expect something else?

Nathan Merrill

I wasn't entire sure the scope of the project

its definitely a solution, though not the ideal IMO

maybe I could write some local webpage that opens in your browser and JS simply listens for DOM changes from a local server

feersum

I don't know much about CSS but it seems implausible that you could make a small change and somehow magically know to only recalculate a little of it.

Zgarb

@Dennis Could you add Jellyfish to TIO, so people can experiment with it? It's just a Python script that takes a source file, reads from STDIN and prints to STDOUT.

Nathan Merrill

hmmm, you are right that browsers usually rerender the entire page

but they are really fast at it

Martin Ender

@Dennis ping me when you do ^^^ :)

@Zgarb not sure whether we talked about this before. have you considered values/functions that have different values north and west? I guess X is currently the only way to achieve something like that?

Nathan Merrill

2:35 PM

oooh, if I do do it that way, then I could also extend it to over the internet, which means that I could open a stack snippet, and watch the game run in ping-delayed realtime

I'm totally doing it

Zgarb

@MartinEnder You did suggest it, and I half-implemented it at some point, but then I decided that I'd rather keep the syntax simpler. X is not really a function, but a special part of the syntax.

feersum

That's a neat idea, live streaming HTML

Martin Ender

@Zgarb Yeah I realise that, but it lets you achieve the same effect.

Zgarb

@Dennis Oh and BTW, I think you need Python 3 to run Jellyfish.

Martin Ender

I just thought it might be neat to have something like a minmax function which returns min west and max north or something, to sort a pair of arguments.

Zgarb

2:37 PM

That would be cool, or something like divmod.

Martin Ender

currently, you'd probably do something like this:

Xm S
M  S
   2
EE1

Nathan Merrill

oooh, the term is "Server Sent Events"

Zgarb

@MartinEnder Seems about right, except that one S and one E are unnecessary.

Martin Ender

oh right

XmS
M 2
E1

this layout is probably better so you can use this 3x3 block as a unit like some other 1x1 function:

XmS
M
E X2
  1

oh but then you need the additional E and S again

but you get the idea

zyabin101

-*- a = "Hello, World!" -*-

aO

# * * *

-*- a = 123 -*-

aO

# * * *

IO

# * * *

 I
IAO

# * * *

-*- p = 80 -*-

 p
IMO

^ Ideas for yet another 2d lang.

Nathan Merrill

2:48 PM

hey, for an upcoming challenge, I need a bunch of github repos, and I thought it'd be cool to pick them from the community. If you guys could send me your github profile/repo, that'd be great

Martin Ender

I think you a word

probably "KotH"?

Nathan Merrill

nope, not a KoTH, actually :)

feersum

Sounds more like a code challenge to me

Nathan Merrill

yep

Martin Ender

oh right

github.com/m-ender

zyabin101

2:50 PM

@NathanMerrill You may take trending repos, showcases or even awesome repos' links. :P

Nathan Merrill

if its on your profile, I've already got it, BTW

feersum

Do you want smallish ones or huge and complex oneS?

Nathan Merrill

don't really care

mınxomaτ

github.com/minxomat

Dennis

@Zgarb @MartinEnder jellyfish.tryitonline.net

Do you have a program to test it with? I tried the GitHub example, but I'm not sure what kind of input it expects.

Zgarb

2:52 PM

@Dennis Thank you!

@Dennis Seems to work: jellyfish.tryitonline.net/#code=cCsxCiBp&input=Mg

Dennis

I'll take your word for it. :P Glad to see the name stuck. :)

Martin Ender

@Zgarb how much exactly does i read?

Leaky Nun

0

Q: Szekeres's sequence

Definition a(1) = 1 a(2) = 2 a(n) is smallest number k>a(n-1) which avoids any 3-term arithmetic progression in a(1), a(2), ..., a(n-1), k. In other words, a(n) is the smallest number k>a(n-1) such that there does not exist x, y where 0<x<y<n and a(y)-a(x) = k-a(y). Worked out example For n=...

\o/

Now the first 3 newest questions are all mine hahahaha

Zgarb

@MartinEnder It calls the input() function of Python 3, so one line, I guess.

Martin Ender

so the only difference to j is that j needs to be triggered by an argument?

TimmyD

2:57 PM

feature-request (working) bounty bot

Zgarb

@MartinEnder Yes, and you can use j in operators to, say, read a line until a condition is met.

Martin Ender

I see

ugh, division auto-converts to float? :D

Zgarb

I guess so. :P

Martin Ender

fair enough

Zgarb

I didn't put much energy into planning the built-ins.

Martin Ender

2:59 PM

that rectangle counting challenge:

p/*m%*+1
    2Ei

oh wait, there's an increment built-in, isn't there

oh, but it would need a threading operator

Zgarb

@MartinEnder ` does threading.

Martin Ender

yeah, but then it's not shorter any more

Zgarb

Oh right, it's not.

Sherlock9

@Zgarb I haven't been paying much attention to the development of Jellyfish so my questions are: Is it anything like Jelly and is it anything like ><>?

New Main Posts

0

Q: Szekeres's sequence

Definition a(1) = 1 a(2) = 2 a(n) is smallest number k>a(n-1) which avoids any 3-term arithmetic progression in a(1), a(2), ..., a(n-1), k. In other words, a(n) is the smallest number k>a(n-1) such that there does not exist x, y where 0<x<y<n and a(y)-a(x) = k-a(y). Worked out example For n=...

code-golf sequence arithmetic

Martin Ender

3:03 PM

@Sherlock9 not really like either, but both Jelly and Jellyfish are inspired by J ;)

Sherlock9

Ah nuts. I forgot I never got around to learning Jelly. I still have the docs tab open after how many months

Zgarb

@Sherlock9 What Martin said. You could say that it's somewhat like J, and thus, somewhat like Jelly. The functional array programming model is very close to J and Jelly, but the syntax is nothing like anything I've seen.

Which is pretty much why I made it.

Mama Fun Roll

Guys, I can't believe it.

2

A: Print Numbers from 1 to 10

𝔼𝕊𝕄𝕚𝕟, 7 bytes ⩤ 1,Ⅹ Prints out 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 Implicit print, Ⅹ is 10 and ⩤ is range(a, b) so the overall pseudocode is stdout.write(range(1, 10)) Note that, while it is only 5 characters, it still takes up 7 bytes, this is due to the Ⅹ and the ⩤ not being ASCII characters. (Ⅹ ...

Someone actually learned my language!

Sherlock9

Congrats :D

Leaky Nun

Fun fact: his icon means "seven" in Chinese

Martin Ender

3:08 PM

@Zgarb it's definitely one of my all-time favourite syntax ideas :)

Nathan Merrill

@mınxomaτ you have the best commit messages "url","test","err","speed"

mınxomaτ

@NathanMerrill uh where?

Nathan Merrill

github.com/minxomat?tab=activity

mınxomaτ

@NathanMerrill I just see comments and PRs there.

Zgarb

@MartinEnder I like it too. Unfortunately coding the built-ins is a chore...

betseg

3:09 PM

@MamaFunRoll you use Ubuntu font!

Nathan Merrill

@mınxomaτ scroll down

Jun 27 to Jul 3

mınxomaτ

I don't see any commit messages in there.

That's the end.

Nathan Merrill

that's the end on mine

mınxomaτ

Weird.

Nathan Merrill

yeah

mınxomaτ

3:14 PM

Feb 20 at 23:16, by Alex A.

Nice commit messages

I have the best messages around.

New Main Posts

4

Q: Simulate a sock drawer

Background I have a collection of "weekday socks", which are seven pairs of socks labeled by the days of the week. When I wash my socks, they end up in a pile, and I must arrange them into the correct pairs before putting them into the closet. My strategy is to pull one random sock from the pile...

code-golf random

Martin Ender

@Zgarb there is no operator that swaps the arguments of a binary function, is there?

Zgarb

@MartinEnder ~ does that.

Martin Ender

oh, overlooked the unary version

in the meantime, I've found a fork-based solution, which unfortunately is still the same length:

pm%/*[*i
  4  +1

is this a bug or am I misunderstanding how ~ should work? jellyfish.tryitonline.net/…

Nathan Merrill

thanks, all, I think I got enough commits

Zgarb

3:20 PM

@MartinEnder That's a bug, thanks for finding it!

I also haven't done much testing.

Fixed now (hopefully) at GitHub.

@Dennis Could you pull Jellyfish?

Nathan Merrill

a site I use for movies is giving away a year of free movies (67 movies) for inviting 5 people to use their site oO

that seems really abusable

Dennis

@Zgarb Done.

Zgarb

Thanks!

Martin Ender

I find your current selection of built-ins quite amusing :D

Zgarb

They are chosen pretty much based on what felt fun to implement at the moment.

Like I said, you can covert an integer to a base representation (a list like in J), but not back.

flawr

3:28 PM

@VTCAKAVSMoACE another ShadyAsFuck answer =)

zyabin101

@flawr

flawr

@zyabin101 whut?

zyabin101

@flawr You forgot the text in the message with a ping.

But you edited it. =)

flawr

Oh yes, shady as fuck.

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

0_0

mınxomaτ

3:38 PM

uhm

Martin Ender

@Zgarb codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/87432/8478

Zgarb

Ooh!

Nathan Merrill

ok, so I've got an upcoming diff compression challenge. Does it make it more interesting it I require the diffs to be bidirectional?

aka, you store a diff that can transform A to B

however, that diff should also work to transform B to A

zyabin101

Did you see my ideas for a 2d lang? :3

Nathan Merrill

hmmm, no, I don't think it is

Martin Ender

3:48 PM

yes, but they don't mean anything to me if you don't at least try to explain what that jumble of characters means

ven

Congrats on 100k, @MartinEnder :)!

2

Martin Ender

thanks :)

Leaky Nun

@MartinEnder congrats!

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

strawpoll.me/10896418

zyabin101

Now, the moderators should have enough power to build the room afresh.

Martin Ender

3:50 PM

@Zgarb while writing that up I noticed that I have absolutely no clue how to explain a Jellyfish program. the semantics make more sense top-down, but explaining the actual computation is definitely easier bottom-up.

zyabin101

It imploded a few months ago.

Martin Ender

that also got me wondering how one could visualise the program structure

quartata

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan There's only one correct answer to this

I think you meant to provide a choice?

flawr

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan I don't like either.

ven

@MartinEnder btw, Retina's readme still uses your old github username. (I noticed because I work with a local clone, no internet on holidays... Also why I can't PR)

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

3:51 PM

@quartata what do you mean?

quartata

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan Well, coffee is the only right answer. Isn't the point of a poll to provide several choices?

Martin Ender

@ven good catch, thanks. you should be able to update your remote though.

TimmyD

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan Where's the answer for "I dislike hot beverages?"

quartata

@TimmyD Iced coffee and tea are things

TimmyD

Shh

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

3:53 PM

Iced coffee is pretty good.

betseg

I have an idea for a new esoteric programming language. What now?

Zgarb

@MartinEnder Some visualization tool would definitely be helpful in the explanations. The problem is that operators can make the whole thing much more messy, if you want to reuse their results too...

zyabin101

@betseg Share it!

ven

@NathanMerrill feel free to pick from @vendethiel on gh :)

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

I wonder if I should have included an option for soda

Martin Ender

3:54 PM

@Zgarb That's what makes the language so beautiful though :D

Nathan Merrill

@ven will do :)

ven

@MartinEnder no, I'm not able to do that without internet :P. (Using my phone atm)

Martin Ender

you're also not able to send a PR without internet :P

betseg

@zyabin101 it's a 3D language, very similar to Hexagony but uses platonic polyhedra.

zyabin101

:O

ven

3:55 PM

@MartinEnder Well, I've coded a few things on my phone. But fighting github's web editor is a no-no....

TimmyD

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan Or soap ... or peanut butter ... or ... ;-)

ven

(Tho, yes, I can remote set-url without internet, I can't fetch said remote :P)

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

@TimmyD ew and ew.

ven

I've learned APL(though not for golfing), then Pyth, Jelly, CJam, J and Retina. It's amazing because they're all so different. What could be a very different language to learn next? :)

TimmyD

@ven PowerShell is great and does all things. ;-)

Zgarb

4:06 PM

@ven I recommend Haskell.

betseg

@ven Hexagony? Brainfuck?

ven

Those are not golfing languages :p. I know Haskell already and bf as well

Oooh, hexagony looks like an amazing amount of fun

Martin Ender

@ven Labyrinth :)

ven

Labyrinth's a bit like Hexagony, right? In that it's very "position-based"

TimmyD

@ven -1 for changing question requirements after posting the question. :-p

ven

4:07 PM

(Or 2d I guess)

Martin Ender

@ven well yeah they're both 2D. but I think Lab is much less of a headache than Hexagony and much more interesting to program in, in my opinion.

ven

@TimmyD hey, those are pretty much all golfing languages... :P (though J/APL were not designed that way...)

Martin Ender

especially when you're trying to golf things

ven

I'm more interested in the language aspect for now, tbh. But thanks, I'll go that way :)

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

@ven You could learn V. It's extremely different than any language you have ever used, I guarantee it. :)

And it fits your name!

Zgarb

4:10 PM

@ven You could also learn one of the 2D pattern matching languages.

(Veiled self-advertisement.)

ven

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan \o/

betseg

Polyhedragony trying to find names for my language that I'll probably never actually finish.

TimmyD

@betseg Hydra? (poly = many, + dragon)

Martin Ender

@betseg 10/10 very original ;)

ven

@Zgarb thanks!

betseg

4:18 PM

I wish there was a regular polyhedron based on hexagons...

Zgarb

@Dennis That reminds me, could you pull Grime?

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

hexAGONY xD

@Martin Ender have you seen the topology of your language? math.stackexchange.com/questions/53454/wrapped-hexagon-topology

Martin Ender

40

A: What programming languages have been created by PPCG users?

Hexagony Hexagony was created by me, Martin Büttner, in September 2015. As far as I know it is the first two-dimensional programming language which operates on a hexagonal grid (instead of the usual rectangular grid). To make matters worse, opposite edges of the grid wrap around, making the top...

> To make matters worse, opposite edges of the grid wrap around, making the topology of the source code a weird twisted torus.

Dennis

@Zgarb Done.

Zgarb

Thanks!

zyabin101

4:26 PM

:31435331 There is no superscript in chat Markdown.

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

4:36 PM

its great xD

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

0

Q: Long user locations causes the "user page" to display weird

Earlier today, as I was settling into my daily morning routine of "Answer questions on meta while drinking coffee", I saw a strange bug on the user page. There is a huge block of whitespace through the middle of the users page! Link for the curious. I thought this was weird, but when I scroll...

bug users-page location

Lynn

@Dennis That n-.5 is really clever!

I’m surprised randint doesn’t complain.

Python is such a mess…

4

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

:D

import antigravity

try it ^

betseg

4:55 PM

from __future__ import braces

TimmyD

from __dentist__ import braces
while(braces){ridicule=true;pain=true}
if(!braces){teeth=nice}

6

New Main Posts

1

Q: Diff compression

For this challenge, you need to compress a diff. In other words, you need to provide one or more programs that can: Input A and B, and output a diff, C Input A and C, and output B Input B and C, and output A The goal is to make the diff, C, as small as possible. The diff can be anything: a ...

code-challenge compression

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

5:11 PM

could a mod nuke the comments here ^

Nathan Merrill

I'm ok with the first two comments staying

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

ok, well let's just delete the rest :p

Lynn

Can’t you two just delete—yeah.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

nice dash :p do you have a keyboard bind for it or something?

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

@Nathan Merril, but I am unsure what a dif is?

Nathan Merrill

5:15 PM

@Lynn oh, duh. thanks

New Main Posts

0

Q: Move platforms!

The Challenge Given either a string, multiline string, or a two dimensional array, and a positive integer n, output the position of the platforms n turns after the initial position. U, D, R, L are platforms. ^, v, >, < are arrows that change the directions of the platforms. U, D, R, L move...

code-golf string

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

you should set the spec in stone

betseg

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ my Google keyboard has these: - – —

Nathan Merrill

@RohanJhunjhunwala "The diff can be anything: a string, a number, a blob of data"

it literally is a bunch of data used to differentiate between A and B

betseg

Can I use Bash+diffutils?

Lynn

5:16 PM

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Yes~! I try to use Unicode right, and I also like em dashes.

Nathan Merrill

@betseg absolutely

Lynn

@betseg You probably can, but note that it’s not code-golf.

Nathan Merrill

@Lynn it kind of is (as I am including the length of the program in the score as well)

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

ok makes sense

Lynn

Ah, I see.

Marcus S

5:19 PM

Any particularly interesting challenges to try out?

Nathan Merrill

@betseg actually, I'm going to take that back, sorry. There might be a library out there that already does the task I'm specifying. I'm going to not allow builtins that produce diffs

betseg

Only if i had a computer... i don't think i can measure 50 diff files

@NathanMerrill oh ok

@Lynn how do i do the tag thing

Lynn

[tag:code-golf]

betseg

@Lynn thx

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

@NathanMerrill I added in an explaination of a diff. Feel free to accept or reject it

zyabin101

5:28 PM

I'm doing my final attempt for today at building a new OS with SUSE Studio.

When the Live CD is ready, will publish.

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

Building an OS seems fun xD

quartata

Writing a kernel is one of the most unfun things imaginable

zyabin101

@RohanJhunjhunwala Building an OS in SUSE Studio, in your browser, is more fun :D

> 1 build, 306 MB, 1 build running

Steven H.

If only assignments in Python were expressions rather than statements

quartata

@StevenH. Not good for golfing I'll admit but code like x = (y = z) + 3 is horrible

I see stuff like that in C too often

zyabin101

5:34 PM

1) The 1 build is the USB disk raw image, that has to be ddd into a fresh USB disk.

(ddd - applied with dd)

2) 306 MB is the space it uses up on my 15 GB of free space allocated exclusively for build artefacts.

Not artifacts mind you, artefacts.

3) 1 build is running, and it's the Live CD.

It's ongoing for... for... for... checks appliance editor for...

Finally! It's ongoing for nine minutes!

Steven H.

@quartata I see what you mean, yeah. It does mean, however, that what would be i++ in C has to be written in its own line as i+=1, which is not particularly fun when you want to use the changed value later on in the expression.

Dennis

@Lynn Yeah, I was quite surprised too.

Nathan Merrill

@StevenH. not necessarily. you just can't do some_func(i++)

aka, if i++ returned nothing

and only incremented i

(although, that changes what integers mean, and doesn't really make sense in python)

betseg

5:49 PM

func(++i); and func(i++); confuses every newbie

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

OMG i hate pre/postfix abuse xD

betseg

Still better than i+=1\nfunc(i) and func(i)\ni+=1

Nathan Merrill

this is all really about command-query separation

the only problem is queues/stacks

Downgoat

@NathanMerrill in your diff challenge perhaps add code-golf tag as code golfing is part of score?

Nathan Merrill

I don't really want to. The challenge really isn't about golfing your code, and I don't want to emphasize it more than I have to

Downgoat

5:54 PM

Then why not take code golf out of winning criteria?

i dont see why it needs to be there

zyabin101

I found out that the Live CD build is finally finished!

Nathan Merrill

it was the best method I could think of to prevent hardcoding

TùxCräftîñg

halp vim dont support unicode

Nathan Merrill

"don't hardcoding" is really broad, and saying "I should be able to change the test cases and you have the same score" doesn't work either, because the test cases could have a dramatically different size

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

@TùxCräftîñg :se enc=utf8

Also :se guifont=*

If you're on gvim

TùxCräftîñg

5:59 PM

work

betseg

@TùxCräftîñg y u no use doesn't

Downgoat

@NathanMerrill perhaps do what i did with upgoat downgoat and provide three batches of test cases released everyday or after new answers and average the scores from them. Or just say "dont hardcode". I could always just find the checksum of input &length which would still be rather short and i get to hardcode

TùxCräftîñg

work on gvim but not on the terminal version :/

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