The Nineteenth Byte

mınxomaτ

12:00 PM

TL;DR: Please do your job (what Lynn said).

wizzwizz4

I really should...

ArtOfCode

@mınxomaτ cough

wizzwizz4

@zyabin101 @TùxCräftîñg Sorry guys, but I'll have to be the fun police.

ArtOfCode

@wizzwizz4 I... am. ?

ASCII-only

@wizzwizz4 You did click on the link, right?

wizzwizz4

12:02 PM

@ASCII-only ... :-S

mınxomaτ

@ArtOfCode I'm not trying to insult wizz here, just reiterating Lynn's point.

wizzwizz4

Low contast display... :-(

ArtOfCode

@mınxomaτ yep, I know, just make sure your frustration doesn't get to you :)

TùxCräftîñg

good, rmagick dont have docs (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻

zyabin101

@wizzwizz4 It's very bad.

ArtOfCode

12:03 PM

:32671203 nah, just a gentle general caution on frustration

zyabin101

I didn't want that to happen.

mınxomaτ

@zyabin101 You did everything in your power to make it happen.

wizzwizz4

I've just had an idea. Brb.

TùxCräftîñg

nvm it's in the github io

and now rmagick dont want to install yay

mınxomaτ

cc @trichoplax @Doorknob -> (just for the record)

zyabin101

12:06 PM

I have to retreat to searching a normal place where no one hates, is welcoming and normal.

wizzwizz4

chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/46203/tnb-noise-room

@zyabin101 Solution: TNB Noise Room!

Instead of trashing stuff that people don't like, I propose it be moved here unless it's really trashy.

TùxCräftîñg

solution for the ruby imaging problem: decode the image in python and use the data in ruby

wizzwizz4

If it's just trash, it can go to Trash. If it's just idle noisy-noise or off-topic discussion, put it in this new room.

@TùxCräftîñg I was going to suggest that but thought it too complicated.

Why did I think it was too complicated for a seasoned golfer?

TùxCräftîñg

little program in python and a system call in ruby... really complicated

wizzwizz4

Oh.

So, it's my fault all of my cross-language code is so bloated, and not an inherent property of cross-language code.

Huh.

zyabin101

12:12 PM

@wizzwizz4 Nice!

We can chat there and don't be upset :D

wizzwizz4

@zyabin101 If there's anything that people are telling you off about, just ping a friendly mod and ask for it to be moved into there.

Anonymous

@Sherlock9 It's currently not compatible with pypy, but I can make a few minor changes that I've been meaning to make anyway to make it so.

wizzwizz4

You can ping me any time.

zyabin101

okai

ArtOfCode

room owners can also move messages

Anonymous

12:13 PM

@Sherlock9 Bugs? Make an issue with the code on GH and I'll check it out. :)

Sherlock9

@Mego Thanks

@Mego Sure thing

wizzwizz4

@ArtOfCode Thanks! I wasn't really sure about that. Now I know.

ASCII-only

halp idk what to do first

Anonymous

@ASCII-only There needs to be a "none of the above" option

2

TùxCräftîñg

def decodeimg(path)
    f = IO.popen ["python", "pil.py", path]
    arr = eval f.readline.chomp # Image data
    f.close
    arr
end

@wizzwizz4

if your cross-language code is complicated, a thing is wrong

Theraot

12:17 PM

@ASCII-only As suggested, I have added a list of links as suggested, I also explictly mention that solutions in non-programming languages are allowed, in particular in kolmogorov-complexity and fixed output challenges. Also added a note on interactive solutions.

wizzwizz4

@TùxCräftîñg I'm currently trying to use MicroGP. My code is getting complicated and I haven't even started writing it yet.

TùxCräftîñg

wtf

ASCII-only

@Mego fixed

Anonymous

And what about a "decide for yourself" option?

Martin Ender

@ΛεγίωνΜάμμαλϠΟΗʹ the repeated [] for instance

Sherlock9

12:19 PM

I believe they are looking for our "expert opinions"

@Mego Issue created. While you're here, what is Crypto and why does import seriously want to require it?

ASCII-only

@Mego Left that out because that's the same as not answering

ΛεγίωνΜάμμαλϠΟΗʹ

@MartinEnder That's what I was thinking

Anonymous

@Sherlock9 Secrets

ΛεγίωνΜάμμαλϠΟΗʹ

Question: What reference am I missing with consulting the Helix Fossil?

Sherlock9

Alright, what do I have to install to get Seriously to work, then?

ΛεγίωνΜάμμαλϠΟΗʹ

12:26 PM

I know it's Pokemon-related

Sherlock9

@ΛεγίωνΜάμμαλϠΟΗʹ Twitch Plays Pokemon

ΛεγίωνΜάμμαλϠΟΗʹ

oic

Anonymous

@Sherlock9 pip3 install seriously

Anonymous

python3 -m pip install seriously should also work

Sherlock9

I did python -m pip install seriously on Windows. Trying import seriously in Idle afterwards got me the Crypto error

Anonymous

12:28 PM

python by default is Python 2. Seriously is Python 3 only.

Sherlock9

My python, by default, is Python 3.

Anonymous

Oh right I need to add the requirement to the setup script

Sherlock9

Hallelujah :D

We've found the bug

Anonymous

Give it a few minutes to go through CI and it should work

Anonymous

Alternatively, just python -m pip install pycryptodome

Anonymous

12:37 PM

Hmm... I've forgotten what the secret code is for the secret in Actually's interpreter...

3

Anonymous

That's probably not good

wizzwizz4

@Mego You can go through the source code trying to find it.

DJMcMayhem

@MartinEnder Wheat Wizard came up with this 24 byte swap: brain-flak.tryitonline.net/…

Martin Ender

22 according to the link? (also yeah I had 22 as well)

DJMcMayhem

Leaky nun also had a 34 byte single stack swap, which is insane

Oh sorry, yeah 22

Aug 26 at 5:38, by Eamon Olive

@DJMcMayhem That doesn't do it. It moves them to the other stack to keep them in place the optimal solution is ({}<({}<>)<>>)<>({}<>). I had a proof of this but by harddrive was borked so you'll have to take my word that its optimal.

Martin Ender

12:47 PM

@DJMcMayhem wow that's pretty good. probably something like repeatedly subtracting the two from each other?

DJMcMayhem

Also, I usually run bflak on TIO, so I don't really care about file extensions. Although I've usually gone with .flak

@MartinEnder TBH I'm not sure. I didn't read it super carefully

Aug 26 at 7:51, by Leaky Nun

@DJMcMayhem EUREKA: (({}({})))({}<({}[{}])>)({}[({})])

Martin Ender

yeah looks like it

DJMcMayhem

I wanna see a quine. That would be incredible. :D

wizzwizz4

@DJMcMayhem Didn't Leaky Nun used to be called something else?

Martin Ender

Kenny Lau

wizzwizz4

12:52 PM

@MartinEnder That's it. I'd almost forgotten.

Martin Ender

@DJMcMayhem well just making any quine at all is probably not too hard, but making it not ridiculously long is another matter...

DJMcMayhem

I think he changed to avoid confusion with Kevin Lau, who at one point was named "Kevin Lau, not Kenny"

@MartinEnder I don't know.

I'm not super good at quines. I've only made two before, and they were basically the same thing

Anonymous

@wizzwizz4 That doesn't help‌. I made it really secretive.

DJMcMayhem

Don't you hate it when you accidentally hit enter while you're still typing?

wizzwizz4

@DJMcMayhem I nev

Erm...

*awkward silence*

DJMcMayhem

12:56 PM

@wizzwizz4 that's not funny. I know you did that on pur

wizzwizz4

If you think about it, it's really, really easy to predict the next letters of a word if you only have the fi

Anonymous

@wizzwizz4 ...nal countdown!

wizzwizz4

I suppose that's why English is so easy to comp

Anonymous

@wizzwizz4 ...licate with unnecessary exceptions to simple grammar rules

2

TùxCräftîñg

what th

ASCII-only

1:02 PM

@DJMcMayhem Who is now called Value Ink to avoid confusion as well

wizzwizz4

@TùxCräftîñg @zyabin101 @ArtOfCode As the first users of TNB Noise Room you can attest to its success:

0

A: We need to talk about Chat

It is apparent that noise is not appreciated on The Nineteenth Byte. Therefore, the noise should be moved elsewhere. Not to Trash, because only the messages are moved and threads are often continued in TNB regardless. Instead, I have created the TNB Noise Room, where noise, drama and excessive si...

TùxCräftîñg

have an updoot

betseg

have an updo*

zyabin101

@betseg ...g

Anonymous

1:17 PM

@wizzwizz4 It's especially disturbing that you are a mod, and you thought this was a good solution

wizzwizz4

@Mego Could you be more specific about what you think is bad about this idea?

It's currently a proposal. 3 people liked it, 3 people didn't.

TùxCräftîñg

@Mego I'm not taking about spam / offensiveness / abuse, I'm talking about fun, jokey comments that some users don't like. So far, the Noise Room has kept those out of The Nineteenth Byte, but I don't think they are bad. Annoying, yes, but not bad. — wizzwizz4 1 min ago

Anonymous

@wizzwizz4 If someone is refusing to comply with the rules/guidelines, you don't create a separate space for them to break the rules. You ban them. The sort of behavior in question is not welcome anywhere on SE. Making a chatroom specifically for that sort of disruptive behavior actually makes the problem worse - it indicates that disruptive behavior is acceptable in certain places.

2

wizzwizz4

@Mego Please define disruptive behaviour. At present it appears to be very subjective.

We're probably talking about entirely different definitions of the word.

Anonymous

@wizzwizz4 You can't call it a proposal when you've already gone and done the thing you're "proposing".

Anonymous

1:23 PM

@wizzwizz4 Read the question you answered. It does a very good job at describing the kind of disruptive behavior in question.

wizzwizz4

@Mego Yet the existing answer only focuses on some of the behaviour.

It doesn't, for instance, say anything about deleted posts.

And I'd say that this is helpful, personally:

The "I really don't" may not be, but the original "bad behaviour" was helpful, constructive and useful.

quartata

Wow, it took me like less than a month to get from 4k to 5k rep, two months to get from 5k to 6k, and six months to get from 6k to 7k

DJMcMayhem

@wizzwizz4 SO had a similar problem a while ago, and their solution was to create "not-programming-related" for off-topic questions. After a while, they had to seriously revise the site and turned it into "programmers" and they're still suffering from it today. TNB noise room feels really similar to me.

quartata

Anyways I made it. 7k!

3

TùxCräftîñg

congrats

ASCII-only

1:27 PM

@quartata Just realized it's possible to use rep gain rate to predict user activity

@quartata Congratulations

Anonymous

@wizzwizz4 It wasn't helpful, constructive, or useful. There was no way to verify that the answer zyabin gave was correct without Elendia's confirmation. It would have been better for him to stay silent and allow the one person who actually knows the answer to answer.

quartata

@El'endiaStarman gonna have a tough time catching up now ,)

ASCII-only

This means we may be able to predict if Helka is actually gonna be here in almost ten years when he is supposed to change his name back :D

quartata

Anyways sorry to derail what on earth is going on

Adnan

@quartata Congrats :)

wizzwizz4

1:31 PM

@Mego But it was something to go on until Elendia answered.

Anonymous

@quartata wizz tried to take unilateral action to fix the chat problems but actually made it worse (in my opinion)

quartata

@wizzwizz4 If this is about the cron job incident

ArtOfCode

@Mego Are you being annoyed by all this noise in here?

quartata

Then lemme just say that no, it was most definitely not something to go on

Anonymous

@wizzwizz4 That was the straw that broke the herd of camels' backs. That was one incident out of a long, frustrating history of incidents.

ArtOfCode

1:32 PM

No, you are not. So what's the issue? The problem has been removed, at least for now, and that's what you wanted.

Anonymous

@ArtOfCode Yes, because that noise does not belong anywhere on the SE network.

wizzwizz4

Some of it does.

ArtOfCode

@Mego Why not? Point me to the rule, FAQ post, or policy that disallows it.

wizzwizz4

Some of it is fun.

trichoplax

@Mego @wizzwizz4 it would be easy to have a long argument over whether specific instances count as a problem, but the way I see it is that the number of borderline cases and the distress they have cumulatively caused the room are sufficient to make it a definite problem (I see Mego said more or less the same thing while I was typing this...)

2

Anonymous

1:33 PM

@ArtOfCode It's a bit ironic that you just answered a question asked to somebody else, given the discussion going on.

TùxCräftîñg

quartata

Also because even when we tell folk to make noise in the Sandbox or in their own gallery rooms or what not it always comes back here

TùxCräftîñg

just when i wanted to create a mod -.-

wizzwizz4

@Mego I did not unilaterally create the Noise room.

Others helped.

Anonymous

@ArtOfCode ppcg.github.io/chatiquette meta.stackexchange.com/help/be-nice

betseg

1:34 PM

@TùxCräftîñg ;_;

Anonymous

Constant disruptive behavior is harassment

ArtOfCode

@Mego chatiquette is not network policy; that's disqualified. Let me read the other one.

wizzwizz4

@ArtOfCode It's TNB policy, so stuff here should conform to that.

But not stuff in The Noise Room.

ArtOfCode

@Mego I agree. But if it's off in its own room, where it's not disruptive to anyone, it's not.

@wizzwizz4 yeah, that's my point. The noise room has removed the problem, I'm not seeing what the remaining issue is.

All that needs to happen now is for everyone to make sure the problem stays removed.

quartata

No offense Art or Wizz but you haven't really been here when some of this stuff happens. No matter how many new rooms people make noise leaks back in. (Maybe we need better soundproofing...)

2

We have been through this before.

wizzwizz4

1:37 PM

@quartata I've been here for quite a bit. And read the transcripts.

Anonymous

@ArtOfCode It's not going to. We've tried this in the past, with Code Golfer's Corner (serious golf discussion was to take place there, and general chatter here). It didn't work. We've learned our lesson - ban disruptive users.

wizzwizz4

@quartata So we should try stuf.

ArtOfCode

@quartata I get that, but now that the issue has been removed, it's down to the community and any mods here to keep it removed. If it comes back, crack down on it.

2

wizzwizz4

@ArtOfCode Well said.

Let's do both.

quartata

How? Suspensions are too extreme. Moving items to the trash is what we have been doing

ArtOfCode

1:38 PM

Say, once, "hey there's a room for that, please take it over there". If it continues, kick and/or suspend.

2

TùxCräftîñg

^

ArtOfCode

If this is a chronic issue that's been going on for ages and hasn't been solved, suspensions are now entirely appropriate.

Anonymous

Surely I'm not the only one who is frustrated by the fact that the new room owners have not done what they were appointed to do: discipline users who simply will not respond to criticism and improve their behavior to comply with this room's etiquette.

2

quartata

That was the point of this question, IMO. To find a good way to handle it

@Mego They absolutely have actually.

wizzwizz4

@quartata Moving stuff to Trash doesn't encourage people to carry on discussion in Trash. Moving stuff to TNB Noise Room encourages them to keep their noise there.

quartata

1:39 PM

People don't seem to learn not to do things from kicks which is all they really can do. Not their fault

ASCII-only

@Mego Not entirely sure there are any RO's that are sufficiently active in chat when Tux/zyabin are on

quartata

@wizzwizz4 We've redirected it to the Sandbox in the past. Personally i think that is the correct place for it

Anonymous

@quartata More kicks. Escalate the issue to the mods, who can issue longer suspensions without having to manually kick the users multiple times in a day.

ArtOfCode

So call a mod in. You're welcome to find me and ping me direct if it comes to that; otherwise, just find a mod here who's familiar with the situation. Get a suspension issued.

wizzwizz4

@quartata The sandbox is for testing features. Not for very noisy idle chatter.

Sp3000

1:41 PM

@Mego Side note: serious golf discussion does happen there, and I'm glad that room exists :)

quartata

I still feel like a global suspension is overkill. Why can't we have something in between

Might ask on Mother Meta

wizzwizz4

@quartata The system doesn't allow it :-(

Perhaps we start at 30-minute ban.

ArtOfCode

@quartata Ideally, we would, but since the system doesn't allow it...

quartata

@wizzwizz4 Sandbox is for testing and playing with chat. Fits the bill, no?

ArtOfCode

Honestly, I've seen enough of this issue to persuade me that suspensions are worth doing now. They might have been overkill to start with, not any more. It's just annoying too many people.

wizzwizz4

1:43 PM

in TNB Noise Room, 58 secs ago, by Learn How To Be Transparent

LETS BE NOISY

I think the noise room needs a name change.

TùxCräftîñg

good, dev.minetest is down and mesecons download site is also off -.-

so i need to look at the source code of minetest to have the api

Anonymous

I think the noise room simply shouldn't exist, and appropriate punishments should be dealt out for the issues at hand

ArtOfCode

@Mego here's the thing: if that room doesn't exist, all the noise is gonna happen in here. Do you want that?

Or would you rather accept a compromise, in that we have that room and we don't have to constantly punish everyone?

I know what I think's sensible.

Anonymous

@ArtOfCode Are you even reading what I'm saying? "Appropriate punishments" - as in, mods handing out suspensions to the users who simply will not learn. Escalating the punishments, like is intended.

ArtOfCode

@Mego so you want to make chat friendly to your type of chat, and have everyone who wants to chat less seriously suspended forever?

That's what you're saying.

That kind of chatter is not prohibited on SE; there is nothing against it. This is just one type of chatter against another, and we can't favour either one. Different rooms are an ideal solution - almost exactly what they were designed for.

3

wizzwizz4

1:48 PM

@Mego Please calm down a bit. It was a little shouty earlier, then it calmed down. Let's stay calm.

Anonymous

I don't think it's possible for me to express my opinions in a way that you two will understand, so I'm going to drop the subject. Just understand - I wholeheartedly disapprove of your "solutions" - the community has already weighed in on what the appropriate solution should be.

ArtOfCode

And said appropriate solutions will be used, if the noise continues in this room.

I fully understand what you're saying. I'm telling you that it's your opinion, and that SE policy doesn't back it up.

wizzwizz4

@Mego I'll summarise the proposition: Move noise to the Noise Room. If people don't keep noise in the Noise Room, hit them with hammers.

2

ArtOfCode

Elegantly said.

wizzwizz4

It's just like yours, but a little less harsh. We don't hit people with hammers unless we've given them a chance to go somewhere else first.

Anonymous

1:51 PM

@wizzwizz4 And I'll summarize my objection: The noise has been going on long enough that the hammers are long overdue. It's not like that kind of behavior just became unacceptable in the past week.

quartata

I don't see a problem with another room but I don't think it should literally be called TNB Noise Room. I think the sandbox is the correct place for this

ArtOfCode

@Mego All we can do to that is say "okay, sorry, shoulda got the hammers out earlier".

quartata

Calling somrthng Noise Room will encourage subpar behavior IMO as wizz has already noiced

Anonymous

@ArtOfCode Or, you know... Swing them now?

ArtOfCode

@quartata I'm... not fussed on that one, but other people do try to use the Sandbox too.

Anonymous

1:52 PM

Better late than never

wizzwizz4

@Mego We will, if anyone does anything deserving of them from now on.

ArtOfCode

@Mego there's nothing recent I can act on right now, otherwise I would be.

wizzwizz4

@quartata Do you have a suggestion for another name? I'm trying to think of one myself.

quartata

I don't think we should have a new room. Just use the Sandbox

TùxCräftîñg

TNB Sandbox?

ArtOfCode

1:55 PM

that works

wizzwizz4

TNB Thread Migration Destination?

ArtOfCode

TNB TMD

how badly can we acronymize this

quartata

I'd rather keep it in a more neutral place so that people don't feel like we're quarantining them but also so that we don't get blamed if omething bad happens in jt

ArtOfCode

@quartata you're not gonna get blamed, the people who did it are gonna get blamed.

wizzwizz4

@quartata The name Sandbox doesn't make people talk in there though.

quartata

1:56 PM

Sandbox is an SE network room which appeals in that regard

ArtOfCode

I would rather keep it away from a network room that other people use. It wouldn't be good form to have a group of users take it over because they're not welcome in TNB.

3

It makes sense to associate a room for this purpose with PPCG.

DJMcMayhem

FWIW, I think this is a terrible solution. When the whole community says "Please stop posting garbage/breaking rules", and the users respond by sticking their fingers in their ears and going "Nah nah nah, I can't hear you" the correct solution is not "well fine, let's just make a garbage can where literally any chat is allowed/on-topic"

2

And that's exactly what they've done. Zyabin has directly admitted to blocking me, Lynn, all of the room owners and the chat tag on meta

quartata

The thing is i don't think even temporary suspensions will work. Look at Erik: he got 2 suspensions on main and he's still being annoying to people

wizzwizz4

@DJMcMayhem But it's not necessarily garbage, and they're breaking no rules, save chatiquette which only applies on TNB.

DJMcMayhem

If you never hear the complaints, clearly you're doing fine

quartata

2:04 PM

I feel like we need to try something less hammer-y

wizzwizz4

@DJMcMayhem Which isn't good.

But you're allowed to do that.

If you do though, don't be surprised if you get suspended out of the blue.

This was discussed on the Teachers' Lounge, but I can't quote it here.

DJMcMayhem

You're still creating a garbage can

A place where the worst of the messages are explicitly on-topic

wizzwizz4

@DJMcMayhem Because people don't talk about "garbage" in the existing one.

@DJMcMayhem Not the worst.

ArtOfCode

@DJMcMayhem that doesn't necessarily make it true

wizzwizz4

Just ones that some people dislike and others enjoy.

Doorknob

2:06 PM

Perhaps it should be noted that the "noise room" is still officially linked to PPCG (via its parent site). Having a room with a name like that associated with PPCG probably wouldn't give a very good first impression, especially because I've already seen two new users join that room before joining this one during this discussion.

10

wizzwizz4

@Doorknob Please suggest a better name. We've been trying to think of a better one for a while.

Syxer

Wow this chat has gotten a lot of flak since I've been gone.

Adnan

I think that instead of seeing the warnings as personal threats, you could also see them as constructive criticism (so that you can improve yourself). If you fail to see it as constructive criticism and just simply ignore it, you are never able to solve the problem.

8

wizzwizz4

Look, just because we don't have homogeneous interests doesn't mean that one group should be banned.

@El'endiaStarman Please help! I don't know what to say anymore.

I've got to go now.

El'endia Starman

@wizzwizz4 I almost certainly support what Doorknob et al are saying.

wizzwizz4

2:11 PM

@El'endiaStarman So do I.

We need a better name.

Doorknob

@El'endiaStarman I've only said a single thing during this entire discussion >_>

El'endia Starman

@Doorknob I just woke up, so...

TùxCräftîñg

\o/ dev.minetest is back

Doorknob

@wizzwizz4 Regardless of what you call it, it will still appear from the outside to be representative of PPCG standards. And if you manage to prevent it from encouraging more useless fluff as you've been trying to do so far, that's great, but I'm not sure how feasible that is.

3

Dennis

2:41 PM

@wizzwizz4 A name change won't fix a fundamentally flawed idea. For the reasons already mentioned by others, I don't think the room you propose (and have already created) should exist.

2

ΛεγίωνΜάμμαλϠΟΗʹ

Well, you could always talk in the Trash Can :p

TùxCräftîñg

trash-can is mod only

ΛεγίωνΜάμμαλϠΟΗʹ

Oh ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Sherlock9

Should I come back later? This seems to be a pretty heavy discussion I just returned to.

El'endia Starman

quartata made a good point I would like to reiterate: @wizzwizz4 and @ArtOfCode, you two haven't been here continuously for the last few months. I and others have. A good many of us in TNB have seen the noise and drama and general disruptiveness of a few particular users, and we've even lost at least one long-time user.

Conor O'Brien

2:52 PM

@Sherlock9 idk. I'm personally going to just sit back and watch while starring appropriately.

Sherlock9

@Mego Get LastPass for all your password remembering needs :D

ArtOfCode

@El'endiaStarman What effect does that have? Sure, I haven't seen it all. Are you thinking that's affecting my judgement?

El'endia Starman

@Sherlock9 I don't blame you. I woke up in the middle of this and scrambled to read the transcript.

ArtOfCode

On the other hand, it can be useful to have people who aren't invested in the situation.

Sherlock9

@ConorO'Brien Fair enough. I'll go work on my prime tree answer, in the meantime.

Conor O'Brien

2:53 PM

@Sherlock9 Show me when you're done :D

PhiNotPi

Casual Chat Chess to lighten the mood? chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/45988/casual-chat-chess

3

Sherlock9

Well, I'll have to save a reminder about it because I may not get to work on it for a few days. My major (or is it department?) is having a camping trip starting tomorrow.

El'endia Starman

@ArtOfCode Yes, that's definitely affecting your judgement. There aren't really any specific instances that one can point to and say "this user should be banned for that", but many slightly aggravating instances that altogether warrant a ban.

ArtOfCode

@El'endiaStarman I don't disagree with that at all.

1 hour ago, by ArtOfCode

Honestly, I've seen enough of this issue to persuade me that suspensions are worth doing now. They might have been overkill to start with, not any more. It's just annoying too many people.

New Main Posts

0

Q: Find the intersection point of a plane and ray

Given a ray with a point and a vector and a plane with a point and a normal vector to the plane. You have to find the intersection point of the plane and the ray.. So your job if you choose to accept is to write a shortest function that will do the job. RULES: The submission must be a complete ...

Martin Ender

3:09 PM

33 minutes. You've really outdone yourself this time...

On a completely unrelated note, while looking through old 2D languages for that polyglot challenge, I obtained the original files of Orthagonal from Jeff Epler (created independently of Befunge, a year later), and got his permission to publish them, so here they are for anyone who's interested.

5

Conor O'Brien

3:21 PM

> I hope to hear soon that an enlightenend computer science teacher will
use this language in one of his 100-level comp sci courses, instead of pascal.
After all, the looping constructs are very elegant. (Yes, I've been waiting
all day to say that)

TùxCräftîñg

dev.minetest.net/spawn_falling_node

ok...

betseg

3:44 PM

SO in a nutshell

(probably repost tho)

mınxomaτ

You forgot "here's a jQuery solution even though you didn't ask for it"

zyabin101

3:56 PM

@Maltysen brainfreeze.tk is dead (TT)

betseg

Downgoat

cheddar> class Goat(private string: name, public number: age) {}
cheddar> let Downgoat = Goat { "Downgoat", 10 }
cheddar> Downgoat.name
Runtime Error: Downgoat has no property name
cheddar> Downgoat.age
10

\o/ \o/ \o/ Access modifiers in cheddar work

TùxCräftîñg

:D

betseg

@Downgoat what is cheddar based on

TùxCräftîñg

on cheese+++

Downgoat

4:01 PM

@betseg cheese

betseg

@Downgoat what is cheese based on

TùxCräftîñg

@betseg from the esolang page, on nothing

esolangs.org/wiki/Cheese

Downgoat

@betseg milk

betseg

nice

typedef struct Gaot {char* name; int age;} Gaot; Gaot Daongaot{"Daongaot",10};

C iz nice

Downgoat

u mean C++

oh wait no nvm

Dennis

4:10 PM

In light of recent issues, two users have been suspended for 7 days. Please Be Nice and don't discuss their suspensions.

18

Conor O'Brien

what does a suspension entail?

flawr

Probably no active participation in chat?

El'endia Starman

@ConorO'Brien Chat becomes read-only, basically.

Conor O'Brien

oh, I see.

El'endia Starman

@flawr: Y'know, you're not exempt from the "don't delete your messages" rule. :P

Sherlock9

4:27 PM

((removed) message removed)

trichoplax

Do a good enough impression of noise and you may get a very good impression of the appropriate response...

mınxomaτ

@Sherlock9 uh, lisp?

flawr

@El'endiaStarman what rule?

Sherlock9

@mınxomaτ Wouldn't that be ((removed) methage removed)?

Fatalize

I just used 70 hyperballs on a Dragonite and it fled...

mınxomaτ

4:34 PM

I thought (removed (message removed)), but dunno.

Sherlock9

Maybe in Lisp, but in that message, I meant, (removed) messages have been removed.

Downgoat

3

A: Natural construction

Cheddar, 17 bytes n f->(|>n).map(f) Short recursion + Short range + Short iteration = A challenge where cheddar does very well Non-competing, 11 bytes n f->|>n=>f The => operator was added after this challenge was released making this answer non-competing.

I outgolfed MATL apparently :o

mınxomaτ

With my laptop in my office yesterday: "I have fast internet here, let's run Windows Updates". No updates available. I get home today and it immediately starts to install - I sh*t you not - 241 updates. It's still going, after 6 hours!

betseg

similar thing happened to me, i believe you

mınxomaτ

2

wizzwizz4

4:46 PM

@mınxomaτ It only updates if you set your work network to a Work network (or sometimes only a Personal network).

mınxomaτ

No it doesn't.

quartata

@mınxomaτ This is horrifying

I don't understand why Windows decided to do updates when you're turning your computer off

mınxomaτ

This is an Enterprise version of Windows, updates are regulated by company-wide group policy.

But anyhow, this amount of updates is never appropriate.

Conor O'Brien

if it aint broken, don't fix it

wizzwizz4

@mınxomaτ It shouldn't, but it does.

@ConorO'Brien But it is broken. It's Windows 10.

mınxomaτ

4:48 PM

Actually it's Windows 8.1

Conor O'Brien

@wizzwizz4 nevermind, carry on

mınxomaτ

Windows 10's update splash screen looks much different

wizzwizz4

1/4 of updates improve it, 3/4 make it worse.

@mınxomaτ Not on my machine. Different text, but I attributed that to a locale difference.

mınxomaτ

@wizzwizz4 I guarantee you that it does not look like this.

On any Windows 10 version or locale.

wizzwizz4

@mınxomaτ It looks like that on my machine.

mınxomaτ

4:50 PM

No it doesn't.

The font will be smaller and the spinner is on top of the text

wizzwizz4

Then again, updates generally result in infinite loops until I delete important stuff on my machine.

mınxomaτ

^ soft updates in Windows 10

wizzwizz4

@mınxomaτ That's the Millennium Upgrade.

mınxomaτ

^^ upgrades in Windows 10

@wizzwizz4 No.

See the second screenshot.

wizzwizz4

?

That's not what my laptop does...

mınxomaτ

4:52 PM

@wizzwizz4 The first screenshot doesn't show an upgrade, it shows and update.

As the text says.

wizzwizz4

When mine was millennium upgrading, it started off looking like your "soft" image then changed to your "upgrade" image. Other times when it's updating it uses the 8.1 appearance.

mınxomaτ

There is no millennium upgrade. There is an Anniversary build

@wizzwizz4 Yes. And any update (only update, without upgrade) will look like the first screenshot.

wizzwizz4

My laptop's borken, so your images are probably right.

My laptop however shows different things.

And occasionally waits for the kernel to shut down before shutting down.

mınxomaτ

Here's a list of all Windows 10 versions I tested (It looks like this on every single one of them. The 8.1 update splash isn't even part of the Windows 10 system resources, so it can't even appear): docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/…

That even applies to the very early Windows 10 TP (back when Insider was called TP and Windows Hello wasn't a thing yet).

wizzwizz4

@mınxomaτ My laptop is vrey borken. Whenever the laptop gets stuck in an infinite restart loop when updating, I boot off a memory stick and delete stuff in the update directory until it works again.

I wouldn't be surprised if it deleted the System32 folder next time it booted up in the middle of the night to personalise the news feed I don't use.

Transcript for