The Nineteenth Byte

7:11 PM

There are a few different approaches in the other answers, but I don't know which approach this one is using so I can't guess at what's wrong

Beta Decay

@PeterTaylor Mtn Dew in the UK just seems to be Mountain Dew Energy

Tastes the same but no idea if there's any difference in ingredients

Alex A.

It's made with the blood of baby seals.

Beta Decay

I wonder about you little magpie

Alex A.

You really shouldn't.

Dennis

@trichoplax Me neither. I find Pyth extremely hard to read.

flawr

7:23 PM

Pyth is not made to be read.

Alex A.

^ Truth

Optimizer

^ How did he remember?

Optimizer

7:36 PM

Beta Decay

Is your brother also a llama?

Alex A.

@Optimizer Hahahaha who would have guessed?

Optimizer

@BetaDecay I am not really sure now.

Alex A.

This took me forever:

0

A: Symbolic Differentiation of Polynomials

Julia, 220 bytes No regular expressions! y->(A=Any[];for i=parse(y).args[2:end] T=typeof(i);T<:Int&&continue;T==Symbol?push!(A,1):(a=i.args;c=a[2];typeof(a[3])!=Expr?push!(A,c):(x=a[3].args[3];push!(A,string(c*x,"x",x>2?string("^",ex-1):""))))end;join(A," + ")) This creates a lambda functio...

trichoplax

I wonder if there is a demand for a readable language that uses exactly the same approach as a particular golfing language, allowing it to be compiled to it.

Alex A.

7:42 PM

You mean like Python for Pyth? :P

trichoplax

I guess it would need to be scaled up linearly so that golfing the readable language always results in shorter code in the golfing language

@AlexA. I know it's based on it, but I don't get the impression that Pyth anwers are written in python and then translated...

Alex A.

Any time I've tried to translate Python to Pyth, my Pyth solution is like 30 bytes longer than a good Pyth solution.

trichoplax

Also it isn't linearly scaled, so if code A in python is shorter than code B in python, it doesn't necessarily follow that code A in Pyth will be shorter than code B in Pyth.

Beta Decay

@Optimizer Because your cousin Rick's a snake so...

Optimizer

he's a gecko, not snake!

trichoplax

7:45 PM

Linear scaling would include the punctuation, I guess, so scaled up Pyth would look a little weird. I'm not even sure that could be made readable that way

Is there a less stringent condition that will ensure comparison is preserved?

I suspect there is not

Alex A.

Well the Pyth backend calls Python functions that are defined as part of Pyth. So perhaps those would make sense on their own.

e.g. Pmap, Pprint, etc

I know because I've generated a lot of Pyth errors by not knowing what I'm doing.

trichoplax

I'm guessing the actual Pyth command for Pprint is not 50% longer than the Pyth command for Pmap though? Are they both single character commands?

Alex A.

I think Pprint is called implicitly unless you specify p. And Pmap is m, but other things might call it too, not sure.

I bet @isaacg would know.

trichoplax

Yeah, it sounds like a readable version that maintains length comparison order is out of the question...

Alex A.

Dare to dream, @trichoplax.

I believe in you.

Nothing is out of the question if you believe in yourself.

trichoplax

7:52 PM

Choose your dreams wisely if you want them to come true

Would you really want to use a language where you have to spell out comma and colon to make sure every element is the same length??

Beta Decay

@Optimizer Are you sure? During the snake love conversation you said otherwise

Alex A.

@trichoplax Yes.

trichoplax

lol :)

Well writing a translator will be simple if every element is the same length. It's just a look up table.

It still might not be very readable though, especially with the implicit aspect you mentioned

Peter Taylor

@BetaDecay The UK version probably doesn't use HFCS.

Alex A.

I don't get why it would be simpler if things were the same length.

@PeterTaylor Is it used much outside of the US, or in products not imported from the US?

trichoplax

8:00 PM

@AlexA. Simpler to use or simpler to translate?

Optimizer

@BetaDecay first you constantly confuse me for some random species, and now my cousin! Stop coming after my family you non-living thing!

Peter Taylor

@AlexA. I think it's only really used in the US, and only there because of the vast government subsidies to corn farmers.

Optimizer

@BetaDecay moreover, I never even mentioned my cousin in that conversation..

Alex A.

@trichoplax I might not be thinking of the same thing that you are, but I was thinking that you'd write something like eval_in for Q, map for m, etc. Then the translator does a find and replace into Pyth.

@PeterTaylor Sigh.

Beta Decay

@Optimizer I'll hold to you that ;)

Optimizer

8:03 PM

how is that a reply at all?

Alex A.

Did the OP in the gameshow question actually give this guy money for his answer? codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/54155/20469

Optimizer

I think that -15 is affecting you badly..

Alex A.

> Wow OP delivered! Thanks @LivingInformation!

trichoplax

@AlexA. Thinking about it, as long as all the elements are delimited (say space separated) being the same length doesn't matter. If they weren't delimited then you'd have to check for ambiguities with one element being contained within another (say if you had comma and com).

Beta Decay

@Optimizer check a few messages above this:

Jul 24 at 22:37, by Beta Decay

Alex A.

8:04 PM

hahahahahaha what the hell is that

Optimizer

not a snake for sure

;)

Beta Decay

Giraffe snake ;)

Optimizer

@BetaDecay check yourself. It was always you, don't make your words appear as if I said the,

Alex A.

@trichoplax If you have them delimited, just split into an array on the delimiter, translate each piece to the equivalent Pyth, join back together.

Optimizer

"thinks he's a snake" is totally different from being one.

Alex A.

8:06 PM

@trichoplax If they weren't delimited, it'd be just as hard to read as Pyth. :P

trichoplax

@AlexA. Indeed - that works perfectly. The only remaining reason for having them all the same length is then so that you can compare length without having to translate first (length comparisons are preserved under translation to the golfing language).

@AlexA. Good point - I don't know what I was thinking... :)

Beta Decay

How much do you think he gave him? @AlexA.

Alex A.

@trichoplax Oh I see, so that you can determine the Pyth length without having to compile to Pyth first.

@BetaDecay 100,000,000,000 doge coins.

@trichoplax The problem is that some Pyth stuff isn't a single character. For example, .z, which is raw input (IIR).

So even having a consistent length for the longer language elements won't completely determine the Pyth length, unless you make things a length that's an integer multiple of the Pyth length, so you can just divide.

So m is 4 chars but .z is 8

But you'd have to count delimiters too

Also, who keeps track of byte counts in their head while they golf?

trichoplax

8:24 PM

@AlexA. Yes that's what I meant by scaling linearly - everything would have to be a length proportional to the length in Pyth

Yes delimiters would have to be scaled up too

Alex A.

How do you scale up from 0 though?

trichoplax

You wouldn't need to keep track of the byte count - it would just ensure that if you make the readable code shorter that definitely makes the translated code shorter.

0 scales to 0 :)

That means anything implicit has to remain implicit, which doesn't help readability

Alex A.

But if 0 scales to 0, you still have undelimited, unreadable code.

trichoplax

Oh I meant delimiters in the golfing language

Alex A.

Haha so ; --> ;;;;?

trichoplax

8:27 PM

As long as there is one delimiter per element in the readable language it should be fine

Alex A.

Mmm, yeah

trichoplax

So each single character pyth element goes to n characters including a space following it. Each double character pyth element goes to 2n characters including a space following it. As long as the space is included as part of the scaled up length everything should still be comparable

Alex A.

I think I don't understand why things would need to have a scaled byte count. Making 2n character function names becomes inconvenient for the user, especially if spaces are required.

The other problem with this is that a lot of operators in Pyth do different things depending on context.

So having a descriptive name is kind of out of the question.

Alex A.

8:46 PM

@Dennis Are you going to give the OP of the gameshow challenge a BitCoin address so he can give you cash equivalent fake internet points?

Beta Decay

Personally, I think that the point of PPCG is not for gain, but to have fun programming. So a financial prize kind of breaks that ethos.

Alex A.

Agreed 200%.

Beta Decay

Besides, it seems weird that he's using bitcoin

Alex A.

I wonder if it's actually against an SE policy. Seems like it could be.

@BetaDecay It's easier than mailing them cash. :P

Beta Decay

Why not something like PayPal?

Alex A.

8:52 PM

Requires more personal info I think.

Maybe he's using bitcoin because it's essentially useless.

Beta Decay

Ahh I see. I agree that it's probably against a policy too

Alex A.

stackexchange.com/legal

Doesn't appear to be against any terms of service

@isaacg @trichoplax Perhaps you two want to discuss the linearly expanded Pyth now that you're both here

isaacg

Yeah, I saw this above.

You could start with the compiled Python of Pyth

Then mess around with function names

I doubt it would be much easier to use, though.

Alex A.

@isaacg Agreed. If you know Pyth well enough to use it, then you probably know it well enough to just write it normally rather than relying on a language that compiles to Pyth.

isaacg

Yeah.

Something that might be helpful would be one for one long names for Pyth

So pMT would be "print map_over ten"

Alex A.

9:07 PM

Aren't those just the mnemonics?

isaacg

Yeah, but situationally correct

Alex A.

Right.

isaacg

So P is called pop or primes depending on how you're using it

Or M is map over or define binary function

Alex A.

That seems like it would be useful. Would that be much different than calling the underlying Python functions though, e.g. Pmap?

isaacg

Yeah, it would. M and the like are implemented at the parser level, not the function level

So they can't be mimicked

Alex A.

9:12 PM

Ah, okay.

@trichoplax, you should be paying attention here if this is a project you want to work on. :)

@isaacg Are you from the US?

isaacg

@AlexA. Yes

Alex A.

Are you a professional programmer?

Perhaps a senior Python developer/guru?

isaacg

I'm in college

Alex A.

Ah, okay. Computer science, I presume?

isaacg

Indeed

Maltysen

9:19 PM

hey @isaacg what do you think of a test suite feature in the online interpreter

isaacg

I like it

I like it a lot

A check box for "Run code separately on each line"?

Maltysen

I was thinking more of two seperate textboxes on a carousel

because the problem with doing scaffolding yourself is multiline inputs, so we also have "lines per input" on the second textbox

isaacg

Fair enough

I see. Seems straightforward enough, and very useful.

Maltysen

And the permalink button would change its effect based on which textbox is being used

isaacg

Right

Alex A.

9:28 PM

@Doorknob o/

BrainSteel

Enter less-than-radioactive Doorknob

Alex A.

@BrainSteel You're still here!

Doorknob

@AlexA. \o

BrainSteel

I don't know what you're talking about. vanishes

Alex A.

Dಠಠrknಠb

flawr

9:29 PM

lol

Doorknob

lಠl

flawr

did yಠu make a script fಠr replacing all ಠ's with ಠ?

Alex A.

Nಠ but I shಠಠd.

Doorknob

s/oo/ಠ_ಠ/gi

Maltysen

There are numerous chrome extensions

flawr

9:31 PM

bookmarklet is enough

the id of this textarea is surprisingly 'input'

Doorknob

I use Pentadactyl with Firefಠx, sಠ I just did :inಠremap ಠ ಠ.

... well, yಠu knಠw what I mean.

Alex A.

Replacing "o" with "ಠ" makes words look a lot angrier.

@Doorknob :D

flawr

Yಠu mean it makes wಠrds lಠಠk a lಠt angrier?

Doorknob

I'm tempted tಠ put this in my .pentadactylrc, but I have a feeling that wಠuld cause... prಠblems. (Right nಠw I can make it gಠ away by refreshing.)

Alex A.

What kind ಠf prಠblems dಠ yಠu anticipate?

Dennis

9:34 PM

@AlexA. I feel kinda weird getting money for a PPCG answer, but turning down free money feels equally weird. I guess I will.

Doorknob

Wait... scratch that. Turns ಠut refreshing dಠesn't make it gಠ away. Uh ಠh.

Alex A.

XD

Maltysen

javascript: $("#input").val($("#input").val().replace(/o/g, "%E0%B2%A0"))

Doorknob

Okay, :iunmap o worked. :P

Dennis

@AlexA. Btw, you're talking to a former BTC miner. I can actually pay for some services I use with BTC, so I wouldn't call it fake.

Alex A.

9:35 PM

@Dennis What is BTC?

And how do you mine it?

Doorknob

@Maltysen Yeah, but you have to run that every time you finish typing something in the text box. With Pentadactyl's inoremap, the o key literally inserts a ಠ.

Dennis

Bitcoins.

Maltysen

@Doorknob ahh

flawr

document.getElementById('input').value=prompt('ಠ','ಠ');

Alex A.

@Dennis Oh I wasn't calling bitcoins fake, I was implying that it was cash equivalent to SE rep. (Although I am on record (starboard)) as calling bitcoins useless... :|

Sorry

@flawr The last part looks like an owl!

Maltysen

9:38 PM

javascript: $("#input").keypress(function(){$("#input").val($("#input").val().replace(/o/g, "%E0%B2%A0"))})

just run that ಠnce and it will keep ಠn replacing autಠmatically

flawr

haha

Doorknob

pshh, so inefficient. And :imap o ಠ is still golfier ;)

flawr

s%E0%B2%A0 lets try maltysens script. hm lets find s%E0%B2%A0me w%E0%B2%A0rds with %E0%B2%A0's

Alex A.

Julia, 25 bytes: s->replace(s,r"o","ಠ")

flawr

d%E0%B2%A0es n%E0%B2%A0t seem t%E0%B2%A0 w%E0%B2%A0rk?

%E0%B2%A0r d%E0%B2%A0es it w%E0%B2%A0rk %E0%B2%A0n y%E0%B2%A0ur screen?

Maltysen

9:39 PM

@flawr ಠಠಠh yಠu shಠuld replace the escape sequence with the actual char

flawr

h%E0%B2%A0w can i d%E0%B2%A0 that?

Alex A.

haha

flawr

n%E0%B2%A0b%E0%B2%A0dy can undestand me anym%E0%B2%A0re!

Maltysen

javascript: $("#input").keypress(functiಠn(){$("#input").val($("#input").val().replace(/ಠ/g, "ಠ"))})

Doorknob

@flawr Y%E0%B2%A0u appear t%E0%B2%A0 be experiencing pr%E0%B2%A0blems...

Alex A.

9:40 PM

@flawr That's true. I mean, what? I can't understand.

flawr

y%E0%B2%A0u kn%E0%B2%A0w my fav%E0%B2%A0urite w%E0%B2%A0rk with %E0%B2%A0s? its t%E0%B2%A0p%E0%B2%A0l%E0%B2%A0gy %E0%B2%A0r kn%E0%B2%A0t the%E0%B2%A0ry weks well t%E0%B2%A0o

Alex A.

This is getting out of hand.

Maltysen

relಠad the page

flawr

n%E0%B2%A0 it is n%E0%B2%A0t getting %E0%B2%A0ut %E0%B2%A0f hand!

%E0%B2%A0k im g%E0%B2%A0nna rel%E0%B2%A0ad the page.

sಠ its much better nಠw

=)

BrainSteel

I swear, I look away for 10 seconds and this place turns into a mess.

flawr

9:42 PM

can't we make that a standart feature ಠf this site?=)

Doorknob

I'm totally becoming Dಠಠrknಠb on April 1 next year.

flawr

can yಠu change yಠu rname??

Maltysen

@flawr fಠr 30 days yಠu can't change back

flawr

every thirty day ಠr just ಠnce?

ah sಠ just ಠnce?

Alex A.

@D೬ಗಗis.

Doorknob

9:43 PM

Every 30 days, but I can abuse my diamond to change it back in one. :P

Dennis

Address added, @AlexA.

Haha, I got pinged twice for that one.

Alex A.

I had to edit it because my first hidden ping wasn't hidden

So it pinged you twice

@Doorknob You could be Dಠಠrkn♦b

With each message I fear we're converging on Wingdings.

Doorknob

Đಠ_ಠŕǩñ♦ß

flawr

♥ ❣ ❤ ❥ ❦ ❧ ♡xXxOoODಠಠrkn♦bOoOxXx♥ ❣ ❤ ❥ ❦ ❧ ♡

Alex A.

hahaha

Dennis

9:48 PM

@AlexA. Zero pings, to compensate.

Alex A.

@Dennis How did you do that? :O

Dennis

Magic.

And zero-width spaces.

flawr

what pìngs are you talking about?

Alex A.

@Dennis You typed that faster than I could. ;)

@flawr Chat pings

I have a coworker named Pingping. Does she get twice the chat pings?

flawr

Pingpong?

Alex A.

9:50 PM

No pong, just ping

Could a mod change their name to ♦ so that their display name is ♦ ♦?

Doorknob

No, display names can't contain any of the Unicode diamonds.

Alex A.

Makes sense. Unfortunate though.

We should suggest to SE that for April Fool's next year, all of the mod diamonds be replaced with ಠ.

flawr

how is that, do you get elected as a mod or is it just a matter of rep?

Alex A.

@flawr Mods are selected for beta sites, elected for graduated ones

flawr

speaking of that, ppcg has been beta for quite a few years now.

is it because it has to do with programming that it never gets out of beta?

Alex A.

9:55 PM

?

Doorknob

@flawr no.

Alex A.

It has to do with our daily question rate and probably other stuff

ಠఏಠ

Looks like Nigel Thornberry

flawr

so we should start spamming the page in order to get out of beta?

Alex A.

Let me rephrase. Daily high quality question rate.

@Doorknob knows all of the intricate details since he's been vocal about getting us out of beta for a long time.

And if @Geobits tells you we're going to graduate, don't believe him.

Transcript for