The Nineteenth Byte

PhiNotPi

4:17 PM

@MartinBüttner What should I do about this response? codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/52579/2867

Optimizer

pretty sure its the same guy who was similar-trolling a few days back

Sp3000

@trichoplax Bonus question: What's the minimum number of pixels you need so that you can't add any more?

Doorknob

@PhiNotPi esolangs.org/wiki/ALPACA

trichoplax

@Sp3000 The inverse question?

Interesting

Sp3000

Kinda like manhattan exclusion, yeah

PhiNotPi

4:23 PM

@Sp3000 What challenge are you guys talking about.

trichoplax

12

Q: Uniquely separated pixels

For an N by N image, find a set of pixels such that no separation distance is present more than once. That is, if two pixels are separated by a distance d, then they are the only two pixels that are separated by exactly d (using Euclidean distance). The challenge is to find a larger such set tha...

@PhiNotPi That one

What triggers being presented with flagged chat messages? Is it hitting 10k site wide?

Martin Büttner

@PhiNotPi you should find out if it meets the output spec and if an initial condition can be specified

Doorknob

@trichoplax No, it's total of 10k network-wide.

Dennis

@PhiNotPi The binary on GitHub seems to be dated October 22, 2012, so it's older than your challenge.

trichoplax

@Doorknob Wording error - thanks that fits

Optimizer

4:34 PM

@PhiNotPi catseye.tc/node/ALPACA

its from 1998

trichoplax

@Doorknob Are there any guidelines on what I should regard as a problem and what I shouldn't? There was a message earlier from the The Second Monitor that I wasn't sure was offensive without context, and in context the person it was said to clearly wasn't offended, but someone had flagged it and it was potentially offensive

Doorknob

@trichoplax If it's clearly not meant offensively in context (and the target of the message was clearly not offended), then mark it as invalid.

trichoplax

To be honest I couldn't understand the message so I wasn't sure whether taking offense was valid...

Doorknob

Then "not sure" is probably the best option.

trichoplax

I'll bear that in mind though - thanks

Doorknob

4:38 PM

I think I remember there being a meta post about this somewhere too.

16

Q: How should I handle chat flags?

Chat flags cause quite a bit of drama. This FAQ might be useful to help avoid drama by educating those who handle chat flags. As a 10k chat user/chat moderator, I see a small blue circle in chat. What does it mean? How should I handle it? As a diamond moderator, how does this change?

support chat faq-proposed

trichoplax

Ooh thanks - will look now

All sounds sensible

Thomas Kwa

Dennis: It's almost like we're competing for the worst nethack input format.

My 36 will also be four random keys, but I don't yet know which.

Dennis

@ThomasKwa :D You're going to get 36? I'm currently at 37 and running out of ideas...

The input format isn't the only bad part of my code. I'm constantly leaking memory...

Vioz-

5:28 PM

I have been privileged with going home very early today :D

Nathan Merrill

5:43 PM

hey, I'm looking to create a meta-programming challenge (write a program that creates a program)

however, to do it right, you need a series of defined outputs and inputs

and a language that is easy enough to meta program

any ideas as to what language that might be?

(I was thinking along the lines of SpaceChem, but it seems too complicated)

Thomas Kwa

What type of program will the meta-program be writing?

Nathan Merrill

anything that requires actual logic, really

have you played space chem?

Thomas Kwa

How general will the meta-program need to be?

I know what it is, and what the commands are.

I started playing it three weeks ago, and then summer session classes got too intense.

Nathan Merrill

right, its basically a puzzle in programming form

I'm looking to create a similar, but simpler, kind of idea

trichoplax

More or less complex than lightbot?

Nathan Merrill

5:46 PM

it could be a new language, or one that already exists

lightbot?

hmmm, looks interesting

trichoplax

I can't find where to play it online - I'll post the link if I find it

Nathan Merrill

I found a place, and there's a video

trichoplax

Oh good

Nathan Merrill

the one requirement I know of so far is that the number of commands available has to be limited

trichoplax

To a small limit?

Nathan Merrill

5:50 PM

I mean, the total available number of commands in a single program has to be limited

trichoplax

Oh I see - a byte limit

Nathan Merrill

I don't want people writing the same bot for each challenge

right

trichoplax

Oh no wait

Nathan Merrill

so, with a byte (or command) limit, they actually have to figure out what kind of program to write

trichoplax

So like, 32 bytes per program (arbitrary example number)

Thomas Kwa

5:51 PM

What kind of metaprograms do you want?

Nathan Merrill

but I don't want the commands to be "move left, move right" 32 times

Thomas Kwa

A general solver, like Levin search or OOPS?

Or something that writes more specific programs?

Nathan Merrill

the meta program would simply need to be able to write a program

trichoplax

do you want it to write programs to move something around an arena, or to transform a piece of data into something else, or...

Nathan Merrill

I don't care

It can't just be number transformations

because I don't think that could be interesting

trichoplax

5:53 PM

Maybe optimisation problems?

Thomas Kwa

The type of problems you choose is very important to the type of metaprograms that will be created.

trichoplax

What will be the winning criterion?

If several metaprograms can solve all tasks?

Nathan Merrill

the efficiency

it is definitely an efficiency problem

maybe I'll just do spacechem

Thomas Kwa

Efficiency of the program or the metaprogram?

Nathan Merrill

of the programs written

trichoplax

5:55 PM

Will there be a secondary criterion for tie breaking?

Nathan Merrill

no

Thomas Kwa

What's to prevent people from hardcoding programs they've manually found?

Nathan Merrill

the puzzles provided would be up for change

not major changes

Thomas Kwa

I can't give input until you decide what types of puzzles there would be.

Nathan Merrill

maybe manufactoria?

Sp3000

6:00 PM

CargoBot is another programming game, to add to the list (bit closer to LightBot than Spacechem though)

trichoplax

How will the metaprogram be informed of the challenge? Will there be a standard specification language/format?

Nathan Merrill

actually, manufactoria might be what I want

you are given a series of inputs, and an output for each input

and your meta program must create a machine to do it

Thomas Kwa

I'm having trouble with my 36-byte nethack. Bad luck, but I still think I can get it.

Thomas Kwa

6:37 PM

Got it. And the input is actually the arrow keys!

*cough* inthewrongdirections *cough*

Sp3000

Welcome to code golf, where the input format is messed up and time/memory complexities don't matter

And, occasionally, where the output's also messed up

Dennis

6:53 PM

@ThomasKwa Working well. I finally got an emulator!

Thomas Kwa

What's working well?

My solution?

Dennis

Yup. The repaints are a bit annoying though. No way around that?

Thomas Kwa

I should remove the ClrHome at the beginning of the display program.

Dennis

Oh, yes. That does the trick.

What's the last line of DISPLAY supposed to do? It works fine without it.

Thomas Kwa

It was a delay so the last row doesn't disappear immediately after it displays.

But there's no point in that or the ClrHome.

Nathan Merrill

7:30 PM

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Meta-Manufactoria Manufactoria is a pretty great programming game. However, instead of writing machines to solve the problems, your goal is to write a program that creates the machines for you. If you are already familiar with Manufactoria, then for the next section, you only need to read the ...

how does that look?

New Sandboxed Posts

7:41 PM

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Meta-Manufactoria Manufactoria is a pretty great programming game. However, instead of writing machines to solve the problems, your goal is to write a program that creates the machines for you. If you are already familiar with Manufactoria, then for the next section, you only need to read the ...

Phase

Anyone got any ideas for a 2D language?

Thomas Kwa

Well, I have 35-byte Nethack; depending on luck I may get 34.

Sp3000

@Phase I never finished Golfish, but my favourite addition was T to set a teleport marker, saving direction and t to teleport to the last marker set

(mainly because working out coords all the time for . was a pain)

aditsu

7:57 PM

yay, restricted-source badge :)

Sp3000

Is that the only reason you did Rod Logic? :P

aditsu

no, but it is the main reason :p

Phase

@Sp3000 There's a language called Portal that does that (and Portal 2).

Phase

8:49 PM

@Sp3000 oooo just thought of doing code blocks

Dennis

10:08 PM

Is PPCG slow today or does my internet connection just stink more than usual?

trichoplax

Slow as in few questions or taking ages to load?

Doorknob

No problems here.

Dennis

Taking ages to load. Posting a question took three attempts.

trichoplax

No all seems as normal here

I haven't posted anything new today but edits have been fine

Dennis

Probably my connection then. South America + Friday evening == Crappy internet

Phase

10:14 PM

3:14 here :3

New Main Posts

0

Q: Move to the printable ASCII front

Background The move-to-front transform (MTF) is a data encoding algorithm designed to improve the performance of entropy encoding techniques. In the in the bzip2 compression algorithm, it is applied after the Burrows–Wheeler transform (as seen in Burrows, Wheeler and Back), with the objective of...

code-golf string compression encode

Dennis

Finally! :P

Doorknob

"Batman isn't easily compressible" - out of context quote of the day

8

Nathan Merrill

Ok, I finished the examples here:

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Meta-Manufactoria Manufactoria is a pretty great programming game. However, instead of writing machines to solve the problems, your goal is to write a program that creates the machines for you. If you are already familiar with Manufactoria, then for the next section, you only need to read the ...

Phase

10:54 PM

Is this good code block syntax?
{12+}X {code}Character
You can assign it to any character and it will be called before it parses anything else
so `{12+n} ` prints 3 (since there are 2 spaces there, one for assigning and one for calling).
My stack object only holds doubles, so I can't put the block on the stack. But that also means that you can call a block from any stack.

I also can't use a : for assigning because it's used for copying the top of the stack

Dennis

11:25 PM

@Phase I'm missing a little context. Are you designing a golfing language?

Phase

@Dennis Yes, it's a fork of ><>: github.com/phase/refract

Dennis

So, <block><character> would store the block in that character and the next occurrence of that character would execute the block?

Sounds good to me, but I don't have a lot of experience with 2D languages.

Phase

I'm trying to think of a way to do 2D code blocks
{21v
>+n}X X

darn spaces