ELL's Cabin - 2015-04-22 (page 1 of 2)

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2:07 AM

@Igo I've been keeping your question in the back of my mind. I've also just noticed one interesting thing, which is your mentioning of currently and at the moment, but not now, nowadays, usually, etc. I wonder what the book says about those time phrases. Can both tenses be used or is one preferred to the other, according to the book? And how well does the explanation given in the book match your expectation? — Damkerng T. 48 secs ago

Well, maybe we can make the question easier to answer!

2 hours later…

3:46 AM

Morning! (I'm up waiting for a mail.)

maybe 'an email' is better, 'mail' has probably never become countable...

4:44 AM

good morning guys :-)

@Man_From_India Morning!

5:07 AM

I have written an answer to that "but build they have" question. Any comments?

-1

A: but build they have

The .NET platform is roughly the same as the Java Virtual Machine (JVM; the software platform on which Java programs execute) and Java libraries, and C# bears unmistakable similarities to Java. This is certainly the best work that Microsoft has done in the arena of programming languages and pr...

3 hours later…

Anonymous

8:36 AM

@DamkerngT. Morning!

Anonymous

9:07 AM

I didn't notice anything weird about "waiting for a mail". I did assume it referred to email, since I don't think a mail is used to refer to a physical piece of mail

Hi

@snailboat how are you ?

when we throw the batch DirectDebitResult we got some errors which are IllegalEventException and that
due to some bills were in presented status and back to pending status because of an endorsement like "Payment Mode Adaptation",
therefore the application won't found a state machine related to that status and then throw the exception.
the correction is to skip these bills and if there is a credit instance these later will be paid by it.
after this correction we got an other error when the application try to insert an affectation(related to a credit instance) in the database with an amount i…

9:30 AM

please I need your correction

9:59 AM

@fahdijbeli Welcome to the room! I recommend doing corrections in the other room, though: chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/7227/english-language-learners

Thank you

@DamkerngT.

You're welcome!

10:20 AM

0

Q: What does "with respect for the choices of society of all peoples" mean?

Excerpt: Aiming to promote responsible, sustainable and universally accessible tourism in the framework of the right of all persons to use their free time for leisure pursuits or travel with respect for the choices of society of all peoples, ([from Preamble of the Global Code of Ethics for To...

word-meaning phrase-meaning

The text reminds of something Ilan said, about not all native speakers will pass IELTS(?) academic writing test.

@Dam In my experience, waiting for an email is idiomatic. "A mail" is, in my experience, Taiwanglish!

@JimReynolds I guessed so! Though I think the usage has been changing somewhat.

But certainly no one will have a problem understading it, and it's possible that a new . . . Bingo!

Evening @Jim!

Hi-hi!

10:27 AM

Hi @Man_From_India!

BTW, I posted an answer again! It might be raining soon today!

hope you're raining fine...

10:38 AM

Hi!

I have asked this type of questions before but I am again asking.

Your co-operation and support is greatly appreciated by the investigation team

What if I rewrite it: "Your co-operation and support are greatly appreciated by the investigation team"

I think it's debatable.

Welcome to the room @user62015!

Welcome.

I mean, English has more than one type of agreement.

I agree. Let me understand will my solution work here?

I think Jim can explain this better than me.

wondering if he's still around his computer...

10:51 AM

Me too!

Hmm?

18 hours ago, by Damkerng T.

I still haven't watch that one.

O.O

I am waiting.

@JimReynolds Don't worry. It was my late hour.

If something can be done about my question :).

Both are ok, user62015.

10:59 AM

You people always work here.

Great.

Specially @DamkerngT. always works.

Um... I wouldn't call this chatting work, though. :D

I appreciate his effort.

But you have to spend the time on it.

It takes time.

Oh, I come here to learn. :-)

Or are you the one taking time to give us free lessons?

O.O

You should start charging money, user62015.

I am just a student.

But as we know we have to do something to earn living.

@DamkerngT. Are you also a student?

11:03 AM

I'm not a student either.

I said learn, not study, right? ;-)

Damkerng T. is a learning machine.

LOL

He learns, therefore he is.

Hehe!

Yes.

But being a professional we have to earn living.

11:05 AM

Gotta go. BBL

So, I just asked.

I hope, you didn't mind.

See you later.

Gn.

Bye!

May be back in half an hour or so. :-)

OK. I'm going to try to get some work done this evening myself.

I'm going to try to make this room for breaks. :D

11:28 AM

2

Q: "and build upon that, but build/built they have"?

From the book Thinking in Java: The .NET platform is roughly the same as the Java Virtual Machine (JVM; the software platform on which Java programs execute) and Java libraries, and C# bears unmistakable similarities to Java. This is certainly the best work that Microsoft has done in the aren...

grammar preposing

> Of course, they had the considerable advantage of being able to see what worked well and what didn't work so well in Java, and build upon that, but build they have.

Is it just me or did everyone really overlook the build in build upon that?

It sounds a bit odd for me because the author referred back to the point in time that they [Microsoft] had the considerable advantage first, and then wrote and build upon that.

Though the shifting back and forth of the reference time in real speech is not uncommon.

0

Q: What does "A complex system of glands" mean?

I was doing an Earth Day Quiz on Google Search Engine and went across that option under "What do you look for in a partner?"

I guess it means what they think they mean!

I'd better let others reassure them.

12:07 PM

Remember the pronunciation stress question "What should I have done?" (or similar).

@JimReynolds Hullo!

O.O

(Hurry, tell me something nice)

You!

Prepares to attack.

Well, first, how are you?

Shields up

@JimReynolds Fine. Not dead yet.

12:08 PM

@JimReynolds Do you mean "What am I supposed to do"?

Yes!

Hullo Dam!

Hullo, chemling!

And it's funny because I asked it order to introduce something relating to life and death, then MAR mentioned the latter.

Wait.

O.o

Let me rephrase that.

Waiting.

12:10 PM

Yes. Because after playing the "What am I supposed to do" YouTube clip, another YouTube clip started automatically.

Called "What am I supposed to do in life?"

Oh, YouTube loves doing that! Not sure since when.

LOL

And every time I start up my browser, I hear this guy saying . . .

When you die, you're not going to have to put up with everlasting non-existence, because that's not an experience.

Very comforting!

When you die?

Meaning after you die.

After one/we die/s.

When do you actually die?

12:11 PM

Nice!

O.O

Argh!

Starts taking notes

Is that a threat?

Yes. Big time.

12:12 PM

Runs away, yelling.

Falls into a lake.

Chases, shrieking

Can't swim.

And then the credits are shown.

turned into a box, hiding in plain sight...

Because can't yell and swim at the same time.

12:13 PM

@JimReynolds That's the beginning of the second movie.

Credits roll over bubbles rising through a lake.

Kids shows?

Placid Lake

Wait! Another piece of Knowledge.

Wheresoever beings exist throughout all galaxies--it doesn't make any difference--you are all of them.

Hmm, there's a hot question only @Jim can answer properly.

5

Q: Why would a creature need to eat hair?

In a story I'm working on, there are some creatures that eat hair, wool, fur, and anything similar. They're not mites or insects, but are (very roughly) the size of humans. Is there any realistic reason that a creature would need to eat hair?

science-based biology creature-design

12:16 PM

Protein!

They want keratin?

The smell of burning hair does make me hungry. But I try not to think about that.

o.0

Keratin "provides the necessary strength and toughness for masticatory organs."

Can we say that on here?

O.0

In your case, yes.

o_O

O.O

1

A: "As far as I can remember." Does it need comma if put at the end of a sentence?

The sentence does need a comma there because the dependent clause as far as I can remember adds nonessential information following an independent clause. Note the main rule about a dependent clause following an independent clause in a complex sentence, and (pertinant here), the exception to the...

I got 10 !!!!

I am almost a big boy.

But why do people want to close that question?

12:20 PM

@JimReynolds 10 what?

@JimReynolds They're scared of the answerer.

Points, dummy.

Gives MAR 10 dummy points.

There, now you are even dummier.

Sheesh. That doesn't need overexcitement.

@JimReynolds GOOD!

Sucks dumbness fumes inside

Well, before that, the high point of my day was watching my dogs lick themselves.

It's not always in the nicest of places.

@JimReynolds If they were hot, there would be some surprise.

Hot dogs?

12:22 PM

thinking of hot dogs...

yum!

Runs after hot dogs, trying to ketchup with them.

Hullo @Arau!

ketchup with hot dogs... sounds perfect!

Hi folks!

Hi, @Araucaria!

12:24 PM

@Arau I remember you were a native speaker. Are you from Australia?

I think Araucaria is still alive...

@MARamezani No, I'm Scottish, but speak Southern standard English (lived in England a lot)

@Araucaria Hmm, like Colleen?

Oh, do you look like Sean Connery?

Well, you know what they say about Scottish people!

12:26 PM

Tell me!

@JimReynolds Yes. They're native English speakers.

Wonders what they say. Wonders who *they are.*

Oops.

@DamkerngT. No, I'm a lot younger!!! :)

Damn asterisks.

:-)

12:26 PM

Do you look like Sean Connery's baby?

LOL

@JimReynolds Use this.

Maybe his baby's baby!

What's that

?

lol

@Araucaria Wait...!

12:27 PM

He's old enough to be my grandfather!

Oops. I got to run away for a bit.

Try not to miss me too much.

Catch ya later!

Bye!

@JimReynolds Gonna make you wrong! Bye!

@Arau how old are you?!

20-something?

A smidgen older

12:30 PM

Ah, 33.

something like that, yes

@snailboat!

You're as old as snailboat, twice as old as me, and 0.0000000000000000000000001% as old as @Dam.

@MARamezani How old's Dam?

Am I older than the universe!?

4536787543526785432 years old, disguised as 45.

@DamkerngT. Which universe? This one or the last one?

12:33 PM

LOL

And Man_From_India is 26.

Hullo @Man_From_India!

4

Q: Is there a particle that strongly emphasizes the meaning of an adjective or adverb?

In English, one would say "The weather is so damn cold!" or "The S-Bahn strikes happen so frigging often!" Is there something similar in German? I know that, in some cases, you can use an absolute superlative, like arschkalt, or just say sehr kalt; but that feels a bit tame to me, and doesn't a...

adjectives adverbs

O.0

German has particles?

It must be a nerdy language.

Anonymous

Lots of languages do.

Ah...Particle!

@Man_From_India Hi there

Think he's reading something from OED, so he would throw it at us.

12:40 PM

@MARamezani Who, MFI?

Yep.

@MARamezani Nice to get stuff from a vetted source!

Too much vetting...

12:57 PM

@snailboat Can I ask you a grammar Q?

More specifically, in the amount of (X), is the PP "of X" a modifier or a complement do you reckon?

1:19 PM

4

Q: Schools are the only place or schools are the only places?

Consider the below sentences: "Cinemas are the only places where movies are being played" "Schools are the only place where teachers teach" My gut reaction is "places" should be in plural form. However, when I Googled the second sentence with a singular "place", more results are return...

nouns subject-verb-agreement ellipsis countability

How bad is my answer here? I hope it doesn't sound like . . . I sort of made it up. O.O

Oh, -2!

I haven't voted that answer.

It's easy, and it's safe for learners to blindly stick to X is the only place [that ...] and Xs are the only places [that ...]

But how perfectly is that aligned with what native speakers really use?... I don't know.

I should've replaced those 'place/places' with Y/Ys...

4

Q: Awkward grammar on new flag dialog

After the minor overhaul of the flag dialog, I noticed this grammar: "is... spam" and "is... inappropriate" makes sense to me, but "is... should be closed" feels awkward.

bug grammar flag-dialog

:D

corpus.byu.edu/coca/?c=coca&q=38754947

1:36 PM

Hullo @trig! Welcome to the chatroom!

1:49 PM

Hi, @MARamezani. Just passing through.

@TRiG How is your day?

I'm getting some reading done.

I think @Dam is messing with his controllers.

So, the chat goes quiet.

Ah, I was disconnected from the web.

Welcome to the room! @TRiG

@DamkerngT. Hi. I should spend more time on this site: it's really interesting.

:D

I suppose so!

1

Q: What is the difference between these two statements?

It rained at noon. It was raining at noon. I slept at 5 o'clock yesterday. I was sleeping at 5 yesterday. Actually, I seem to understand progressive quite well. But what is about the correct use of the past?

Even simple sentences can have much to talk about!

Sentences can talk? !

1:59 PM

"(for us) to talk about" -- Even my own sentences can have much to talk about!

@DamkerngT. Hey!

I think both are correct. O.O

@MARamezani Wait, I think we got 4, not 2!

Ah, I meant both of the usages.

@Araucaria i will come tomorrow this time :-) i need your help to understand something :-)

@Man_From_India I don't think you'll be able to chat this soon...

2:15 PM

Thanks for the nice explanation. So, would it be correct to say: at some specific time I started to talk to somebody or i still was continuing to talk to? Is it the same idea about: at that moment i went out and i was still going to leave? — gerol2000 1 hour ago

Hmm... actually I think this reflects the problem several of us have with the Progressive aspect and the Past tense.

What problem?

How to use the Past tense and how to perceive the Progressive aspect appropriately.

Ahh.

Heh! Seems that the singular "they" has been a big problem in meta.SE

Eh?

Example is

-19

A: New profile pages are out - bugs and feedback master list

status-declined The grammar is incorrect for object pronouns: The correct singular object pronoun should be him/her/them (if shared accounts are to be recognized). I'm one person, so 'them' is incorrect in this context (even if it does appear 'awkward' to some). The convention to use 'them'...

2:20 PM

I wonder if there is a Meta.SE post that isn't in red!

There are lots of those posts.

ell.stackexchange.com/q/55344/#comment104413_55344

@Dam am I missing something?

Someone else upvoted that non-answer.

I agree it's a non-answer.

Wait, ...

Mark said, "Yes it's still grammatical ..."

So actually Mark answered the question.

Can I remove the "of it"? Will the sentence still be grammatical?, to be specific.

That's a comment thing!

Can I remove the "of it"? "Yes" Will the sentence still be grammatical? "Yes it's still grammatical, ..."

First of all, I see no resources but an IMO, and second, the guy's requesting clarification from the OP.

Delete noise from the post, and all you get is yes.

2:27 PM

I guess it's a little bit of both (answer and comment)!

That isn't an appropriate answer.

Whatever. Just flagged it.

I think it's an answer, but it's not a very good one.

That's okay. I think it's borderline.

Dunno. But we never accept those as answers in chemistry.

nods -- We don't encourage short answers on ELL, either.

Weakly: Help.

Help!!!!

2:29 PM

?

What can we help you with?

@JimReynolds HELP YOURSELF!

Weakly

How. Dare. They??

-1 because the dependent clause of the second sentence does not have to be read as adding 'extra information' — pazzo 58 mins ago

Oh wait, I don't wanna get eaten! I meant...

I was -1'ed!!

Me!!!!

YOU!

2:31 PM

Don't they know who I am?

Imitates sobbing

O.O

@JimReynolds They will when they'll get eaten.

And there are no tears because you are saving water, I assume?

One beauty of SE is that everyone will be treated as equal. :P

2:32 PM

I'm writing to the High Council.

@JimReynolds I'm solving global warming, but yeah.

My browser is not in its great shape!

:'(

179,485,580,837 tabs is near its limit?

Jim, now I really like to see you getting that peer pressure badge.

@JimReynolds I think it's about 2200. It just crashed some minutes ago.

still restarting...

You know, restoring 2200 tabs takes quite some time...

It's back! (I think)

2:36 PM

O.O

How do you do that formatting?

ANSWER!

What formatting?

o_O

Shakes MAR until his teeth clatter.

I'm talking to the boy.

Oh, I see use backquotes instead of single quotes.

``` <-- this

Yaaay!

'Hugs Dam.'

hmm?

hugged!

2:37 PM

oh backquote?

What the ... ?

It should be near your 1.

Oh

Now, I have the power.

Yay!

@JimReynolds What formatting?

@JimReynolds Oh no!

Lets MAR fall to the ground in a quivering heap.

2:39 PM

LOL

I think from now on you'll be doing this over and over.

:-)

Yes, until it's over.

Come to think of it, I think he has a point.

-1 because the dependent clause of the second sentence does not have to be read as adding 'extra information' — pazzo 1 hour ago

Of course he has. Getting ready for a slap from Jimbie's tentacles

2:42 PM

What if someone really means "as far as they remember"? (e.g. "I blah blah blah as far as I remember.")

(Maybe the speaker has some kind of mild amnesia.)

In any case, I think I would put a comma there in the OP's sentence.

I wouldn't.

I think a comma there is less likely in BrE.

It needs one to be standard.

I don't know why, but it seems so.

Always as long as I remember doesn't work.

2:46 PM

BUT!

I think the reason for -1 isn't justified.

We need snailboat!

And her books, and Google.

I think it is nonessential.

But... but... but she's a comma lover (like me)!

Haha.

2:48 PM

Don't get me wrong.

I love commas.

:D

But she would know something about the extent that it's "required" by people to be considered standard.

Only when they're included in the IUPAC nomenclature of organocompounds.

I'm inclined to not use them when there's much of a choice.

nods

2:49 PM

Essential = It cannot be a meaningful sentence without it.

The second clause is not essential.

Yes. I agree.

Well, there might be some very narrow gray area there.

But it would be unusual for a good writer to omit the comma there.

Very unusual, I submit.

It's corpus time!

Good idea.

I will be here intermittently for a while.

Some sentences from the minority:

> That is Dr. Zenker, too, and this part of the trace as far as I remember was very low pitch.

2:53 PM

for a while / for awhile ? either?

No!

I always use "for a while".

The problem is the "always"

Always as far as I remember.

I've always been a robot as far as I remember.

Should I try as far as I can remember instead.

@JimReynolds And I can remember only as far as three years back.

O.O

was trying to add a line to Jim's story.

2:56 PM

Is that when they gave your RAM to a microwave oven factory?

> The robot said, solemnly, "I've always been a robot as far as I remember." He paused, and then continued, "And I can remember only as far as three years back."

On my home planet, the fields contains lines of robots as far as you can see.

I've always liked them as far as I can remember.

:D

I've always driven cars as far as I can remember.

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Apr '1522

ELL's Cabin

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