ELL's Cabin

Damkerng T.

12:07 AM

Just for fun reading: dropbox.com/s/hlkwq5opw1ka7m0/…

Jim Reynolds

3:20 AM

@snailboat No! I couldn't understand your first Lake Michigan.

Jim Reynolds

5:50 AM

Well, first pass is looking for anything non understandable. The only instance for me was the word "I" in "I was in New York." I could not tell if it was "a city" or "the city", from your voice alone, but I think that would be common also if uttered by a native speaker.

(In reference to your reading of "Guy Noir".

Anonymous

8:19 AM

Well, there you have it. Jim thinks my /l/ is strange :-)

Anonymous

So I guess I was justified in calling it strange!

Damkerng T.

@JimReynolds Thanks for the feedback.

Anonymous

But in my whole life no one's ever actually told me that they thought my /l/ was hard to understand

Damkerng T.

Hello @snailboat!

Anonymous

So I've never felt any desire to change how I say it

Anonymous

8:21 AM

Maybe I will, though

Anonymous

I did have speech therapy when I was younger, but we concentrated on different sounds

Anonymous

Hello!

Anonymous

Anyway, as I mentioned before I do talk a little funny, which is why I usually don't make sample pronunciation recordings for learners myself :-)

Anonymous

Even though I'm a native speaker

Anonymous

I do think it's interesting that I often perceive /l/s that Jim does not

Damkerng T.

8:25 AM

I can't detect any such thing. I usually think of any differences in a speech pattern as a different accent, and English has so many different accents, so many possibilities.

Anonymous

Oh, for sure

Damkerng T.

@snailboat I'm guessing that maybe it's because you've learned Japanese.

And also possibly your interest in phonetics.

Anonymous

Expectation does influence perception, though, and none of our tests were blind

Damkerng T.

nods

I'm happy that finally we can figure out that it was because of the insertion of a schwa between /r/ and /l/.

I wish I could've figured that out sooner, but I put all my focus on /l/ instead of something around.

It's a good lesson for me next time, too. :-)

Damkerng T.

8:55 AM

1

Q: "at the moment" / "currently" with the present simple

I teach English. Recently, as I was getting prepared for one of my classes, I came across an exercise in a coursebook that was pretty confusing. The exercise gives students a list of time expressions (like: now, nowadays, this year, now, usually, etc.). The students must decide which of the give...

This question is interesting on multiple levels!

Actually, I picked up Meaning and the English Verb and was thinking about writing an answer, because I'd thought that it was only about the present simple vs. the present progressive. I changed my mind after seeing that it was mainly only about two words/phrases: currently, and at the time.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. How much is that book?

Anonymous

I still don't have it

Anonymous

(I've been getting books on Japanese and ignoring English :-)

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Ah, I bought it very, very cheap from Amazon Japan, but I think I bought the last one. Hehe! :-)

Anonymous

Ah! A used copy?

Damkerng T.

8:59 AM

Yes!

Anonymous

Nice!

Damkerng T.

Because when I looked at the page after that, it was out of stock!

Hee -- I was so lucky!

But now the OP just posted an answer (which is a non-answer), and I think their misunderstanding is not very far from what I thought, and very likely more complicated than what I thought!

And the OP is a teacher.

0

A: "at the moment" / "currently" with the present simple

Thank you for you input I`m afraid most of the examples that you gave have no explanation attached to them, or completely miss the point of my question. Let`s start from these: He needs your help at the moment. As we all know, the verb "need" cannot be used in the continues form as it belon...

^ The latest update.

Ah, hello @Araucaria!

Anonymous

It looks like they're trying to use the site as a discussion forum

Damkerng T.

Maybe they're more familiar with forums.

Anonymous

Examples might help: a) She currently lives in California. b) Are we not, at this very precise moment, in this ELL question together? — Damkerng T. 11 hours ago

Anonymous

9:03 AM

Yes! She lives in California at the moment.

Damkerng T.

I thought it could be a good clue!

Then we got two more answers, which are basically more examples!

@snailboat Oh, you mean you. :-)

> Usually "currently" is typically used with the present continues as it suggests an ongoing action or process (i.e. "I`m currently working on this very interesting project). Please, tell me why currently is used with a sentence describing a permanent state.

Maybe we need to redefine ongoing/permanent states for the OP.

I find it too difficult for me to untangle the misconceptions.

Anonymous

We need to look at whether the verb is stative.

Damkerng T.

Which the OP seems to be aware of it. (Well, sort of)

> As we all know, the verb "need" cannot be used in the continues form as it belongs to "non-progressive" group of verbs.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Hmm, I've always felt that aspect is a challenging topic

Anonymous

At least, it's challenging for me :-)

Damkerng T.

9:13 AM

Enough that Leech wrote a book on it. :-)

To me it seems like the OP's focal point of their understanding of the present simple vs. the present progressive is about permanent vs. ongoing.

Which is sort of true, but it's not the whole picture.

(I'm guessing they also mean "ongoing" when they say "temporary".)

Anonymous

If we look at a pair like "I live in California" and "I'm living in California"

Damkerng T.

Ah, a nice pair!

Anonymous

Comrie writes: "In such pairs, the non-Progressive refers to a more or less permanent state of affairs, whereas the Progressive refers to a more temporary state." (Aspect, p.37)

Anonymous

But maybe we can say the addition of a phrase like "at the moment" limits the former in time somewhat

Anonymous

In any case, it's a good question!

Damkerng T.

9:19 AM

It is! And it's difficult to answer as well!

Maybe I should promote my own maxim: Tense is not about what happens, it's about what the speaker thinks happens.

:P

Anonymous

I think the question is about aspect rather than tense

Damkerng T.

I wonder if they separate aspect out of tense.

Ah, this example sounds a bit iffy to me!

> "I'm currently washing the dishes. I'll join you in 10 minutes."

Anonymous

What about it sounds iffy?

Damkerng T.

I don't know why I think currently and washing the dishes don't look well together.

Anonymous

Maybe right now would be more conversational.

Damkerng T.

9:27 AM

nods

Anonymous

"Uh, hold on, I'm doing the dishes. Gimme a few minutes."

Damkerng T.

Yes!

I wonder if anyone will really say "currently washing anything", but it looks like someone does!

Anonymous

I probably wouldn't, but people have a lot of freedom in how to put words together :-)

Damkerng T.

Indeed!

Anonymous

I don't see anything wrong with that phrasing myself

Jim Reynolds

10:49 AM

@sna I just listened to it again. It's interesting! The first time I played it, I didn't know what it was going to be (except that it was uploaded by you).

I did not know what was said after "ball" on the first playing.

What went through my mind, was "point Michigan", then "Maybe not. Was it 'Flint, Michigan'"?

Then the night passed before I saw the message where you asked me if I heard your /l/s.

So I replied from memory, but I was secretly a little worried.

Worried that I wasn't correctly remembering what I had perceived!

But now I listened to it again. And again what first comes into my mind is "Point Michigan!"

Ah. Now I just listened to it about six times. After the second, which insisted on being "point", I heard it as "lake" and now there's no going back. Yes. Like just a version. How some people might speak.

Damkerng T.

11:25 AM

Evening, @Jim!

Jim Reynolds

Hi there!

Damkerng T.

Hi!

Did you get a good sleep?

I was worried that you might have too few hours in your sleep.

Jim Reynolds

I think it was almost 4!

Damkerng T.

Ahh... that's a bit too few!

Jim Reynolds

Yes, it's really not the best idea for me. But I don't know. I felt fine, actually.

Damkerng T.

11:27 AM

Hehe!

Glad to hear that.

Jim Reynolds

I got to sleep until around 10.

Lately, I've noticed that my body and brain in some way seem to want to get up before some other part of me does in the morning.

Damkerng T.

:D

That was kinda mysterious. :-)

Jim Reynolds

I tried to think about how to express what I think the next most-important thing I hear in the Noir reading that is different than something that's more native in one way or another.

Damkerng T.

figuring out what else Jim has besides body and brains... maybe tentacles...

Jim Reynolds

Well, I have to report that some parts made me think of a mechanical voice (that theme again).

I guess it's like some part of me is actually buzzing to get up.

But something wants to keep sleeping.

Damkerng T.

11:31 AM

I was trying to play a narrator in that reading.

Jim Reynolds

It might be interesting to try to understand those things more. Or maybe the opposite: Figure out a way to just get my tentacles out of bed at a regular time, because I really suppose that is what makes me end up feeling the best.

Yeah. I found some of the PHC YouTube recordings.

Damkerng T.

:D

Jim Reynolds

But actually, I think I might take a nap now.

I got home, and have almost finished my drink.

Damkerng T.

I haven't heard the original reading of that script, so I recalled a voice from an old radio drama I've heard.

@JimReynolds Good idea!

Jim Reynolds

Right. I can feel what you are doing with it.

Damkerng T.

11:34 AM

Hehe!

Jim Reynolds

There is a lot in there to notice.

OK. I'm going to see if I want to sleep a bit!

Damkerng T.

Sleep tight! (in case you want to sleep)

Hello @Fantasier!

Fantasier

Hello all!

Damkerng T.

Welcome to the room!

Damkerng T.

11:54 AM

0

Q: Word Stress in What am I supposed to do?

I heard this question: "What am I supposed to do?" asked often by native speakers in movies. I'm sure the stress is changing depending on the context, however I think there is a default unemphatic context used in everyday speech. For example: Person A and B are speaking. Person A: I'm not impre...

american-english pronunciation american-accent phonetics

Ah, he chopped half a sentence off!

dropbox.com/s/s91g9r9vbob18x5/…

(my imaginative responses, recorded before checking out the YouTube clip; I was a bit laid-back and a bit away from the mic than usual.)

Jim Reynolds

1:53 PM

Hi. Oh no. I slept for 2+ hours!

Damkerng T.

That's good! I expected you to sleep longer.

Jim Reynolds

:-)

I'm very sensitive and delicate when I wake up from a too-long nap!

Damkerng T.

Aww... I guess you're quite sensitive now, then. :P

Jim Reynolds

Yes, but slowly coming back to life, and there's a good side to the sensitive state.

Damkerng T.

Yay!

Jim Reynolds

2:06 PM

I'm more deeply aware how much my doggies' kisses and cat's cuddles mean.

Damkerng T.

Hehe!

Jim Reynolds

And having my friend here online :D

And my partner came up and helped to wake me up with smiles and teasing me.

Damkerng T.

Eww... (in a good way)

Jim Reynolds

And all the actors are just downstairs singing and dancing, rehearsing for a show they will perform in a couple days.

Hahaha

Eww is . . . a little yucky!

But in a sort of teasing way, it's great.

Damkerng T.

Sometimes we Eww when we don't really mean Eww. :-)

Jim Reynolds

2:08 PM

Awww.

I know. :-)

And I'm smiling.

Our empathy circuits may start to fry with my pure emotional expression. O.O

Damkerng T.

o_O

I think they don't. :-)

checking the circuits... still look good. :-)

Jim Reynolds

I even feel like saying something nice to @MAR

O.o

So you know my emotional state is in rare form.

Damkerng T.

Maybe his lit. exam was too tough.

Jim Reynolds

Oh no!!!

He could be limp on a floor somewhere!

Damkerng T.

I haven't seen him for two days already, I think.

Maybe!

Let's see if his spirit is still hovering around...

Hello @MARamezani!

Anonymous

2:13 PM

@DamkerngT. I'm sure he was top of the fish.

Damkerng T.

Or Crème de la crème!

Is that the word?

Jim Reynolds

O.O

When I was expressing so emotionally, I thought of the word maudlin.

It's a lovely word.

Damkerng T.

Oh, that's a new word for me!

I can't even relate the word to any word I already knew!

Jim Reynolds

Awww. I was able to give Dam the gift of wonderment! Hugs his dear robot friend cloyingly.

O.0

Damkerng T.

hugging back...

Jim Reynolds

2:19 PM

In the voice of Shirley Temple: Things are never so bad. Why I just know we can raise enough money to save the orphanage!

Does that ring your cultually-tuned sensors, @sna?

Damkerng T.

I think there is a recent remake...

But what's the title?! ...

Jim Reynolds

Here's how I feel: youtube.com/watch?v=J_LLPYo7Ykc

Damkerng T.

Eh, A Little Princess?

Ahh... Curly Top!

lol

Jim Reynolds

I come in at 1:10.

O.O

Damkerng T.

LOL!

Jim Reynolds

2:22 PM

:-)

Damkerng T.

My first lol was for the rhyme of "Curly Top, you're a little wonderful toy" with wonderment and cloyingly. My second LOL was of course because of your coming in at 1:10. :D

Ah, I think I mixed joy up with toy, but that's okay!

Hey, I was in there too! (came in at 1:19, the nodding guy. :-)

Jim Reynolds

The non-chef guy.

Damkerng T.

:D

Jim Reynolds

Who is the cook? Not snailboat?

Damkerng T.

Maybe MAR!

Jim Reynolds

2:34 PM

O.O

I can see MAR throwing pizza dough up in the air.

I don't know why.

Damkerng T.

LOL

Jim Reynolds

Oh, I remember I first thought he was Italian.

Damkerng T.

MAR? Hehe!

Jim Reynolds

And at very, very first, female Italian.

Damkerng T.

Hah!

Jim Reynolds

2:36 PM

Yes. The name. Amenzani. For some reason says "Italian" to me.

There's Mari Lou ... something?

Damkerng T.

Ahh... makes sense.

Jim Reynolds

I think she is Italian.

Damkerng T.

I'm not sure. Probably.

Jim Reynolds

In my first days around ELU and here, I fused them mentally.

O.O

Damkerng T.

Oh, I remember she mentioned pizza once, so I guess yes, about being Italian.

Jim Reynolds

2:37 PM

If I have psychic powers, they could get married some day!

OR someday.

Is it always someday?

Damkerng T.

o_O

Jim Reynolds

Hi @Will

Damkerng T.

I think both are acceptable forms.

Good evening, @WillHunting!

Will Hunting

@JimReynolds Hi, I see you are talking about Mari Lou A.

@DamkerngT. Hi.

Jim Reynolds

Yes. Is she Italian?

Will Hunting

2:38 PM

It seems so to me for some reason.

Jim Reynolds

So I put together the knowledge that there was an Italian female, and MAR's (to me) Italian-sounding name, and I got Ms. MAR Italiana!

Damkerng T.

Hehe!

MARamezani

3:32 PM

Hullo world!

Damkerng T.

Hullo, chemling!

How was your test going?

MARamezani

Sheesh.

Damkerng T.

!

MARamezani

Better not talk about it. :}

Damkerng T.

Okay!

MARamezani

3:41 PM

The teacher suddenly went all angry when someone wanted to cheat,

and then basically, all of us were screwed.

Damkerng T.

Oh, no!

I guess there's going to be a new test.

MARamezani

No. There's no time.

In May somedayth, our Khordad exams commence. (aka second-term exams)

Damkerng T.

nods

It's just next month.

MARamezani

It's basically the end of the semester.

AND THEN IT'S SUMMER!

Freaking out again, jumps and hits the ceiling

Damkerng T.

LOL

MARamezani

3:45 PM

I'm kinda both the cat and the mouse in the current situation

Damkerng T.

:-)

MARamezani

My god!

I think there's something wrong with me.

:(

Damkerng T.

?

MARamezani

I think I attract fights.

Somehow.

Damkerng T.

What happened?

On Chem SE?

MARamezani

3:49 PM

Yes. More precisely, both chemistry and chat.

Sigh

I think my being helpful is interpreted the wrong way.

No. I think there's something wrong with that KID.

You see @Dam, I think someone my age is really immature.

Damkerng T.

Oh, it's the same user?

MARamezani

The same?

Damkerng T.

that you mentioned before, some days ago.

MARamezani

Suspended for plagiarism? Exactly.

Damkerng T.

Ahh

MARamezani

3:52 PM

You remember that meta.SE post?

Damkerng T.

Not sure if it's the meta, but I remember plagiarism.

MARamezani

Okay, so I'll try to tell you the story. But you won't see the deleted comments.

This answer "looks OK". But maybe you should be working on the quality of that image. Maybe a larger resolution. — MARamezani yesterday

chemistry.stackexchange.com/questions/29016/…

Oh, that comment is deleted. But I was simply saying "to request clarification...". Ya know, the SE template for VLQ posts.

Damkerng T.

It's interesting to see a picture posted as an answer!

MARamezani

@DamkerngT. But with that quality... Ya know, his comment is deleted, but he replied me as

Damkerng T.

jonsca is a mod on Chem SE, right?

MARamezani

3:57 PM

> Why don't you go buy a new camera for me?

Damkerng T.

Hehe!

MARamezani

@DamkerngT. Yep. A nice mod. Reminds me of J.R.

@DamkerngT. Among other offenses I don't clearly remember.

So, he came to chat and said: You here?

@Dam you can read this log to see what happened.

in The Periodic Table, yesterday, by ADG

@MARamezani come here

Start from that message.

Damkerng T.

Come here, is a very odd start of a conversation.

MARamezani

@DamkerngT. "Why are you acting so stupid" is better.

@Dam I suddenly went offline, otherwise we ended up in a Arrow fight.

Damkerng T.

nods -- Smart move.

MARamezani

4:01 PM

@DamkerngT. I didn't go offline deliberately though.

Well, honestly, as I wanna express my opinion about that kid (he's 16, like me)

I remember he was boasting that he reached 10k in math.SE.

So, in his opinion, a chemistry PhD, (i.e. Martin) doesn't know as much as him.

Damkerng T.

LOL

MARamezani

DOESN'T KNOW AS MUCH AS HIM because Martin's rep doesn't say so.

So, I leave you to decide what kind of a teen he is.

Damkerng T.

Maybe it happens on every stack.

MARamezani

I hate that kinda people.

@Dam see this:

chemistry.stackexchange.com/posts/28993/revisions

So, basically, anyone with lesser knowledge than him is...

Damkerng T.

That user is obviously a non-native speaker.

I wonder what they think of their English.

MARamezani

4:09 PM

Yes. But is superior to all!

@DamkerngT. Ya know, I had internet issues with ISP, and suddenly went offline. What I really would've liked to see when back is that user suspended.

I'm actually having a hard time figuring out why he isn't.

He's been insulting the best chemists there a lot in the past, so I've heard.

Damkerng T.

Maybe you can write a note to a mod, and let the mods decide.

Was there a mod in Chem room?

MARamezani

Never seen Jonsca there.

But Manish comes from time to time.

Not enough frequency though.

Hehe! Guess what @Dam!

Damkerng T.

What?

MARamezani

Snailboat took a visit there.

Damkerng T.

Hehe. :-)

MARamezani

4:13 PM

(I flagged three messages of that guy.)

Damkerng T.

You mean now?

MARamezani

Yep.

Damkerng T.

Okay. Good!

Ah, it's the second or the third time I've ever seen "fed up" on SE!

MARamezani

The guy just left one-sentence-long answers. They got flagged as VLQ, and I was the first commentator on, say, 10 of them.

@DamkerngT. Well, his last message is "**** this site. I'm fed up."

Damkerng T.

nods

MARamezani

4:19 PM

BTW, see the comments on this question to get some image. (And the deleted comments are invisible, of course):

What is ox? How would you assign more stable, i.e. with respect to what more stable? For complexes you need all d orbitals in the first place, hybridisation with d orbitals is a stretch. — Martin 2 days ago

Damkerng T.

nods

MARamezani

0

Q: Usage of tense in "I'm making you all personally responsible for his deliverance"

[Farell uncuffs Cage's hands and turns to the squad] Sgt Farell: Private Cage is a deserter, I'm making you all personally responsible for his deliverance. He will be combat ready at 06:00 tomorrow. Cage: Combat ready? Sgt Farell: Private Cage is under the delusion that he ...

tense illocutionary-act

Aaah! Back to ELL stuff.

Damkerng T.

Yay!

MARamezani

Look who it is Dam. It's the...

Damkerng T.

Wait, is that a new tag?

@MARamezani Our Modal Guy!

MARamezani

4:30 PM

What guy?

Aaah. Modal guy.

I think the next tag will be created and named confectionery-act.

Damkerng T.

Hehe!

I have no good explanation, but I think it's similar to I beg your pardon vs. I'm begging you.

MARamezani

Sheesh. Sargents and military thingies again.

Damkerng T.

Hehe!

I still haven't watch that one.

But looks like a fun ride.

MARamezani

Today I got reminded of a movie named in pursuit of happyness.

Damkerng T.

Aww... That's a great movie!

MARamezani

4:37 PM

It's very touching. I rarely get influenced by this stuff, but this one was something else.

Damkerng T.

4:51 PM

Hello, @MrTheWalrus!

MARamezani

Hullo @MrTheWalrus!

I wonder why there are so many usernames starting with M.

Damkerng T.

M is popular!

MARamezani

Because it's the first letter of MAR. That's for sure.

Damkerng T.

Hmm... just got another thought for I'm making you ...

Make is about transformation.

> As I recall, lots of performative verbs like advise, permit, promise, warn, etc. are used with present simple rather than the present continuous to perform a speech act.

I think there are a lot of exceptions to that... "I'm warning you (...)." also sounds okay to me.

(con't on transformation) That's why I think I made you ... (and also I'm making you ...) is more likely than I make you ....

MARamezani

I'm making you seems like military official language already.

Better ask Law. :}

Damkerng T.

5:05 PM

:D

MARamezani

Just make sure you don't make sentences that have antecedents of any sort.

Damkerng T.

o_O

MARamezani

OwwK, so 1 is what that Dam calls as a time-will-tell issue. About 2, already almost all of the regs have participated in the new room and that's over, and about 3, the necessary actions have been pulled out. Thanks everyone for reading...Case closed. — MARamezani 24 secs ago

Ah, I take it you're testing our room slash temper @MrTheWalrus, huh? :P

Damkerng T.

@MARamezani You closed the case! :-)

MrTheWalrus

Who, me? I just enjoy taking a break at work and thinking about a language that isn't only spoken by computers for little while.

MARamezani

5:13 PM

@DamkerngT. My briefcase.

@MrTheWalrus Hullo! Welcome to the room!

@MrTheWalrus But @Dam is a computer!

Damkerng T.

LOL

MARamezani

A very advanced one though. It's a conspiracy.

@MrTheWalrus BTW, as I always need to remind everyone the golden rule:

> Never take me and Jim seriously here, unless we said so.

(And having us saying so needs 1337 skills)

MrTheWalrus

Ha! Good to know.

MARamezani

Another proof of the SEs mobile masterpiece.

0

Q: Search function — where is it?

I don't seem to be able to find the search function. How do I search for questions with a certain tag or containing a certain string? I use an iPhone. I'm sure I used to be able to access "search".

support

MARamezani

5:52 PM

Guys, is it just me or is SEs chat server acting weird?

Anonymous

Yeah, it just had problems for a minute or two.

MARamezani

Hullo!

Thanks for the cleanup back at chemistry's chat!

Jim Reynolds

6:34 PM

There's a search for the search function?

Damkerng T.

A search for the search function?

Is that a meta question of some kind?! :-)

MARamezani

Well, when I entered the meta.ELL today, my eyes searched for the question that searched for the search function using the search to put it here on discussion for a search to find the answer which could easily be found by some research.

Damkerng T.

Oh, it was about that Meta Q.

Damkerng T.

7:02 PM

Hmm... maybe "what X was having in mind" is obsolete... Most hits on Google seem to be from another century.

Damkerng T.

7:53 PM

Argh! I'm running out of my votes again!

Transcript for