The Whiteboard

durron597

6:01 PM

@Snowman I was thinking about @Telastyn actually

Telastyn

? I just got back from lunch

durron597

22 mins ago, by MichaelT

What would be useful would be for a user of workplace, or other site with similar "lots closed and deleted same day" would pipe up with a supporting answer.

Looking for someone with a lot of rep on a site other than programmers that isn't a diamond to post about needing more close votes

30

Q: Refund close votes for questions deleted on the same day

When a question is deleted the same vote-day as it was closed, refund the close votes cast on the question. There are three situations where this comes up: Question has a close vote or two, a comment tells the OP that this is off topic (or about issues with the question) and the OP self delete...

Telastyn

ah. I don't do a lot of moderation there, just close votes for obvious bad things I see - much like programmers, though workplace has a lot more dupes and rants.

Thomas Owens

I don't understand why the fact that a local variable not being initialized is a compile time error (at least according to Eclipse - I need to see if it is according to Java).

Maybe, just maybe, if certain conditions aren't met, I want "null" to be passed into the function call at the end.

It just feels so dirty to ... var = null just to make a message go away.

enderland

@GlenH7 ?

user114359

6:07 PM

9

A: What is the difference in memory between a variable assigned to null and one not assigned

There is no difference between the two "in memory." From the Java Language Specification, 4.12.5. Initial Values of Variables : Every variable in a program must have a value before its value is used: Each class variable, instance variable, or array component is initialized with a d...

user41796

@enderland Running joke that 1/2 of the site will disappear if any of the mods ever attempt to learn Haskell

Thomas Owens

@Snowman That's stupid.

But whatever.

@GlenH7 Challenge accepted.

What kinds of projects are good to learn Haskell?

enderland

@GlenH7 oh. lol. "F THIS HASKELL JUNK GONNA DELETE IT ALL" ?

Thomas Owens

I also have the Haskell book that everyone recommended at one point.

user41796

< grabs popcorn, props up feet. />

Thomas Owens

6:09 PM

I think it has a bug on the front of it. Does that say something about the language?

user114359

@ThomasOwens I disagree, it helps remove one entire type of logic error that is present in certain other languages (C).

durron597

> If a declarator does not have an initialization expression, then every reference to the variable must be preceded by execution of an assignment to the variable, or a compile-time error occurs by the rules of §16.

user41796

@ThomasOwens monad to purge all the low quality (read: all) questions on the current burninate lists....

durron597

docs.oracle.com/javase/specs/jls/se7/html/…

Thomas Owens

I still think that this should be valid:

durron597

6:09 PM

@ThomasOwens Why does it feel dirty to initialize a local variable? It's dirty not to

Thomas Owens

Integer x;
if (var) {
  x = new Integer();
}
myMethod(x);

durron597

I hope that's just an example, never use Integer over int unless you're doing something with generics

Telastyn

I think I did a tiny map generator when I was learning Haskell

Thomas Owens

@durron597 Yeah. It's actually my own class.

But I wanted a quick example to type.

user114359

Put in an else {} in there or assign it null to begin with and it works.

user41796

6:11 PM

I'm old school C that way - never trust the compiler with initializations; always initialize on the declaration

user114359

Integer x;
if (var) {
x = new Integer();
}
else {
x = <something else>;
}
myMethod(x);

Thomas Owens

Yeah. I'm going to assign it to null at the beginning. To me, though, that just looks wrong since I know that, by default, it's null anyway.

durron597

@ThomasOwens What's x if !var?

Thomas Owens

@durron597 It's supposed to be null.

user114359

@ThomasOwens but according to the Java Language Specification it is not null by default in this case (declared on the stack).

durron597

6:12 PM

    Integer x = var ? makeInteger() : null;

// snip

private Integer makeInteger() {

Thomas Owens

@durron597 There's more than just a new object.

@Snowman That's stupid. The spec should force everything to be initialized, then. That just seems inconsistent behavior.

user41796

@ThomasOwens And this is why my old-school C habits persist

user114359

@ThomasOwens actually, it does force everything to be initialized. The only caveat is there is a list of default initializers for variables declared at the class or object level.

durron597

@ThomasOwens local variables need initialization, fields don't. What's not consistent?

user114359

And the compiler enforces that, giving the error that you saw.

Thomas Owens

6:14 PM

@durron597 The fact that a variable in one scope needs explicitly initialization and in another doesn't.

durron597

@ThomasOwens Snowman is correct. field level variables basically replace Object foo; with Object foo = null;

Thomas Owens

@durron597 I know he's correct. But it's not consistent or intuitive.

durron597

@ThomasOwens See my edit

@ThomasOwens I vtc that as primarily opinion based ;)

user114359

If it were up to me, every object reference would require explicit initialization.

Thomas Owens

Anyway, Haskell.

@Snowman Same.

In fact, I may start.

Just because I can.

Ixrec

6:17 PM

@ThomasOwens At least Java doesn't have three different kinds of implicit initialization

Thomas Owens

I own this Haskell book.

And I know about Learn You a Haskell for Great Good.

durron597

Java does it the way we've just described to make this snippet legal:

public class Application{

   public static void main(String[] args){
      final int n;

      if(false) {
        n = 3;
      } else {
        n = 4;
      }

      System.out.println(n);
   }
}

Thomas Owens

Is there anything else I need, other than an IDE?

user41796

A project that won't delete 1/2 of Progs....

Thomas Owens

Is that in one of the books?

A project to delete half of Programmers, I mean.

user114359

6:19 PM

@durron597 good point, the "final" semantics demand that the compiler track initialization.

user41796

@ThomasOwens I'm not prepared to accept Haskell into my heart yet, so I haven't really looked.

durron597

if you try to assign n again, the compiler throws it out. but the above is okay.

Thomas Owens

eclipsefp.github.io

user41796

I'm content remaining ignorant of higher orders of programming.

Thomas Owens

That's my IDE. I think I have everything I need to delete half of Prog.

durron597

6:20 PM

And using final in that way also matters for passing local variables into anonymous classes

user114359

@durron597 I never did understand why that was required.

user41796

13 mins ago, by GlenH7

< grabs popcorn, props up feet. />

Thomas Owens

Actually, I'm a good engineer. I wouldn't write code to delete half of Programmers. I'd write code to delete half of any Stack Exchange site input. I'll just pass in something like Stack Overflow.

user114359

If you are going to delete half of any SE site, may I recommend lifehacks.stackexchange.com ?

enderland

@ThomasOwens its ominous you report this back 15 min after starting playing with haskell...

Thomas Owens

6:28 PM

@enderland I haven't started yet.

I'm still at work.

I'll start this weekend.

enderland

ugh. you guys and programming outside of work....

2

Telastyn

if I didn't program outside of work, I'd never do it as a living.

whatsisname

@Snowman: Agreed

Ixrec

If I didn't program as a living I might have time to program outside of work

4

Telastyn

also true

durron597

6:45 PM

So I'm trying to figure out a balance: how many upvotes should I shoot for per day trying to get my Java gold badge on SO without spending too much time answering crap questions that I don't shoot my own brains out?

I need 290 more upvotes.

Answering questions like this one just make me want to cry because I know I'm helping someone to further their madness

Ixrec

reminds me of when I spent a day in the SO regex tag, and my best answer was "you shouldn't use regex for that"

enderland

wow. you can buy a GOLD macbook now

wtf apple

user55340

> Please remove the moderator comment, clear the migration information (only so much stuff can be shown there) and historical lock this question... or get SE to migrate it to the workplace and see how many dirty looks you can get at the same time. – MichaelT yesterday helpful

user55340

@enderland if you want to pay more for something, why should any company stop you?

Ixrec

@enderland How else are you going to make it match your gold iWatch?

enderland

6:53 PM

@MichaelT this feels like april fools. who in the world would want a GOLD laptop (not real gold, either, just gold color)

user55340

Also, consider that certain colors are significant in other cultures.

user55340

Look at gold in India and China and think "emerging market"

user114359

I want a gold MacBook to match my teeth

enderland

@MichaelT apple laptops are ridiculously expensive in most countries in the world

user55340

So?

Ampt

6:54 PM

You've been able to get gold iphones for a while

pretty natural next step

user55340

Have you looked at the avail of the iPhones in various markets?

Ampt

honestly macbooks are pretty decently priced. I mean they're like the Mustang or Camaro's of computers

enderland

@Ampt yeah I have wanted to upgrade my 2010 macbook pro for a while now... since I like it so much :)

Ixrec

incidentally, do any of you work at a company that felt the need to have an app on Apple Watch on day one? (I do, curious how common this is)

user55340

Day 1? No. Will I get one? Yes.

user114359

6:58 PM

My employer doesn't develop for any Apple products.

user55340

I really look forward to what Emerald will do.

Ixrec

@MichaelT Which models are you looking at?

user55340

emeraldsequoia.com/h - iPhone app.

user55340

Forgot the specifics. Large, chain mail link strap.

whatsisname

0

Q: Required clarification about GPL licence for creating extensions of GPL software

I asked a question here, i got quite good answers ,i read all answers and other sources about my question, I have concluded if i write my code and distribute it to my clients for a free under my own licence and ask them to download F3 separately at their own. My code won't be covered under GPL l...

licensing gpl wordpress

this question/answer needs help

Ampt

7:03 PM

Help! I need somebody

Help! Not just anybody!

durron597

@Ampt Somebody to love?

user15026

@Ampt I am singing this now

Ampt

@AshleyNunn MISSION: SUCCESS!

user55340

Can it be anybody?

Thomas Owens

@durron597 When I'm 64.

Ixrec

7:05 PM

I like that the accepted answer is effectively a comment stating why it's off-topic

user55340

When I'm 0x40

durron597

@MichaelT Hopefully your cottage in the Isle of Wight has wifi

user114359

@whatsisname I edited the question so that not only does it consist of English words, it also parses using the English grammar.

whatsisname

nice

durron597

yeah so I already ate an entire package of this:

freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2015/04/08/…

By myself

and I can't even return it for a refund bc i threw out the case

Thomas Owens

7:10 PM

That's the kind of hummus I usually get, too.

Haven't had any for a while, though.

durron597

It's passover right now, i've been buying it to make matzoh more edible

user55340

poppyfields.net/filks/00252.html poppyfields.net/filks/00251.html

Duga

You may want to ask this on Programmers Stack Exchange since it's purely conceptual. — SomethingDark 1 min ago

user55340

Hmm. ChrisF is on a major cross site moderating kick. Seeing him all over MSO and p.se flags and such. Go Chris!

Ampt

]

Duga

7:16 PM

@SomethingDark Programmers.SE has the same close reasons as here: this question would be closed as "too broad" if migrated. While Programmers is for conceptual questions, they must be reasonably scoped as to be able to be answered without writing a novel. — Snowman 25 secs ago

durron597

7:31 PM

I swear I can't even find questions that I know are duplicates to repwhore on

They're all just. so. bad.

Ixrec

http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/278772/how-to-generate-strings-from-regular-expression-in-c-or-python
I'm tempted to give him a quick answer about FSMs but I know I'm not supposed to answer crap either...

durron597

@Ixrec I'm talking about SO now fwiw

enderland

I'm so tempted to take 2 hours vaca right now

ugh

Telastyn

that is the one nice thing about this particular job

durron597

@enderland Ask a non-awful Java question so I can answer it

Telastyn

7:33 PM

really flexible about time/location

durron597

I figure if I can get 10 upvotes a day I'll have my gold badge in a month

enderland

@durron597 how do I build a vacation calculator using java kthxplz

user55340

@Snowman that 3d array question is s duplicate.

durron597

@enderland I said non-awful

Telastyn

"Why exactly can't we have nice things in Java?"

user55340

7:34 PM

-3

Q: 3D Array Size determination

Given a number n, determine if this number n is the number of elements that can be stored in the array This is an interview question . So I'm seeking for faster algorithms and the logic behind it for study purposes. I don't want it to be general question. So below are the constraints 1 is not...

java algorithms programming-languages data-structures array

user55340

-7

Q: Determine Valid size of 3D array

Given a number n, determine if this number n that can be a valid size for 3D array. This is an interview question from before but what I did is the brute force(which is n^3). So I'm seeking for faster algorithms and the logic behind it for study purposes. Edit: The n must be greater than 1. So ...

algorithms array

user114359

@MichaelT Good find. I would vote if I had any left.

durron597

@enderland Also, your question is a cv-dup, see: stackoverflow.com/questions/8491894/javabat-help-alarmclock

enderland

@durron597 no that question had code, I want a gimme-teh-codez question

user55340

@Snowman if nothing else, up vote my comment so others may see it.

user55340

7:39 PM

@Snowman the answers to the regex homework on SO are saying "use this lib" - which is completely wrong for academic. But the right answer for other situations.

user114359

@MichaelT which comment?

user114359

Also, Yannis closed that array question as a dupe

user55340

It was auto deleted as part of duping.

user114359

Which is good, I think all of us regulars are using up all of our votes for burnination.

user55340

Comment with "duplicate" + link to duplicate target --> deleted when closed as a duplicate.

user114359

7:43 PM

I thought that was only when you VTC as duplicate

HotelCalifornia

well anyway

315

Q: Open letter to students with homework problems

It is September once again (today is the 7316th day of September), and once again students are asking their homework problems on Stack Overflow and Programmers.SE. We start seeing questions like: A car dealer has 10 salespersons. Each salesperson keeps track of the number of cars sold each m...

discussion faq questions

durron597

I feel so dirty when I answer questions in a technology I've never used before by 5 minutes of googling. I need a shower.

user55340

That is one form of the comment. But if you comment manually, it does it too.

Yannis Rizos

@Snowman If the bulk of the comment is a link to the dupe, it goes away. Same with migration comments where the bulk of them is the target site.

HotelCalifornia

I really enjoyed reading that letter

user55340

7:50 PM

@HotelCalifornia thank you.

HotelCalifornia

I'm glad there are people who have given that problem honest thought

durron597

Please google for me and I'll give you rep

When do the tag counts reset? Once per day?

user55340

The thing students often miss is that our industry solutions tend to be more... Pragmatic. And completely wrong for academic solutions (and many times require proper understanding of the academic solution in the first place)

Telastyn

enh. I'd say they mostly miss that reading code teaches almost nothing compared to making code.

HotelCalifornia

Oh, like this guy and his concept of the 'real world'

damn

hides in a corner because of his awful formatting skills

user55340

7:54 PM

Missed the http://

user55340

And you can just paste the link in chat to one box it.

HotelCalifornia

yeah, but link text

user55340

I'm on mobile. One boxes are better for me than links.

HotelCalifornia

-5

Q: Why are garbage collectors still in vogue

Why is garbage collection still popular as a normative idea? I understand why it's popular with programmers, but why is it still fashionable with academics, language researchers and the like? In a strict, factual sense, I think the GC debate is settled, and has been for many years. Garbage colle...

java language-design garbage-collection

it's been linked before, but there you go

user55340

Academic vs industry have different driving factors

durron597

8:02 PM

Hm. A user posts a really long question with a lot of information that is not relevant to the actual problem they're having. How do you all feel about removing all the irrelevant info?

user55340

Do it.

user15026

@durron597 If it doesn't have to do with the problem, take it out.

durron597

0

Q: If a user posts a question with too much information, is it a good edit to remove it?

Recently a user posted this question, which had an awful lot of information that was not really relevant to their real problem. I took it out. Generally speaking, is removing such red-herring information the the right thing to do? It was a much more substantive edit than I usually make - usually...

discussion edits

user15026

"Objective 1.7 of the 220-801 exam lists the IDE (PATA) and SATA speeds in
Table 12-1. Be sure to memorize these."

user15026

Do not waaaaaaant.

durron597

8:10 PM

@RobertHarvey You think?

durron597

8:27 PM

Anyone here know Spring well?

Robert Harvey

It's MVC, right? :P

user114359

My truck has some springs

Telastyn

I know to avoid it.

user20683

@durron597 @MichaelT does

Ixrec

http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/278772/how-to-generate-strings-from-regular-expression-in-c-or-python#comment573655_278772

@Snowman could you give an example of having to "dumb down" your work in a school setting?

(also how do you make a link to a comment turn expand to show the whole comment in chat?)

durron597

8:31 PM

@MichaelT Is this a duplicate of this ?

Telastyn

In my current class I've had to walk my professor through some stuff

like unit tests.

Robert Harvey

@Telastyn Oof. >_<

Ixrec

@Telastyn ...that's pretty bad

Robert Harvey

@durron597 Those two questions don't look even remotely the same.

user114359

@Ixrec I was writing a DFA processor for a class on formal languages. I had a really simple and efficient implementation that did not use the algorithm the professor wanted. His algorithm sucked, but it got me an A.

Telastyn

8:32 PM

and why I used immutable objects in Java.

user114359

I had a professor get confused about my use of a BigDecimal for querying decimal data via JDBC instead of using double

Telastyn

I'm going to get an A regardless because I think only 1 other student is actually going to produce assembly (this is a compilers course)

durron597

@RobertHarvey The old question is "how do I do XYZ?" the new question is "how do I do XYZ which is a task that is done this other way in this other framework?"

but XYZ = XYZ, i think.

user55340

7

A: Spring and passing parameters to factory-method in runtime

Reading across 20 posts, I found that it was not apparent how to get a custom factory method to take parameters at run-time, especially since we are forced to use the constructor-arg tags and refer to an existing bean in the context as setup below and the class in question acting as a static fact...

user55340

My reading is yes, it's a duplicate.

user114359

8:34 PM

We were querying money data too, so arbitrary-precision is always better than floating point. I showed her that there are methods on ResultSet to get BigDecimals and that they are better, and have existed since about Java 1.2.

durron597

@MichaelT I think so too, but I don't know Spring very well.

Robert Harvey

@MichaelT Is the original a canonical question? Because if it's not, that's a hard sell.

user55340

3

Q: What is the Spring equivalent to FactoryModuleBuilder, @AssistedInject, and @Assisted in Guice?

What is the Spring Framework equivalent to FactoryModuleBuilder, @AssistedInject, and @Assisted in Google Guice? In other words, what is the recommended approach using Spring to create factory objects whose methods accept arguments that the application (not the container) must provide?

java spring guice

Robert Harvey

Yes, that one.

Seems like it's more specific.

durron597

FactoryModuleBuilder is how Guice passes parameters to factory methods in runtime, @RobertHarvey.

user55340

8:35 PM

@RobertHarvey doesn't appear to be too common of a question and no cannon to them.

durron597

Like, that exact sentence might be in the documentation for FactoryModuleBuilder.

Robert Harvey

@durron597 Ask a gold badge holder to dupe it, then.

That's why they have the mighty hammer.

user55340

The linked answer exactly answers the duplicate candidate.

durron597

Well I could put one vote down

Robert Harvey

Yes, but answers don't a duplicate question make, unless the question is canonical.

@MichaelT You've got a Java gold badge, right?

durron597

8:37 PM

@RobertHarvey I'm not proposing question deletion

@RobertHarvey He only has 1500 rep on SO ;)

user55340

Silver here. Nothing on so.

Robert Harvey

No, but you can't merge them either. Generally, good dupes make decent merge candidates.

durron597

The guy could have asked the exact same question without referencing Guice.

Robert Harvey

The gold badge holders have the necessary expertise to dupe questions in this way.

I don't.

user55340

Java is fgitw. I need dedicated answer time. And env. Can't do that on work machine.

durron597

8:39 PM

@MichaelT The question is 13 hours old. Guice questions tend to make it to the other side of FGITW

user55340

Still can't do it on work machine.

Robert Harvey

You avoided answering my question yesterday and you are straight-up lying here. I'm done trying to protect you. — Shog9 ♦ 2 hours ago

durron597

I compromised. VTC and answered it referencing the other answer.

Robert Harvey

Yikes.

Dig a little deeper, and you'll need popcorn.

Ixrec

Yikes indeed

Robert Harvey

8:44 PM

24

Q: Abrupt change in moderation staff?

Myself and a few others just noticed that HopelessN00b and Chris S are no longer listed as moderators. What is the story behind this?

discussion

ServerFault is never without its share of drama.

user55340

@RobertHarvey shog loves SF.

enderland

@RobertHarvey oh yeah. thats a dramafest there, especially comments...

Robert Harvey

Eh, that's not really a moderator's job.

HotelCalifornia

heh, 4/5 of the questions in the new feed items box are awful questions

Ixrec

I'm not seeing the part with the "straight-up lying" in it; did I miss something?

Robert Harvey

8:49 PM

Massive, wholesale cleanup of an entire subject, without discussing it on Meta first? Someone took their eye off the ball.

Shog9 claims that the cleanup was automated, or at least rubber-stamped, one post at a time. He's probably right, or he wouldn't have said it.

It's easy enough to check time stamps.

durron597

@RobertHarvey This surprises you?

Robert Harvey

Not on ServerFault.

durron597

> It kinda sounds like you've correctly identified the problem, and then... Arrived at the status quo as the solution. Let's face it: as a community, your reputation for cruelty, snark, and general unhelpfulness is unmatched - even Programmers, which attracts far fewer questions per day and rejects nearly all of them, doesn't come close to generating the levels of straight-up vitriol that y'all do.

> And so, upon observing that the only folks willing to still come here are utterly lost and desperate, your solution is... youtube.com/watch?v=0VjPNKc0VsU – Shog9♦ Nov 20 '14 at 18:50

serverfault.com/election/4?tab=nomination

I wonder (this is not an accusation, I don't have nearly enough information from which to do that) if Shog was just waiting for this.

I'm practically never on ServerFault and even I remember reading that from their election.

Robert Harvey

What happened is not within the scope of a moderator's duties. If it'd happened anywhere else, he'd done the same thing: temporarily removed the diamond pending a discussion with the mod.

I wouldn't get away with that sort of thing on SO.

Ixrec

> I can think of no measure more extreme or desperate than electing me as moderator.
- HopelessN00b Nov 20 '14

Robert Harvey

8:55 PM

Saw that. He got elected anyway.

durron597

@RobertHarvey Perhaps it's both. Perhaps he expected it to occur on ServerFault and was sort of extra watching for it there.

Ixrec

I know, I find that hilarious

but it does seem to support all the "this is exactly what we elected him to do" comments

Robert Harvey

I'm waiting for the day when Evan Carroll or Ron Maimon gets elected on one of the sites, and all hell breaks loose.

Ixrec

maybe the real misstep was having the discussion in public

Jimmy Hoffa

@durron597 O_o what?

durron597

8:57 PM

@RobertHarvey I mean, ultimately these sites belong to StackExchange, not to us. Like when Simon Cowell unilaterally decided to eliminate Sanjaya.

Robert Harvey

That's exactly right.

user20683

@RobertHarvey Ron no longer participates on Stack IFAIK

durron597

@JimmyHoffa What's confusing? That's a copy-paste from the link two messages down.

Robert Harvey

@JimmyHoffa Translation: SF is a bunch of meanies.

Jimmy Hoffa

@RobertHarvey according to shog9?

durron597

8:58 PM

@RobertHarvey I would never post anything there. I can always find a way to shoehorn it into SuperUser, Ux&Lx, AskUbuntu, Webmasters, here, etc.

Ixrec

have all of the trilogy sites had a "why is everyone so mean?" phase at some point in the past?

I know SO did

HotelCalifornia

this chat is pretty active today.. is it because it's friday?

Robert Harvey

@JimmyHoffa They spend all their time belly-aching about clueless newbies and closing shop on their chat room so it can be hosted somewhere else, free of the SE despots.

enderland

@HotelCalifornia it's always active

Ixrec

@HotelCalifornia at least for me, yes that's why I'm not doing anything productive right now

user15026

8:59 PM

@RobertHarvey O.o on the last half of that

durron597

@HotelCalifornia I feel a little sick and I really don't feel like working.

HotelCalifornia

oh

Robert Harvey