The Whiteboard

user55340

1:18 AM

Free house! Ale, whiskey and such. Prices are not free. Local place, local food, imported beers available.

user55340

Drinking a delicious "mimosa cider" - cherry and orange notes quite strong along with the apple.

user55340

user55340

Lambics on the menu too.

user55340

The whiskey menu

user55340

2:02 AM

brewbound.com/news/ciderboys-releases-grand-mimosa

user15026

@MichaelT I love lambics

user15026

@MichaelT Also, this sounds really, really good

user20683

2:27 AM

programming language made of Arnold Schwarzenegger one liners

user15026

@WorldEngineer How do you find these things? o.O

user20683

@AshleyNunn hacker news and dozens of blogs

user15026

I like it

deostroll

5:06 AM

Hi. I need help in explaining a bug in a cordova/phonegap plugin. Sorry if this is going to look long...

I work on a phonegap/cordova project which uses a screen rotation plugin. The plugin helps in locking the orientation of the screen.

Now once I call the routine to lock orientation I get the window dimensions. Based on this I set the height/width of my canvas.

But the canvas wasn't covering its designated area as expected. I put alert statement as a means to debug and find out why; this was done to get window dimensions mostly.

Further I put a window.setTimeout after a few milliseconds (and after the orientation was locked) and also alerted the window dimensions in there.

I observed that the dimensions I got after locking orientation and after the timeout callback was called were different - one of them was showing up as portrait; the other showed up as landscape.

What the plugin lacks is a onRotationComplete event which can actually communicate a state saying this a good time to take dimensions of the window object.

FINALLY to the question: So is this a race condition problem? We trying to access the window dimensions even before the system has completely rotated the screen?

Bhojendra Nepal

9:43 AM

anyone ther?

can anyone please answer my question? programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/271464/…

dcorking

10:36 AM

@BhojendraNepal Welcome to Programmers.SE Sorry your question was too broad. Try to ask a more focussed question next time, such as those you ask at SO.

@deostroll sounds like strong evidence of a race condition. A transcript of your session may make a good bug report / feature request for your plugin maintainer.

ratchet freak

1:17 PM

anyone want free spam flags on various SEs check this craigslist's fan stackexchange.com/users/4722822/eygrachb?tab=activity

Bhojendra Nepal

2:31 PM

@dcorking

question edited, i think this is not too broad now...

i just wanted to know about init....

Matt S.

2:57 PM

@BhojendraNepal The init function is just a place to start. It's shorthand for initialization. It's up to you to decide what code should be in the init function based on the program you're writing.

Here's a tutorial to give you an idea of how it can be used: css-tricks.com/…

Bhojendra Nepal

3:17 PM

@MattS. Thanks for your response. Great link. Any other link from which I can learn more about init?

Matt S.

3:27 PM

@BhojendraNepal Not that I know of. Personally I would just read other people's code to see what they do. Either by reading javascript tutorials, which has the bonus of explaining what they're doing, or by looking through open source projects.

Bhojendra Nepal

So, I was also searching for some plugin which is made using that boilerplate and couldn't find...

Matt S.

init is just a user defined function. It's not something that comes built in to anything.

It's just the function that people typically start with.

In your boilerplate you linked to in your question. The init function is started on line 43. That's what's being called on line 38 when it says this.init();

Bhojendra Nepal

if you know any plugin which is using this boilerplate then please let me know. thanks.

Matt S.

I'm afraid I don't know what you mean.

Bhojendra Nepal

a plugin made by using that boilerplate...

so that I could learn something from there...

Matt S.

3:37 PM

I don't know. Sorry.

Bhojendra Nepal

ok. thanks.

user41796

4:31 PM

@RobertHarvey - you know I'll VTD as soon as we close the question off.

user41796

4:46 PM

And there, my non-answer is gone so roomba can clean up that question.

user55340

4:59 PM

The best way to describe my position is plumber and janitor of data. I get data from here to there and make sure it's clean (and do cleaning if need be)

user41796

@MichaelT Steady work can be a good thing

user41796

On break? I thought your activity levels were going to drop off because various concerns.

user55340

Yep. And there is a lot of crud in these pipes. Some convoluted paths too from systems dating back to the 80s

user55340

On iPhone at side of desk. Not active quite terse.

user41796

I've tried using the mobile app a few times. Pretty wretched for any amount of significant typing.

user55340

5:02 PM

Hence terse.

user41796

And I once worked on a global system with lots of crud in its pipes too. Tracking stuff down through that was challenging

user55340

Phone out because of music streaming (have old unlimited data v1.0 iPhone plan)

user41796

unlimited data FTW! :-)

user55340

Got a pair of bowers & Wilkins headphones.

user41796

I keep waiting for fiber to get rolled to my house. That's going to be quite different.

user55340

5:05 PM

Saw where I ate last night?

user41796

@MichaelT I did! That looked amazing. Any place with a full whiskey menu gets extra points in my book.

user55340

Cider was excellent. have to find more of it

user41796

And on looks alone, I like the BW P7 the best. :-)

user41796

I think Lindemans has released a few new brews in their regular lineup

user41796

I recall seeing a new label from them the other day at the store

user55340

5:07 PM

P3 mobile hifi

user55340

Was after something looking classy but more discreet

user41796

I'm always up for looking at ear candy. I love my current set, but I have wandering eyes too.

user55340

Don't like in the ear- over the ear, but couldn't find wired + behind that I liked.

user55340

So moved up a price point and go something nice.

user41796

I'm usually in a noisy environment, so I don't mind over-the-ear. helps cut down on extra noise.

user41796

5:12 PM

And the sensitivities on those BWs is amazing

Jimmy Hoffa

I've gotten in the habit of only ever using 1 headphone at a time so I can be responsive at home or work

Stereo? Who needs stereo! Pfah!

user55340

Wired because bt lacks all day battery power.

user41796

@JimmyHoffa whereas I'm the opposite - would rather not be responsive. :-)

user55340

Harald Bluetooth

Harald "Bluetooth" Gormsson (Old Norse: Haraldr blátǫnn Gormsson, Danish: Harald Blåtand Gormsen) (probably born c. 935) was a King of Denmark and Norway. He was the son of King Gorm the Old and of Thyra Dannebod. He died in 985 or 986 having ruled as King of Denmark from c. 958 and King of Norway for a few years; probably around 970. Some sources say his son Sweyn Forkbeard forcibly deposed him as King. == The Jelling stones == Harald had the Jelling stones erected to honour his parents. The Encyclopædia Britannica considers the runic inscriptions as the most well known in Denmark. The biography...

user55340

Origin of Bluetooth

durron597

5:26 PM

I don't know if the question I just posted is P.SE material or SO material

could be either. but I like you guys more ;)

0

Q: How does one keep argument counts low and still keep third party dependencies separate?

I use a third party library. They pass me a POJO that, for our intents and purposes, looks is probably implemented like this: public class OurData { private String foo; private String bar; private String baz; private String quux; // A lot more than this // IMPORTANT: NOTE THAT THIS ...

user55340

Can't star on mobile.

user41796

@MichaelT FTFY

user41796

@durron597 It's in the grey zone. I suspect you want more of a conceptual answer, so you're better off asking on Progs. And we like you more than SO likes you.

durron597

@GlenH7 Indeed

user41796

And I think gnat's suggested duplicate may be pretty close to answering your question

durron597

5:30 PM

@GlenH7 I had never even heard of the term "anti-corruption layer"

@gnat there was no way i was going to find that duplicate in advance

user41796

There's a couple of terms for it, but it's a useful technique

user41796

And yes, some of the time it's knowing the right term to look for something. gnat is really, really good at that.

user55340

It's one of gnat's favorite patterns. Iirc

user41796

It's earned him a decent chunk of repz....

durron597

Anyway, I read that thread. I don't agree it's a duplicate

there's nothing wrong with their API. I just want to keep it encapsulated in it's own little corner

i don't want to see import com.third.party.library.Data; in my POJO

user41796

5:36 PM

@durron597 edit that into your question then. I'll happily retract my close vote.

durron597

@GlenH7 done

Jimmy Hoffa

I almost took the time to read through this guys entire question thinking he might have a valid question by listing specific questions at the end until I read this question listed:

user41796

@durron597 and done. :-)

Jimmy Hoffa

> What design-pattern would work best in this scenario?

which means he basically has no chance of understanding the high level design concepts he's reaching for...

user41796

@JimmyHoffa Don'cha know? It's patterns all the way down.

Jimmy Hoffa

5:42 PM

0

Q: Optimized design approach for a large database quick-referencing and lookup task bar tool

First some background… I work for a fairly large and reputable mortgage company as a .NET Developer, supporting their proprietary software package. Their database infrastructure is massive and non-intuitive. The system follows a non-relational design approach. The problem I’m attempting to ...

database-design optimization winforms sqlite hooks

user41796

I think we have a new cleanup target: tools

user55340

Yuck

user41796

9 lines of commentary for a 2 part conditional check with 7 lines of code per condition. :-( I hate Silverlight.

durron597

@GlenH7 What's the problem with tools?

user41796

@MichaelT Yeah, it's over-ripe for closing

user41796

5:46 PM

@durron597 Generally off-topic for Progs. Some may be quality enough to belong on SO. And the tag invites close-bait questions.

durron597

nearly all the questions have positive score

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 ?? anytime you have a condition that's particularly complex, try and make it a list and iterate it...

durron597

more than half have at least 7 votes

Jimmy Hoffa

I never check equality for multiple things, but make a list of things and check for contains for instance

(for 3 or more anyway)

durron597

@JimmyHoffa I don't want to star what you just said, but I do want to upvote it ;)

user41796

5:47 PM

@durron597 doesn't necessarily mean the questions are on topic for Progs

user41796

@JimmyHoffa The conditional is actually pretty easy. I preload an image in the background so I can swap it out at the next tick to avoid the image appearing to flicker when I reload it.

Jimmy Hoffa

if (new[] { "Arr", "Hoy", "Graa" }.Contains(possiblePirateStatement)) WriteLine("It's a pirate!!");

Robert Harvey

@JimmyHoffa [Review my design]

user41796

What I was really lamenting was that I ran into some non-obvious, ugly things within Silverlight that mandated commenting them.

Robert Harvey

Is Silverlight still a thing?

Jimmy Hoffa

5:49 PM

@GlenH7 yeah that stinks...

user41796

@RobertHarvey Legacy apps never die

user55340

@JimmyHoffa arrays are pirates.

Robert Harvey

@GlenH7 Granted. My last big application was Winforms.

It was greenfield, too.

user41796

durron597

@GlenH7 They can die if you just refuse to support them and turn away money offers to do so

user41796

5:50 PM

@durron597 it's the latter part that's hard in this particular case. And politically, we can't do that.

durron597

The business guys are always "come on guys, it's MONEY. WHY CANT YOU SUPPORT IT. I NEED TO GO TO HAWAII AGAIN THIS YEAR"

Robert Harvey

@WorldEngineer Is the "DontAsk" page editable by moderators?

user41796

@RobertHarvey My memory is that it is. I seem to recall both Thomas and Yannis having made edits to that.

Robert Harvey

It needs something in it about [review my design] questions.

user41796

In the past, someone will open a question on meta with a suggested update to the wording. Community kicks it around, and once we have consensus, someone edits.

user55340

5:52 PM

@durron597 I'll support it if I can telecommute from Hawaii... Forever.

Jimmy Hoffa

> More than three arguments (polyadic) requires very special justificiation--and then shouldn't be used anyway.

Robert Harvey

Just checked, it's not editable on Stack Overflow, so I guess it's probably not editable here either.

Jimmy Hoffa

^-- this seems zealotous and pointless to me

Robert Harvey

Just one more arbitrary programming rule.

Jimmy Hoffa

Not saying huge parameter lists are fine, it just seems like an arbitrary style rule

user41796

5:54 PM

@RobertHarvey Color me wrong then. Maybe we should get me a site to where I can experiment and determine those things before I make a comment.

Jimmy Hoffa

no reason to follow it with any particular adherence.

user55340

And the associated pay to allow said telecommute from the beach. Do they make water proof mbp for work on a surf board?

Jimmy Hoffa

@durron597 any reason you don't want to take your n-parameter methods and bundle the params together into complex objects?

user41796

@MichaelT there's a company that can take smartphones and make them waterproof by injecting some polymer substance

Jimmy Hoffa

(not arbitrarily-> Presumably the params can be semantically grouped..)

user41796

5:55 PM

would imagine you can do the same with a laptop

durron597

@JimmyHoffa the way Erik is suggesting I do it?

Or double wrapping the third party objects? (one wrapper to remove dependency then use adapter pattern on THAT)

Robert Harvey

I think the largest number of parameters I ever had in a method was seven. It's usually a constructor. Something like (object, metadata, start, end, current, flag, anotherFlag).

Jimmy Hoffa

What erik suggested, didn't see his answer

user55340

Neec to get picture of brothers exploded mb. Battery. Got it working again.

durron597

@JimmyHoffa It's important that the objects that end up making it out into the larger code base are immutable & threadsafe

But yeah, I can make an intermediate "staging" object, so to speak

Robert Harvey

5:58 PM

There was a pattern someone brought up the other day for C++... Embedding the parameter object within the main object.

Jimmy Hoffa

@durron597 that's all they should be. They can become handy when semantically grouped because you'll find multiple methods need the same data sets and you can reuse those objects.

Robert Harvey

It looked to me like the only reason one might ever have a nested object. In C#, I think this would be problematic, as you can't create the nested object outside of the main class (it lacking the proper scope).

durron597

@JimmyHoffa It just seems a bit counter intuitive to create a data structure for the purposes of creating... a data structure

Jimmy Hoffa

think of it like UpdateAddress, InsertAddress, MailToAddress, you create an Address object that's a dumb DTO otherwise each of the above methods would require you to get City, State, Street, Zip, Country, County, AddressLine2, HouseColor, and LawnFlavor parameters

durron597

But the more I think about it I can't see any reason why not

@RobertHarvey Do you have a link to the question?

Robert Harvey

6:01 PM

[checking]

3

Q: What reason is there to not add nested class/struct resolution in C++ when performing method calls?

Considering the following toy program: struct Foo { struct Bar {}; Foo(Bar b); Bar m_b; }; Foo:: Foo(Bar b) // Bar resolved properly : m_b(b) { } int main() { auto f = Foo( Bar() ); // Bar not resolved return 0; } Why do I need to explicitly type Foo::Bar when calling the...

c++ scope

If you're going to make a class just to be a parameter bag, and that data structure must reside outside of the (only) class that uses it, then it makes sense to create a class that is meaningful to the business domain.

The closest thing I can think of to that is a DTO or a ViewModel object.

Jimmy Hoffa

@durron597 that's why DTOs exist: Data Transfer Object, purpose is to transfer data around the system.

Robert Harvey

Except that DTO's are deliberately anemic; their typical use is to transfer data between systems that don't necessarily know about the objects from which the data originated. They're used to decouple, in other words.

Otherwise, you could just transfer the original object.

Or, you need to collect data from several different objects together into a single object for transfer.

Which is what a ViewModel does.

durron597

so what are you calling the DTO in this case? The parameters object?

or the resulting object that gets published to the rest of the code

Jimmy Hoffa

@durron597 The parameter object, possibly the resulting object as well if it's purpose is to transport data -> Think about connection string objects for DB connections, the input is a DTO carrying connection info, the output is a live connection object - not a DTO. Just because a method takes a DTO doesn't mean it has to return one, and vice versa.

again, if a method takes 6 params, that doesn't mean just make an arbitrary object with those 6 parameters, be rational in how you group them, you might find 2 of the parameters really go together and the other 4 do as well and you end up with 2 complex objects as the parameters

2 objects which are reusable (hopefully)

durron597

6:19 PM

The use case is an automated trading platform, and the object is one that describes a particular contract

e.g. everything you ever wanted to know about the April Gold futures contract

so data.description = GCJ5. MaturityMonthYear = "201504", etc.

so the third party library has their contract object, and i have mine, and the discussion at hand is the best way to transform theirs into mine

Aside: of course parameters object is not in gang of 4.

gang of 4 is so mid-90s ;)

Jimmy Hoffa

6:35 PM

design patterns are bla... they muddy the mind with a bunch of stuff that you'll think you should just reach for in some pre-determined configuration which is crap. Everything should be purpose built - abstracted but to your purpose, not abstracted to meet something detailed in a book when the generalization given by that has no merit for your use cases

don't worry about patterns, just recognize when you think you have too many parameters, but need all the data, the only way to lessen the parameters is to put the data into complex objects, or require consumers to call more than your one method doing some of the leg work your method would do so your method requires less params or using properties on your object.

that's the long and the short of it. Unless you want to start using closures and currying your params around

which I doubt to be the case

durron597

@JimmyHoffa Mmmm.... curry.

Jimmy Hoffa

Thai of course, indian curry is :/

durron597

@JimmyHoffa Thai makes better DTOs anyway

In a serious note, I am not one of those people who tries to use every design pattern in my code just for the heck of it.

> YES! I FINALLY FOUND A WAY I CAN ADD THE COMMAND PATTERN! MY PROGRAM IS COMPLETE

user41796

@durron597 It's not just for the heck of it. It's the ultimate pokemon! You gotta use 'em all!!!!

durron597

@GlenH7 I just use the Mewtwo pattern constantly

Jimmy Hoffa

7:26 PM

@durron597 I wouldn't use an "adapter" for what you are. I'd just define the business purpose of that thing, create an interface for it with your types, and then that one 3rd party would be an implementation of that interface that get's injected or otherwise. All consuming code merely uses the interface and your internal DTOs

durron597

@JimmyHoffa I have a semi embarrassing reason why I didn't do it that way to begin with

I wanted to use the automatic gson serializers for this class

which at this point has added me a lot more grief than just writing a TypeAdapterFactory bleh

dcorking

7:41 PM

call me contrary, but I disagree with the close votes (partly because I will lose my imaginary answer rep ;) ) here. Comment explains why :

2

A: Is there any harm in using amazon AWS as a development environment?

No - there is no harm in using an AWS Elastic Compute Cloud (EC2) instance for your development platform. But you will have to learn some extra skills that you wouldn't need when developing on a local machine how to use AWS Identity and Access Management (IAM), how to use AWS billing (if you ...

user41796

@dcorking Could also go with primarily opinion based for a close reason

user41796

questions like that one just aren't a good fit for the site. They tend to be opinionated and their value is ephemeral.

user41796

And what works for me may or may not work for you or someone else.

dcorking

I could have some data to say what the performance is but I didn't offer it. "What works for me" even applies to objective SO answers.

enderland

Man. I hate feeling like I've more or less wasted the last few years of my life (from a career perspective)...

user20683

7:45 PM

@enderland I kinow that feeling

enderland

Maybe it's because I've been sick. But man. hindsight is 20-20

user41796

26

A: The halting problem - or - the fallacy of "real questions have answers"

I'm going to assume that this is a serious request (excepting the last few lines) and not just a bit of leg-pulling (it's not Friday). Seems that one of the consequences of coming up with a famous quotation is that everybody either misquotes you or takes it out of context. This is what was actu...

dcorking

I guess to calibrate myself, perhaps you wouldn't allow a question like "Is Book A adequate?" A:"No because it has errors X Y and Z that will cause your server to crash and Fred Brooks to cry."

user41796

64

Q: What exactly is a recommendation question?

What exactly is a 'recommendation' question? I understand and agree with avoiding questions on SO that garner answers which are basically opinions or preferences, such as "I like X" or "We use Y and it met our needs". These questions just lead to discussion and not answers. However, I recently ...

discussion questions recommendation-questions

user41796

It can be a lot more fun to look over the unanswered questions in search of something worth answering

user41796

7:48 PM

Props if you can provide a solid answer to this:

user41796

33

Q: Why (or why not) are existential types considered bad practice in functional programming?

What are some techniques I might use to consistently refactor code removing the reliance on existential types? Typically these are used to disqualify undesired constructions of your type as well as to allow consumption with a minimal of knowledge about the given type (or so is my understanding). ...

functional-programming haskell

user41796

@dcorking Book questions are generally off topic on Progs

user41796

@enderland Breadth in career education is never wasted. Perspective is always valuable.

dcorking

OK

user41796

Technically, Progs allows for questions regarding canonical books. But in practice, those don't fare that well either.

user41796

7:49 PM

Part of the challenge is most currently used technology in programming doesn't have a canonical book to back it.

dcorking

Thanks @GlenH7- Quite. I see requests for canonical books closed too.

user41796

"What's the canonical book to learn Silverlight?" <cries in a corner>

enderland

@GlenH7 I think my frustration is that I have all this breadth and minimal depth

user41796

@enderland You're still green. :-)

user41796

You'll grow deeper roots soon enough.

user20683

7:51 PM

@GlenH7 I'd rather be like bamboo

user41796

@dcorking Sometimes those shouldn't have been closed. You can always drop a link in here for the community to weigh in.

user41796

@WorldEngineer Stop growing after a year?

user20683

tough, flexible, and nigh unstoppable in my spread

dcorking

I am tempted to rewrite the AWS question. Worst that can happen is that it will be deleted. :D

enderland

I think that's part of my frustration, bouncing around constantly being exposed to things but never really digging into something for an extended period of time

user20683

7:51 PM

@GlenH7 You've clearly never dealt with forestral bamboo

user41796

Oh, wait, that's a good question. Are bamboo like aspen trees - all one organism sharing the same root structure?

user41796

@WorldEngineer A given shoot only grows for the year. Thereafter, it won't grow anymore. But I don't know if the next shoots are separate organisms or a continuation of the primary. With aspen, they are a continuation of the primary.

user20683

@GlenH7 they are very much that way

dcorking

Giant pandas never seem to have enough bamboo.

user20683

but they also use seeds

user41796

7:53 PM

@dcorking At it's current rate, yes it will be deleted. Feel free to edit. :-)

user41796

I'm a bit surprised at how quickly the face detection question got hammered. -6 on 9 views.

user41796

I found at least one (weak) reference that indicates bamboo is a clonal colony like an aspen tree.

dcorking

ok - I completely rewrote - it is in the edit review queue.

wow - face detection got hammered - deservedly - long before it appeared in my feed.

user41796

> What modifications do I need to make to my workflow, and which skills do I need to learn in order to develop with Ruby On Rails on a Linux cloud server on Amazon Web Services (AWS)?
In particular, I am concerned that it won't work, or it will be much more difficult than developing on my Windows netbook, which is adequate for PHP development with XAMP.

user41796

So, a couple of challenges there. What modifications do I need to make to my workflow is really broad, especially since we don't know what their workflow currently is.

user20683

8:03 PM

@GlenH7 you need the ability to read

user41796

which skills do I need to learn in order to develop with Ruby On Rails falls into Off-topic: Education advice

dcorking

Something bugging me is that closed questions seem to link to a lot more closed questions in the "related" sidebar on the right. So that a visitor gets to see lots of bad examples of questions, to teach them how to write questions. I guess fixing that is a long awaited SE feature request.

user41796

@WorldEngineer which I utterly fail at

user20683

@GlenH7 one needs, not you specifically

user20683

@dcorking I'm sure @gnat 's requested it

enderland

8:05 PM

Hey I'm at least able to read! :)

user41796

And than developing on my Windows netbook puts us in the realm of evaluating hardware which is ephemeral at best

dcorking

@GlenH7 See my answer. There are 3 specific skills needed to operate AWS for development. Not education advice IMHO ;)

@GlenH7 on reflection I see what you mean. Burn it then!

(Burn the bamboo too)

user41796

@dcorking Honestly, I don't care about the question - it's off-topic and the community has settled on those guidelines for some time now. I'm more interested in teaching a newer member of the community how to identify the good from the bad questions so they can focus their answering efforts on questions that will last.

dcorking

@GlenH7 Thanks. When I look at unanswered questions I either see questions that were overlooked by the close voters, or ones that have unaccepted answers. But I wish I could answer the Haskell one you mentioned.

user41796

@dcorking It's very rare for a question to have 33 up votes and no one be able to answer it

user41796

8:10 PM

And you're right, there are some in there that need to be pushed into the close review queue. I'm out of close votes today, so I'll revisit that later.

user20683

@dcorking Haskell questions have a limited audience in terms of true experts are often deeply esoteric when it comes to architectural concerns.

Jimmy Hoffa

8:53 PM

@GlenH7 wow I thought that one got answered...

user41796

@JimmyHoffa Nope... After all that effort we put into it....

Jimmy Hoffa

I'm somewhat inclined that it should be closed

Both McCann and Lippert sloughed it off as subjective...

user41796

Why? Because there's only 5 people in the world who can answer it? :-D

user41796

@JimmyHoffa Where did you see that?

Jimmy Hoffa

@PetrPudlák: Keep in mind that the antipattern there is not existential types in general, but a particular use of them when something simpler and easier (and better supported in Haskell) would do the same job. — C. A. McCann Jan 28 '13 at 14:21

If you want to know why the author of a particular blog post expressed an opinion then the person you should probably ask is the author. — Eric Lippert Feb 25 '13 at 16:17

I kind of agree. The question is a little like asking "Why (or why not) is an interface considered better than an abstract class?" it starts with an unfounded supposition and then asks for it to be validated

user41796

8:57 PM

Those were from before your edit

Jimmy Hoffa

my edit?

shit

user41796

go look at the revision history on that one

user41796

we actually deleted it off and then undeleted so we could clear the delete votes

dcorking

9:14 PM

@GlenH7 kind of interesting, but I haven't used static types enough to be able figure out even a bad stab at an answer for that. I don't know what a 'type class' is yet, as I don't think SML has them.

enderland

is it trolling to have a 30min convo with a financial planner who called your work phone, on your drive home, even though you are nearly 100% confident you know enough (and that he will attempt to sell you overpriced stuff) to not need his advice?

durron597

Whee my question got tweeted

@enderland Not if you can talk him into taking your entire department out for lunch

enderland

@durron597 ooh I wonder if it's against our company rules to get a free lunch for this

durron597

@enderland Have you ever seen those bins at like Chili's and Applebee's and whatever

user20683

@enderland if it's not, you'll be remembered as "that guy who got everyone free lunch"

durron597

9:18 PM

drop your business card get a free lunch for your whole office

user20683

@durron597 several restaurants around where I am offer a lottery for that

enderland

I'm mainly concerned with how he got my work phone number

durron597

my coworker won one of those once a few years back, we got to listen to ameriprise financial for an hour as part of the package

but hey. free lunch.

enderland

This would be Northwestern Mutual

haha

durron597

honestly they make enough money that if 5 lunches get one person to sign up it's +EV for them

enderland

9:20 PM

I probably could advise folks better than him in financial planning

I am VERY well versed in this subject

durron597

I got long gold again today what do you think

Woohoo! That last upvote -> 50% to getting CV privileges

user20683

9:53 PM

Use the index, Luke: wherein a light-saber equipped squirrel teaches you how to optimize SQL.

enderland

@WorldEngineer its more fun to not have any index and use keys that are values though. THINK OF THE JOB SECURITY

Robert Harvey

10:10 PM

Does anyone here know what a technical temporary agency's markup is?

user41796

@RobertHarvey can vary

Robert Harvey

Would 50% be a fair guess. I think that's what Apple One billed me out to Wells Fargo for.

user41796

I want to say at least 50% and possibly closer to 75% depending upon length of contract and salary rate

Robert Harvey

Yeah, that's what I thought.

I have a headhunter offering me $30/hour for six months.

After I told him I wouldn't take less than $45

He said "Well, we offer benefits now." Probably because of ObamaCare.

user41796

I'd be cautious with both of those rates

Robert Harvey

10:16 PM

How should I be cautious? Are they both too low?

user41796

That seems more like they're exploiting you than anything else

enderland

What benefits?

Robert Harvey

They didn't say.

enderland

$30/hr seems low though regardless

That's conservatively only $60k/year

Robert Harvey

It's in the bottom 8 percentile for ASP.NET developers.

user41796

10:17 PM

$30/hr is $60k which is on part for a modestly experienced developer in a normal metro. It's a bit low for a large, more expensive metro

Robert Harvey

$60K is MOR? I left Employer^^ over $60K

That was 7 years ago.

user41796

Clearly I'm more greedy... :-)

enderland

I think $60k is pretty low for that @GlenH7

Robert Harvey

No, I meant I left $60K for greener pastures. Substantially greener pastures.

enderland

@RobertHarvey what is MOR?

Robert Harvey

10:19 PM

Middle of the road.

enderland

Yeah... I'd think $60k is pretty low in most places

user41796

in a major metro like yours, 60k is really good out of school to having a few years of experience but not amazingly good.

user41796

And I'm sure I offended someone with that...

enderland

I don't think $60k is really good right out of school, either

Robert Harvey

Well, my thought is, if the temp is paying $30, then they probably quoted $45, when they really should have been quoting closer to $75 or $80.

That's what the contracting company would be paying for anyone else not through the agency, I figure.

A consultant type.

user41796

10:22 PM

possibly, yes

Robert Harvey

But I guess the thing that bothers me a bit is they don't even seem to know what the nature of the work is.

user41796

or the agency is really greedy and taking over half the rate

Robert Harvey

The last headhunter I talked to sent me an email with a job description and a form to fill out that included "salary requirements." I replied to the email and asked him what the salary range was instead. He told me. Seem salary is upfront now.

user41796

money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/software-developer/salary is for "average software developer"

user41796

@RobertHarvey have you tried checking with friends for headhunters they recommend?

Robert Harvey

10:26 PM

No, but I will.

What's the difference between a computer programmer and a software developer, other than $20K per year?

user41796

That's how I found the ones I was able to work with. The ones that have found me have been underwhelming.

user41796

@RobertHarvey application space

enderland

@RobertHarvey kalzumeus.com/2011/10/28/dont-call-yourself-a-programmer

durron597

Is this a good time for me to bring up again that my company is hiring Java developers and everyone who applies here is awful and doesn't speak English

user41796

ios and android developers pull a premium currently

Robert Harvey

10:28 PM

@durron597 No, that makes you racist.

enderland

That article articulates it perfectly @RobertHarvey

durron597

@RobertHarvey Dang, I hate it when that happens

user41796

@enderland Yes, but DoL has particular categorizations

Robert Harvey

@enderland Thanks.

user41796

@durron597 All of us currently chatting are several hundred, if not thousand, miles from you currently. Don't think any of us can relocate easily either.

durron597

10:30 PM

I mentioned my conversation with @maple_shaft to my boss the other day and he said that 95% telecommuting would work for him with the right person.

enderland

too bad I'm definitely not the right person :P

user20683

@durron597 that's still 5% too much for most of us

durron597

Plus, Texas is awesome.

weather.com/wx/today/…

@WorldEngineer Actually, @maple_shaft was the person who said 95%, not me

user20683

ah

durron597

There would have to be a face to face before we hired a full time employee (not necessarily if we decided to go the consultant route) but my boss loves traveling so even that could be negotiated

enderland

10:46 PM

Some of us like seasons @durron597 :)

durron597

@enderland Some

Jimmy Hoffa

@enderland I hate this article. The guy comes off as a complete asshole - aiming for some sort of "tough love" to get people to be wary or something, truth be told I think he's an enormous prick of extremely low moral fortitude based on his perception of others

the crux of his entire article is "Everyone is out to get you, trust no one, your friends aren't real friends, so take advantage of them before they take advantage of you."

Robert Harvey

11:06 PM

@JimmyHoffa You mean that's not true?

Hi, Doug.

I thought I would respond to you in writing, maybe save both of us some time on the phone.

When I worked for Wells Fargo, I did so through Apple One, a temporary agency.  I was on their payroll; they paid me $45 per hour and billed me out at $66.  The job lasted for two years; I wrote applications in Microsoft Access that produced detailed sales reporting for 330 bank branches and their employees in the greater Los Angeles area.  This was back in 1999, before I went back to school and got my Bachelor's and Master's degrees.

Jimmy Hoffa

@RobertHarvey haha awesome

Robert Harvey

Tried to be as diplomatic as I could.

Robert Harvey

11:35 PM

@JimmyHoffa Apparently the client is trying to fill the position of a person who went on maternity leave.

It's sort of a mid-level position, I guess.

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