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12:00 AM
Reddit's a different system altogether. Do you think they'll care?
making sensible make files is hard.
 
12:13 AM
We've got to go deeper. submits changelog to gnu maintainers
At a meetup where they're talking about Haskell for web development. :D
 
 
1 hour later…
1:41 AM
Gah. When did Linux distributions start coming with all this crap? I'm running it in a VM. I don't need connectivity to Facebook and crap.
 
They are trying to earn more market share of the desktop market
 
Is there a distribution that comes with more than Arch out of the box, but not all this useless stuff that Ubuntu and Fedora come with?
Like a free professional distribution? Something a company would run out of the box?
 
maybe centos?
the last couple places I have worked have used it for their servers
 
I'll poke around it tomorrow. It's too late tonight.
I do shudder, but I'm seriously debating looking at Oracle Linux and/or Solaris.
I am running a VM. Might as well spin up two OSes - Oracle Linux and Solaris. Maybe a BSD to round out.
 
I stick with Windows only cause I have been using it forever... I should branch out...
 
1:55 AM
I run Windows and VMs in Virtual Box. I want to actually play around with more development at home and I've been liking Linux at work (where we are using Oracle Linux). I wanted one of the common distributions at home in a VM, but they are not really appropriate, IMO.
 
 
2 hours later…
3:27 AM
Okay, well in general the data structure you should use is an associative array (one that doesn't use index numbers, but instead key/value pairs). I don't think this question is appropriate for this site though. The "Programmers" stack exchange would be better for "conceptual" questions. — 4castle 42 secs ago
 
3:54 AM
ok, I have used Python's AST library to further directly answer that question, and I'm going to be in trouble if I don't go to bed right now, so good night!!:)
 
 
3 hours later…
6:51 AM
@ThomasOwens you have to separate the underlying OS from the bundled applications and desktop environment. E.g. a notable difference between Fedora and Ubuntu is that Ubuntu doesn't care about SELinux (which might be a user-friendly choice, but is obviously less secure). That factor should be more important for your distro choice than the default desktop environment.
You can use a minimalist desktop environment like Xfce or LXDE, or a more traditional approach like KDE or Mate or Cinnamon if you're not enticed by the creative choices taken by Unity or Gnome 3. If necessary, start with a server release and then install the DE of your choice on top of that. I've settled on Kubuntu (KDE/Ubuntu) for my personal computers, Mint (Cinnamon/Ubuntu) at work, and at my college use KDE/Suse and Xfce/Gentoo, though not for development.
 
 
3 hours later…
10:12 AM
@amon Does KDE not have this stupid crap built in to it? It looks like GNOME 3 does - even in Arch, if you just install GNOME 3, you get stupid apps and integrations. I'd want to look at Mate and Cinnamon, too. But whatever happened to do the "do one thing and do it well" philosophy?
It's not that desktop environment is my primary factor, but that I want something not only usable, but not too heavy. I don't need Linux in a VM trying to pull in my contacts from Google and Facebook and such.
 
10:26 AM
KDE does have instant messenger integration, but I never really noticed or used it. It's probably useful for some people. You might find it sensible to use Xfce which is very no-frills, but additionally install selected KDE applications which tend to be more powerful.
 
 
2 hours later…
12:33 PM
Just a good morning to the everyone in The Whiteboard
 
Just a good morning? Does that mean a bad afternoon, bad evening, and bad night? :(
 
No, That means wait until afternoon, evening, and night arrive in the eastern time zone :) Then you will receive those, but until then...
 
 
1 hour later…
1:40 PM
@amon I should look at Xfce some time. I started to stand up my Oracle Linux and Solaris VMs. I'm pleasantly surprised so far. Clean and efficient.
By that, I mean I installed Solaris. I started an install of Oracle Linux and then went to sleep as it installed.
 
Alright, beating the accepted answer! Woot!
 
Link?
 
10
Q: Why do most mainstream languages not support "x < y < z" syntax for 3-way Boolean comparisons?

JesseTGIf I want to compare two numbers (or other well-ordered entities), I would do so with x < y. If I want to compare three of them, the high-school algebra student will suggest trying x < y < z. The programmer in me will then respond with "no, that's not valid, you have to do x < y && y < z". Mos...

 
That's...long, I'll read later.
 
2:11 PM
I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because licensing advice is off-topic on Stack Overflow. You may be able to get help on Programmers Stack Exchange, but read their faq carefully before proceeding.Kyll 7 secs ago
 
2:30 PM
@ThomasOwens debian maybe?
 
Maybe. But I've already got the Oracle Linux installed and ready to play with after work today.
 
Well then! How can I get a copy?
Finally earned a badge for an answer on Programmers! has arrived
holds court with regal authority
 
@AaronHall A copy of Oracle Linux? It's free to download from Oracle.
 
cool, that's good to know. I have a friend who's all windows SA and I want to turn him on to Linux, let me know if you think Oracle's a good distribution to start him out on.
 
It doesn't have stupid crap like Ubuntu does.
 
2:41 PM
delegates his homework
:)
 
It's packaged as an Enterprise distribution. Like Red Hat is.
 
I would have pointed him at CentOS until Red Hat made RHEL available for devs for free.
So RHEL would be my top choice at the moment, even though I don't know it well.
I mentioned all of these names to him, let him choose his own adventure, but I'd like to be able to give a better opinion.
 
Oracle Linux is just plain free to use. You don't get pro support.
If he's doing this at work, I'm hesitant about free-with-restriction.
 
ok, sounds like license wise OEL is pretty nice.
 
Yeah. It also uses the Red Hat Kernel.
 
2:44 PM
really? cool
 
I installed Ubuntu and blew it away quickly because it is now geared as a desktop OS. I'm looking for a dev environment.
 
Are you expected to be able to use yum with it?
 
I haven't played around with it yet.
I launched the installer and then went to bed. It was after 10pm last night when I did that.
 
I installed Ubuntu Server in a VM - it's pretty minimal.
 
Ubuntu Server may be lighter. But I think you would also need to install desktop environments. Oracle Linux appeared to install one.
 
2:46 PM
Sounds like a nice compromise.
 
Can someone explain why you would use Ubuntu?
 
I've used it since 2009.
2008, I think
 
Is it it's own OS or is it based on some other OS? Does windows .exe programs work on it?
 
Because you don't have a Mac and don't want to use Windows? Ubuntu (and, from what I've seen, the other mainstream Linux distributions - Fedora, OpenSUSE, Mint) are all home / small office desktop OSes.
 
As a desktop - it beats Windows to heck and I have never had a desire to pay the Apple Tax.
I've never had much success with wine, but you can run some Windows executables on Linux.
 
2:48 PM
Let's say I wrote a program that would only work on Windows 7 or greater (it's an executable file), would it work on Ubuntu
 
If you compiled it with Visual Studio, no.
You can use Mono to bring .NET apps to Linux, though. Some stuff hasn't been ported yet.
If you're using C++, you'd need to rebuild and not use Windows headers.
 
I'm not going to speculate. I have no experience compiling stuff on Windows and trying to run it on Linux.
 
Wait Linux is Ubuntu?
 
My understanding is that you want to compile stuff on the system you want to run it on.
 
Unless you cross compile.
I set up a cross compiler once. It wasn't fun. But it was helpfulo.
 
2:51 PM
Most programs that I want to use only run on windows 7 or newer. That's why I was asking
 
So Debian based Linux distros like Ubuntu or Mint should be able to run .deb's and Red Hat based like CentOS and Fedora should be able to run .rpm's. and Windows can run .exe's, and Macs can run .idkwth
 
That's why I run Linux in a VM.
 
@ThomasOwens talk about setting up a cross compile.
what made it helpful?
 
Eh. Not really. At work, some apps target both Windows and Oracle Linux. In both instances, we make an executable with the same name and extension (.exe), so that way it's transparent to a caller.
@AaronHall At work, I made a compiler for Linux to build Solaris SPARC applications.
So I targeted the SPARC architecture, but did all my development on Linux. When I wasn't in the office, I had a local Linux VM that I could use to build and test.
 
My laptop cann't even run a VM. Someone advised me to just replace the OS with ubuntu
 
2:56 PM
Most computers can run Virtual Box and a VM.
 
I only have like 1010MB of ram
 
@EcstaticSnow You're where I was 10 years ago... less so with half the RAM...
RAM is cheap nowadays, you should look into upgrading if possible.
At work, I had 8 GB, asked for 8 more, they ordered me 16 and let me keep the original 8. :)
 
WOW
I'm just going to buy a new laptop when I get a new job
 
3:43 PM
Maybe they didn't make a big deal about it, not because they know it was you but because they know the perverted behavior that broke it and are attempting to exercise discretion, and if you tell them it was you then they'll know you're a pervert. — Kit Z. Fox 3 mins ago
@enderland I didn't suggest he should quit.
There. Now we can all enjoy my words.
;)
So I'm thinking of getting a new computer. What should I get?
 
This is probably better off on Programmers StackExchange than here. — Munir 21 secs ago
 
@RobertHarvey I still have one of those somewhere.
I have a 128 too.
 
My current computer is a build.
 
Well, I did. The mice may have eaten it.
 
3:54 PM
Intel Core i7-4790K Processor (8M Cache, up to 4.40 GHz)
Corsair CX Series 600 Watt ATX/EPS Modular 80 PLUS Bronze
Corsair Vengeance 16GB (2x8GB) DDR3 1600 MHz (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory
ASRock ATX DDR3 1333 LGA 1150 Motherboard Z97 EXTREME4
Crucial MX100 256GB SATA 2.5" 7mm (with 9.5mm adapter) Internal Solid State Drive
WD Blue 1 TB Desktop Hard Drive: 3.5 Inch, 7200 RPM, SATA 6 Gb/s, 64 MB Cache
Asus 24x DVD-RW Serial-ATA Internal OEM Optical Drive DRW-24B1ST
Corsair Carbide Series 330R Quiet Mid-Tower Computer Case CC-9011024-WW - Black
It's faster than my work computer. I'm really happy with it.
 
Sounds like my downstairs box. I need something portable, like a tablet or laptop.
Is it possible to do a custom build for a laptop? I've never thought of dong that before.
 
The laptop that I eventually bought was this one:
I'm pretty happy with it, though I did have some driver issues.
 
I need something I can record/edit video/audio on and some coding.
 
Then you probably want something a bit more substantial.
 
I hate getting new computers. I can never decide.
It's worse than picking out new glasses frames.
 
4:01 PM
I bought a Dell just because I had a company discount and they were having a sale. Easy, since the hard work was done to set it up, and cheap since the discounts stacked.
 
Maybe I should contact the organization where I'm contracting and ask them to buy my something new.
I like my old one just fine, it's just that I needed to do something that required a driver update and I couldn't find drivers anymore. It's only six years old.
 
I think computers are generally good for 5.
 
I buy old cars too.
 
If it weren't for my wife, I'd still have a flip phone.
I had my last computer for 7 years.
 
I installed Android 2.2 on my HTC Desire about a month ago.
 
4:07 PM
the only reason to upgrade your machine is to have enough horse power so that application devs don't need to bother optimizing
 
App devs will still find a way to use up all that horsepower.
 
@RobertHarvey my point exactly
 
Even if they have to write an infinite loop.
 
What about the Surface? Are those any good?
 
You said that you wanted to do video editing, and the screen on a Surface is woefully small.
 
4:15 PM
@RobertHarvey I like the number of ports, but the first one is beefier on everything else.
 
Those laptops are too small, aren't they? I think you need a 17 inch screen for any serious video editing.
 
Maybe, or I could just plug it into my rig when I want to edit.
 
My dad had a Kaypro and I had a Commodore 64. Both were lots of fun.
I recently (a year or two ago) found Ladder, and I remember it being a lot harder when I was... say 5 or so.
Ladder is a barrel-jumping game (like Donkey Kong) written for the CP/M operating system and made to be operated on the early Kaypro line of luggable computers. Since the screens on these computers only accept text characters and not rendered graphics, the game uses letters, numbers, and symbols lined up to create walls and platforms, pits/traps, characters, trampolines and goals. The floors in Ladder are made of equal signs, and the ladders themselves are made of capital "H"s stacked on top of each other. The "lad" controlled by the player starts out as the letter "P", and barrels ("der rocks...
 
I've never heard of a Kaypro.
Ladder sounds familiar though.
Oh. Those might be the ones we had in the computer lab.
 
> Marge: Nelson, how'd you like to earn some extra money around the house? I have some odd jobs my kids won't do.
Nelson: Yeah, I get the feeling Bart isn't everything he could be in the son department.
Marge: Oh. Sometimes I think he's more interested in his "Itchy and Mitchy" cartoons than me.
Nelson: Hey, I'm sure it's just a phase, like when I used to stand on the overpass and drop computers on the highway.
Marge: That's how we got our Kaypro.
 
4:24 PM
(We had two computers in there, when it wasn't lunch time.)
 
I'm so glad I waited!
 
Me too.
 
9 inches of phosphorescent glory.
 
OMFG $1795. That was a fortune back then.
 
Yep. Particularly where I'm from.
 
4:33 PM
Yes. Almost as much as a new car.
 
Whoa... new car?
 
But it had two floppy drives.
 
yeah, you needed one of them to boot from.
(I think.)
Only one drive means you're constantly swapping out floppies.
 
@AaronHall What year would that have been? 1984 or so?
 
4:35 PM
yeah
 
Yeah, so like 1/3 of a new car.
 
Alienware is so sexy.
I think I want that.
Because I always think things like "I'm going to get an external mic and camera anyway" but then I don't. Or the graphics/audio card can't do the equipment justice.
And I deserve to feel sexy when I'm working.
How do I know how much memory is sufficient memory?
And honestly, do I care about Win Home v Win Pro?
 
 
1 hour later…
5:55 PM
The programmers.stackexchange.com would be better place for this question. — Karol Lewandowski 55 secs ago
 
6:39 PM
I was told my answer doesn't directly answer the question, so I have written a preface to the answer that summarizes the content as a direct answer:
In this answer I conclude that

- although this construct is trivial to implement in a language's grammar and creates value for language users,
- the primary reasons that this does not exist in most languages is due to its importance relative to other features and the unwillingness of the languages' governing bodies to either
- work against (what I suspect to be a minority of) naysayers or
- to move to implement the feature (i.e.: laziness).
 
I am kinda tired of people debating which answers to that question do or don't answer the question
maybe this is a sign I should've voted to close it
 
one-box didn't format it right, this doesn't do a good job either...
@Ixrec That is a common complaint of my answers, which is why most of my answers have a summary up front, with a heading specifically restating the question.
I try to head off those complaints by doing that in advance, but I missed doing it here.
How to communicate: 1) Tell them what you're going to tell them 2) Tell them 3) Tell them what you told them.
 
7:38 PM
@AaronHall I did not say that operator chaining is sloppy; you were the one that declared it to be "elegant" and lack of support for it to be "laziness." What I said was that the elegance is debatable and the mark of laziness is much easier placed on the person who needs to see x < y < z instead of (x < y) && (y < z) than on the language team that considered your preferred expression style to be of arguably trivial value. — K. Alan Bates 3 mins ago
 
nooooooo no more of that question!
 
lol
 
 
I almost replaced it with "To be or not to be?" so that it would look like you hate Shakespeare... :D
I think we're developers because we're lazy. We learned to program because we want to be able to push a button that accomplishes a complex task. Laziness is a virtue for programmers. We will endeavor to get it right the first time so that our code remains useful without maintenance for as long as possible.
I could be mistaken.
 
I know that has absolutely nothing to do with why I program, but it might be true for some of them.
 
7:50 PM
@AaronHall people who think laziness is a programmer's virtue might also like: Perl
 
there are probably people who like the idea of learning to code to automate boring everyday tasks so they can be lazy, but even if they seriously attempted that they'd quickly discover that programming just isn't a net win for laziness
 
OMFG there is a site that is attacked even heavier than Programmers today: cstheory.stackexchange.com/questions
3
Q: Is there a system in place to prevent new users asking and answering and accepting each others' off-topic answers?

KavehNormally new users are not allowed to up-vote until they gain a bit of reputation by receiving up-votes or accepts from the community of a site. But this has a weak point that is being exploited: A number of new users post, answer, and accept each others' off-topic questions before we can...

 
8:22 PM
I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because it seems better suited for programmers.stackexchange.comtrincot 55 secs ago
 
hi
 
hi
 
I asked this question: programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/317078/… a few minutes ago, and I think you said it is off-topic even for programmers.stackexchange, from my understanding
I would need some advises
if you could help
 
sorry, I have no experience with Spring or jQuery
 
hmm
 
8:30 PM
Is there any particular reason why this was closed?
-3
Q: How are dynamic images programmed?

FabrícioI have two friends that want to create a jewelry store, focused on customized jewels. The core feature is the jewelry designer, based on a jewel model. Here's an example of the sort of thing I am looking to create : http://www.gemvara.com/jewelry/wisteria-pendant/pear-citrine-18k-yellow-gold-pe...

It seemed like a pretty clear question to me, although I did edit it at 3/5 close votes, so perhaps those votes were from before it was edited.
 
I'm fairly sure I used a different close reason when I VTC'd it, and I agree "unclear" doesn't make sense there
but even post-edit it's still "explain this code to me" and has no conceptual content or design issues or other stuff that would make me inclined to reopen it
I'm guessing a bunch of people are using "unclear" as the lazy CV reason when they can't be bothered to write a custom close reason for stuff like that which obviously doesn't belong but we don't really have a standard reason (not that they should be)
 
8:50 PM
I VtCed original revision - Ideas to how create a jewelry generator. I saw the edited version later and hesitated to vote reopen because it felt bit broad to me
 
hrm I was thinking it's a good question for the site, it's asking for the overall algorithm of how something works
and it didn't seem overly broad to me
(Personally I didn't think the first version was unclear either, but I could see how it could be considered unclear for those that didn't understand the concept of the question, which is why I edited it)
 
yeah, the unclear thing is a red herring, best to ignore that
 
In it's current state though, can it get reopened? I don't think it's a bad question for the site at all
 
I wouldn't fight it but honestly I just don't see how "explain how this website works" is a good fit for this site
the only "algorithm" involved is superimposing images on top of each other
 
hrm maybe it's just because I see that kind of image a lot on things like Amazon
so can completely understand a question asking how such dynamic images are designed
 
9:02 PM
is there more to it than drawing a couple of images on top of each other?
(the accepted answer doesn't seem to mention anything else, it's mostly just listing all the API parameters that vary the image set)
there was probably a graphic designer involved in the creation of those images, but there's no software design issue there
we can always take this to meta of course
this is certainly not the first time we've had an "explain this website/application for me" question so it wouldn't hurt
 
A little bit more because of the use of hue shift as well
basic algorithm is to take some stock black/white images, and apply a hue shift to match whatever color the user has selected. In this slightly more complicated scenario, there are multiple images that get combined to make the final image
and hue shift is applied separately to each of the layers
 
That site is almost certainly not using premade images. It is generating the image based on parameters. There's 21*21*21*8*8*4 possible images.
 
Yes, there are a lot of online shopping sites that use that kind of pattern for generating dynamic images
and it makes sense that programmers would start asking about it
I wasn't even aware that such a thing existed until I ran into it the first time myself
 
It probably is using imagemagick -composite with a set of overlays
And probably letting the CDN cache the results
Probably the more interesting is how they produce the original images to be composited in a way that doesn't take photoshop experts
 
hrm never heard of either of those
but yes, I was very interested in that question myself
 
I can take a guess at how it's done, but have no real experience in the subject
 
I worked with it on a project. We didn't do what that site does, but we had product thumbnails and had to slap banners on them like "New!" and "20% off!".
The compositing wasn't hard but getting sanitized data out of the product people was horrible.
 
I thought the linked site was actually really interesting, because you'll note after you select colors it also updates all the other tiny thumbnails of the items you might also be interested in a short time later with updated images using the colors/gems you selected
but w/e, I made a meta post about it and now I"m off for the day :)
 
Well, one problem with the question is that while I can make an answer about how I'd design a system to do that, I've no clue what they did.
 
that's something I probably should've mentioned
asking us how <3rd party> chose to implement something is not a question we can ever answer authoritatively, we can only guess
 
9:27 PM
The actual question though was "How are dynamic images generated", with that site being given as an example
my answer was based on the example, but as I said I have no real experience with this beyond my own observations
I suppose I could summarize it though with what I said above
20 mins ago, by Rachel
basic algorithm is to take some stock black/white images, and apply a hue shift to match whatever color the user has selected. In this slightly more complicated scenario, there are multiple images that get combined to make the final image
 
9:43 PM
@Ixrec That's what I use it for
 
how's it going for you?
 
Actually worked pretty well :)
I wrote the program late at night (the time I normally just read). It wasn't to free time, but just to complete this task without being caught. Incognito.
Took me a few weeks though because it used a lot that I haven't even seen before completing it
 
what does this program do?
 
Download youtube playlist or videos through cmd instead of having the actual browser open
Had to find some way to download programming tutorials without getting caught ;)
You probably remember me asking questions about how I would do it in this chat room
 
10:00 PM
> Thank you for reviewing 20 first posts today; come back in 2 hours to continue reviewing.
 
Why do they put that limit there?
 
yes, that is how review queues work
 
I used to have it, but the ones I could access hardly ever had any qued up
 
you don't seem to have enough reputation to access any of the major queues
 
I only had a little over 500
I think it was like 512
 
10:02 PM
Did it get suspended?
 
Nah it was the account I deleted
 
Why did you delete it?
 
29
A: Why are suggested edit votes limited?

Jeff AtwoodOK, for now I increased it to 40 -- on Stack Overflow specifically, since there are more edits on the largest site. We really want vote diversity here, so that's the point of the limits -- if the same 2 folks are vetting all the edits, that's not a sufficient set of eyeballs on those edits.

the only good explanation I'm aware of
 
Mod made me mad, so I tried to delete all my SE accounts, but only my SO account got deleted
 
k folks, have a great night.
 
10:12 PM
You do the same
 
10:42 PM
Would writing batch files be considered programming? If so what is the programming language called?
 
depends on the batch file, but the batch files I've seen are obviously using turing complete languages
 
In computability theory, a system of data-manipulation rules (such as a computer's instruction set, a programming language, or a cellular automaton) is said to be Turing complete or computationally universal if it can be used to simulate any single-taped Turing machine. The concept is named after English mathematician Alan Turing. A classic example is lambda calculus. A closely related concept is that of Turing equivalence – two computers P and Q are called equivalent if P can simulate Q and Q can simulate P. The Church–Turing thesis conjectures that any function whose values can be computed by...
 
iirc a "batch file" is essentially the same thing as a shell script
so it's whatever your shell's scripting language is
 
oh ok that makes sense to me
 
and a shell with a non-Turing complete scripting language would be a pretty crap shell
 

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