The Whiteboard - 2016-03-07 (page 1 of 3)

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Peter Tòmas Scott

12:21 AM

0

Q: algorithm for generating recommendations

We have a user with some data of events they have attended, most importantly lineups with artists. Then, we have the artist with history of lineups that they have been on. If they shared a bill with Artist1 2 times out of 15 shows they have ever played, based on that alone their association with ...

Is my comment an answer, or is the question off-topic, or does the question just need revised?

I just VTC'd as "too broad", since I agree with your comment

explaining all of regression analysis is a bit much for one answer

but that is one of the potentially salvageable ones, if it turns out he already knows regression basics and was stuck on something more specific

for completeness: one could make the argument that an expanded version of your comment could be an answer, a useful answer, and thus a reason not to close the question; for whatever I don't usually see anyone making arguments like this

Peter Tòmas Scott

Perhaps it should be a rule that if the answer has the same title as a series of lectures, then it is too broad: An Introduction to Regression Analysis

I think that if he just needs to be told that what he's looking for is called "regression analysis" then he should probably receive that advice in chat. not as a QA.

a rule of thumb we often cite is that if a complete answer would be the size of a book, then it's too broad

"series of lectures" probably comes out about the same

Peter Tòmas Scott

12:53 AM

Any utility of this site (to the extent any such utility exists — to a highly select few — a disproportionately small group, in fact, compared to the other SE sites) should be weighed against what it costs the community at large to persist with all these negatively received questions. The number of drive-by downvotes on this site is a major cost to the larger community. Costs include wasted time and diminished user perceptions. The question should be asked and considered IMO whether this site should go away or not. Zero improvement ideas have been suggested. So what other choice is there? — Mowzer 10 mins ago

I'm honest enough to say they're persistent.

Does anyone know what question of their's was down-voted? Because it seems they took it personally.

dunno, the only one linked in here was an SO question

tbh I'd rather not go looking

that user made it clear very early on that disengaging is the best strategy

Peter Tòmas Scott

Yes, quite.

> Lesson. Do not trust documentation blindly; it could be wrong.

Peter Tòmas Scott

From whence does this lesson come?

pro chat tip: always linkify things

1:01 AM

Can we call ourselves experts.stackexchange.com ?

that would be rad.

also, apparently experts-exchange.com still exists.

> Lesson. Do not trust documentation blindly; it could be wrong.

@MetaFight I'm ok with calling ourselves that.

You have a sandbox that the neighborhood kids play in. Some neighbors decide to walk their cats and let them shit in the sandbox. The parents complain, but instead of telling your neighbors to stop letting their cats shit in the sandbox, you berate the parents, telling them that they are being overly strict, and that the cat owners should be allowed to do whatever they want with the sandbox. You interpret the shit in the sandbox as evidence that there must be something wrong with the way the sandbox is being managed, but draw the wrong conclusions about what should be the proper solution. — Robert Harvey 15 mins ago

bam

user55340

@MetaFight that reminds me, I need to get some cat litter.

Peter Tòmas Scott

@MichaelT Finally! A useful outcome from the Mowzer chronicles

user55340

You don't find the newly worded title of your question at all possibly the cause for someone voting as disagreement? — MichaelT 19 secs ago

user55340

1:09 AM

-1

Q: Is this site failing? And should it go away?

Fact 1 At the time I write this, 12 of the 15 questions on the questions front page have net downvotes. That is an extreme statistical outlier on stackexchange. Other sites tend to have between 1 and 3 net downvoted questions on the front page. This community has the highest netatively downvoted...

discussion closed-questions scope

1:22 AM

"Should it go away?" pfft.

1:37 AM

IMHO: Mowzer found that brilliance is no substitute for doing one's homework.

3... 2... 1...

user image

lol

I missed the removed part. :(

it was the most interesting comment you'll ever not see.

user55340

1:57 AM

user image

user55340

Patrick Layton "Pat" Paulsen (July 6, 1927 – April 24, 1997) was an American comedian and satirist notable for his roles on several of the Smothers Brothers TV shows, and for his campaigns for President of the United States in 1968, 1972, 1980, 1988, 1992, and 1996, which had primarily comedic rather than political objectives, although his campaigns generated some protest votes for him. == Early life and education == Paulsen was born in South Bend, Washington, a small fishing town in Pacific County. He was the son of Beulah Inez (née Fadden) and Norman Inge Paulsen, a Norwegian immigrant who worked...

user55340

(@RobertHarvey might recall some of those)

missed it again, but in my defence, was looking over the proposed lease for the next year

user55340

@AaronHall He was complaining about the one boxing not boxing.

user55340

But then he got it to work... and so deleted the complaint.

2:00 AM

@MetaFight just make an anonymous account so you can leave stuff up.

;)

do we pay an extra hundred a month for a two-year lease?

It assumes they're going to get an increase of 200 for a year's rent after the first year...

I'm thinking no...

user55340

Are you going to be there for two years? Can they decline to renew the contract at 1 year?

possibly, and yes

but we have alternatives too

Probably should just buy a much less convenient apartment elsewhere... but I'm kindof addicted to the convenience here.

Your wording is really vague and overly broad. Can you edit your question to give some more details on what you've already found, and how you define the difference between applications and websites? (Even if you do that, this isn't a software question, it's probably better asked on a site like programmers.stackexchange.com) — Baronz 57 secs ago

user55340

126

Q: What's the difference between a web site and a web application?

I'm stumped trying to come up to a difference between a web site and a web application for myself. As I see it, a web site points to a specific page and a web application is more of some sort of 'portal' to content and information. But where I'm stuck is that a web application is still viewed t...

web-applications web website terminology

user55340

close it as a dup of that.

2:10 AM

I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because it seems kinda trivial (Answer: "None?"), doesn't demonstrate you've done any homework whatsoever, and it probably wouldn't be acceptable in this form on programmers.stackexchange.com either. — Aaron Hall 33 secs ago

user55340

@BarryTheHatchet reddit.com/r/pics/comments/4997sw/… (read the comments, read the user names)

why?

user55340

user image

user55340

(and the search for relevance: chat.stackexchange.com/… )

Peter Tòmas Scott

Not that I would abuse this chat to promote my own questions but...

0

Q: Should Modelling Document Analysis?

I use UML I, like most (I think), use UML as my main diagramming toolset. UML is clear and useful for representing OOP and has sufficiently diverse diagrams that there is something for whatever area you are modelling; whether it be class trees, component relationships, or specific interactions b...

object-oriented uml analysis ooad

Any opinions on this?

user55340

2:23 AM

@PeterTòmasScott on site, on topic, first time today... all three check. Not an abuse.

user55340

@PeterTòmasScott Ping @ThomasOwens who is a bit more on the uml design and process side of the world...

Peter Tòmas Scott

Cool, thanks

user55340

Im in the "uml is funny boxes and stuff thats gets in the way of programming" camp.

user55340

(side bit - read The 1000 Words)

user55340

Consequences is also a good read.

Peter Tòmas Scott

2:29 AM

It's all highly subjective; I didn't find UML that useful until recently when I started using as part of a wider analysis-design process. Right now my main gripe is that it seems to get in my way during the 'analysis' part, hence the question.

user55340

Indeed, Thomas is the one to chat with. He's a weekday workday type.

user55340

Lets see if this one boxes the way I want it to...

user55340

chat.stackexchange.com/users/815/thomas-owens

user55340

Nope.

user55340

Anyways, look at that and note the histograms in it - thats when he's active here.

2:33 AM

I think with Python's correctness you could easily implement this: thecodelesscode.com/case/83?topic=UML

Peter Tòmas Scott

Thanks

You're welcome.

user55340

@AaronHall There is a multiple inheritance problem in there.

user55340

(mouseover the bit next to topics)

what's that?

user55340

2:35 AM

So, you've got the archer... which knows the number of arrows and can be archer->shoot(distant foe)

Peter Tòmas Scott

@AaronHall my thanks was intended for @MichaelT... but I'm always glad to be welcome :)

user55340

And you've got a horsemen who can horseman->trample()

Mama raised no impolite boys.

user55340

and you've got the flyingRainOfFire which is both an archer, and a horseman and can also fROF->charge()

I'll implement in Python and you'll tell me where I've missed it.

user55340

2:37 AM

but fROF needs to be able to respond to charge and shoot.

user55340

Duck typing worlds, this isn't too much of a problem.

user55340

I'm sure its not too much of a challenge in Go. I know its not a big deal with some auto-handler in perl. Objective C would scoff at it and go "messages that are sent to no where don't go anywhere"

Peter Tòmas Scott

Why not abstract out the capabilities? i.e. create BowAndQuiver object that can shoot, Horse object that can charge and then provide those to the soldier classes. That way you can still enforce the domain rules (only horseman can charge, only archers can shoot) but you avoid multiple inheritance and also avoid code duplication.

2:54 AM

so are these fight methods?

ok

@PeterTòmasScott I'm against UML just because I've seen a lot of people who use it a lot - and every single time one of them brings up a diagram, the meeting get's derailed with an argument between 2 people who know UML debating what is the correct interpretation per UML standards of one or another piece of the diagram

I find it best to use flowchart elements which are explicitly not UML so people just follow along with what you're trying to communicate in the diagram and aren't bogged down in the definitions of various parts of UML

it's the difference between pseudo code and actual code. If you use actual code in examples people will try to think through optimal approaches- they'll think about whether or not the code is syntactically correct, semantically correct, optimally performant etc. Pseudo code, people just try and figure out the intent you're trying to communicate and not the irrelevant details.

user55340

@PeterTòmasScott remember that fROF->shoot(), fROF->charge() and fROF->trample() need to all work.

whoa, I asked if they're all fight methods, so... those are all fight()

:P

user55340

One aspect of that that gets hairy with Java is that while I can do the interfaces for each, the aspect that the archer.arrows is a value is where it gets especially ugly there.

user55340

There is very much an element of "I don't like any of the solutions"

3:09 AM

it's complicated, so it's fun trying to get right, still working on it

user20683

Do I need to have the Troll Talk with all of you?

user20683

Because I feel like I shouldn't need to

Maybe, did I take some troll bait that I should have ignored?

user20683

@AaronHall more than likely

what the meta question?

user20683

3:11 AM

@AaronHall yep

Yeah, that was super troll-y

user20683

@AaronHall precisely

Seemed to be coming from a sincere origin, just turned into the product of a reaction formation.

why, is 4chan yucking it up over it?

Reaction formation

In psychoanalytic theory, reaction formation (German: Reaktionsbildung) is a defensive process (defense mechanism) in which emotions and impulses which are anxiety-producing or perceived to be unacceptable are mastered by exaggeration (hypertrophy) of the directly opposing tendency. The reaction formations belong to Level III or neurotic defense mechanisms, which also include intellectualization, dissociation, displacement and repression. == Theory == Reaction formation depends on the hypothesis that "[t]he instincts and their derivatives may be arranged as pairs of opposites: life versus death...

no one-box for wikipedia?

and there it is

user15026

Taking a peek, looks like they have made up their mind to hate Programmers out of the box, nothing that anyone says is going to magically change that

Yeah, but others will read it, right? If we just assume bad-faith out of the gate, we'll be the ones coming off looking like jerks.

user15026

3:21 AM

I guess but you also gotta know when to quit

Anyways, I'm on the intellectual problem of how to make my Archer().fight(foe) where foe may be plural.

user20683

@AaronHall foes where foes can be 1 or none

user20683

singular is merely the base case of a plurality recursion

Python prefers iteration over recursion

user20683

@AaronHall lists can be of 1 or many

user20683

3:24 AM

or 0

user20683

same difference

yep

$ python3 demo.py
leet leads charge
leet tramples abcde
leet shoots a
leet shoots b
leet shoots c
leet shoots d
leet shoots e
amateur tramples abc
noob shoots c
noob shoots d
noob shoots e

all have a .fight() method

horsemen know their horses, archers know their arrows

all know their rank (shown in demo)

I could add the horses and arrow numbers to the output

but that's trivial

anyone think I'm missing anything?

user20683

@AaronHall game dev would have more knowledge of such

This is in regards to thecodelesscode.com/case/83?topic=UML

I also make fight a sort of semantically abstract method for the base soldier class

And I make ample use of super

anyone want to see the code, or should I add in the arrows and horses?

3:49 AM

$ python3 demo.py
leet leads charge
leet tramples abcde with Atreyu
leet shoots a with arrow 500
leet shoots b with arrow 499
leet shoots c with arrow 498
leet shoots d with arrow 497
leet shoots e with arrow 496
amateur tramples abc with any horse
noob shoots c with arrow 100
noob shoots d with arrow 99
noob shoots e with arrow 98

I think it's mostly ok

Here's the gist: gist.github.com/aaronchall/ae173ef9343f30d10a28

user55340

@AaronHall FRoF needs to be able to charge, shoot, or trample.

user55340

And there are some soldiers that are neither archers, horseman nor FRoF.

well that's a simple extra method per class, see the gist?

and the base soldiers aren't specified to do anything, so I don't say the class does anything

I could do Soldier().fight() and it would be silent

anyways, I think we call that cooperative multiple inheritance

user55340

4:06 AM

And certain things work reasonably in different languages. Trying to get this done in Java (prior to 8) gets hairy.

Thank God I don't do Java.

user55340

With Java 8 it still isn't great, but I could at least have an Archer interface with a default method for shoot() and an abstract method getArrows()

user55340

And thus a given instance would implement some set of interfaces, which have the methods defined in them as default.

rolls eyes at getArrows()

user55340

But, as I said, that's something that I'm not overly happy with - defining getters in interfaces. It should be more property like, but yuck.

user55340

4:09 AM

In Objective C, I'd have different protocols for the different types of soldier... with properties associated with them. However, this gets to the thing that [foo shootAt:target] would work for soldiers and horsemen too... just they'd ignore it.

user55340

And with Python, if you have shoot as different than charge or trample... it would be either an expiation or a runtime error rather than a compile time error (IIRC).

user55340

> “Some soldiers are archers,” continued the abbess, “each of whom must know the number of arrows in their possession. The Emperor may order an archer to shoot a distant foe, and no one but an archer can be told to do this...”

user55340

You shouldn't be able to write soldier.shoot(target) and have it compile.

ok, I'll implement the methods

user55340

At what point will it error out if I was to write soldier.shoot(target)?

4:12 AM

there is no shoot() method (until just now)

and it will error if you do Soldier().shoot(foe)

$ python3 demo.py
leet leads charge against abcde
leet tramples abcde w/ Atreyu
leet shoots a w/ arrow 500
leet shoots b w/ arrow 499
leet shoots c w/ arrow 498
leet shoots d w/ arrow 497
leet shoots e w/ arrow 496
amateur tramples abc w/ any horse
noob shoots c w/ arrow 0
noob shoots d w/ arrow -1
noob shoots e w/ arrow -2
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "demo.py", line 49, in <module>
    main()
  File "demo.py", line 46, in main
    Soldier().shoot('c')
AttributeError: 'Soldier' object has no attribute 'shoot'

gist.github.com/aaronchall/ae173ef9343f30d10a28

FRoF can ['charge', 'fight', 'shoot', 'trample']
Horseman can ['fight', 'trample']
Archer can ['fight', 'shoot']
Soldier can ['fight']

gist.github.com/aaronchall/ae173ef9343f30d10a28

You'll get an AttributeError if you try to do something not listed there (outside of special methods)

oops, meant to make 100 the default for the arrow

@MichaelT have I persuaded you of the power of Python? :D

user55340

4:53 AM

You don't need to persuade me - every language has its power. If only it had braces instead of white space.

@MichaelT you really care about them braces eh? You think whitespace lends itself to people making mistakes that much wherein braces halts that?

user55340

5:12 AM

@JimmyHoffa I just have trouble reading braceless languages. I can read the braced ones faster.

5:28 AM

@MichaelT I chalk that up to practice. I felt the same before forcing myself to do so for a good bit. I would say there's some substance to the argument that people may have more mistakes in such languages than braced ones, but the readability argument people usually use I really just think is purely a matter of simple practice.

6:15 AM

A small doubt:

In this script, I'm using the `swap` function for swapping operations in the sort algorithms, here: (https://github.com/Dawny33/Algorithms.jl/)

However, I can always do `x[a], x[b] = x[b], x[a]`

So, which is a faster implementation? If both are the same, then which implementation is a good one to opt for?

4 hours later…

9:59 AM

in The DMZ, 16 hours ago, by Thomas Pornin

It is useful to remember that as a SE contributor, you are more the product than the customer. Once you have acknowledged that, it is easier to accept any sloppiness.

1 hour later…

BarryTheHatchet

11:00 AM

GOOD MORNING PROGRAMMING FANS

@Dawny33 I've never heard of "Julialang", so I can't help you. Did you consider benchmarking the two versions?

At first glance, though, I suspect the syntax you showed us is a pleasing and expressive way to achieve exactly the same thing, to which it doubtless compiles "under the bonnet".

2 hours later…

12:42 PM

@AaronHall I misread that as shoot(foot), then realised it isn't C

Am I being excessively snippy at programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/311977/…

BarryTheHatchet

popularmechanics.com/technology/infrastructure/a19469/…

@PhilLello No.

However, you should "pick up a vary basic book" on English spelling. :)

'If you're done being pedantic, we should get dinner.' 'You did it again!' 'No, I didn't.'

^ made for me

Yeah, spotted my typo, but fixing it was more effort the the question deserved ;)

BarryTheHatchet

heresy!

Hey that Chrome extension for Feeds is really neat. Good job!

12:57 PM

we should definitely require a longer time between name changes

BarryTheHatchet

:(

Why can't we just barry the hatchet, Aaron?

Currently debating whether I will continue this through the year (won't be one per month; probably will end up being more like 8 or 9 in total) or revert to LRiO for the summer

I did come up with some excellent ideas on the drive home the other day, which I of course promptly forgot

RIP ray.tomlinson@afterlife.org

I foresee Supergirl here getting us all banned.

:D

-6

Q: How to write a program in c language to calculate cgpa of 30 students in a course

Am a new programmer and i have a question about how to write a program in c# that can calculate cgpa of 30 students in a subject

I propose we rename ourselves "Not beginner programming related"

1:16 PM

NBPR

wonders if that's a valid Caesar cipher for LRIO

BarryTheHatchet

1:33 PM

@AaronHall :(

@PeterTòmasScott Hope my answer helps. If it doesn't please ping me in here or leave a comment.

If anyone else wants to critique:

0

A: Should Modelling Document Analysis?

I think that Martin Fowler's posts about UML modes - UML as Sketch, UML as Notes, UML As Blueprint, and UML as Programming Language will be helpful to you. I also think that Scott Ambler's work on Agile Modeling, specifically his writings on Model Storming and Just Barely Good Enough Models and D...

2:23 PM

The Rational Unified Process sounds like something from medieval philosophy

3

@Ixrec But it gave us Disciplined Agile Delivery. But it's really one, corporate branded flavor of the Unified Process, which is a solid framework.

Oracle and someone also also took Unified Process and made corporate-branded versions of it.

Woo! Yesterday's release was even closer to successful! We are making progress. Go team!

\o/

@KitZ.Fox If you have (a) learned from previous successes and failures and (b) improved from last time, then you did succeed.

That's the angle I'm working, yes.

user55340

2:27 PM

Trying to read the article for this afternoon about the scotch shortage and found whiskymarketplace.com which @JimmyHoffa may like.

Now I'm off to take my little son to the dentist to have one or two teeth extracted.

@KitZ.Fox I hope he needs it and you're not just being cruel.

user55340

@ratchetfreak side bit on that question of static gc. Ever looked at ARC?

user55340

Automatic Reference Counting

In Objective-C and Swift programming, Automatic Reference Counting (ARC) is a memory management enhancement where the burden of keeping track of an object's reference count is lifted from the programmer to the compiler. In traditional Objective-C, the programmer would send retain and release messages to objects in order to mark objects for deallocation or to prevent deallocation. Under ARC, the compiler does this automatically by examining the source code and then adding the retain and release messages in the compiled code. ARC differs from Cocoa's garbage collection in that there is no background...

user55340

It's still not static though.

2:44 PM

static gc? Isn't that an oxymoron?

@MichaelT I've heard of it but I don't really do obj C

user55340

@ratchetfreak more a "this might be what they are after"

user55340

@PhilLello it is possible fora reference count gc system to add retain and release calls to the generated code statically. But the evaluation is still at runtime.

maybe though arc is still ref counting (and his question already addresses that)

there is still the danger of reference loops though

user55340

Arc is a bit more than reference counting.

2:51 PM

it emulates wrapping a std::shared_ptr around all handles from my understanding

user55340

And also needs weak refs for de reference loops.

to be pedantic arc is ref counting automated

user55340

36

Q: Is it practical to become an airline pilot in order to travel internationally?

I am a person with very diverse interests and a lot of life goals I want to achieve. One of them is becoming an airline pilot (just working as one for a year or two) and the other is traveling the world. I would like to combine two goals in one, that is becoming an airline pilot after I finish c...

commercial-aviation career

BarryTheHatchet

3:13 PM

Somehow appropriate for this site :D (and a groovy song, to boot)

3:36 PM

If your goal is traveling the world, go teach English abroad. I know a few who did this - traveling abroad for several years, living in different countries gives you a "homebase" away from home to more easily explore the world. Many countries worldwide want people to do this. — enderland 34 mins ago

BarryTheHatchet

3:47 PM

Don't you need to know some of the local language for that though?

(Would love to do it)

so is it reasonable for me to be upset that comcast turned off my automatic billing and let 3 months accrue in bills before they told me, so now I have 3 months worth of late fees?

I know that I should be looking at my account to make sure it's coming out, but come on, that's why I set up friggin automatic payment

that does seem like a dick move on their part, unless they sent you a notification that they turned off automatic billing and you missed it somehow

dear comcast, I can't wait til you die a horribly slow and painful death to google fiber

good point - let me look through my email

No, just make them make it right by paying those bills for you and give you three more months free.

I don't expect that @AaronHall - I've already paid up my 3 months balance as soon as I saw it

I do expect them to refund the late fees

3:55 PM

Well as long as they meet your expectations you've no reason to be upset.

BarryTheHatchet

Annoyed though, sure

If nothing else this is EMOTIONAL PAIN AND SUFFERING

Just Barry the hatchet

2

BarryTheHatchet

and some admin time to recoup the late fees. plus those late fees could have taken you under your overdraft causing bank fees and house repossession...

I'M SUING THEM FOR EMOTIONAL STRESS

BarryTheHatchet

damn straight

let us know how it goes

3:57 PM

Tis the american way

I'm more annoyed than anything because I had a 9AM call and my internet didn't friggin work

so I spent like 20 minutes debugging only to find out my service had been turned off

and that was the first way they had tried to contact me about being 3 months behind on my bills

like, a call would have been nice

@AaronHall the problem is that expectations are already too low to be legal

so now I want my friggin 28.50 in late fees back

For a while, Sprint wasn't sending me bills. They would skip a month, then the next month send me a bill for 2 months of service. Then skip a month and send me a bill for 2 months of service. No late penalties or anything. Just billing every other month. No email notifications or letters or anything about being late.

They refunded my late fees. Actually pretty painless. You get to live another day, Comcast.

@ThomasOwens probably trying to avoid credit card/billing fees

4:03 PM

Maybe. There was warning text on each bill, saying that if I didn't pay that month, there would be penalties.

They started sending me a paper bill every month again, though.

4:20 PM

blog.stackoverflow.com/2016/03/…

Developer Compensation: Stack Overflow Doesn't Stack Rank

David Haney on March 7, 2016

Are Developers Good Negotiators?

typo in the url

I saw something recently about "stack rank" what's up with that?

@MichaelT too much work to do today for bullshitting in here, but that deserves a pin. Indeed. Found me some Green Spot for $46.. I been wanting to try that stuff as people say the irish pot still is distinct from the other irish, but it's so expensive..

this is my local store down the street's price totalbev.com/GREEN-SPOT-IRISH-WHISKEY.html

user55340

whiskeymarketplace for all of your "why am I doing a deployment at work at 8:30 pm" needs. You type twice as fast if you have a double.

user image

user55340

4:28 PM

@JimmyHoffa nice.

^^ my liquor store. Yes it is the size of best buy, and yes it does have enough booze to fill it. (Actually used to be a Best Buy building)

user55340

Reminds me of bevmo in California.

"type twice as fast if you have a double" - I'm gonne use that tonight at the emacs meetup.

Ah, Dave Haney not Dave Haynie. Felt nostalgic for a minute there.

We have one this size in each city. Total beverage has 3 or 4 locations now, but there's others just the same size - all independent (Colorado law stipulates liquor stores must be independent - Total Beverage is skirting the law by having each location a totally separate logo and independent company)

user image

4:31 PM

@michaelt Twice as fast correctly, or hit two keys instead of one though?

user image

I really despise sumptuary laws

user image

user55340

@PhilLello yyeess.

@AaronHall we have the most competitive and active local business industry of liquor stores in the nation. They've multiple times tried putting ballot measures that would change our laws - but the system is working sooo effing well, the industry here is providing so much for our economy we refuse to change it.

healthindicators.gov/Indicators/Liquor-stores-per-10000_51/…

^^ liquor store density by state.

4:35 PM

@AaronHall it sorts the employees by their "skill" then forgets about the actual skill of the employee and then gives out bonuses to the top end and lets go of the bottom end

The laws may be odd and seem bad or imperfect, but I'm not arguing with results. There are more stores per capita here than anywhere in the country, and every single one is independently owned and operated.

Winners and losers. Who loses? Everyone paying more at the liquor store? So it's a regressive tax that transfers money into the pockets of the incumbent store owners.

That's a strong small business industry right there that generates a ton for our economy locally that stays locally and has immense competition from store to store

@AaronHall the competition makes prices very cheap here. So much competition in that industry here. Note the density. Store has bad prices? Walk down the street, there's another.

in other words your bonus doesn't really depend on how good you are but how good your colleagues are relative to you

I'm not against the incumbents. I'm against them having laws excluding new entrants.

4:36 PM

@AaronHall oh there's none of that! There's laws excluding those stores from combining

each one has to be independently owned and operated

No wal-mart wiping everyone else out

My grandma was a retired teacher who didn't get much of a pension (cause grandpa wouldn't let her work until it was almost too late) and walmart stock was her one of her only alternatives.

note the distinctions in how Total Beverage indicates each store to be different. It's a pretty bad skirt of the law and some people are giving crap about it. They may end up in a legal mess for it, but they are each independently owned and operated.

> Next we assess the years of programming experience. This is a value that falls in a range from 0 to 25. Naturally, this goes up by 1 at every annual review.

apparently Stack Overflow age discriminates

There's a lot of people across the states that can't afford to open their own stores, but they can buy a few hundred shares of stocks here and there and build a pension that way.

All I'm saying is let them compete, and the only losers are people overcharging you for liquor.

user55340

In economics and in public-choice theory, rent-seeking involves seeking to increase one's share of existing wealth without creating new wealth. Rent-seeking results in reduced economic efficiency through poor allocation of resources, reduced actual wealth creation, lost government revenue, increased income inequality, and (potentially) national decline. Attempts at capture of regulatory agencies to gain a coercive monopoly can result in advantages for the rent seeker in the market while imposing disadvantages on (incorrupt) competitors. The idea was originated by Gordon Tullock and the term was...

BarryTheHatchet

4:42 PM

@ratchetfreak sounds like they rank employee skill using story points

I think in this case it's more regulatory capture. Big guys use it on the little guys, little guys use it on the big guys, and who loses? Consumers and investors in new entrants.

@BarryTheHatchet how they rank is not important it's just that they rank you and then give bonuses based solely on where you are in the list

but indeed some arbitrary scrum metric is easiest to apply

I think I understand the stack ranking system - it's like grading on a hard curve, you only have so many A's, and at least a couple F's.

exactly

Hello! From reading around, it sounds like Programmers exchange is the best place to ask about algorithm help/guidance. Is that correct, or should I be in a different exchange chat room? Looking for advice on a sorting algorithm/design.

4:46 PM

which of course either means you punish you many good employees or reward many bad ones

my previous company used a combination of stack ranking and SE's philosohpy

@Austin If you want the advice of people who make production software, Programmers is good for algorithm questions. If it's more mathematical or theoretical in nature, Computer Science may be better. What's your question/problem?

@Austin if it's already coded, go to code review

if it's coded but doesn't work, go to stackexchange

keep in mind that codereview.SE only accepts working code

It's coded, it works. But I am trying to find ways to make it better. I have a JSFiddle of it.

user55340

4:47 PM

Code review.

if it's an architecture question that involves an algorithm, we might be amenable to answering

user55340

We don't have stack snippets for a reason.

@Austin so where did you hear that you should bring it here?

@AaronHall not here though. Nobody's losing. The citizenry has a booming economic industry thanks to maintaining the liquor stores as small and independent. It is regulatory capture against the big guys - but hell, I just won't argue with the results on this one. Everyone in Colorado is winning because of it.

@AaronHall meta.stackexchange.com/questions/165519/…

4:49 PM

Sounds like you've used Kool-Aid as a mixer, there, Jimmy.

@AaronHall no, you can look at the numbers for it.. it's straight up beneficial to our locale. It's not koolaid, it's evidence. I'm not saying it would work everywhere or that it's perfect, just saying it's working very well for us - and the numbers prove so.

I am seeing if an algorithm already exists for grouping a set of numbers into equal groups, but getting each group's average to be as close to each other as possible.

Peter Tòmas Scott

@ThomasOwens Very helpful.

@Austin sounds like a bin packing problem

Peter Tòmas Scott

I've got several new attack vectors, so I may come back with some questions in a day or two

4:51 PM

team elo, a bunch of people with their own elo/rank. Trying to put them on as equal teams as possible

Would I still go to code review for this type of question?

user55340

Got an answer on that...

@AaronHall there's a lot of campaigning to remove the restrictions but the citizenry has voted it down every single time. We have a great industry thanks to these rules, we don't want to give up this industry to the wal-marts and larger organizations that would put the money into the national market. In a way, it's an economic protectionist policy we have here.

@Austin working code that you want reviewed goes to codereview

@ratchetfreak totally unrelated, but when I read this, I saw it as "austin [texas] sounds like a bin packing problem" :-) I was confused about how an entire city can be a bin packing problem.... #mondayprobs

@PeterTòmasScott Sure. Feel free to poke at me. I'm usually in chat from 8am - 5pm ish Eastern time. I'm at work, though, so I may be working or not at my desk. But I'll get to it.

user55340

4:52 PM

17

Q: Strategy/algorithm to divide fair teams based on history

We are a group of people playing floorball together on a regular basis. Every session starts with the daunting task of dividing teams... So what would be better than an application to pick teams automatically? So, given a history of team-combinations and results, and a list of people showing up...

algorithms strategy team

user55340

Note: no code.

Let's fix the misleading sign-post that brought Austin here: meta.stackexchange.com/review/suggested-edits/43488

user55340

If you have working code, code review.

Yes, we've covered that

I shall head to code review, thank you. :) Sorry for the mix up!

4:54 PM

@Austin we're glad that you came and checked first

user55340

@Austin better to ask here (and thank you for doing so) than to get the wrong site.

BarryTheHatchet

don't worry; the entire site is a mix up

we get a ton of misguided people who post their off-topic question on programmers.SE

Better to fix the sign-posts!

:D

BarryTheHatchet

s/off-topic //

4:56 PM

@BarryTheHatchet hey we don't mind on topic questions

user55340

May the people who put white space at the end of lines burn in the 512 fires of the unattended server room.

ontopic from misguided people?

it happens

rarely...

BarryTheHatchet

@ratchetfreak what on-topic questions?

;)

Other than SLIP, are there standard data-link layers that won't detect bit flips in UDP? Trying to decide if including the checksum is relevant. My gut reaction is yes, but I can't back that up with current tech.

5:09 PM

@PhilLello It seems like you are suggesting "needs it" and "cruel" are mutually exclusive.

@KitZ.Fox Well, I'd define cruel as unnecessary, so yes

Yes, but would you define unnecessary as cruel?

@KitZ.Fox Not necessarily

BarryTheHatchet

ugh I totally want to run away and leave this mess for someone else -.-

GIMME JOB LOLZ

@PhilLello So they can't be mutually exclusive, right?

It has to work in both directions for that to be true. Anyway, I was just kidding around.

Trying to sound like a sociopathic parent.

He was really anxious, but then he had no problem at all.

We put a request in to the tooth fairy for an evening pickup.

5:20 PM

@KitZ.Fox Glad to hear it

Anyway, to answer my own question above, since any practical error checking mechanism is based on applying a lossy algorithm to a packet to generate a magic number, all data-link layers would seem to be susceptible to errors they can't detect. so a further check higher up the stack is prudent - and missing an error at two layers is highly unlikely. I'm thinking too much about an interview the other day - just because OSI layer 2 should catch corruption, doesn't mean it always will.

Or am I losing the plot?

@KitZ.Fox No, these conditions are also not mutually exclusive

that sounds like how I think it works, yes

there's always the bajillionty to one chance that the bits get flipped in your payload and checksum and signature at the same time in just the right way that the other guy receives a 100% valid message that you didn't send

but once you throw in the asymmetrically encrypted signature that "bajillionty" is on the scale of "maybe once before the heat death of the universe if you're lucky" so it should be fine crosses fingers

I'm hazy on modern network hardware; are there common media types that use asymmetrically encrypted signatures though? Or is this (for now) always the responsibility of something higher up the stack?

I haven't heard of such things existing below the SSL layer, though I know next to nothing about how it works outside the web browser, maybe the special anti-3rd-party-peripheral chips in game consoles and phones and such do something like that at a lower level

5:37 PM

This is a better question for programmers.stackexchange.com — mkaatman just now

Anyone know where I can find the legal data ranges for Tableau? My google fu is failing me, maybe one of you guys know the right terminology...

I just love getting a nice comment on one of my answers, telling me how great it is. How is it these comments are rarely accompanied by a vote?

@AaronHall what site?

SO baby

sorry, is "baby" too informal?

I'm going to write a formal pop song. Definitely not going to say "bae".

Who wrote good pop songs with formal language?

Concise: Silex exposes an intuitive and concise API that is fun to use.

That's good. I like my APis to be fun.

5:52 PM

This is a good one: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Your_Song

Ok, for real, anyone got a tip on figuring out, e.g. legal date ranges?

SO voting is super weird though..

I like to say, "Thanks for the nice comment and thanks for your votes!"

enderland just upvoted the answer on SO that was helpful to him recently

(but was sitting in a tab, unvoted on...)

user41796

Dude. Nobody votes on SO anymore. That's like, so ... yesterday.

Yeah, that's true, but at the point you know to write a nice comment, you could click the little up arrow too.

user41796

5:54 PM

StackExchange has had to write bots that place random comments on answers like "Great answer!" in order to make it look like people still use the site.

e.g.

@Spike thanks for that, and thanks for voting! — Aaron Hall 26 mins ago

user41796

Looks to be a well developed bot. Impressive that SE would go to that level of effort to build out a personality around a bot.

user41796

You'd think though that if they're going to go through all of that effort to create a bot that they would let it vote too.

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