The Whiteboard

user114359

12:00 AM

@Ixrec Doesn't seem to be bad today... they're probably talking about a different one.

BarryTheHatchet

what happened?

who's talking about what?

Ixrec

we're asking who's talking about stuff and no one's saying anything

I'm starting to think no one's talking

Duga

This is a great question for programmers.stackexchange.com because it's an "at the whiteboard" question. — jsve 24 secs ago

I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because this should be on programmers.stackexchange.com. — jsve 56 secs ago

Duga

12:37 AM

Probably better suited for programmers.stackexchange.com — Marc K 47 secs ago

Robert Harvey

Discussion on question by Qix: These …

Imported from a comment discussion on meta.stackoverflow.com/q...

Duga

IMHO this question could be better served at (Security)[security.stackexchange.com/] or (Programming)[programmers.stackexchange.com/] as this seems to be more of a design than a code question. — R4PH43L 48 secs ago

Aaron Hall

Emacs meetup is almost over.

Ixrec

@RobertHarvey wow, glad I wasn't there when that happened

> First off, I gotta say that I really detest bounties. I hate that we have a bounty system, and generally-speaking I hate that people use it. But I also recognize that it's sort of a necessary evil, like gambling or usury: if folks are gonna do it anyway, we're better off creating a low-resistance path that we can regulate than driving a black market for it.

I had no idea

durron597

12:55 AM

@RobertHarvey This is what happens when I am not around to keep those guys in shape

user55340

@GlenH7 you know you're a regular at the BBQ place when you go on Monday night and the guy working mentions "I've saved some ends..."

Robert Harvey

1:30 AM

So, if I understand this correct, it is only fraud if the the moderator can prove that the "sole purpose was transferring reputation". And the only way that I can figure which they can prove that is if the user came out and said that was the sole purpose, as is the case with the most recent of this user's bounties. Am I understanding this correctly? — Tiny Giant 18 mins ago

[sigh]

user55340

The answer is clearly retroactively remove all bounties and remove the system.

user55340

What was nefarious? it is very transparent from the chat transcripts what I said and did and it was very transparent why, I figured you were being sarcastic, I do not award bounties to anyone that asks, I award bounties as I see fit for the circumstances. There is nothing malicious or damaging to the site giving someone a ~1K bump over the line. You are 2.4K from 10K. It did not come from SOCVR, it came from *ME, I just happened to unilaterally decided to do what I did for people I saw were trying to "Make SO Great Again!"™ so sue me. No ring, just *me regardless of @Qix claims. — Jarrod Roberson 1 min ago

user55340

1:46 AM

Part of the conflict here appears to be the difficulty with which one can get into the group of people who will close vote on SO. If someone is going to honestly vote on questions and take part in community moderation while having demonstrated some competence at making choices that lead to a better site (and thats part of the issue - definition of 'better')... let them.

user55340

The escalating wording in the comments over there suggest I'd not want to bet against another high profile leaving.

Robert Harvey

I think there was a bit more to it in this case than Jarrod was letting on.

user55340

Possibly. I'm just sitting here with popcorn.

user55340

However, Travis isn't making it any better.

user55340

I think you're being a little too hard on the Close Vote Reviewers room here. I personally don't see collusion between the members of this room, nor do I think this was orchestrated by them. This was one person trying to boost up people to help with moderation tasks. In general, my interactions with that room have been positive. These are people who care enough about the moderation of this site to dedicate significant time to it. At worst, you could fault members for occasionally being a little too invested in moderation, but that's it. — Brad Larson ♦ 26 mins ago

Robert Harvey

1:49 AM

Only Martijn Peters knows for sure.

And he's not talking.

-1 lack of research effort, OP 400,000 years late on discovery of fire. — Captain Obvious 2 days ago

user55340

@RobertHarvey Some people just want to find an easier way to do things... and some people just want to watch it burn.

user41796

3:20 AM

@MichaelT That's quite awesome. The local A-list joints are known to have signs that say "No direct tipping of staff." Used to be a huge issue where you could slip a little cash to the guy building your sandwich and end up with a mountain of decadently smoked yumminess.

user55340

@GlenH7 This is a fasterish food joint (it was faster than 5 guys the other night) - not tipping. Its just being a regular - every monday night.

user41796

That definitely helps.

user55340

I probably also get about 20-30% more meat than I'm supposed to according to the scale (the guy doesn't weigh it anymore).

user55340

btw, when you have time to think about it - github.com/the-whiteboard/the-whiteboard.github.io/issues/6

user55340

Aaron Hall

3:25 AM

This one is fun:

8

Q: How can I deal with troublesome Professional Engineer?

I currently manage a team of about 25 engineers and developers in a subdivision of a Canadian tech company working out of Ottawa. Things normally run smoothly, but we've had a serious problem with a senior engineer as of late. This engineer is the sole engineer on our team with his Professional ...

user55340

snorgtees.com/t-shirts/less-whine-more-wine (the image above)

Aaron Hall

man, is that ever going to box up?

and it did.

I tell you what, nothing like nepotism to really mess up a company.

Or even the appearance of it.

I had a coworker at AEFA who's dad was a big time broker at Salomon Smith Barney or Morgan Stanley or one of those BD's and his dad made him work to build up his own book of clients at AEFA in another city before letting him come join his team.

Duga

3:44 AM

StackOverflow tends to frown on doing assignments for people, but at the very least you might get a more warm welcome at Programmers instead: programmers.stackexchange.com It's meant for best practice/advice, compared to StackOverflow which is a technical issue/bug/technical reference question site. — Nex Terren 30 secs ago

Aaron Hall

wow, I flagged that as non-constructive

Duga

This should really be in programmers.stackexchange.com, this has the potential to be opinionated. — 058 094 041 1 min ago

Aaron Hall

I flagged that one too

user55340

4:01 AM

@AaronHall its a good portion of it. A lot of people seem to have the wrong idea about the site. The options are either accept their idea, or keep closing questions.

user55340

You may find referencing this meta post useful...

user55340

82

Q: What goes on Programmers.SE? A guide for Stack Overflow

You're on Stack Overflow and you've found a question that isn't about coding. It's about design or something squishy like that. You are trying to be helpful, and you put a comment in the question: You should try asking on Programmers.SE instead. --YourName 2 minutes ago ... and suddenly, ou...

discussion faq migration scope site-rec

Aaron Hall

4:34 AM

Maybe you need another post, titled "You must be this tall to ride."

user114359

5:03 AM

@AaronHall Questions that are POB or requesting "advice" on pretty much anything tend to be discussions as well:

user114359

34

Q: On discussions and why they don't make good questions

I'll start off with the irony of this question being tagged with a discussion and point out that meta is different. Why don't discussion questions work in Stack Exchange? What is it about the software and the format that leads to people closing these questions as primarily opinion? or rejecting ...

discussion close-reasons faq-proposed

Robert Harvey

6:12 AM

5

Q: Can a homunculus activate my Immovable Rod?

The Immovable Rod says: You can use an action to press the button (DMG, p175.) An humunculus "is a construct that acts as an extension of its creator". Can your humunculus push the darned button on your Immovable Rod?

dnd-5e magic-items

SE game site titles never fail to amuse.

In other news, my roommate uses old, dirty sponges to clean the kitchen countertop, "because antibacterial soap."

Ixrec

7:51 AM

@Snowman this post you linked in your question is a very interesting perspective on the exceptions thing, it reminds me of how C++ concluded the only truly useful exception specification is "throws nothing at all"

on the other hand, the fact that Java's standard library is obviously not designed as this guy describes does kind of torpedo it as a valid exception strategy; you can't retroactively change Runnable.run() to allow checked exceptions to pass through it

Ixrec

9:58 AM

usually there's a much longer gap than that between the "this site sucks" meta posts

Duga

12:31 PM

Maybe you should also take a look at programmers.stackexchange.com — xpy 57 secs ago

Thomas Owens

There's a directory on a server called /data. Inside of /data, there's a directory data that is a symbolic link to /data. This does not work well when you are scanning /data recursively. :\ I will find someone.

Thomas Owens

12:53 PM

@KitZ.Fox You've been reading about Disciplined Agile Delivery, but I started to look at Scaled Agile Framework. Have you done that yet? There's so little content on their website. It's almost like it's a commercial framework that you need to go to their training and get their certifications to understand, unlike other agile methods that have slightly more open literature.

Large-Scale Scrum is more readily accessible than SAFe.

The SAFe Guide to Implementing is pretty much "Step 1: Come to us to train the people leading your agile transformation. Step 2a: Train your managers and leadership in our framework. Step 2b: Train your teams in our framework. Step 3: Roll out our framework. And by the way, we have all these training courses and consultants ready to help you for $$$$."

BarryTheHatchet

fucking dog next door starts barking as soon as the neighbours leave argggghhhhh

Thomas Owens

@BarryTheHatchet Is it a tiny dog?

BarryTheHatchet

@ThomasOwens yes

Thomas Owens

@BarryTheHatchet Small dogs often have separation anxiety.

BarryTheHatchet

@ThomasOwens I figure she reckons they left her behind.

Probably not helped by the fact that they rarely leave her alone

Thomas Owens

12:59 PM

Yeah. Small dogs like to be in groups, I think.

That's why a lot of people with small dogs have two.

BarryTheHatchet

Still, you'd think she'd realise they always come back and that they can't hear her

I have abandonment issues but you don't see me yapping for hours on end

(inb4 yes we do)

Thomas Owens

Our small dog learned that we go to work and that we come home. Although she does get upset if we leave late at night, she usually is quiet once we're gone. We've hung out in the hallway to see.

BarryTheHatchet

> We've hung out in the hallway to see.

mmm not convinced

Thomas Owens

Our apartment is on the third floor, right next to the elevators.

BarryTheHatchet

dogs seem to have a sense for these things

wouldn't surprise me at all if they turned out to be mildly psychic

Thomas Owens

1:01 PM

She's quiet enough to not be heard through the door when we're in the hallway at the elevators.

BarryTheHatchet

either that or they're extremely perceptive when it comes to being ready and waiting when you've just decided you want to walk them

Thomas Owens

She is able to tell locations really well. Like when we're on a roadtrip, she always wakes up and gets excited about 5-10 minutes from home.

BarryTheHatchet

but then if they were so perceptive you'd think they'd notice there's no reason to panic when you nip out to the shops

@ThomasOwens see I find that really impressive

Thomas Owens

And it doesn't matter where we are coming from or what roads we're on. Even after we moved...she just knew.

BarryTheHatchet

a human asleep on the train will just stay asleep with no clue where they are

hell, a human awake on the train will miss stations

I reckon our "higher functions" block out a lot of our base intuitions

(404 data not found)

Thomas Owens

1:05 PM

In other news, I'm debating just deleting the symlink data to /data that's in /data.

Because that's just dumb that anyone did that.

But if someone relies on it...

Well, they shouldn't rely on stupid crap.

BarryTheHatchet

Agreed

Perhaps send out an email to everyone asking why it's there and asking whether there are any objections to removing it

amon

@ThomasOwens Maybe you shouldn't rely on symlinks maintaining an acyclic graph?

BarryTheHatchet

But you should also make your code better

A symlink that causes a recursive tree is fairly easy to detect

Thomas Owens

@BarryTheHatchet Yeah, except why should it exist?

BarryTheHatchet

Only the person who created it can answer that, so ask them!

Thomas Owens

1:09 PM

I sent the email. Most people don't show up for another hour.

BarryTheHatchet

Then you'll know in a couple of hours - problem solved!

amon

@ThomasOwens “this is your data directory. You'll find files ./a.conf and ./b.properties here, and ./data for all other data”

BarryTheHatchet

@amon eh

I would assume it's to workaround some badly-configured tool, or to present a conventional interface that in this particular case happens to be dumb (because ./ innit)

It could also be a mistake

A VPS I was provisioning a few years ago managed to end up with a symlink to / somewhere, and I didn't quite grasp that my recursive filesystem wasn't just a copy gone wrong, so I hard-deleted it hehe

that was the end of that migration...

Whatever you do, though, don't just nuke it before talking to anyone - there's little worse than team members who simply delete stuff without asking first!

Thomas Owens

Yeah. The owner of the directory is "nobody", though. Which is weird. That's not normal, is it?

BarryTheHatchet

In other news, the dog's stopped.

Thomas Owens

1:14 PM

So I just emailed the whole team.

BarryTheHatchet

@ThomasOwens There's no way to define what "normal" is when the context is "sysadminning any arbitrary system ever"

@ThomasOwens Let us know what muppetry their responses reveal :)

amon

@ThomasOwens some systems have a “nobody” user for non-privileged daemons etc. Since that user should have no special privileges, it can't accidentally destroy anything (except of course your sanity).

My /etc/passwd has an entry nobody:x:65534:65534:nobody:/nonexistent:/usr/sbin/nologin

Thomas Owens

Yeah. I just don't know what would have created this symlink. This is in our test environment. It's a RAID array that stores raw data and post-processed data.

BarryTheHatchet

Jenkins and Docker working great for me so far on our new server. Except SCM Polling is being broken by parameterised builds, even though I gave a default for each parameter sigh

-1 lack of research effort, OP 400,000 years late on discovery of fire. — Captain Obvious 2 days ago

amon

@BarryTheHatchet I have a separate polling job which then triggers the parametrized build.

BarryTheHatchet

1:23 PM

@amon Is that because you had the same problem, or just because? (Allegedly this is "supposed" to work as-is)

amon

@BarryTheHatchet In my case, because the Git branch to build is a job parameter. But it works. Which is rather nice, given that things rarely work quite as I intended with Jenkins…

BarryTheHatchet

@amon yeah same but that's supposed to work if you supply a default value for the parameter? in my case "trunk"

according to the little help bubbles that's pretty much why the Default option exists

so I don't get why the interpolation isn't happening for SCM polling

> things rarely work quite as I intended with Jenkins…

I'm finding that a little bit too

Peter Tòmas Scott

1:38 PM

I was going to use Jenkins but abandoned it in favour of seemingly simpler solutions. It looks like ti can be a very powerful tool but also like it might become a black-hole for configuration and setup time.

Ixrec

We have a Jenkins job that generates most of our other Jenkins jobs.

user55340

2:11 PM

@PeterTòmasScott fwiw, the user you responded to on meta has a history of very broad questions and meta rants.

Peter Tòmas Scott

@MichaelT I don't much care about that user. I would like to have a discussion that addresses the issue with an aim to actually solving it; instead of just slagging people off and proclaiming that the site is a failure.

Ixrec

I only wish I had something to contribute to that discussion

but, big surprise, I've kinda done it a few times already, so everything I have to say you've probably skimmed on meta already

Peter Tòmas Scott

Upon seeing the question they posted, I felt it was the right time to try and redirect things into a more worthwhile area; if I manage to get that user to be ore constructive at the same time then all for the better.

user55340

@Ixrec I've said all I want to across the past three years there. The rude comments about gnat are... Problematic.

Ixrec

and as usual, all of the suggestions fall into the two general categories of "things only SE can do" or "stop being so mean"

user55340

2:15 PM

Oh, it's on MSE now too.

Ixrec

escalation to MSE is essentially admitting you lost the argument

user55340

0

Q: I suggest a mechanic to improve quality of life for questions that could be improved

Problem A problem I've noticed on certain networks is that questions which have potential, need improvement, and could be salvaged are quickly down-voted and closed and even deleted within the first few hours. This kind of self moderation skips the possibility of training users to ask better...

discussion

Ixrec

actually I can't tell if that's the same issue or a legitimately more general one

enderland

what is a link to the discussion you're all referring to?

Peter Tòmas Scott

Yeah, that is generally where the solutions lie. I like the idea of using a combination of: site sub-title, displaying the site scope directly next to the 'ask question' interface, and an introductory blurb.

5

Q: Great Expectations... or, at least, user expectations

Well I just saw a second Meta question expressing strong ill-will for this site after first witnessing this, seemingly well-trodden, battlefield. Given that I am already weary of it, I can only assume that others are much more so, but bear with me. The problem Breaking this down into as simple ...

discussion close-reasons scope polling

Ixrec

2:17 PM

@enderland basically the last 2-3 meta posts, but the one Peter just linked is the most potentially worthwhile part of it

Peter Tòmas Scott

But, as @Ixrec says these all require SE input.

Ixrec

2 mins ago, by Ixrec

and as usual, all of the suggestions fall into the two general categories of "things only SE can do" or "stop being so mean"

at least I think everything you just mentioned is SE, maybe one or two is a mod power if we're lucky

Peter Tòmas Scott

I have no idea how responsive SE are... are they quite good, or is it like the UN?

Ixrec

you happen to have missed the great 3 CV experiment

enderland

^

Ixrec

2:19 PM

opinions vary wildly on how to interpret whatever the heck happened there, so...

12

Q: 3 votes for closing/reopening experiment: the results

I'm sure you remember this experiment, which changed the required number of close/reopen votes from 5 to 3. Before getting to the meat of the analysis, I should point out that the change worked almost exactly as intended. Close votes clustered around 3 and the median time to close dropped noticab...

discussion vote-to-close experiment

BarryTheHatchet

Anyone mind Castle spoilers?

Ixrec

19

Q: The CV experiment has officially failed...but what are we supposed to do about it?

It should come as a surprise to no one that I am disappointed about the 3 close vote experiment being deemed a failure by the powers that be. Whether or not we did "fail" (and what that even means) is a big issue, which is already being hashed out in the answers to that question. But there's anot...

discussion experiment

I'll let you judge for yourself wtf happened from those threads

Peter Tòmas Scott

Ta

BarryTheHatchet

@PeterTòmasScott We've used a nightly build script written by yours truly in PHP for several years. And to be honest it works just fine. All we're really gaining here is a web GUI, but it's a nice one!

Ixrec

@BarryTheHatchet nope, that's one of the shows I saw randomly ordered episodes from because yay live television so none of it counts as a spoiler to me as there's a fifty-fifty chance it won't have happened anymore next time

enderland

2:21 PM

oh fun the holy war is back on meta

Ixrec

whenever I reply to Supergirl my brain goes "that's not Barry, why does SE think I clicked on some guy called Barry?"

BarryTheHatchet

@Ixrec Summer Glau was on this week :D

@Ixrec hahaha

(starred despite comma splice)

Ixrec

you will never stop my splices

enderland

@RobertHarvey your comment about the sandbox is brilliant

user55340

(Btw, my vtd on that question was because comments were going off the rails even at the very first one. The OP has shown in the past little intent on fixing the question and instead wants discussions on the various answers. The initial dive into drama doesn't help. And that it got two other prompt 20k votes seems to suggest that others concur)

Phil Lello

2:25 PM

That would be your Mexican Jumping Capacitor. It's actually a larval moth living inside the capacitor that will move around as the circuit heats up. If you forget to tie the capacitor to ground, the motion can get quite dramatic. As a trivial aside, it can be demonstrated that this phenomenon is behind the colloquial use of the term "bug" in a circuit. — Scott Seidman 22 hours ago

Jimmy Hoffa

Happy Coffee Day

user55340

(10k link programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/312062/… )

Ixrec

admittedly, "we deleted it because you're causing drama" is probably going to get taken exactly the wrong way by that user

Phil Lello

@michaelt I assume the answer is to write a CPU emulator in javascript.

Ixrec

@PhilLello I would be shocked if no one has done this yet

user55340

2:27 PM

@Ixrec asm.js? Or visual 6502?

Ixrec

probably not for every architecture

Phil Lello

@ixrec I'd be shocked if at least a Z80 isn't on a CS or EE course somewhere.

Ixrec

one of my upper division courses had us make a simple CPU in some CAD tool, I remember really enjoying that one

user55340

@PhilLello visual6502.org

Peter Tòmas Scott

@BarryTheHatchet Well I'm currently using PHPCI and it does the job with really simple configuration. It's obviously much more limited than Jenkins but I'm OK with that for the ease of use.

user55340

2:30 PM

Some past exchanges: chat.stackexchange.com/search?q=Jt0dd&room=21

enderland

I think that P.SE would benefit from overall higher moderator engagement too, I don't see much on the main site from... nearly any moderator other than Thomas and perhaps Yannis

user55340

Including this early interaction:

enderland

I can't imagine P.SE has that many flags, too, and as a moderator elsewhere I know how meaningful and influential moderators taking consistent guiding actions rather than just downvoting can be

Ixrec

I kinda gave up on using the whole flag system early on...not sure if that's a common issue

user55340

@enderland The question there - is the community moderating the site in the right direction? If so and there aren't many flags... then why get mods involved?

user55340

2:34 PM

But I suspect that the mods are as confused as the community as a whole about the direction that SE wants us to go in.

Ixrec

yeah, half the reason I started bringing up the name change thing so frequently was because maple_shaft strongly advocated for that during the 3 CV snafu; before that I assumed I was just being silly

BarryTheHatchet

That meta OP is being a bit of a child, but (and I've said this many times before) it's blatantly obvious that P.SE does have a huge problem. Not sure why some of y'all can't see it when things are only this bad on this site.

Consider taking the opportunity to find solutions rather than just continue on your present, self-destructive course.

Ixrec

did any of us claim there isn't a problem?

BarryTheHatchet

some have in the past

or have at least claimed that the problem lies ... not in the community of people who run the site

a bit of a "it's not you it's me" thing needed I think

user55340

How do we get those 37 closed posts that day on topic? How many are salvageable by us?

Ixrec

2:37 PM

feel free to make your own meta post if you think you have something new to add

user55340

I really want to know how many people think we're off on.

Ixrec

no one ever answers that question

user55340

Every time I ask I get silence. SE completely ignores it.

BarryTheHatchet

@Ixrec I do and I do not

(in that order)

Does seem kind of strange that all the posts on the topic that are posted get downvoted to oblivion too, though. Not sure whether it's intentional but it comes across as a "no, there's no problem!" response, which is again ludicrous!

user55340

Until we can get a handle on that, it is rather hard to say what needs to change.

BarryTheHatchet

2:40 PM

Now, back to the scotch-infused coffee!

Ixrec

1) because most of them are non-constructive rants
2) the ones that aren't rants actually get upvoted, as today just proved

enderland

@BarryTheHatchet well if you write a meta post saying "you guys are horrible" with no actionable plan, what do you expect?

user55340

On topic doesn't mean not too broad or poorly researched.

enderland

for example:

0

Q: Getting RowCount without wasting resources

I have a large SQL query that relates 6-7 different tables and returns fourteen different rows as distinct sets, in a union with an equally-large query, that at times can return over a thousand results. Luckily for us, we have the option to simply return the first 100 results of that query, whi...

programming-practices sql efficiency

this is a Stack Overflow question, or potentially Code Review

it's a good question though

is it P.SE's fault that the question was asked here?

Ixrec

I don't think it's answerable in its current state though, he doesn't say what the query is or what database he's using or anything else that the SO/CR guys could actually look at

user41796

2:42 PM

@enderland Obviously.

Peter Tòmas Scott

Well as I see it, it is unquestionable that there is a big gap between what this site is for and what most people coming to the site homepage think it is for. I would like to see someone from SE that can actually do something about small feature changes speak to use about what can be done.

3

BarryTheHatchet

@enderland I concur

I take back what I said as I've just found the constructive version

and it seems to be getting a better reception

Ixrec

@PeterTòmasScott yep, add some jadedness and that's exactly how I feel

BarryTheHatchet

@PeterTòmasScott also, to be fair, most people are stupid ;)

Peter Tòmas Scott

I expect that things like a site sub-title (or tagline) and a blurb etc could make a big difference. They are only small changes but would require SE support.

user55340

2:44 PM

@PeterTòmasScott there is. It also exists on SO. We tend to be an afterthought for most design issues.

enderland

I think also Stack Overflow only survives the "poor quality" because there is so much that it is impossible to have all the bad questions downvoted/closed. I suspect that if SO had a proportionally active community to P.SE, in terms of users/questions asked, that SO would look worse for downvoted/closed questions

Ixrec

that, and it's just so incredibly huge that everyone expects a site like that to have loads of junk alongside the useful bits

Kit Z. Fox

@ThomasOwens I wrote down that I should look at Scaled, based on something I was reading. I think it was because it was suggested for remote teams, but I'm not positive that is why.

Ixrec

and SE gave it special magic algorithms that clean up a large portion thereof

enderland

that certainly helps

BarryTheHatchet

2:47 PM

0

A: What does “We will have to keep you for future reference” mean?

It means "no". You asked for more money, and they declined to provide it. Your counter-offer was rejected. Furthermore, they do not appear to wish to continue negotiating. "We will have to keep you for future reference" has somewhat odd wording, but imagine them sighing and putting your CV into...

woot

got it in there

enderland

maybe I'll write up a post "what would it take to get a triage type of system here"

Ixrec

though that's really all I know about SO, I moved over here early on because my expertise is completely useless on that site but occasionally useful here

@enderland did gnat never write a proper post on that?

Kit Z. Fox

@BarryTheHatchet Is the wrong 'barry' intentional?

enderland

@Ixrec it can't come from gnat

Ixrec

agreed

user41796

2:48 PM

@PeterTòmasScott - I only skimmed the transcript, but I didn't see this explicitly mentioned. Viziionary has a (long) history with the site, pretty much all of it negative. Generally speaking, his words reflect him as a self-entitled and immature person who doesn't understand why the whole world picks on him. Said more constructively, I don't think you'll see a meaningful conversation from him.

BarryTheHatchet

Feb 25 at 22:48, by PreferenceBean

(there's only one 'barry')

Kit Z. Fox

So is it intentional that you are using a person's name and not "bury" per the expression?

enderland

there is... alot of truth in those meta posts about his singlehanded influence on P.SE being negative imo

also @Ixrec:

For both of them, I would have to first rewrite the entire 75-line query to have non-sensitive aliases and DB Schemas so that they could poke at it, and then I would probably just be told that there's other problems with the query, without ever getting an actual answer to the question I'm really asking - What's the most efficient way to get a Rowcount for a complex query? — Zibbobz 51 secs ago

BarryTheHatchet

@KitZ.Fox Yes.

enderland

@Viziionary I encourage you to spend some time trying to edit, comment, and improve questions here before so completely assuming it is possible to "fix" as many as you suggest. It is easy to tell others what to do when you don't understand what it is you are asking them to do. — enderland 5 secs ago

BarryTheHatchet

2:50 PM

That's the whole point of the name. It's a play on a commonly used phrase, transmogrified into a name by virtue of someone's silly brain-typo.

Kit Z. Fox

OK. Just checking.

Ixrec

@enderland this is sounding like an issue that can't be solved by a Q&A

BarryTheHatchet

Thanks for the spell-check, clippy :D

user55340

He's been question banned multiple times for poorly asked broad and discussion questions.

enderland

@Ixrec no you are wrong it's clearly on topic why can't you see! :(

Ixrec

2:51 PM

oh it's on-topic, just unclear

Kit Z. Fox

@BarryTheHatchet It looks like you are trying to make a joke. Would you like help?

blink, blink

user55340

programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/246184/…

user55340

> I've noticed this word used ( Scrum ) which I think refers to a project management practice.

What is a very general explanation of Scrum?

BarryTheHatchet

@KitZ.Fox not from this room, certainly

user55340

programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/246185/…

user55340

2:53 PM

> I noticed the term "waterfall" referencing a practice that would be unacceptable, in a question recently.

What scenario does the term "waterfall" generally refer to in a programming project?

Peter Tòmas Scott

@GlenH7 I think your assessment of him is probably correct. The conversation isn't really for him; it's to re-frame the conversation from "All you Programmers.SE guys are a******s" to "how can we solve this problem?". If the discussion is to be had, better that it be started with the latter than the former.

user41796

@PeterTòmasScott Yes, and I think you were wise to open a different question about the actual discussion

BarryTheHatchet

Yeah and it caused even that guy to response much more constructively

user41796

I mostly wanted to give you a warning to not waste your time if you had any expectations of a meaningful conversation... :-)

enderland

enderland takes note

BarryTheHatchet

2:54 PM

It's a textbook example of how "editing" (which is sort of what you've done by reposting the original question in a flame-free form) and refocusing produces far better results than downvoting to oblivion. Perhaps there's a lesson there.

user41796

He has been given constructive feedback in the past. And his response has always been "No, you're wrong, I'm right. And moreover, you're an asshat because you dared to suggest I'm wrong."

BarryTheHatchet

starred for contextless lulz

user55340

Starting out a new question with a comment of:

user55340

> I figured I'd get a -1 from gnat as usual, he's, as usual, being a gnat, down voting posts without suggesting any reason or improvement. He basically has the contribution to the SE network of a bot, except spends less time focusing on each question than a script would, so he can zoom to edit and downvote the next question. – Viziionary 5 hours ago

user55340

Not a good sign.

Peter Tòmas Scott

2:56 PM

@GlenH7 Duly noted

user41796

There's an epic MSE rant out there too

BarryTheHatchet

I didn't realise that "we won't change the name" was (a) under the assumption that there wasn't even wide community support for it, and (b) four years ago

hardly a constitutional dictat

Ixrec

I reasked it several times during the 3 CV thing but we never got a clear response

user55340

-15

Q: What can I do when I'm up-against high rep users that are using the system to their own liking instead of as it should be used?

This thing isn't about my specific closed question here. It's really about the issue of a small group of the most active users in a site affecting the masses in negative ways. I feel like I'm being "crowd bullied" on Programmers SE. I've disagreed with a few users there in the past. Those peop...

discussion

Ixrec

tbh it felt like that sub-question was getting ignored

BarryTheHatchet

2:58 PM

I wish bots would stop posting child porn to my Photography group

@Ixrec oh

Peter Tòmas Scott

Is there a specific mechanism on the Meta sites for getting SE to review things? If so I would suggest that we get 2 or 3 feature requests designed to address the misunderstanding problem and then get SE guys to review.

Ixrec

since Jon commented on my "what do we do now?" meta post, I assume he saw the very highly upvoted maple_shaft answer saying we should change the name, and chose to say nothinga bout it

enderland

@PeterTòmasScott post and pray?

user41796

@PeterTòmasScott That's another gripe amongst the masses. SE is unfortunately inconsistent in tracking requests like that

user55340

@BarryTheHatchet there was four years ago too. Though just as gnat has a single focus, so too does Rachel. And SE appears to have gotten tired of that issue and said "no" firmly.

Ixrec

2:59 PM

@PeterTòmasScott half of meta SE is variations on that question

Discussion on question by Qix: These …

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