The Whiteboard

8:01 PM

I'm thinking that a per-format marshalling / unmarshalling structure may be better than a per message marshalling / unmarshalling structure.

user114359

@ThomasOwens whenever I feel the need to do that I find it helps to take a step back and find a different design. Depending on how the marshaling code works, it might be simpler to add typecasts where necessary and bury the ugly in framework-level code.

Thomas Owens

@Snowman Yeah, I'm trying to just expose a nice interface to marshal and unmarshal.

user114359

I am a-okay with putting ugly but functional code in the basement that is auto-generated utility code that is written once and basically ignored, sort of like plumbing in the walls.

Thomas Owens

Some unmarshaling is going to be ugly as hell.

user114359

Yeah, make a pretty public interface that simple and intuitive. That is the important part.

Duga

8:04 PM

@LightningRacisinObrit as Glen said, this question is a very poor fit for Programmers - it would be quickly voted down and closed over there, see meta.programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/6582/… Recommended reading: What goes on Programmers.SE? A guide for Stack Overflow — gnat 35 secs ago

whatsisname

-3

Q: How can I make my CASE statements more efficient and shorten the amount of code

I'm taking part in this Daily Challenge on http://www.reddit.com/r/dailyprogrammer/comments/29zut0/772014_challenge_170_easy_blackjack_checker/ Basically, you have to develop a program that runs two blackjack players and outputs the winner, the user has no input on the player's choices - basical...

this needs help or closing

Thomas Owens

I want to bury the JAXB for XML outputting (since the XSD is a total disaster, the autogenerated code is a disaster, but it's better than actually outputting the XML any other way).

I also want to bury the byte[] conversions just because it's converting things to byte arrays.

user41796

@whatsisname design guidance is on-topic, but the review needs to have something more specific than "how do I do this better?" I voted as too broad.

Duga

@reto as ratchetfreak said, this question is a very poor fit for Programmers - it would be quickly voted down and closed over there, see meta.programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/6483/… Recommended reading: What goes on Programmers.SE? A guide for Stack Overflow — gnat 15 secs ago

user20683

@GlenH7 I migrated it on the understanding that if it gets kicked back, I'll mercy kill it

user20683

8:08 PM

at least until we can reanimate it as something more specific

user41796

It's arguably on-topic there since it is working code

user20683

@GlenH7 if the arguments are insufficient, they will return false :)

user41796

I would have just baptized it in napalm to be done with it. But I'm apparently not very generous today

Thomas Owens

What I'm trying to wrap my head around is that I'm given an arbitrary String of XML. I have no idea how to tell what XML type it is.

user41796

@ThomasOwens That's a non-trivial problem due to the complexities of XML. Can you throw it into a parser instead?

user41796

8:10 PM

ie. someone else has already done the hard work there

Thomas Owens

@GlenH7 blog.eldslott.org/2010/07/15/jaxb2-unmarshal-to-unknown-type

That may answer my question. Page 2 of google for me. I rarely go past page 1.

user114359

@ThomasOwens is it at least a complete XML document? Or just a fragment?

Thomas Owens

@Snowman It's a complete document.

I could use SAX or DOM to figure out the root...but that just seems weird.

It seems like JAXB, since it supports unserializing from strings, would have a way to determine the type.

user114359

Then I agree with @GlenH7, throw it into a parser and use DOM to figure it out.

Thomas Owens

Maybe I should use DOM instead of JAXB.

It wouldn't suck so much if my schema was actually well-thought out.

Telastyn

8:16 PM

hah!

user41796

Rant question: I have (inherited) a private method called "FormatDate" that receives a DateTime and returns a sting with the date in a specific format in order to comply with an external service's expectations. Wouldn't it be better to call the function "FormatDateToFooSpec" instead?

user41796

And by inherit, I mean it's another developer's code. Said developer is no longer with the company.

user20683

@GlenH7 ConvertDateToFormat

durron597

@GlenH7 no

not that either

user41796

@durron597 So you think FormatDate is fine?

user41796

8:21 PM

@WorldEngineer I like this better

durron597

The external service should have an entire class containing the behavior for conforming to their specifications

so it should be FooSpecHandler.FormatDate

user41796

Well, the external service is truly external - I have no control over it

durron597

and then you can have AnotherSpecHandler.FormatDate

user41796

But I could see the argument to have an internal handler / formatter for that service

durron597

ohh, they're calling you?

user41796

8:22 PM

No, I call them

durron597

and you just need to provide a random method just for them?

user41796

but if I don't give them the correct date format they nuke my request

user41796

It's akin to asking for historical commodity prices over a range of dates

enderland

its depressing when you have an issue you spend at least a day on and someone else solves in like 5 min

user20683

in my life, I'm reading HTTP, the definitive guide

durron597

8:23 PM

Right, so have a class (or an entire package, depending on the scope) that's full of code that caters to this service's specifications

enderland

guess that's why they are "senior engineers":)

durron597

then, in the relevant class, it will be obvious what FormatDate means

user20683

I feel like this might help me actually be good at that whole "web dev" thing

Thomas Owens

@WorldEngineer I don't get web dev, either. I thought of an interesting project to work on that may have been webby. But then I forgot it.

psr

@whatsisname My pet peeve is the place, usually a doctor's office or government agency, that makes you listen to a verbal FAQ covering every reason anyone has ever bothered them before you can even proceed to the hold music. Saves them perhaps 1 second for every minute of other people's time they waste, so pure win for them.

user41796

8:24 PM

@durron597 That makes sense. The current class is already looking like a big ball of mud

enderland

@psr our internal IT helpdesk has this lol. drives me nuts

user41796

I'm happier, my rant was well-enough founded. :-)

whatsisname

@psr: oh god yes

user41796

@WorldEngineer Deep knowledge of the protocols can lead you towards doing really crazy things

whatsisname

people that do that deserve to be put to death in an extra-special manner

user41796

8:25 PM

crazy in a good way, that is

user15026

@psr This is the worst thing ever

user41796

But if you have any inkling of playing in the security sphere, that's one route to get there

Thomas Owens

Wait. Do most unmarshallers return the highest level object and expect the user to cast it?

durron597

@GlenH7 Obviously, renaming the method is an improvement because it's easier than shaping the big ball of mud into pottery

user20683

@GlenH7 like specifying ports

Thomas Owens

8:26 PM

Because I just looked at three and they all appear to do that.

user20683

honestly, I'd rather do graphics work down the line I think

user41796

@durron597 Yep - And I like how you're saying that code shouldn't be there to begin with

user41796

@WorldEngineer Or even the hand shake aspects. Lots of intricate details to easily screw things up there

user41796

From a UI / graphics perspective, 3D will be an interesting space

durron597

@GlenH7 Only one reason to change. "FooSpec" changes and "whatever else the class does" changes sounds like more than one reason to me

user41796

8:27 PM

I believe iOS safari picked up svg abilities within the past year which will be a game changer. android chrome hasn't had them that much longer IIRC

user41796

@durron597 Or we switch to a different provider of Foo

durron597

@GlenH7 /me wonders if anyone has implemented Doom in javascript yet

@GlenH7 with different specifications, exactly

user20683

@durron597 they've implemented Unreal 3 or there abouts

user20683

Doom is long implemented

user20683

themarysue.com/javascript-doom

durron597

8:29 PM

@WorldEngineer that link is broken

user15026

@durron597 Works for me

user20683

@durron597 I'd forgotten about the legal takedown

durron597

> In accordance with Mozilla’s copyright infringement policy, this is to notify you of activity occurring on the Mozilla site listed below which infringes on the exclusive intellectual property rights of Id Software LLC, a wholly owned subsidiary of ZeniMax Media Inc. The copyrighted work at issue is Id Software’s proprietary software game DOOM® (“DOOM”). The link below offers an unauthorized derivation or version of Id Software’s DOOM game.

user15026

@durron597 Oh, you mean the game.

psr

@enderland I remember reading about (whatever company does WordPress) and how they divide staff up into "people getting the primary stuff done" and "people supporting the people getting the primary stuff done". They place IT in the latter category. So making the company conform to IT's convenience isn't allowed. They have to convince people why policies benefit the whole company. Clearly that's not happening there.

Thomas Owens

8:31 PM

I have a new question. How can I expose a nice interface to the client so that clients don't need to do type checking or type casting.

durron597

@AshleyNunn But there are 3d FPS written entirely in html / js?

user41796

No, I may not be right there

durron597

demos.playfuljs.com/raycaster

playfuljs.com/a-first-person-engine-in-265-lines

user20683

@ThomasOwens I was gonna say "don't you have type inference?" and then I remembered what language you are using

user15026

@durron597 no idea, not something I'd run into

Steven Burnap

8:43 PM

Does it count as "implemented in JavaScript" if it is just running on asm.js?

Duga

Questions saying "I want x" don't get good responses on Stack Overflow. A Stack Overflow version of this question might be, "I tried x and I got the following exception". You might possibly do better on Programmers, but please take the time to search there so you can see how the standards of that site differ from those of Stack Overflow. — John Saunders 1 min ago

gnat

9:35 PM

0

Q: Call center information

How do you answer the person who has reached the wrong number and does not believe that you can not help them even when you explain whoyou are and the correct phone so that they can get help. Also when you provide an naswer the person does not like even though it is correct how do you keep the...

stress

"I told you thousand times already, it's not a supermarket. It's f***ing Center of the Etiquette and Good Manners" — gnat 14 secs ago

Telastyn

you're missing a "motherfucker" somewhere in there...

user20683

@Telastyn amazon.com/Good-Manners-Nice-People-Sometimes-ebook/dp/…

Steven Burnap

True story: once when I was a developer for a large retailer, a customer called me by accident, and started ranting to me about his order. I kept trying to transfer him to the front desk but he kept demanding I help him personally. Finally, he yelled "I'm going to get you fired. I know who you are!", rattled off an extension that was not mine, then slammed the phone down.

user15026

@StevenBurnap I worked as a CSR for an insurance company, I had a woman who told me she would come to the call center to show adjudicators her mouth so they would approve her, and that she would "find me and haul me there with her"

Steven Burnap

In my case, I couldn't convince the guy that I had nothing to do with the call center, and hadn't the faintest idea how to transfer him there.

user15026

9:44 PM

@StevenBurnap Oh, fun. I just told the woman how she could -actually- get her claim dealt with, went in circles for a while, and then told her security would prevent her from entering the building if she were to try, so this was a better option for her.

user20683

we once had a preacher who was doing a book signing start screaming "The devil is a penis, the devil is a penis"

Telastyn

back in the day when I was a phone monkey at an ISP, I had this old Italian guy call me at 5 am because his favorite soccer team's website was down.

user20683

took us a good number of minutes to convince him to stop

Telastyn

I spent 5 minutes trying to explain that we in fact did not host the entire Internet, and could not fix his site.

user15026

@Telastyn Well what good are you then.

user15026

9:46 PM

@WorldEngineer Is? Not has?

user15026

And whose?

user15026

I HAVE SO MANY QUESTIONS

Telastyn

@AshleyNunn - I told him that I'd take a look at it and call back (after my shift) if it wasn't working by then.

user20683

@AshleyNunn I don't have answers, only more crazies

user15026

@Telastyn Nicely done.

user15026

9:47 PM

@WorldEngineer I can imagine.

user15026

The bitcoin sportsbook I worked for had crazies, but they were most of the angry type.

user20683

and that one guy who was a troll, spammer, compulsive gambler, and would DDOS when he didn't get his way

user15026

@WorldEngineer Oh yes.

gnat

@AshleyNunn post them at Programmers? preferably all caps

user15026

That was always good.

user15026

9:49 PM

@gnat I am pretty sure if I start yelling about the devil and penises on your site, someone's gonna get mad.

gnat

@AshleyNunn I bet you mean Robert Harvey

Telastyn

"bitcoin sportsbook".... I'm not sure I can think of a less scrupulous employer

user20683

@Telastyn bitcoin strip club

Telastyn

but people like strip clubs...

user20683

@Telastyn I live in the south

Telastyn

9:52 PM

then you really like strip clubs?

user20683

@Telastyn I personally loathe them

user15026

@Telastyn It was its own brand of special.

Telastyn

@WorldEngineer - nod to each their own.

user20683

@Telastyn indeed

psr

10:51 PM

@gnat bofh.ntk.net/BOFH/0000/bastard01.php

andrews.edu/~freeman/bofh/bofh25oct.html

Duga

11:50 PM

FFR this is probably better suited for Programmers.SE. — Qix 1 min ago

user20683

@MichaelT beat me to it :)

Duga

@Qix this is far too old for Programmers.SE migration. It is also far too broad of a question for it to be acceptable on the site now. Please read What goes on Programmers.SE? A guide for Stack Overflow to get a better idea of the expectations for questions on Programmers.SE. — MichaelT 38 secs ago

user55340

@MichaelT this could easily fit under software engineering management and even maybe development methodologies and processes. — Qix 25 secs ago

user55340

Why don't they understand about "too broad" is not a statement about its topicality?

user55340

@WorldEngineer you can have it if you want it now.

user20683

11:55 PM

@MichaelT nah, I'm good

user20683

new Nightwish album... :D

Telastyn

woo nightwish

their new singer is good enough

user20683

@Telastyn she sounds effectively identical to Anette to me

Duga

@Qix I am not saying that it is on or off topic. I am saying that there are too many possible answers to this question and would be considered to be too broad. The question is polling for suggestions of alternate ways to support a developer community. There is no right answer and there are likely hundreds of ways to do this. Having a question get hundreds of answers works against the Stack Exchange Q&A format. As written, this question would get closed as too broad on Programmers.SE. — MichaelT 41 secs ago

user20683

NIGHTWISH - Élan (OFFICIAL VIDEO)

►

user20683

11:59 PM

Any band that can do a Lute breakdown gets my respect, even if they don't have it already

Transcript for