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12:00 AM
 
12:32 AM
@RobertHarvey This just reminds me of a horrible low budget horror movie I watched with a person in a pink rabbit suit going around murdering people all over a city one night
...I've seen an unbelievable number of terrible low budget horror movies on Netflix
 
@JimmyHoffa I saw one with a murderous turkey hand puppet... so terrible... so funny
 
1:24 AM
for every 10 or 15 really bad ones I'll end up stumbling across one like Pontypool which makes it seem like the terrible ones are worth it
 
user55340
2:01 AM
 
2:28 AM
Michael you haven't been here for like
a while
And it's a miracle that Ampt isn't online
 
user20683
Hipster Developer:
 
user20683
 
user20683
room topic changed to The Whiteboard: General discussion for programmers.stackexchange.com [awful-puns] [good-booze] [horror-stories] [monads] [my-code-is-compiling] [parsing-errors] [the-other-monitor]
 
2:45 AM
so TIL that there are features for windows 8.1 pro that windows 8.1 doesn't have
namely Hyper-V
who knew!
also, I learned it costs 99.99 to upgrade to windows 8.1 pro
which may be the biggest load of BS
 
user55340
@Shahar some bad sinus headaches earlier this week. In general though there are a couple things that can distract me from this screen. Home improvements. Full screen games.
 
user55340
0
Q: Trying to make a universe

catersI am wanting to program a universe so that it starts with a big bang and atoms form and then molecules form and stars start to form and planets start to form and then moons around those planets. I have a few questions. If 400 IPMUs(In Program Mass Units) = 1 solar mass than how would I calculat...

 
user55340
o_O
 
user20683
@MichaelT We need to introduce this guy to Dwarf Fortress
 
user20683
the other issue is that planet vs star is not so clear cut as people think
 
user20683
2:50 AM
to the point where scientists aren't even sure where that line is
 
user20683
@Ampt I've minimal Django experience at this time
 
@WorldEngineer I figured it out :) but thanks
 
user20683
Was gonna churn through it this week and next but work has been brutal
 
user20683
and I was also distracted by Zogg from Betelgeuse
 
user20683
Lifted a quarter ton+ and walked probably close to 30 miles in the last two days
 
2:55 AM
It's a lot of fun
All I want to do is run windows phone 8.1 emulators
so that I can play with windows 8
 
user20683
 
4:27 AM
@RobertHarvey yeah, I also notice that they value that, once or twice a day average. When voting down and flagging their "answers" at Programmers and Workplace...
3
A: Why was this answer deleted?

gnatWithout an explanation, this answer ("No!") may become useless in case if someone else posts an opposite opinion. For example, if someone posts a claim like "Yes!", how would this answer help reader to pick of two opposing opinions?

cultural clash

Mar 18 at 18:34, 39 minutes total – 22 messages, 2 users, 0 stars

Bookmarked Mar 19 at 14:28 by gnat

 
 
1 hour later…
5:31 AM
but of course! respectable, intelligent, well meaning visitors coming from hot list = good. Wild, uneducated, angry meta crowd attacking innocent questions = bad. How could it be different — gnat 8 hours ago
 
6:24 AM
A double standard is the application of different sets of principles for similar situations, or by two different people in the same situation. A double standard may take the form of an instance in which certain concepts (often, for example, a word, phrase, social norm, or rule) are perceived as acceptable to be applied by one group of people, but are considered unacceptable—taboo—when applied by another group. The concept of a double standard has long been applied (as early as 1872) to the fact that different moral structures are often applied to men and women in society. A double standard can...
 
 
8 hours later…
2:29 PM
Man, busy day today. I'd say I had a whole 2, maybe even 2 and a half hours of work to do, so I might not be on here as much.
 
@Ampt wow. that'd drive me nuts
 
@enderland You would think so, and then it does.
on the other hand, I've gotten very good at entertaining myself for 12 hours a day
 
3:06 PM
I have 99 problems and I tried to parse them with Regex. Now I have 198 problems.
 
@Ampt just change to base 197, now you only have 10 problems
 
although wouldn't that be 11 problems in base 197?
 
I think 198 in base 198 would just be 0\
I forget all this stuff
10 in base 10 is 10 though
so I think that's right
but 10 in base 9 would be 10 as well
wait wtf
 
198 in base 198 would be some new character you made up to fit in a single spot
lets just call it \
in base 9, 10 would be 11
10 in base 10 is 10, meaning you overflowed one character to the next
 
huh
ahhh, right
 
3:11 PM
Of course, now that you're a mod, anything you say is law, so 10 in base 9 can be 10 if you want.
 
I was thinking an unexpected benefit of being a mod is I can correct my typos in chat more than 2 minutes past
 
@Ampt I think that's only true for Maths mods.
 
@Oded % ?
 
@Oded Yes sir, whatever you say sir.
 
You can imagine what physics mods get up to
 
3:13 PM
@enderland actually that it 10
 
@Ampt you're confusing laws and axioms, @enderland can't do anything with axioms, only laws - so he could say things like it's not against the law to hunt @Ampts
 
@Oded are you trying to say I haven't been losing weight?
@JimmyHoffa You underestimate his powers
 
@Ampt so am I, apparently :-)
@JimmyHoffa only ham.SE mods go after Ampts, they are a rare mutation of amps
I wonder how difficult it would be to overload all math operators to treat numbers in a different base
seems like that could be a great "wtf" code thing for april fools
 
lmao
settle down there satan
 
user41796
@enderland Some languages might let you get away with that. For example, if you tapped into the Roslyn code, you might be able to mess with a .NET language. But I think you would have to tap at the compiler level or VM | RE not at the language level.
 
3:25 PM
problem is that by the time a number gets to the operator it will have been converted to a fixed representation already
 
hmmm. totally random question, do banks hash just your password? is there a reason not to hash your entire log-in credentials?
 
user41796
@enderland If they don't hash your password, find another bank.
 
oh I know
I was talking to a coworker about internet security and made a comment about any place that loses plaintext passwords is #@%#@ing stupid
 
@enderland irresponsible
is the word you're looking for
they probably wouldn't hash your username though
 
@Ampt why not?
 
3:30 PM
@enderland "I forgot my username"
please email it to me
at least my bank (Chase) has that option
 
@Ampt what you mean c5c425389fdf1ad55b2b3d32a32282dc isn't that useful?
 
user41796
@enderland For a financial institution, it's arguably criminally negligent. And I don't toss that phrase out there lightly.
 
@enderland only if you have an option to turn off hashing when I submit my login requeest :P
 
@GlenH7 yeah
 
@enderland you can always look at the set of numerical symbols as a baseless unordered set that's isomorphic with any ordered set where the order represents the base and the base is defined by the definition of the isomorphism... maybe... the function would have to be like a variation of K and succ, the isomorphism would basically be incidental based on both being open sets with identical symbolic relationship but not value relationship... weird
 
user41796
3:38 PM
@JimmyHoffa Too many big words in there. WUT?
2
 
9 secs ago, by GlenH7
@JimmyHoffa Too many big words in there. WUT?
 
22 secs ago, by GlenH7
@JimmyHoffa Too many big words in there. WUT?
I'm convinced he made half of them up on the spot, but I'm too lazy busy to google it and find out.
3
 
user41796
@Ampt You mentioned earlier having a pretty heavy workload today. It's understandable.
 
@GlenH7 someone's gotta troll the interwebs
 
@GlenH7 Yeah, I've told my secretary to cancel all my afternoon meetings, but it looks like I'm still gonna be here well past 3PM
 
user41796
3:43 PM
Woah! Tiger. That's a late day for you.
 
I just hope they remember this when bonus time comes around.
 
heh
 
user41796
@Ampt shouldn't that be "hope they don't"?
 
@enderland my bank doesn't even use a password; instead I have a smartcard and a reader+PIN and I log in using a challenge response scheme
 
@GlenH7 Depends on if we're still pretending that I'm actually busy today.
@ratchetfreak how do you do mobile banking?
 
3:47 PM
@Ampt at Employer^^^ one of the other seniors who would volunteer to help out with sys admin type tasks on projects when necessary and as a side effect ended up picking up permissions here and there around the network from tasks he'd done to help people. One of those permissions made it so he was able to set the senior engineer in his quad nearest to the aisle to have the job title in outlook of his secretary.
 
@JimmyHoffa I've always wondered if I could change other people's job titles in LDAP and active directory explorer...
 
@Ampt a little reader that I slot the card in; I input a challenge from the site, my PIN and I get a response that I enter into the site
 
@enderland yeah, this is what he'd done... was hilarious guy's a senior engineer but his contact card reads "Jon's Secretary"
@ratchetfreak wow, your bank is hardcore. What bank is that? I like this...
 
KBC but nearly all Belgian banks that I saw do this
 
@JimmyHoffa I've thought about changing my own
yeah America is basically in 1990 compared to the rest of the world when it comes to bank/card security
 
user41796
3:50 PM
@enderland That's being rather generous
 
They also upgraded the system to require the amount of your transfer when you sign a wire transfer
 
@ratchetfreak europe picked up smartcards for money years ago... didn't think about the fact that they could tell their customers to use the same smartcard used at their ATMs for banking login
 
I think the original purpose of the smart chip was for electronic "change" called proton which has since been discontinued
 
electronic... change?
what?
 
@Ampt essentially it was supposed to replace cash for small transactions (around €15)
 
4:05 PM
So you would use a different system depending on the amount of money spent?
 
@GlenH7 it's easy, an isomorphism is a one way mapping - that is, once the element is mapped from set A to set B by the function f, there is no function g such that elements in set B can be mapped back to set A
 
same device in stores but it allowed you to get a soda from a vending machine without it being connected to a bank
Proton is an electronic purse application for debit cards in Belgium. The system was introduced in February 1995 with the goal to replace cash primarily for small transactions around € 15. For security, the card is limited to storing 125.00 EUR of available electronic cash (originally 5,000 BEF). The card is used for small payments without a pin code or signature, and runs the same risk as with ordinary cash in that if the card is lost the cash value allocated to the card is also lost. The advantage to merchants is that they can accept payments without the necessity for a bank terminal to b...
 
user41796
@ratchetfreak smartphone NFC is attempting to do the same thing.
 
user41796
@JimmyHoffa That actually does help make it make more sense.
 
@JimmyHoffa I thought isomorphism was reversible?
 
4:11 PM
@ratchetfreak I am shit at remembering - I thought homomorphism is both ways, isomorphism is out and endomorphism is maintains relationships found in the source set also in the target set
 
Windows 9 will support virtual desktops?????? #Magical
 
or maybe endomorphism is just maps into it's own set.. whatever...
 
user41796
@Ampt They'll promise anything in order to keep people interested in the platform.
 
4:14 PM
@ratchetfreak Yeah, I have iso and homo backwards... I have to look these back up every so often because they keep falling out of my head. Makes sense why homomorphism is used so generally when it's the least restrained form of relationship
 
user41796
Dumb question - does PHP support classes?
 
at least they know metro sucks
 
@GlenH7 You think Windows is losing it's grip?
 
@GlenH7 it does java style
 
user41796
@ratchetfreak TY. Was about to answer a question where the basis of my answer is predicated on that.
 
user41796
4:15 PM
@Ampt I think you have the wrong verb tense there.
 
^well it was based on java but horribly ****ed
 
@ratchetfreak zahhh??? :P It's awesome for mobile, admittedly shit for desktop though. The UI concept though fits the touch experience so much better than the android or apple approaches I've seen...
 
but I'm a desktop user and as such metro sucks
 
@ratchetfreak yes for desktop it does
@GlenH7 s/isomorphism/homomorphism/g
 
@GlenH7 really? How do you figure?
 
4:17 PM
probably the best precedent for future design meetings "no don't make mobile and desktop experience the same, remember windows 8!!"
 
@Ampt he's just saying you need to relax, you're too tense, go have a PBR and enjoy your Friday.
 
@JimmyHoffa it's thursday, and I'm genuinly curious. This is the first I've heard of Windows being in jeopardy?
 
@ratchetfreak haha yeah, it's true metro on the desktop is pryor case law for why people shouldn't make touch and non-touch experiences the same
@Ampt Friday is a state of mind man, that's it, just ride the stimutacs
 
@JimmyHoffa Whatever Walter
 
user41796
@Ampt Oh, it's not in jeopardy. But Win 8 adoption will follow the same pattern that Vista did.
 
4:21 PM
@GlenH7 does it stand to reason that 9 will follow 7's adoption rate then?
 
user41796
They seriously, seriously screwed up trying to create one UI to serve both mobile and desktop. Horrific decision.
 
@Ampt win7 holding out until win9 has been there for a year or 2?
 
user41796
@Ampt Only if they do with 9 what they did with 7. Namely, learn from the horrific mistakes of the previous version.
 
I'll give you that they fumbled with Metro UI, but otherwise the OS is fantastic
 
user41796
And truth be told, they have given many signals indicating they understand they messed up with 8.
 
4:22 PM
@GlenH7 they have a start menu again, no charms bar for one
 
user41796
But it remains to be seen if they'll pull a save with 9 or not.
 
I think they'll be just fine
you probably that Vista was gonna kill them too didn't you :P
 
it'll follow the pattern of good-version/bad-version/good-version/bad-version they have established
 
user41796
@Ampt My experience with 8.1 would keep me from calling it "fantastic." It's okay. And they fixed a lot of issues in 8.
 
user41796
@Ampt No, they are too entrenched for that too happen. But if you look at sales and adoption rates, it's clear that Vista was DOA. Win8 has been DOA. It remains to be seen if Win8.1 will be salvageable.
 
user41796
4:24 PM
Surface (both RT and Pro) have been DOA.
 
@GlenH7 DOA?
 
@GlenH7 I'm not convinced... I think it might genuinely be in jeopardy. Things like windows vs. mac vs. ... are so entwined in culture because like cars these are important tools a vast portion of society uses every day, and like cars the choices people make are as much an affect of the current social culture (SUV's in the 00's cultural rule: They should be large as an inverse proportion to a person's size)
 
user41796
They've got enough in the bank to weather a protracted storm, but they can't keep steering straight into the sinkholes.
 
user41796
@ratchetfreak Dead on Arrival - generally a medical term used by hospitals. "The patient was DOA"
 
It seems as of recent years Apple Laptops are what much of modern society has settled on as being the de factor non-mobile computer
 
4:27 PM
@JimmyHoffa if MS has one thing going for it, it's that buying a Mac means paying a serious premium
 
@Ampt not true
 
user41796
Premium, yes. Serious premium, no.
 
what MS has going for them is that buying a Mac means your entire office will be a pain to operate unless it's all Mac. Thus most businesses continue to be MS
 
@JimmyHoffa $1000 dollars is a large budget for a laptop for a lot of people
 
@Ampt more like you are stuck wit the hardware you get (no or limited upgrades)
 
4:28 PM
@Ampt people don't know that anything can be cheaper other than technically savvy folk
 
user41796
@JimmyHoffa Google and a few others are putting together sysad tools that might turn the tide on that one.
 
for Software developers, sure, we can spend 2.5k+ and not blink, but we are not the typical use case
 
@GlenH7 wouldn't be surprised. There is a lot of infiltration in offices by mac these days
 
I'll eat my sock if MS topples in the next 5 years :P
 
@Ampt bull. We can spent $400 and make the machine go because we know how to pick components and configure our machines. Average computer folk don't know how to do that so they pay the sticker price that everyone tells them (My sister in law a couple years ago started going back to school and needed a laptop - everyone told her to budget at least $1500 - I bought her a laptop for $500, she would have had no idea that was an option)
@Ampt NO WAY
 
user41796
4:30 PM
I think MS is too entrenched in the business world to be toppled. But I think we'll continue to see fragmentation within the market as far as what devices are actually purchased.
 
@Ampt I think they're in jeopardy of becoming mac ca. '00 when you're talking about people's home desktops. They'll never get out of offices with any significance though. And that aside: MS always sits on a huge warchest.
 
user41796
PC sales rates have flattened from their decline. Tablet sales have flattened from their climb. So the rebalancing that should have occurred eons ago has finally taken place.
 
they won't topple simply because they have so much more money in the bank at any given time than people outside of MS realize
 
user41796
Folk don't need a full computer to surf the web and write mail.
 
user41796
But business folk need real systems that can do things beyond just surfing and emailing.
 
4:37 PM
^-- 2013 annual financial report says they have 77 billion in cash on hand
 
we'd need to see an uprising in a new systems before either mac or windows topples
 
^-- MS 2013 financials
They have enough money on hand to buy themselves private anytime
that's kind of crazy for a company traded so much as them
 
yeah, but any attempt to do so would instantly skyrocket their stocks
 
psr
I think apple has about 160 billiion cash on hand.
 
Sounds about right
 
4:48 PM
@Ampt well, buying private is only done at market price if a business is trying to liquidate as a kindness to their shareholders. Usually buying private is an offering made to the shareholders at an above-market rate
it's not like they buy the shares one by one, they make a proposal to all shareholders as a buyout offering, the shareholders don't negotiate, they vote their proxy
 
oooh. I kept my headphones next to my laptops exhaust while I ate lunch and now they're nice and warm. I should do this every day
 
@Ampt ah the simple joys of life...
 
psr
@Ampt You could do the same with your lunch. As the mongol warriors in Genghis Khan's horde cooked their meat by strapping it to their horse's flank, so you could ride your laptop to your battles of consultancy.
 
@Ampt is it like a koala bear crapped a rainbow in your brain?
 
@JimmyHoffa Yes. It's quite nice coming from an office that while not downright cold, can be a tad chilly
@psr You know, I've got two of them here... I could stack them and cook a panini between them!
 
4:53 PM
@Ampt the second half of every day here I'm wearing a hoodie and fingerless gloves because of our overzealous AC...
 
@JimmyHoffa you should try this. I have big over the ear ones. not sure the effect with earbuds would be as nice
Now I'm thinking that I could probably put together some sort of air conditioning system to re-use the heat the laptops generate
use a few 120mm fans and some plastic tubing.... yes, I think that could work
 
psr
@Ampt Brilliant - you could start selling panini in the office to demonstrate your entrepreneurial mindset.
 
@psr That would be an interesting business design. Instead of pizza ovens or toasters, you use server racks!
 
user41796
5:12 PM
@Ampt You'd be better off trying to slow roast something else. Pulled pork or brisket might be viable choices.
 
If I run them at 95C I could probably do a roast, it would just take quite a while
 
user41796
And speaking of slow cooking, I have a new toy that I want. traegergrills.com
 
so it uses woodchips... and it's better than charcoal and propane?
 
user41796
@Ampt You can run the roaster cooler than that. 175F is acceptable. You just need to up the time.
 
user41796
@Ampt So I've been told by the folk that have them. The real advantage is not having to futz with it over a 12 hour slow cook session.
 
psr
5:17 PM
@GlenH7 No wonder data centers are so concerned about up time.
 
user41796
Only complaint I've heard about the Traeger is it doesn't impart as much of a smokey flavor as some folk like. But I'm wondering if additional wood chips could be added to help fix that.
 
Interesting design
@GlenH7 if the design pic is to be believed, it looks like anything small enough to fit in the augur is good to go
 
user41796
yeah, I think you're right on that one. I'm still reading to see how much smoldering takes place within the firepot.
 
user41796
But it seems like it's a wood fired convection oven.
 
Also, quit tempting me. I have student loans due tomorrow
 
user41796
5:25 PM
If it helps dissuade you, they're not exactly cheap.
 
slowly puts wallet away
 
user41796
The trick is to wait for the once a year costco event and pick it up from there. Usually happens late July / early August. So you've got some time to save up.
 
user41796
And they already offer different types of wood for their pellets including apple, pecan, and mesquite.
 
I also have no place to put a grill. Consider me safe
 
user41796
@Ampt You'll have a house in no time at all. And they've got a portable unit small enough to fit on a patio...
 
5:37 PM
Haha I haven't even started saving for a house yet
 
user41796
@Ampt Just wait until you find a gig paying OT
 
@GlenH7 I have a dream...
 
user41796
of a non-zero utilization rate?
 
@GlenH7 that's a part of it haha
really my goal right now is to get out of debt
 
user41796
admirable goal
 
5:46 PM
haha man that makes it sound like it's not gonna happen
 
@GlenH7 you mean they're exactly not cheap
 
@JimmyHoffa but it's got an electronic augur!
 
@Ampt fuck all this shit do what I did -> buy block and a shovel, dig a shallow ring and make sure there's slight gaps between the blocks for air flow into the fire pit. Cheap.
 
user41796
@JimmyHoffa The advantage of their approach is you can have 12 - 16 hour slow roasts with minimal to no involvement on your part.
 
user41796
So that Thanksgiving brisket (or turkey) just got a lot easier to slow roast.
 
user41796
5:50 PM
OTOH, I'm not convinced I couldn't do the same with a convection oven in the house.
 
user41796
@JimmyHoffa FTFY.
 
Better.
 
or, you could buy an augur and make a controller for it.... hmmm
 
user41796
Or ribs. Ribs done right, take hours to slow cook. Why should I have to futz with the cooking gear the whole time?
 
@Ampt they have temperature sensor driven augur so as the heat rises it stops fueling and as it lowers it adds more fuel
 
user41796
5:52 PM
@Ampt high temp thermocouples are easily acquired, that's a good point.
 
@JimmyHoffa cuz temperature sensors are hard
 
@GlenH7 ribs are a common occurrence at my house ever since I found the cooking for engineers recipe...did these last xmas, 4 hours in the oven
@Ampt not saying that, was just dictating the requirement
you could do it with an rPi easy - just make sure you use appropriate wiring that won't melt from proximity and make the wiring long enough that the rPi can sit well away from the cooking area
 
@JimmyHoffa looks like they have theirs under the hopper, off to the side of the fire
 
I know oven's not right for ribs from purists. This is me caring when it's delicious and falls off the bone. Usually I toss them over my coal grill for 15-20 minutes after pulling out
 
user41796
@Ampt I'm assuming you're joking on that one, right? I thought putting a thermocouple in a wheatstone bridge was fairly trivial and gave a stable signal.
 
5:55 PM
@GlenH7 that is 110% sarcasm
 
user41796
Thanks! Wasn't certain if you had run across some case in your previous gig that I wasn't aware of.
 
@Ampt to be fair you already probably have the necessary skills from doing python to hardware communication with that CAN shit, rPi running python and you could probably figure out the communication with a temperature sensor
not to mention there's numerous tutorials online for coding stuff to meddle with sensors from an rPi
 
I'd probably use an arduino honestly
 
user41796
@JimmyHoffa It's just an analog signal, and when you throw it in a wheatstone bridge it becomes a change in resistivity.
 
user41796
@Ampt because arduinos use the one true language.
 
5:56 PM
only thing about hardwiring it is that it would be harder to configure it
@GlenH7 because doing A2D and PWM is easier that way, yeah :P
 
@GlenH7 the analog signaling of a thermocouple I would suspect to be a touch different from the signalling you'd get out of a temperature sensor
 
user41796
@Ampt chip based A2D FTW!
 
user41796
A Wheatstone bridge is an electrical circuit used to measure an unknown electrical resistance by balancing two legs of a bridge circuit, one leg of which includes the unknown component. Its operation is similar to the original potentiometer. It was invented by Samuel Hunter Christie in 1833 and improved and popularized by Sir Charles Wheatstone in 1843. One of the Wheatstone bridge's initial uses was for the purpose of soils analysis and comparison. == Operation == In the figure, is the unknown resistance to be measured; , and are resistors of known resistance and the resistance of is...
 
@Ampt hardwiring? just make an attachment for your heat sensor
 
user41796
Replace R2 with the thermocouple.
 
5:58 PM
@GlenH7 I've no idea what a wheatstone is
 
@JimmyHoffa you use it to make wheat. duh.
 
user41796
@Ampt I thought it was a bridge made of wheat and stone. My bad.
 
I'm glad I don't have to care about that stuff anymore
 

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