The Whiteboard

user41796

8:00 PM

They also try to make the equipment as easy to use as possible - the less thinking required the better.

Ampt

I like the salt shakers that only pour out the absolute correct amount of salt

user55340

They've got that for ketchup and mustard too.

user55340

Taco Bell has a bunch of specialized tools too.

user41796

@Ampt Didn't always used to be that way - then they got too many complaints about some stores having super salty fries and others having none.

Ampt

0

Q: What should my RESTful API method look like for a Roulette game?

I'm building a roulette game for fun, and the game will use a RESTful API. I'm building out the functionality for spinning the roulette wheel. I'm using MongoDB and have a collection for players _id username balance games _id game_name last_bet_at created_at last_logged_in_at cr...

CR?

user55340

8:02 PM

user41796

@Ampt Not sure; they don't like design review questions.

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT blasphemer that is WAYY too much ketchup....

Ampt

off by 1 error

user55340

@JimmyHoffa Its the same amount is key.

Ampt

unless she told him to write it 499 times

user41796

8:03 PM

@JimmyHoffa No, it is exactly the right amount

user55340

Starts at 1, less than or equal to 500.

user55340

A C programmer would have done count = 0; count < 500; count++... but most cartoon readers aren't C programmers.

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 gah! You should be barred from Wisconsin on this statement alone!

user55340

@JimmyHoffa Ampt is an illini. He has no sway here anymore.

user41796

@JimmyHoffa Oh, you betcha. Up there they substitute the same amount of butter for the ketchup

Jimmy Hoffa

8:05 PM

@MichaelT most programmers would...wouldn't they? (is any languages culture consistently write their for loops with a 1 index and <= ?

user55340

@JimmyHoffa pascal. Possibly python / perl.

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 they're a proper mustard and onions state

user55340

Wisconsin even has the mustard museum. mustardmuseum.com

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT oh because of 1 indexed arrays..I guess that makes sense...

user41796

@MichaelT - watching that documentary now. They mentioned how wait time is directly tied to market share. Sooooo true. There are certain chains I refuse to go to unless I know we're planning to go inside and eat.

user55340

8:06 PM

@JimmyHoffa pascal is arbitrary indexed... you can start at -3 if you wanted to.

Ampt

@MichaelT Gross.... It's true twice

@MichaelT It's just my job, 5 days a week

user55340

Perl and Python have a range operator and one might write foreach $i (1 .. 500) in perl.

user41796

Sweet! I got the first VTD in

Ampt

really I live in WI

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT oh yeah, I recall this...

user55340

8:10 PM

var
  i: Integer;
  b: array [50..100] of Integer;
  c: array[-10..10] of Integer;
begin
  for i := 50 to 100 do b[i] := i * i;

  // Note negative starting index above in declaration
  for i := -10 to 10 do c[i] := i * i;

user55340

And also, strings in pascal are 1 based indexing rather than 0 based... though this might also be a side effect of the way pascal strings were built.

user55340

But then again, it's a pedagogical language rather than a systems language, so 1 indexing might make some sense there too.

amon

@MichaelT Python is slightly different. In range(start, end), the start is inclusive but end is exclusive. See also EWD 831 for some discussion on why this might be a good idea (e.g.: end - start is the length of the sequence generated). Interestingly, Perl6 gives up trying to do the “right” thing, and allows you to choose from the four exquisitely crafted range operators .. ^.. ..^ ^..^ where ^ marks which end is exclusive

user55340

@amon I indeed agree with EWD about 0 based indexing being better.

user55340

And I do like the perl6 range operator.

enderland

8:21 PM

I can't tell if this is a crappy job or not -

user55340

Nothing in the description suggests one way or another. Key would be looking at the company itself and its processes and practices.

enderland

I can't quite figure out if that'd be a "legit job" or a BS-y type thing

user55340

That would be the other half of the interview process... finding about the company.

enderland

yeah, it actually looks pretty similar to what I want to do, I think

or at least like doing

amon

@MichaelT Nah, the Perl6 operators tend to be insane. @zz Z..^ @zz«+»5 is legal code (but I have no idea what it does). While the range operators at least use a clear convention, they're highly non-orthogonal. TIMTOWDY only goes so far.

user55340

8:29 PM

Let me rephrase it... ".. ^.. ..^ ^..^" makes sense.

amon

They do make sense, in a “one more operator won't make any difference by now”-way.

Anyway, does anyone have career or education advice for a new CS student? Lectures started last week :)

user41796

take lots of notes? Study hard? Try to enjoy the process?

user41796

Sorry, VTC as too broad... :-)

user41796

If you could [edit] your question and refine the scope of your question, we might be able to help.

amon

Yeah, sure: “What was/is your favourite thing from studying CS or any related subject?” – there, better? I made the poll a bit broader, so now you can answer even if you can't give any advice. :P

Ampt

8:43 PM

Ugh I hate SQL

can someone download their SQL knowledge into my brain?

please?

user41796

@amon I think if I were to redo things, I would have done a lot more one-off throw-away projects.

user41796

But I don't remember having a lot of down time during my studies

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ampt it was painful over the course of several years, pretty sure all of that in a single shot would kill a person...there's a reason DBA's where those robes, it's to cover the bruising all over their skull

Ampt

Also: Shameless advertising for my new favorite tool (a la @MichaelT) Royal TS

amon

@GlenH7 That's a good one. Remembered as “GlenH7's rule: Build one to throw away – while it's still cheap to do so.”

Ampt

8:48 PM

Great alternative to having a billion Putty windows open

I love how it manages all your connections, has plenty of skins, and is just all around great

user41796

@amon There's also a lot more connections and willingness to try something completely new without worrying about if it will pay off or not

enderland

@Ampt how much do you need hah

Ampt

@JimmyHoffa Ugh anything is better than this.

sooo many

enderland

nulls as primary key? wat

Ampt

sorry, Unique Key, not primary

So I can't just fix it by putting something in, because theres a duplicate that's actually correct in the DB

so I figure well, I'll delete this row since it's clearly a messed up dupe

but wait, it's referenced in another table by a foreign key!

oh look, that row is mostly null too!

user55340

8:52 PM

(whee, kicking my laptop back into runnable situation)

user55340

@amon I liked compilers and computer science most.

user55340

@Amon One thing I would toss in there is: take an intro to business class, philosophy, and english writing. Those are things that CS types frequently forget about which become very useful later on.

user55340

Business is something that is much more prevalent now with lots of independent contractors... which you might find yourself at some time. It also helps in understanding the business side your boss is working from and being able to make arguments (the philosophy class).

user41796

I would focus on business writing as opposed to general composition. They are definitely different subjects

user55340

English writing class - or something that makes use of term papers and essays is useful for communicating via email and documentation / proposals.

user55340

8:58 PM

Its those things that can set you apart in the interview... and certainly help with the advancement once you've got the job.

user55340

It also becomes helpful if you burn out as a programmer and find yourself a manager or product owner to be able to work effectively in their realms.

amon

@MichaelT I like them too, which is why I picked an institution that offers a more … practical approach (more like a polytechnic). I'll follow my compilers interest anyway. Interestingly, the program includes mandatory business and English courses.

user55340

Good... back when I was in CS, it was still very much a science realm rather than the more vocational world of today.

user55340

Having those "corporate life skills" classes will help.

user55340

I'm surprised @YannisRizos didn't kill programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/127170 (10k link) earlier given his love of Haskell and showing up in the close list (as a not mod at the time).

enderland

9:06 PM

It might fall as a "technical writing" class

user20683

So, I might be plotting to go to grad school for software engineering

user41796

@WorldEngineer They've finally lured you in?

user55340

@GlenH7 its one way to put off looking for a job.

user20683

@MichaelT or one way to find a job :P

user55340

@RobertHarvey have you considered grad school?

user20683

9:09 PM

if one's thesis has to do with methods on predicting project failure from the code itself

user55340

@WorldEngineer Its a different direction in the computer programming world than a bachelors degree.

user41796

@WorldEngineer There's a lot to be said for being able to use the campus recruiting office as a spring-board for your first professional job in your field of study.

user20683

or something along those lines

user41796

@WorldEngineer I want to say the Death March books were backed by research and not just anecdotal evidence. So that may be workable.

user41796

Can't. pin. [removed). messages!

user41796

9:12 PM

@WorldEngineer - tbt, not necessarily a bad idea. There's a lot of dev industry up that way.

user55340

@WorldEngineer You could always go for a masters in culinary arts too while you're at it. Masterful cupcakes.

user41796

^^^ Bam! This must happen!

user41796

And I'm still hoping to make a batch in December. I'll share any tips I come up with to make them better.

user55340

Ok... so after goofing off for much of the day... its really time to write that 'homework' assignment for the interview.

user55340

> Using an open source web framework of your choice (other than java), ...

user41796

9:18 PM

Are you going to crowdsource your homework and post it on Main? :-P

user55340

A fair bit of yesterday evening was trying to figure one out. Awkward when you've been Spring / Stripes / Struts in Java for the past 5 years...

user55340

@GlenH7 Nope... and while there's no NDA on this, I'm still not going to post the full requirements for it.

user41796

@MichaelT Sheesh! Why you gotta go and act all professional like?

user41796

You know we'd make an exception for your case....

user55340

@GlenH7 I could always post it on CodeReview... (nope... not doing that either).

user55340

9:23 PM

Ok... last bit of goofing off... regions grouped by most frequent 'missed connections' location in cragislist:

user55340

user41796

missed connections ... meaning?

Ampt

Saw someone

and now you miss them

user55340

Btw, note the correlation in Wisconsin and ND to:

user55340

user41796

9:24 PM

Oh jeez....

Ampt

I'm sorry my brain is fried and now I'm just laughing so hard

@MichaelT What is this, an image for ants?

user55340

@GlenH7 "I saw you at the ${location} and thought you were hot. You were wearing ${clothes}. message me back if you're available."

user41796

I'm gonna go cry for a bit now about the state of our society....

user55340

9:27 PM

(From funniest missed connections)

user41796

k, it's hard to read through the tears. After those last ones, I'm not sure if it's from weeping or laughter.

user55340

@GlenH7 craigslist.org/about/best/den/235728006.html

user55340

(and after reading that, I doubt @JimmyHoffa will go to the water park again...)

Ampt

Holy crap I just re-taught myself SQL and simultaneously fixed an 800MB SQL dump file. I'm going home.

2

user55340

@GlenH7 craigslist.org/about/best/all/mis

user41796

9:29 PM

apropos of nothing; I just noticed the tempo shift in Crystal Method's Keep Hope Alive. I've listened to the song tons of times and never noticed it before.

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ampt haha... joys... Take heart: This is the type of scenario where you learn to do colorful and interesting things with SQL and data, being comfortable in a SQL database is a skill that will be valuable through the entire course of your career.

@MichaelT At Home!?!? Ohio? Indiana? I am so sorry... There are no words

That RoyalTS looks awesome, though wish it were free, I use Remote Desktop Connection Manager for MS remote desktop management for free... I have way more than the free 10 in it unfortunately. I might see if RoyalTS is worth asking for a PO here though because we do a lot of devops on my team...

Robert Harvey

9:46 PM

@MichaelT I have an MBA. Does that count?

Ampt

@JimmyHoffa It is free!

user55340

@RobertHarvey Well... maybe.

Ampt

There's an unlimited demo

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ampt shareware allows 10 connections

Ampt

Yeah, which is quite a lot

Jimmy Hoffa

9:47 PM

I have ~50-75? in my remote desktop connection manager

Ampt

Ah, well at least give it a shot

then convince your teammates to do so

Jimmy Hoffa

I will, not like it costs me money, I can talk to my team about it and request a PO anytime I find a tool that'll help us

Robert Harvey

The wife wants me to get a PhD. Not sure what I'd even do with that.

user55340

@RobertHarvey retire.

user41796

@RobertHarvey what field? And do you want to go into academia or a R&D only shop?

Jimmy Hoffa

9:49 PM

@RobertHarvey you have an MBA, you don't need anything more; you're fully qualified to be an asshole and make a bunch of money for doing nothing already!

Ampt

Then sink your teeth into the CFO! MWAHAHAHAHA

Jimmy Hoffa

(did I say I hate people with MBAs?)

user55340

There are some rather interesting R&D areas that a PhD in CS can lead... if you want to do that.

user41796

@JimmyHoffa yes, yes, but Robert's different.

Ampt

@RobertHarvey Correct people when they forget to address you as Dr Harvey?

Jimmy Hoffa

9:50 PM

@GlenH7 I would have said so before I heard he's a member of the Moneyed Bastards Association!

user55340

You could change your login on SO to Dr.RobertHarvey♦

user41796

@JimmyHoffa quit being a curmudgeon already....

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 aye, I kid- speaking of @RobertHarvey I wanted to give you a link the other day

Ampt

www.why-phds-are-jerks.com

found it for you

Robert Harvey

Whoa.

user41796

9:52 PM

@RobertHarvey - Every now and then I've toyed with getting mine - and I was once on a phd track. I'm pretty content not having it and I think that having it would have closed more doors than it opened for me as far as a career is concerned

Robert Harvey

I leave for two minutes, and this is what happens.

user55340

9

Q: Why the programmer with Ph.D is a bad candidate for the employer?

I have found this comic pic on Steve Hanov's blog: The most of the points are true obviously. What I can't comprehend is, why having Ph.D is considered as a "bad thing"? Any thoughts?

education job-market resume phd

Jimmy Hoffa

@RobertHarvey seeing as that crockford discussion actually made sense to you; I was thinking perhaps good video lectures like that are a way you grok stuff better, and here's the best thing I ever sawed about the actor model; I can't stand lectures or video lectures but even I was able to follow along here: channel9.msdn.com/Shows/Going+Deep/…

user41796

@RobertHarvey still, it's better than him spouting off about monads.

2

Ampt

@RobertHarvey You mentioned the scary P word.

Jimmy Hoffa

9:53 PM

it's a fun lighthearted conversational video between Carl Hewitt ("invented" the actor model) and Erik Meijer (gave us LINQ) describing very simply the Actor model

Robert Harvey

Ah, those guys are cool.

Eric Meijer has a way of explaining things that seeps into your consciousness.

Jimmy Hoffa

@RobertHarvey aye. Good video, worth a watch when you have some time

@RobertHarvey yes, he is very good in that regard; it's an aspect of all those MSR guys, Lippert, SPJ, et al..

(maybe they had great teachers and became great teachers by side effect? having great teachers would explain how they became so unbelievably smart...)

user20683

10:43 PM

I have returned

user20683

stuffed to the busting with Indian food

user55340

12

A: Can I prevent a floating div from wrapping when it's resized?

The asker provided this answer to their own question, but it was link-only and was therefore removed. For posterity, here it is again, but with the code brought inline. var i = 1; $('#a').click(function() { if (i === 0) { $('#tC').animate({ width: "0", }, 1500 ); $(...

user55340

Thats one where I bet the OP wished he had actually properly done a proper self answered question.

user55340

(its community wiki)

Robert Harvey

11:41 PM

Do we still do Interview questions on Programmers?

user55340

@RobertHarvey If its a good question, it doesn't matter if its an interview question. If its a bad question, its a bad question no matter where its from.

user55340

Often the interview questions are designed for a series of followup questions starting with something that is quite broad. This leads to the problem that interview questions often have when asked here.

Jimmy Hoffa

@RobertHarvey I wish, at least 3 quarters of the people who would answer a question on Programmers I would be more than happy to be hiring, but alas I think interviewing through P.SE might be outside of the site charter...

user55340

I had an interview question once that was "How would you design a system to control the payment and gate at a parking lot?"

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT "How? With a handaxe. Next question?"

user55340

11:46 PM

13

Q: Why do interview questions make poor Programmers.SE questions?

Occasionally a question that is asked at an interview comes up - "how would you design Amazon Web Services" or "how would you write Google" or some such question. These questions find their way to Programmers.StackExchange in hopes of getting an answer for the next time they are asked on an inte...

discussion close-reasons questions faq-proposed

user55340

@JimmyHoffa It was an interesting question. Went on to "ok, there are two parking lots now. What changes?" and "the second parking lot has intermittent network connectivity." and "how would a reservation system fit into this? What would need to change?"

user15026

11:59 PM

Stuff like that hurts my brain

user15026

I don't even know how you guys break that stuff down. You must be magicians

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT well the AbstractParkingLotFactoryManager will have to change which will cause cascading changes in your IParkingLot interface, all of it's implementations constructors, and your AbstractFactoryFactory implementation to generate the AbstractParkingLotFactoryManager's new IPC and redundancy facilities and your IManager and IAbstractFactoryManager's interfaces, along with all code that uses any of those interfaces...

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