The Whiteboard

user55340

8:01 PM

@JimmyHoffa How do you program on a boat?

@MichaelT With his flippy floppies, duh

user55340

@Ampt 13 vs troll... Hanlon's Razor suggests never attribute to malice that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.

Ampt

no 13 year old is this dedicated

smells like a catfish to me

user20683

15

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT True story: Old colleague once told me of his aunt who used to work on stock exchange software during the 70's, in the 80's she bought a house boat with a satellite and used a teletype to send code patches being continuously employed while travelling the world because she knew code in the absolute bowels of systems that were unbelievably necessary

user20683

8:04 PM

He's not 13 anymore

user20683

he can't be

user55340

someteen. five or three... development isn't too significantly different. Well, it is... but really, until you get in the 20s, the brain isn't making the best decisions.

user55340

The papers (just googled) tend to suggest that they (teenagers) miscalculate the benefits of various actions.

Ampt

@JimmyHoffa house boat? Why not just get a giant yacht instead

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ampt Isn't that the same thing?

Ampt

8:11 PM

(My perception of what you mean when you say house boat may vary)

Jimmy Hoffa

What the hell do I know about boats, I live in a desert

Ampt

thats what I think you mean when you say house boat

user55340

Hmm... do hats show up in the profile link?

user55340

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ampt wow, that is not what I think...

Ampt

8:12 PM

now when you say yacht...

user55340

Best hat ever.

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ampt I thought that was a cruiseliner...

user55340

Saucilito CA has lots of house boats...

user55340

Ampt

user55340

8:13 PM

Has to do with property tax > berth rental.

Ampt

nope. you can own one of these

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ampt Well of course you can own a cruiseliner

they aren't the oceans property

Ampt

these are tiny as compared to cruise liner

user55340

Ampt

cruise liner

Jimmy Hoffa

8:14 PM

@Ampt Yeah but still, that thing is huge

user55340

House... boat?

user55340

Ampt

@JimmyHoffa well you have to live on it

user55340

@Ampt btw, did you get around to watching Carrier?

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ampt dude you could fit several tribes on that thing and they'd have room for demilitarized borders left over

Ampt

8:15 PM

@MichaelT no, but it's on the list

user55340

All houseboats:

user55340

Ampt

@JimmyHoffa but then where do you fit the ballroom?

Jimmy Hoffa

That's my mental image of a house boat

Ampt

that's a small yacht

ITT: Jimmy Hoffa shows that he lives in a desert

Jimmy Hoffa

8:16 PM

yours is like a city boat not a house boat

user55340

Then you get the British canal boats...

user55340

Ampt

I get it! There aren't any british canal boats!

enderland

@MichaelT hahaha. don't get me started. lol! :)

user55340

(there was a square bracket in the path that the parser didn't like)

Jimmy Hoffa

8:17 PM

@MichaelT Isn't that technically just a well-sealed mobile home?

user55340

@JimmyHoffa Bit smaller.

user55340

You also get the crazy people who customize it...

user55340

Ampt

wait, you can move that thing? the first one (green) looks pretty well stuck

user55340

Layout:

user55340

8:19 PM

user55340

@Ampt Its waiting at a lock. They need to be that narrow to fit through the canals.

enderland

where's the torpedo tubes

Jimmy Hoffa

@enderland True, no boat is complete without a tube you can launch things from, even if you're just launching submarine sandwiches (properly saran wrapped from environment of course) or cans of old milwaukee with a pinball-spring lever

enderland

@JimmyHoffa apparently a some battleships used to have torpedo tubes underwater

Jimmy Hoffa

I assume this is why sub sandwiches were originally invented, explains the name

Ampt

8:23 PM

@JimmyHoffa couldn't be the fact that they look like a sub could it...

Jimmy Hoffa

@enderland Of course, where else are they going to launch food to your divers from? Above water?

@Ampt Of course not, they were invented long before submarines

enderland

@Ampt never

user55340

@JimmyHoffa They were invented back in ancient Greece... thus the name "Hero" Its what Hercules ate while doing his 12 labors.

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT Nope, they were invented as a sandwich to be placed sub-marine, for eating when laboring during swimming or diving activities

user55340

0

Q: Learning Scala, which tutorial to start with?

I used Java long time ago and don't remember the details. I know basics of functional programming (I read Haskell tutorial). From which tutorial to start learning Scala? "A Scala Tutorial for Java Programmers" or "A Tour of Scala"?

user55340

8:25 PM

I like the "I read Haskell tutorial"

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT o yeh, I red haskell tutorial too, so I'm good at java, what's the scala tutorial?

side note - Well known old store in Denver is called Black and Read - pronounced red as in past tense, sells used records and books originally, the records part has evolved to my understanding

user55340

Database records?

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT I suppose you could insert the data from one into a database

user55340

@Ampt you need close votes. And just think of the fun if you get vote to delete before @JimmyHoffa

Ampt

lol, the hats don't scale when you post a bunch of messages and your gravatar gets bigger

look at jimmys multi line above

and refreshing fixes it... odd

user55340

8:31 PM

Scales for me when you did that multi line.

Ampt

huh.... jimmies was definitely not scaling, then I refreshed and it fixed itself

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ampt It's ok, we know you're new to these computer things, it takes a few years...

Ampt

working as intended wooooo

enderland

mine's better anyways ;-)

user55340

@FrostEngineer consider grabbing the link from my comment on scala and updating your comment... I can't flag my comment, and I've upvoted yours, so I can't flag that one either.

user55340

8:41 PM

Any RESTing Phphites that want to take a crack at

user55340

0

Q: Effective way for storing and retrieving common data across websites

The organization in which I am currently working manages several websites (50+). Redundant data is found in many of the websites. For example, a data about fees is displayed in many web pages. Every time a change in fees is made, we currently have to manually edit the data in each of the pages. I...

architecture api-design

Ampt

8:53 PM

ugh floats, doubles, uint32's oh my

Chad

in The Axon Terminal, 54 mins ago, by Josh Gitlin

@Chad I think it might be on topic, yeah. We can see what the rest of our communty thinks

For that interview question that you guys asked about

Ampt

you guys want that?

Chad

That was from Cog Sci

user55340

you guys really want that?

user55340

Ahh, ok... I'll take it down a notch then...

user55340

8:55 PM

those guys really want that?

Ampt

@MichaelT shhhh, they're gonna take it

(Let me handle this)

@Chad I'm not sure if we're willing to part with it... it's just... such a good question. I mean for the right price...

user55340

@Chad we wouldn't let it go without giving them something else in trade... how about a hipster slacker? They can have @Ampt too....

Ampt

@MichaelT That's Mr. Hipster-Slacker-Snowplow-Maker to you!

user55340

Btw, we threatened getting the nordic car plow and strapping it on to our CEO's car.

Ampt

Hahahahaha finally gunning for that raise I see

@Chad do we have a deal then? You get the question and we each get $10,000 is small, unmarked, non-sequential US Dollars?

user55340

9:00 PM

@Ampt The owner's father (small company) is the guy who currently plows the parking lot (proper big truck with proper big truck plow on it). He was rolling in laughter when he saw the video. Especially the one with the convertable.

Ampt

Next thing you know I'll have a salt spreader on the back

Chad

@Ampt I prefer to deal in Equidorean Guineas....

Ampt

@Chad Fine, but we want the going exchange rate.

Chad

Though what you are going to do with that many furry rodents being cute I dont know

user55340

Ampt

9:01 PM

@Chad clearly we'll launder them into nordic snow plows

Chad

Seriously did anyone else notice that they had a pregnant woman put that on her car? I mean come on strap that to her ass and put her to work!

user55340

So... anyways... If cogsci wants it... by all means they can have it. I hope it doesn't fail a migration.

Mike

9:38 PM

well, finally took the plunge and started applying for new jobs, fingers crossed

user55340

9:54 PM

0

Q: Interviewing - How exactly do psychometric tests work?

There are different kinds of psychometric tests, I think the numerical and verbal ones are fair enough, I can see their usefulness. However, I cannot understand how the 'soft' psychometric tests work and how, in particular, they apply to programmers and programming. I just finished one which con...

untagged

user55340

It be bunted.

Roger that.

10-4

@Chad eat them obv

10:16 PM

Well I told my boss today that I would be taking the chicago job

and he said that it wouldn't change my internship

aww yiss

he was obviously dissapointed though which sucks

I look up to the guy a lot

user55340

What do people think of a cleanup of law - its a bit of a mess as it stands. You've got a mixture of Moore's law in there with patents and legal questions.

user55340

@Ampt Make sure you thank him for the time spent there and all the growth that you've experienced at the company. But its also important for him to realize that its often a necessary (and good step) to find out what else is out there and that there are significant things that they didn't have control over (like your GF's job) that influence the long term.

user55340

"Yea, I could if you matched it, but that would mean my girlfriend would really need to move out here and get a new job, and that would imply a $10k cut in her pay and benefits which I'd have to make up for..."

Mike

Personal opinion is that legal questions should be off topic in general, but I imagine that has come up on meta before.

user55340

@Mike We're programming experts, not legal experts. Questions that involve legalities and need a legal expert... well, it needs a legal expert.

Ampt

10:21 PM

@MichaelT I think getting her to move would be the real trick hahaha. And I did I told him I really appreciated everything he's done for me

I wish that there was a better reason but I just didn't have one

user20683

Moore's "Law" is just a theory.

Ampt

but being close to my girlfriend is important so it was the only thing that really tipped the scales

psr

@Mike Sometimes there are somewhat helpful answers based on experience (yes, lots of people use that license for that purpose) but when basically every answer and comment includes IANAL it's not a good sign.

user55340

Friends and family are things that often pull people to and from jobs that is well beyond the control of the employer.

enderland

@Ampt awww software developers are human!

Mike

10:23 PM

@psr Agree 100%, in fact I was in the process of typing a response about how IANAL is prefixed to every answer for questions that are actually asking legal advice.

user55340

The one area of legal that we do have some expert knowledge in is software licensing, though that is a fuzzy area, but clearly on topic.

user20683

@MichaelT There's a site proposal for open source licensing in A51 though

user55340

"Which license do I want" - meh. "How do I comply with licenses X, Y, and Z" - better.

user55340

@FrostEngineer Saw that. I'd happily let those find a better home there.

user20683

@MichaelT I'm gonna bring it up on Meta

psr

10:24 PM

Hmm, would a meta post about "If you have to say IANAL, it's off-topic" be a good thing to vote on?

user20683

I think it has a good chance of being a good site

user55340

Do that community ad thing for the site?

user55340

Kind of like how gamification did.

user20683

and tell people who ask about open source licensing to go support it

user55340

131

Open source licensing

Proposed Q&A site for people who want to use or publish open source software, data, documentation, open anything and have questions regarding which license is best, what the differences are between the different licenses, what restrictions exist regarding commercial use

Currently in definition.

user55340

10:26 PM

7

Q: How is this different than Programmers?

Proposal: Open source licensing All of the mentioned things are generally on topic on Programmers. The only caveat is that questions requiring the expertise of a lawyer are not allowed. If it's about something that a software developer would face in the course of a professional environment, it's...

technology

Ampt

@enderland Who knew!

user20683

Pro Tip: If you edit a tag wiki that's more than 90 days old you get both "The Stallman" and "Link to the Past"

psr

@FrostEngineer Is adding an HTML comment "wanted hat" considered bad form?

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT I don't want to touch that tag with a ten foot pole, my disagreements about it's fitting at all in any way whatsoever on this site has been aired already

user55340

@JimmyHoffa I'm thinking "close the legal questions that need a legal answer", retag the law -> legal as appopriate, or remove the law tag otherwise. Its only 28 answers.

enderland

10:30 PM

@FrostEngineer ooooh more hats!

Mike

What's an example of a legal question that doesn't need a legal answer?

user55340

0

Q: Why is Moore's Law seen as an absolute truth?

Often times I read things like: "Intel stated that either the next generation or generation after that will likely fail Moore's Law." Why don't they just say Moore's Law will fail instead? I don't know why it's held as some sort of standard that must be upheld? Why not aim for the highest progr...

law development software-law future

enderland

@Mike we have a lot of them at Workplace, generally they follow the "this is an easy answer" or "the answer to this question, which relates to legal issues, is to talk with HR/etc"

psr

@Mike Something like "Can I run software with a copyleft license on a server if I don't distribute it?" might qualify. Probably better with a specific license in the question.

user55340

You've also got things where its redundant...

user55340

10:32 PM

-1

Q: How to Legally secure my code?

I realize this might not be the best forum for this, but I seriously need advice. My current employer is about to fire me (i know via text i'm not supposed to see, but you know how working with friends can go). 65+% of the project is rightfully mine in that I never signed any waiver releasing t...

legal law

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT I've said before, I think the vin diagram of law/legal stuff should basically treat those circles as black holes, which means I don't want licensing questions, I want anything at all that touches those to be sucked into the void and crushed into stardust

user55340

@JimmyHoffa So you're very much pro "make that other SE and boot it all over there"?

Jimmy Hoffa

that's my personal thoughts but is quite disagreeable here and that's fine.

@MichaelT I don't think it can fit for any SE, I just think because the nature of the inherent risk in legal advisement - even tangential advisement - it has no merit to the internet at large

user55340

131

Open source licensing

Proposed Q&A site for people who want to use or publish open source software, data, documentation, open anything and have questions regarding which license is best, what the differences are between the different licenses, what restrictions exist regarding commercial use

Currently in definition.

user55340

There's a lot in there that doesn't require legal advising.

Jimmy Hoffa

10:35 PM

Hey if it gets it out of P.SE that's fine by me, but as soon as that happens I would go VTC the site on a51, making it a nice migration blackhole, yummy.

@MichaelT that's my point, even tangentially you can make claims that could be construed as legal advice by future visitors which causes them to do stupid shit and get themselves in trouble

psr

@JimmyHoffa A lot of people do want to know "this open source project has blah license. Can I actually use this in my project or am I doomed?" and don't really have a legal department to go to.

Jimmy Hoffa

@psr I know - and unfortunately the answer requires legal analysis or else risks future visitors viewing it and applying the advice in the answer to that question inappropriately to their situation

user55340

@gnat one "looks good" doesn't appear to kick it out of the queue anymore - programmers.stackexchange.com/review/low-quality-posts/47273

psr

@JimmyHoffa I do worry that somebody will eventually post an answer and get sued for it. I wonder if SE would help out if that happened?

Jimmy Hoffa

Either way; I've had this debate in here before, I know everyone disagrees with me on it and that's fine. I stand on an extremist stance regarding anything even remotely related to legality.

enderland

10:38 PM

@psr I'd be shocked if SE doesn't have something in their Terms and Conditions about absolution of responsibility

psr

@enderland I don't think they are obligated to help out. I just think it is arguably in there interest to do so.

Jimmy Hoffa

@enderland the problems with all the legalese in the world that tries to wring your hands of something is it can still require getting drawn out in court to test it

enderland

meh now you are making me paranoid :|

Jimmy Hoffa

You could get a harvard trained law team to write up a legal document for you that is uncontestably constitutional and viable, and lawyers could still take you to court based on it to make the courts actually judge whether it is a viable document

psr

@JimmyHoffa Be careful or I'll decree that haskell is illegal, thus making it remotely related to legality.

Jimmy Hoffa

10:41 PM

►

user55340

@psr Nah... just find someone who's patented your monad.

psr

@JimmyHoffa Great legal advice! Based on that I can now make a choice that previously seemed foolhardy!

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 bit of fun reading for someone who enjoys a bit of formality lateralscience.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/…

►

psr

11:08 PM

Has anyone ever seen a SQL query definition represented in objects? Perhaps some sort of QueryBuilder class might produce it? Ideally something open-source where I could nab the design?

Matt D

morning

you mean linq on top of EF?

Jimmy Hoffa

@psr Yes. A most atrocious DSL at a previous place I was at.

Written by people neither competently trustable to write SQL, a DSL, or an object model

psr

@MattD I don't mean linq. There might be something in EF but I doubt it, since I think it just goes from the "compiled" linq.

@JimmyHoffa I was hoping more for something that didn't suck.

Matt D

well thats the point of linq. you can go .query(m => m.Id == id)

and it works out the SQL for you

Jimmy Hoffa

@psr Ok, that was a bit snarky

@psr why pray tell? I hear two possibilities which are two different approaches: Design an API, or Design a DSL

psr

11:15 PM

@MattD I know. But I'm thinking more like Query.Select.Add(myColumn) kind of thing. I think Hibernate had something like that, I can try to look at that. Maybe it's in EF as well, but I wouldn't know about it.

Jimmy Hoffa

@psr Then you want an API where LINQ tries to be more well related to a DSL in many ways

Oh are you looking for something off the shelf?

I've never seen such an ORM.... perhaps in a dynamic language...

gnat

@MichaelT there was at least one additional VLQ flag (from yours truly) which could neuter one Looks Good...

8

Q: Flagging VLQ after opening the post in Low Quality queue but prior to recommending deletion

Tagging as bug as recommended by Shog here Currently, flagging post as very low quality is designed to work as specified here: If more than one VLQ flag accumulates on the post before the review has ended, a number of "Looks Good" responses equivalent to the number of flags is required to de...

bug review flags low-quality-posts

6

A: Can flags send a post into the Low Quality Posts review queue?

As of 3 days ago, Very Low Quality flags automatically add the flagged post to the Low Quality review queue. If more than one VLQ flag accumulates on the post before the review has ended, a number of "Looks Good" responses equivalent to the number of flags is required to dequeue it (edits, clos...

psr

@JimmyHoffa I need to build MUMPS queries, and allow others to do so to some degree in a UI, and I want a representation of the query as an object. Then I can create SQL from it, or, in the miniscule chance that the query optimizer has issues, I can do something else.

@JimmyHoffa Ha!

gnat

> If more than one VLQ flag accumulates on the post before the review has ended, a number of "Looks Good" responses equivalent to the number of flags is required to dequeue it...

Jimmy Hoffa

@psr Yeah this is precisely what the DSL thingy was in my last job I mentioned

psr

11:18 PM

@JimmyHoffa Sigh

Jimmy Hoffa

@psr you have visual studio? It had a query building UI back in the day, probably still hidden there somewhere

for concepts

@psr just because they made something downright stupid doesn't mean you would.. theres was stupid because the nature of how they did it, along with everything else they did - hard coded columns referenced by name which mapped to an id which was used to map to the column id, which was then munged into the query id which was mapped to a query fragment which was then recursively looped against all query filter types and all query filter types chosen and all chosen column ids and filter fragments

psr

@JimmyHoffa The UI probably isn't what you are thinking of. Not really that flexible. But I will have to build a lot of queries up based in part on user input (more than just having some parameters or something) and I can't really trust the query optimizer either. Ideally I could copy some example that has gone through the mistakes, even though I'm planning to keep simple enough not to hit them.

Jimmy Hoffa

I could go on but I just felt a red mist leave one of my ears...

@psr I've never really seen this done personally sorry. I think your design sense will lead you truer than most who have done this anyway as a minimum of times is such an approach warranted, therefore what you might find from others would be crap like I saw - bad because if the engineers were any good they would have known better than to do it to begin with

Being that you're living in MUMPS your scenario is the uncommon where perhaps it is a good idea to do it

psr

@JimmyHoffa If you mimic SQL there is some recursion (sub-queries can have sub-queries, you can put a sub-query in an item in a SELECT (sort of recursion, not really)). But the design does seem ... sub-optimal.

@JimmyHoffa That's exactly why the "sigh" - "normally this would just be stupid, but in your situation maybe...".

Jimmy Hoffa

@psr The problems were all about the fact that they had identifiers for so many different things that all mapped back to identifiers that mapped back to identifiers that eventually pointed at something, but the layers of resolutions of each individiual thing was stupid. Not to mention the eventual result was usually executed against an in-memory array as that's where they loaded most of the database - a one dimensional in memory array.

psr

11:25 PM

Oy

I was hoping an ORM had a query builder option. I guess I have a theory what to Google.

...And the first hit with mention of language is for PHP.

Hmm, this road seems to have an unusual number of crossbones and laughing demons...

Jimmy Hoffa

@psr That's not laughing, those demons are just coughing, cold season 'n all

psr

docs.sqlalchemy.org/en/rel_0_7/core/tutorial.html

Robert Harvey

@gnat: What is that boilerplate close reason you use for "Name that Thing" questions? Why can't I ever find it on Meta?

user20683

►

Jimmy Hoffa

23 mins ago, by Jimmy Hoffa

I've never seen such an ORM.... perhaps in a dynamic language...

@RobertHarvey "BURN WITH THE ENERGY OF A BEAR THAT HAS THE ENERGY OF FIVE BEARS" ?

Robert Harvey

11:41 PM

'This question appears to be off topic because it is a "name that thing" question. Name that thing questions bla bla bla...

@JimmyHoffa Sounds like you're talking about Massive.

Here it is.

This question appears to be off-topic because it is a "name that thing" question. "Name that thing" are bad questions for the same reasons that "identify this obscure TV show, film or book by its characters or story" are bad questions: you can't Google them, they aren't practical in any way, they don't help anyone else, and allowing them opens the door for the asking of other types of marginal questions. See blog.stackoverflow.com/2012/02/lets-play-the-guessing-game

cv-pls

0

Q: Is there any way to import a json file(contains 100 documents) in elasticsearch server.?

Is there any way to import a json file(contains 100 documents) in elasticsearch server.? i want to import a big json file into es-server.