The Whiteboard

Jimmy Hoffa

4:00 PM

►

The thanks was genuine - it's a great song :D

user41796

@JimmyHoffa That was an epic song.

user41796

Hilarious doesn't really do it justice.

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 Aye, but we already dregged through the nerdcore genre in here recently, so I'll say not more of it other than MC Chris is indeed awesome.

user41796

Yeah, and I need to get some code taken care of today. Although once I get the code done then I have to jack with visuals in Silverlight again. Bleh.

Jimmy Hoffa

Am I the only one who wants to call it peer programming instead of pair programming sometimes, only to catch myself being totally unsure which it is when both actually make perfect sense

user41796

4:05 PM

peer has linguistic connotations that pair does not. I'm relatively certain the intent was to use pair because of the broader meaning.

MetaFight

I always thought it was pear programming. Might explain why I'm the only one with pears on my desk.

user41796

@MetaFight if they're in season, then that's bueno

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 I know, but for some reason I just get it mixed up in my head sometimes, and then when I try to think logically about it to decide which it is - it really doesn't help out, peer has the connotation that you're doing it with a peer, which is totally accurate...

user55340

@MetaFight All the developers I've paired with have been pear shaped...

MetaFight

@MichaelT :|

user41796

4:08 PM

@JimmyHoffa I saw pair programming as a way of making a more experienced programmer suffer through teaching a less experienced programmer by sharing one keyboard.

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 That's mentoring

user41796

So I haven't had the same connotation issues

jozefg

So close to being a trusted user on SO, I want my new privileges

user55340

I've seen pair programming chosen by "highest and lowest estimates" - which has the effect of knowledge transfer - someone knows something the other doesn't. You aren't always sure who it is though.

Jimmy Hoffa

I've pair programmed oft with folks at my level, when we're working in a harry bit of logic that we need to get right

user41796

4:09 PM

@jozefg I applaud your efforts on surviving the high-churn site.

user41796

@JimmyHoffa don't you write that stuff out on paper first?

jozefg

@GlenH7 Eh, it's pretty slow in the Haskell tag so I usually hang out there

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 his magic trick is sticking in small-community tags

user55340

pair programming with peer has the advantage that you both work faster because you're at the same level.

user41796

my weakness is I don't know all that much in any area that would qualify as a small community tag

user55340

4:11 PM

pair programming as mentoring isn't a bad thing, but needs to realize that neither part of the pair will be programming at full efficiency.

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 Roughly, but too much detail on paper is a waste of time because the realities when you start putting code to file is different

user41796

@JimmyHoffa That's true too. I use paper for high to medium level design. Low level is knocked out faster at the keyboard

user55340

Sometimes the act of writing something on paper serves as a better memory aide too on how you want to design it. Short of going to a drawing program, paper also deals nicely with non-textual items - UI mockups, arrows, diagrams...

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 yeah, and the times I've pair programmed it's always been important we have a whiteboard on hand, it's really a specialized case of "We're doing something that needs to be done right for more than just us" so we talk about the minutia as we're going and the pace isn't great, we have fits and bursts going back and forth from whiteboard to editor and back, many people claim to hate coding like this but I've only ever had to do it for a day maybe 2 at the most

user55340

@JimmyHoffa thinkgeek.com/product/efc2 ?

Jimmy Hoffa

4:14 PM

So for all the complaining people make about pair programming, I'm a fan so long as it's used for the right things. Mentoring however never takes that long, that's usually an hour maybe 2 over someone's shoulder in my experience, but more frequent

I'm quite certain I'd go mad if asked to pair program everything...

user41796

I haven't done any formal pair programming, so I really can't say. The first time it was mentioned, my potential pair was a senior dev whose style and personality I simply didn't agree with. I think that permanently soured me on the concept. At my current workplace, we'll grab a conference room and throw things up on the projector on a regular basis.

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 that is pair programming.. anybody who thinks formality is required about it is missing the point, but then so is the case with most people who focus on formality and decorum over effectiveness

user41796

@JimmyHoffa That's the way it was initially pitched to that particular group that I was on. It was ... disconcerting to think about.

Jimmy Hoffa

often times people focus on formality because they don't have the skills to informally just do the dang job, so they focus on formality because at least they can do that stuff

user55340

The best "pair programming" was where I sat down with someone who had the idea of the requirements and me with a rapid development language (in this case perl). He told me what he wanted, and I wrote it. He learned a tad bit of perl while doing it... but it was much more efficient than a big design up front my him.

user41796

4:18 PM

@MichaelT I could see that working really well. In essence, he was a BA fleshing out the design on the fly.

André

I had good experiences with pair programming and mentoring, similar as @JimmyHoffa experiences.

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT I think back to some important time series data analysis me and a colleague were rewriting from a monolithic mess with tons of requirements that were cemented in by accident or kludge, where incorrectly analyzing the data would give incorrect patient reports to doctors... we were both around same skill level but @GlenH7 you would appreciate our pair programming there because it caused us to move slower and be far more thorough and diligent than if either one of us did it alone

user55340

@GlenH7 Yep. Granted, he was a programmer with the application that called mine... but it was still a customer/programmer relationship in that case.

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 That's the type of situation I find pair programming (not mentoring) quite good, though that means it should only happen maybe once every 3-6 months

user55340

(I was writing a component of the build / deploy system that he had the high level development / flow for)

André

4:21 PM

The most useful was when design/implementing a genetic algorithm to save costs when printing things. Picking the right paper size, how many colors, if duplex saves money and so on. We had better results than the human choices :)

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT So the differing skills thing. I could not see this working well with any BA I've ever known. They just don't have the mind set for "Sit still, work on problem for constantly, diligently, step by step" which is what implementation always is.

None I've ever worked with anyways

user55340

@JimmyHoffa There were a few things that made it work - we were both programmers, I was working in a language I could very rapidly work in (no compile deploy phase), and we both knew where it was going... and had 100% control over the system and dedication to this at the time.

Ampt

@jozefg Haha then double congrats! That's extremely impressive!

@GlenH7 haha thanks for the clarification. I noticed that too

user55340

Trying to get a proper BA to sit with a programmer for a few hours as the code develops would bore the BA... working in a language where I even had to spend 30 seconds doing a compile/deploy would break the flow of the working on it.

Oded

That's where things like executable requirements shine

Jimmy Hoffa

4:25 PM

-1

Q: One's Complement and Pointer Arithmetic Help

I have a final tomorrow evening for a C programming class, and it's a language in which I am very rusty. I know my exam will have questions on calculating one's complement and pointer arithmetic examples. My frustration with the types of questions I saw on the previous 2 midterms is that the qu...

user41796

@Oded executable requirements? I haven't heard of the term before.

Jimmy Hoffa

...just saying, you have a big red button, and well I'll let you finish that thought

user55340

@Oded In this case, honestly, we were figuring it out as we were building it.

user55340

@GlenH7 Online judge programs are such things - you deploy the app there, they run it and see if it works. Its a requirement that it does XYZ.

Oded

@MichaelT - yep still good. Look up the gherkin language - there are lots of different environments where you can execute it.

user55340

4:27 PM

The challenge was to take a huge set of jars, wars, and ears (that will all be exploded once deployed), and make the deployment as small as possible.

Oded

github.com/cucumber/cucumber/wiki/Gherkin

user41796

@MichaelT okay, that makes more sense then. Take the phrase literally.

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT You put the ears in the jars, and they start wars amongst eachother?

user55340

@JimmyHoffa no, ears get boxed.

user41796

@MichaelT boxed ears can seriously hurt. Hit hard enough and they'll be deaf for a bit.

Jimmy Hoffa

4:28 PM

@MichaelT Then the wars are in boxes? What's in the jars? Are the ears using jars in their wars?

user55340

We had a program that was probably about 500 megabytes for a full deployment. Pushing that down the pipe to 300 stores would cause problems. Could we get it down to a smaller deployment.

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT Modular software implementation is so overrated...

mmm coffee + cough drop...

user55340

So it went through and found all the .class files that were the same, found the differences between deployments, wrote a shell script to verify the from / to update, and created a zip file of the .class files that changed and the shell script to run.

user55340

In the end, we got the deployment down to 10 megabytes minimum (had to do with files that always changed every deployment) and about 30 megabytes for a standard deployment.

user55340

Oh, other bit with that pair programming - the other programmer had a better understanding of what was were in the build process and what went were in the deployment than I did - so he was also a source of knowledge lookup for me.

user55340

4:37 PM

Why do I want 20k rep? Oh yea...

user55340

-1

Q: C++ PROGRAM :-WRITE A PROGRAM TO DO THE FOLLOWING ON BINARY FILE

WRITE A PROGRAM TO DO THE FOLLOWING ON BINARY FILE. (i)insert object of student class into "student.dat" file. (ii)display objects from student.dat file. (iii)search a particular student from the binary file.

c++

user41796

that homework is due today and this is your last desperate attempt right? Even if someone was going to do ALL your work for you, that's kinda impossible given the question since you didn't provide student.dat file. — DXM 2 mins ago

user41796

That's an epic comment from DXM

user55340

(sorry I didn't join in the vtc on that one - I've only got 4 left... I'm sure we'll have others today...)

user41796

I'm running low on ammo too. It's okay though, I'm sure we'll find a way to hold the barbarians to outside the gates.

Jimmy Hoffa

4:41 PM

-3

Q: How to access files in a WS_FTP server in remote desktop using C#

I want to connect to unix server using C# code. FTP text files are placed in FTP server and asynchronosly those files are transferred to the WS_FTP server in the text file format. I do want to access those files from the server. can someone please help me with step by step process.

c#

user41796

Now only if @Ampt would step it up and get to 3k we'd have more fighters for the war!

user41796

@JimmyHoffa already VTC'd

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 I'm taunting @MichaelT's comment above of "I'm sure there will be others.."

Oded

I keep forgetting that Robert is not a Programmers mod.

user41796

I do too every now and then

Ampt

4:42 PM

@GlenH7 fighters for the war? let's not get carried away.. hahaha

user41796

-1

Q: Mengers sponge recoursive function

I need some help with exercise. I have to make Mengers sponge i looks like this: http://siom.lmio.lt/m/t/menger_sponge.jpg These are my imputs/outputs (examples). 0 # 1 ### #.# ### 2 ######### #.##.##.# ######### ###...### #.#...#.# ###...### ######### #.##.##.# #########

algorithms

user41796

Need I say more?

user55340

Btw, there's another new homework problem that just showed up. Kind of amusing...

Jimmy Hoffa

@Oded I actually thought he genuinely was for a long time when I first joined P.SE..

user41796

@Ampt WE. NEED. YOU!

Oded

4:42 PM

Too used to his diamond on SO / MSO

user55340

Mission: Ampt 3k.

Jimmy Hoffa

-1

Q: coding via GUI using eclipse juno

How do I actually start coding via GUI? For example, I have four user interfaces, such as Cashier UI, Sales Figure UI, Kitchen UI and Food UI. How do I actually start coding and also connect the coding into the UI listed above? So that it will work like normal applications? Thanks so much!

object-oriented-design gui eclipse

Ampt

ugh. I should change my name and icon and pretend to not know you guys ;)

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT
> Thanks so much!

user41796

Woo hoo! Air support from the diamonds!

Ampt

4:43 PM

well I may have a lot of free time starting soon if this whole job thing happens

user41796

ok, now I'm taking the analogy a little too far.

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ampt What about "job thing happens" = "lot of free time" ??

user41796

@Ampt code has gotta compile. And you don't have any studying left to do.

user41796

@JimmyHoffa he's doing job + school. Soon he'll just be job so that'll be lots more time.

user55340

That sponge question... I'm half tempted to write it in very terse perl.

Ampt

4:44 PM

@JimmyHoffa Current internship/day job is with company A. If I accept company Bs offer, I may no longer have a job with company A

I'm not sure yet but it may work out that way

user41796

@JimmyHoffa another one I already put a VTC on

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ampt Yeah, but you'll have all the onboarding and hours to burn with Company B

Ampt

@JimmyHoffa won't start until june

no, chicago is company B

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 so? I'm trying to burn @MichaelT's VTCs for the day just so he can be sooner tormented by the things he can't vote on

Ampt

my weekly job is with waukesha, which may or may not continue when I break the news that I"m no longer interested in full timing with them

user55340

4:46 PM

@Ampt that depends on the culture and how much you know.

user41796

I need to read things more closely before asking more questions

user55340

They may want you to spend the next N weeks working with other people doing a brain dump on them.

Ampt

@MichaelT I Could see it going either way. I've been doing it as this project is winding down (Documentation, wikis, etc etc)

user55340

I've also seen the "you're leaving? We'll call security and finish up things today"

Ampt

that wouldn't happen

well not security

but we may decide to part ways

honestly I'm not sure

Jimmy Hoffa

4:48 PM

@Ampt some places also have a culture of "Oh darn! Well we're happy to have you until you gotta go, you can come back anytime, CALL US! WE LOVE YOU <3"

Depends on the place

user41796

@ampt Company B won't start you until June?!

user55340

Both were at Netapp - one was me leaving (they laid me off) but they wanted me to stay around for 2x pay for the next 4 months to do a brain dump. The other was another guy leaving, and going to a tangential competitor.

Ampt

@GlenH7 they're in chicago and I don't graduate until may, YO

I aint doing tha tcommute

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ampt that is HIGHLY suspect.

Ampt

huh?

thats totally standard operating procedure for everyone around here

user55340

4:49 PM

@JimmyHoffa Not really - they want the degree to be able to bill more. Starting early doesn't add value to the company.

user41796

Ah, I thought you were graduating around now

Jimmy Hoffa

Company's are happy to renig at any time between agreement and starting date when they do shit like that

user55340

@JimmyHoffa They can get in contractural problems if they do that.

Ampt

@JimmyHoffa written contract, etc etc

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT Still... it's a risk to be aware of

user41796

4:49 PM

@JimmyHoffa nah, pretty standard in this case with new hires.

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT ?? I've seen it happen..

Ampt

I appreciate the concern but that's literally everyones MO at this point

user41796

It can happen, yes. But fairly rare

Jimmy Hoffa

alright, I guess my experiences were far from the norm then; carry on

Ampt

about 50% of my class has already accepted offers exactly like this and another 40% will be done before the end of january

Jimmy Hoffa

4:50 PM

(didn't happen to me, rather I saw it happen to others)

user41796

Most companies see it as a win-win. Student has assurance of job, so they focus on graduating and having fun. Company has new employees already lined up so staffing and projects can be planned.

user55340

There've been cases where the worker won - promised a job, moved, bought a house, no job.

user41796

@JimmyHoffa Sun burned a lot of new hires like that during the .com crash

user55340

The worker got from the company that broke the promise lost wages from the other company, cost of moving, cost of house.

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT Yeah, this may be more common for students though, when I'd seen it happen it was experienced folks. Perhaps being that they're aware it's a green face being hired they give more leeway

user41796

4:52 PM

It would be a lot more troublesome if @Ampt was graduating now and the offer didn't start till June. That would be a huge red flag.

user41796

@Ampt - if company A terms your internship because you accept the offer from B, that's kind of a sign that you made the right decision.

user55340

It would be slightly different if the case was that B was in the same or similar industry as A... but as they are completely different... what @GlenH7 said.

Jimmy Hoffa

Agreed. I'd be surprised if that happens based on your description of the place @Ampt

They're probably happy to have you around for as long as they can have you

it's not like you're hurting their bottom line

user41796

And if they're smart, they'll keep trying to figure out a way to get you to rescind accepting Co.B and to accept with them.

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 yeah, I've had folks press me every hour of my last two weeks trying to fight HR and get more and more things to give me

user55340

4:55 PM

@GlenH7 as an "engineer", what wold it take to do that radiant heat thing for a driveway?

user41796

@MichaelT not too hard to do.

user41796

depends upon how efficient you want it.

user41796

@JimmyHoffa it's good to feel wanted.

user55340

@GlenH7 compared to say... hiring an intern to shovel it for me.

user41796

"the right way" would be to
remove existing driveway
dig down a bit further
lay down insulating panels
lay down gravel
lay down pex piping for heating tubes
re-pour concrete

user41796

4:58 PM

I think driveways ought to be reinforced since it's cheap to do when putting them in. In this case the rebar might help protect the pex pipes.

user41796

then hook up the pipes to a monster water heater or a series of solar panels or both

user41796

you only need to keep the concrete 5 - 10 degrees above freezing to melt off the snow.

user55340

One of my "things to spend money on" this summer is a new garage... and the driveway needs work too.

user55340

My current garage is a tight fit for a regular sized car. Most people here have Ford F150 sized pickups here. And I've got a 60 year old garage.

user41796

garages are like sheds. Always build them bigger than you think you need.

user55340

5:01 PM

So, move it back to the back edge of the property, make it a two truck sized garage... and redo the driveway while there.

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT Better idea @MichaelT - salt water tank buried next to driveway + temperature/hygrometer sensor driven low-volume pump and overhead spray shower heads. Gets cold/humid enough to ice up, it drizzles very salty water for 10 seconds every minute from 15' above your drive. Proper valve and plumbing could ensure the piping is all drained by gravity every time the 10 second spray period is up (just make the pump cause the spray by constantly running but turning a valv that blocks

recirculation through the tank, forcing it out of the sprinkler heads)

user55340

Granted I won't use two truck, but its a significant value add to the property.

Jimmy Hoffa

My idea is way crazier than yours, therefore it's better!

user41796

@JimmyHoffa salt is horrific on concrete and vegetation though

user55340

A former cow-orker suggested a giant springs or hydraulics under the driveway to push it all onto the neighbors back yard.

Jimmy Hoffa

5:02 PM

@GlenH7 BUT THIS IDEA IS AWESOME

@MichaelT Had one of these in Pittsburgh - what a useless garage... there was no way to open the doors when you drove into it

user55340

This would also be installed in the sidewalk for extra laughs during halloween.

user55340

(the giant springs)

user41796

If you're replacing your driveway, have them run several large PVC pipes underneath before they pour the concrete. Makes your life a lot easier later on if you want to run whatever to the other side of the driveway. whatever == irrigation line, electricity, ...

user55340

user55340

My driveway. That's a trailer with plywood on it in the garage.

Jimmy Hoffa

5:04 PM

@GlenH7 A typical driveway isn't anchored either is it? Would it be wise / cause more resistance to cracking if it were?

user55340

You can actually see the cracking and such from the poor fill when it was built.

user55340

Both along side the house, and the patch job at the junction of the sidewalk.

user41796

@JimmyHoffa reinforced with rebar? Generally not, as it's a few hundred more added on to the cost and people are cheap.

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 Not reinforced - anchored.

user41796

anchored to what then? The house? surrounding sidewalk?

user41796

5:07 PM

my understanding is they generally aren't anchored either. The presumption being that all of the ground will move at the same rate if it moves. Ergo no need to anchor

Jimmy Hoffa

dig 4' long trench just below frost line, place something heavy, put pier strongly attached to that up and at the top attached to the driveway

Wonder if a few of these would decrease or increase likelihood of cracking... I could see it go either way...

user41796

@JimmyHoffa haven't heard of that for midwest or southwest construction.

user41796

probably increase, to be honest.

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 oh...you

gnat

@GlenH7 not bad (retracted my CV and DV)

user41796

5:08 PM

@Oded - nice and thanks for that surprise gift when opening that latest Q

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT I've got it! Bury a shipping container under your driveway!!

better yet, top of the shipping container = driveway! No cement required!

user41796

@JimmyHoffa yeah, better to let the pad "float". Anchoring as you described will increase the stress on the pad when things shift. More stress means more cracks

user55340

Word to the wise: corn based biodegradable packing peanuts are not white cheddar curds.

user41796

Tom already told you how they work. They're head-shrinker horseshit that some HR departments take seriously. — Robert Harvey 1 min ago

user41796

@MichaelT bleh

user55340

5:11 PM

user41796

@MichaelT - if you were putting in some solar panels, I could see heating at least part of the driveway. But that's a monstrous amount of energy required, so I don't think it would be practical / cost-efficient.

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT I know, I was just hoping for some suspension of belief in that regard

user55340

The frost line for where I live is 70"

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT I was speaking in an ideal reality, you know where the frostline is 10" above ground :)

@SamLeach As Robert mentioned in his comment above - this question is off topic because it is not about programming. The questions may be on programming interviews but they are on many non-programming interviews, this simply isn't on topic for this site regardless of your interest. Keep that in mind in the future when asking questions here, topicality is fixed for this site and defined in the faq — Jimmy Hoffa 29 secs ago

Hoping to stop him from asking another shitty question in the future because he clearly didn't understand why his question was closed, he thought it was closed because people don't believe in his voodoo witchcraft, which really wasn't the sticking point at all

if disbelief in voodoo witchcraft was a sticking point for questions, we wouldn't have anything about monads or haskell on the site at all

user55340

With all of these people adding in 'please help' into their closed questions, I'll get the 250 reviewer for reopen votes in no time. The don't understand that a lacking a plea to help isn't the reason it was closed.

user41796

5:22 PM

@MichaelT makes the review easier. Check the revision; see the revision is worthless; vote "leave closed"

Jimmy Hoffa

0

Q: How to know, with good performance, which areas a certain point is in?

I'm interested in build a prototype that needs this sort of thing: Point A (xa, ya) covers an area of 500 meters. Point B (xb, yb) covers an area of 700 meters. Point C (xc, yc) covers an area of 1200 meters. Point D (xd, yd) covers an area of 200 meters. Person 123 is in some certain point. ...

algorithms programming-practices performance

@RobertHarvey I think he wants to do collision testing. What you really want is to use a quad-tree for collision detection, this is a well-known high performance approach, there's a variety of blog articles you can find on how to do it and here's an SO Q about it with good info stackoverflow.com/questions/9762476/… - it sounds like your description of your planned approach (quadrants) is similar conceptually to how quadtrees do collision detection. I'd write an answer but honestly I don't remember the details of it super well. — Jimmy Hoffa 1 min ago

@GlenH7 @MichaelT @Ampt if either of you want to stretch your data structures prowess, go write an answer detailing how quad trees work for 2d spaces and how they work in general

...or I could dupe close to:

3

Q: Search algorithm with co-ordinate (x,y) hints?

I am about to start writing a UI view where many small text items are laid-out over the view and when the user hovers over a text item a dynamically-generated image is displayed (like a tooltip), relevant to the context of that text item. When the user clicks the text item, another view will cha...

algorithms data-structures search storage

user41796

no more close votes for today. Sigh.

user55340

5:38 PM

@GlenH7 Here too... we'll just have to get @YannisRizos to be an evil mod for a bit.

user41796

@MichaelT I dunno. His reputation as a mod makes me think he wouldn't consider such things...

user55340

Or get @Ampt 1072 rep...

user55340

I mean, thats only 4x 250 bounties...

user41796

Apropos of nothing, I'm having an gyro and hummus for lunch today.

user55340

@YannisRizos does delivery? Hmm... what would it take to get him to deliver here...

user41796

5:40 PM

@MichaelT but I'm a few hundred rep from being on the first page of /users....

user41796

@MichaelT The cafe worker went back and got me a freshly heated slice of pita. I was grateful.

user55340

(and I'm about 3k rep from 20k... and to find another outlet for delete votes... oh... how tempting)

user55340

We would have been able to help Robert and FormsDesigner to clean things up a bit faster without having a mod - programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/221656/…

user41796

I need a measly 68 rep to land on the front page of /users

user41796

@MichaelT there's a hidden philosophical question there

user41796

5:43 PM

Are other vote-to-delete users now voting because a critical mass has started to form?

user55340

@GlenH7 I believe so.

user55340

The amount of 'pressure' to cast that first close vote... or first delete vote is harder.

user55340

But casting the 2nd or 3rd... much less 'responsibility' as such.

user55340

The other thing is that this was a front page item (but then 20k vtd question all are)

user41796

it mirrors the SO close vote queue problem in a way. People don't review there because it seems impossible. Maybe they didn't vote here because it was seen as futile.

user55340

5:45 PM

Quite possible. Though seeing the effects of vtd often requires looking at the recently deleted.

user41796

correction, 38 points now. W00t!

user55340

But we've got a fair number of vtd with 3 of four: gnat, you, me, bart.

user55340

Right now, you only occasionally see an answer in the 'recently deleted' - and those really are trickier ones to do.

Jimmy Hoffa

0

Q: How to mock method with hard coded object?

I am working on an application which have multiple layers. Data access layer to retrieve and save data from data source, business logic to manipulate data, user interface to show the data on screen. I also doing unit testing of the business logic layer. The only requirement is to test the flow o...

unit-testing mocking

user41796

@MichaelT There are / were a few thorny questions. They had an initial vote or two, but I couldn't make up my mind on anchoring it.

Jimmy Hoffa

5:49 PM

Have you tried staring it dead in the eyes, squawking like a chicken and flapping your arms? — Jimmy Hoffa 31 secs ago

...some things simply must be said...

user41796

@JimmyHoffa I wish I could up vote that and then flag as not constructive

Jimmy Hoffa

@SamLeach because it isn't specific to programmers, you could use those tests to hire cashiers and gas station assembly plumbing supervisory assistants. Gripe all you want but as I told you earlier, read the FAQ, also read the other questions about job and interview stuff and notice how many are on hold/closed. — Jimmy Hoffa 25 secs ago

Uncommonly well paid job, not a lot of gas station assembly plumbing supervisory assistants out there, they're well sought after.

However I hear the psychotelekemetronomic interviewing questions are a bitch, total headache

user55340

Scenario: I am interviewing programmers for my new programming position. I want to decide if to use a psychometric test. I go to PROGRAMMERS.stackexchange.com to find an answer. I cannot find an answer because the question was closed. This question is about psychometric tests in the context of programming jobs, there are many other interview / job related questions on this site. Why is this different? — Sam Leach 13 mins ago

user55340

@SamLeach If you switch "programmers" for "designers" or "employees", the question remains identical. This means the question is not a good fit for P.SE. In particular, look at the help center and the 'bullseye' chart. This question, despite having the word 'programmers' in it is an All Careers question. — MichaelT 2 mins ago

user55340

I got my bit in there too.

Jimmy Hoffa

5:56 PM

aside - I feel absolutely horrible for anyone that guy's interviewing... worse if they get hired by him, your manager believes in pseudo science - welcome to the peak of engineering...

I just hope he gets the picture and doesn't ask more questions like that

user41796

@SamLeach - comments aren't the place to justify the merits of your question. Consider opening a question on Programmers Meta or asking about it in Programmers Chat. — GlenH7 21 secs ago

user41796

6:16 PM

@JimmyHoffa - you sniped me well with that d* infinite field of 1 ohm resistors equivalent resistance problem.

Chad

someone asked in TWP about migrating programmers.stackexchange.com/q/221661/26304 there... we have closed that question there before. You might consider Cognitive science though.

user41796

@Chad That was a suggestion by kevin cline. And it was suggested after Robert Harvey posted a link to a very similar Q on TW.

user41796

Pretty sure it won't get migrated.

user41796

but we could have fun and kick it to TW and then TW can kick it to Cognitive. And then Cognitive can kick it back here. And then we can start all over again...

user41796

@gnat - you take all of the fun out of everything.

Jimmy Hoffa

6:36 PM

@GlenH7 here's your fun real science reading for today: pipeline.corante.com/archives/2010/02/23/…

and for anyone else who's interested... just some interesting reading

user55340

@GlenH7 Alas, can't migrate a migration.

user55340

Otherwise I'd be tempted to do my ultra-morph question that tries to change itself slightly to be a different question to migrate it to every site on the net.

Jimmy Hoffa

Beware of Chlorine Trifluoride:

> It is also hypergolic with such things as cloth, wood, and test engineers, not to mention asbestos, sand, and water-with which it reacts explosively.

user55340

Start out with a P.SE question that gets migrated to bitcoin, that gets bounced to SO and then over to Security.SE... and then I tweak it to how to do an airgap in my home to send it to DIY, which would then somehow get into sustainable practices, and then morph it to gardening...

user55340

And since each step loses the edit history... they'd never catch on! MWAHWAHAWHWA!

user55340

6:46 PM

Just have to watch for super mods like ChrisF - he might catch a SO to P.SE to DIY migration chain.

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT Somebody needs to create a SE Pinball competition: How many migrations can you get a question to complete in 1 day

user55340

Only 1 unless mods cooperate with you.

user55340

They'd need to do super mod stuff to clear out the fact that it was a migration from another site in order to migrate it to another site. Its happened before. People doing some meta P.SE question on SO main, which gets migrated to MSO, which gets mod magicked to migrate to meta.P.SE

user55340

However, if we migrated a question to SO, they can't migrate it again to, say... DBA.SE, they can only close it and reject the migration back to us.

user55340

Coworker 1 puts packing peanuts on desk in a blow. They kind of look like white cheddar cheese curds.
Coworker 2 comes in around noon and sees them and exclaims loudly "are those packing peanuts?!"
Coworker 3 chimes in with "yea, they're not bad with the ranch dip." (he did try it).

Jimmy Hoffa

6:52 PM

@MichaelT Assumption is mod convincing would be at play

user55340

(s/blow/bowl) Blowing a bowl of packing peanuts wouldn't be proper at all either.

gnat

8

A: Is SO Saying that Chuck Yeager was a Secret Soviet?

I will say, figuring out why you earned this hat might present you with a very bright opportunity. Or you could wait, all will be revealed in the end ....

psr

7:38 PM

OK Sam, here is how they work. Someone completely makes up personality "dimensions" like "unctuous/gritty","cat/dog","go-getter/loser" and makes up questions they feel indicate one or the other. They put in some ringers where they feel anyone who picks option "I have never in my life felt sad" is lying. Then, as scientists, they verify that people taking the test more than once get approximately the same value both times, with a T test that rejects the null hypothesis with p<.01. Then they sell it to gullible HR people, who use it to add noise to the hiring process. — psr 2 mins ago

user55340

@psr gritty, cat, loser FTW!

user20683

(cons self home)

user20683

@MichaelT Today I realized that cons is partial application of data. My brain exploded in a shower of parentheses.

Jimmy Hoffa

We lost the documentation on quantum mechanics. You'll have to decode the regexes yourself.

Ampt

@MichaelT Want to see how fast that rep can be re-bountied? ;)

@GlenH7 @JimmyHoffa thanks for the confidence, we'll see how it goes later today :)

although its more about the fact that my girlfriends prospects of moving closer to my current job just dropped quite a bit yesterday

the firm that her firm is acquiring is a civil engineering firm, so she wouldn't be able to transfer up there for the foreseeable future

user55340

7:46 PM

Oh... another "engineering" type. They just keep making them up.

Ampt

"engineering?" type?

user55340

Civil, mechanical, electrical, computer, electrical computer, mechanical...

Ampt

Pretty sure Civil Engineering predates our field by quite a bit ;)

user20683

@Ampt Yes, "Girlfriend Engineering"

user55340

I'm sure there's a "management engineering"... its a subfield of "social engineering"

Ampt

7:47 PM

oh she's an architectural engineer, and I'll admit that that's a bit of a made up title

user20683

@Ampt Last I checked, that's a kind of civil engineer.

Ampt

she does building mechanical systems though. It is engineering but it would have traditionally fallen under Mechanical engineering

user55340

@FrostEngineer You jest... engineers don't have girlfriends.

Ampt

does that make me not an engineer?

@JimmyHoffa I take it all back, let me into your ranks

Jimmy Hoffa

@MattD you've done enough spatial coding to probably wing a detailed quadtree explanation off the cuff here: programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/221662/…

user20683

7:48 PM

@Ampt That just makes you a contradiction. Be glad we aren't math.SE.

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ampt Have you taken the apples out of the buckets and turned them into buckets of apples again yet?

user55340

Occasionally, they're paired off in with a member of the appropriate gender that minimizes the risks.

Ampt

@JimmyHoffa did you just ask if i've "Sealed the deal" with my girlfriend?

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ampt Wait, you want to not be an engineer because engineers don't have girlfriends - so you want to be an architectural engineer in Chicago's girlfriend?

Ampt

@JimmyHoffa oh god the variables are all out of place! We'll never get him back together again! Nooooo

user20683

7:50 PM

@JimmyHoffa A two timing lech he is.

user55340

@Ampt I think he was trying to be monadic or something like that. You can probably chalk it up to something that Haskell made him think about today.

user20683

@MichaelT Javascript, he hoisted the scope.

Jimmy Hoffa

@FrostEngineer A two timing leche is