Ask Ubuntu General Room

8:00 PM

@GabrielF so while IN THEORY link only answers are okay, they will later become not an answer items if the link goes away, so we even say when answering in the help center and elsewhere you should copy in the key points from the linked item into your answer for such cases

GabrielF

@ThomasW. Earlier, in fact... and I strongly agree with it. But I wasn't using the original author's post as a guide for my answer. It would be copying, and that just doesn't soudn right for me.

Braiam

@GabrielF not to being contrary to Oli but I had to upvote Guilles answer instead, since Stack Exchange is an authoritative source of information we couldn't redirect someone looking for answers to other resources. Resources are just to be referenced, they do not make the answers in/of themself

Thomas W.

@RolandiXor because of his last statement i'm downvoting him on principle, you can handle the dispute on that, because the link alone without details makes it a crap answer, IMO

RolandiXor

@ThomasW. I won't handle what I think is clear cut :)

I'm making a logo in Inkscape :P

GabrielF

@Braiam, I don't think that applies... it was not a reference. It was a post, from an user.

Braiam

8:03 PM

@GabrielF yeah, but if I remove the link it doesn't answers the question...

RolandiXor

hi...

Thomas W.

@GabrielF Then you can specifically say "In an Ubuntu Forums post by [username there], this was suggested: [content of post]"

Braiam

your "answer" would be fit for a comment instead

Thomas W.

@GabrielF thereby giving attribution to the person. However, as I and @Braiam have said, if that thread on ubuntuforums.org gets deleted or hidden from the main view...

your "answer" can get deleted because the link is dead

and that question goes back to being unanswered.

Braiam

a complete answer is: I don't have to give another click to get my solution

Thomas W.

8:04 PM

^ that

RolandiXor

+1000

Thomas W.

and evidenced by @RolandiXor supporting my and Braiam's statements here, the mods agree with us

GabrielF

@ThomasW. in this specific case, yes, I agree... but on the blog post you used, for instance, I strongly disagree... the original author might be interested in getting page views from his tutorial and copying the content without authorization hurts that.

Thomas W.

so at this point we're beating a dead horse, you should include the key points from the thread you've linked in your answer.

RolandiXor

@GabrielF you do know your answer can be converted to a comment, especially if others flag it.

@GabrielF it's not our job to get people pageviews...

Thomas W.

8:05 PM

@GabrielF then let me call upon @JorgeCastro from the community team, who even SUGGESTED TO ME I include the points of the guide I used to answer that question on my answer

GabrielF

@RolandiXor I usually do put links on comment when they are not really answers, such as a reference to manual... but this was an answer.

Thomas W.

that's what got me the +500 not the link

GabrielF

As Oli said, and I agree, broken links can usually be fixed.

Thomas W.

and as @RolandiXor said, it is NOT our job to get pageviews

GabrielF

I'm talking about the original author's pageviews... not AU's..

Braiam

8:07 PM

@GabrielF but are a pain in the back going through all the answers to verify them, for that theres certain thing that I like to call prevention

I don't like to have problems in the future, I prevent them fror occurring in first place

Thomas W.

@GabrielF we don't have to care about pageviews

RolandiXor

@GabrielF yes, I know. And that is not our job.

Thomas W.

@GabrielF read @Roland's statement:

RolandiXor

You want page views? Use good tags and let Google do its job.

Thomas W.

3 mins ago, by RolandiXor

@GabrielF it's not our job to get people pageviews...

GabrielF

8:08 PM

I'm lost here... wait a minute.

Thomas W.

if you want to argue otherwise, and not put the content in your answer, then I'll be happy to add the content to your answer myself, with @Roland's approval and blessing because he's in agreement with what me and @Braiam are saying

RolandiXor

@ThomasW. be my guest :)

Braiam

I personally don't like that solution @ThomasW. (doing watch and that) seems like is prone to fail :/

GabrielF

I'll move my answer to a comment, if that's better. I'll not copy it because I didn't test it and it's not my solution... as I said, I'm not sharing knowledge, I'm sharing finding. But it did solve OP's problem.

RolandiXor

Okay

TBH I am trying to get stuff done, so dragging this out is a distraction atm :)

GabrielF

8:11 PM

Now, how can I do that? Delete and comment? hehe

RolandiXor

no, link me up :)

GabrielF

And as for the pageview's issue, we don't have to give him pageviews... but if we're using his work, I believe we should abide to whatever terms he chooses. And he might choose not to be copied.

@RolandiXor askubuntu.com/a/400213/169250

Braiam

okey... why wasn't this rejected as too minor?

GabrielF

What is minor?

Braiam

btw, the brand specific tags we said that we don't need them meta.askubuntu.com/a/7735/169736

Thomas W.

8:13 PM

@RolandiXor done

RolandiXor

@GabrielF thanks!

Thomas W.

@Braiam Nor do I however the point is that was "accepted" by the poster so improving it is OK

RolandiXor

@ThomasW. in light of his request, I'll rollback and convert to comment.

(sorry for the confusion)

Thomas W.

@RolandiXor ack

@RolandiXor happened after the fact :p

@RolandiXor note that IS the accepted answer

so you should comment to that extent that the request from the poster of the answer to convert to a comment means the question needs to be answered

RolandiXor

@ThomasW. hmm

before I act;

@GabrielF is it okay with you if I leave it as is?

GabrielF

8:16 PM

Yes, NP.

But I'm not here discussing this particular post... it's minor, really.

Thomas W.

so you're discussing the philosophy

which is a discussion better suited for meta

GabrielF

Yes.

RolandiXor

@ThomasW. this.

Thomas W.

but i think you'll find your "philosophy argument" is going to be shot down by the veteran editors

such as myself and @braiam

as well as the moderators, like @RolandiXor, who's been backing us up on this

FEichinger

cough cough Re: Bridge | Keep it low a bit, you two, will ya.

Thomas W.

8:19 PM

@RolandiXor in other news, that flag was annoying wasn't it

Braiam

hey @FEichinger, sup?

GabrielF

You know, that's not exactly what I would expect from the veteran editors... you seem so close minded... so close for discussion.

RolandiXor

@ThomasW. YES!

Thomas W.

@FEichinger sure. obligatory counter-request: your mods need to moderate things BEFORE the other mods elsewhere end up jumping in and sniping people because of misbehavior.

FEichinger

@Braiam We just had a rather weird cross-site episode ... Just saying ... Might wanna keep it low.

@ThomasW. To be fair, you guys were there before a lot of people even saw the flag ...

Thomas W.

8:21 PM

@FEichinger we're watching the flags queue. And @Roland is a diamondmod and gets pinged with ALL the flags everywhere

RolandiXor

@FEichinger you encountered me. That's all :)

Thomas W.

and my 11k+ rep gives me the flagnoitces too, @FEichinger

which is why we responded.

/me usually avoids the Bridge anyways

RolandiXor

I kinda got tired of having to attend to flags related to GnomeSlice...

They are almost always some random thing that we don't know what to do with.

GabrielF

Please don't be offended. But disencouraging discussion like this is so close minded.

Thomas W.

hey, i have a question, @FEichinger, why is it the last 3 flags I saw were ALWAYS in The Bridge?

FEichinger

8:21 PM

@RolandiXor There's no need to publicly chastise him and then keep going about it.

Thomas W.

is The Bridge prone to crap like that?

RolandiXor

Only in this case, it devolved into "F this, F that"

FEichinger

@ThomasW. Probably because the Bridge is the most active room.

Thomas W.

suggests heavier moderation on that room if it's the most active one

RolandiXor

If it is so prone, why is it always one guy?

Thomas W.

8:22 PM

^ that

FEichinger

Look, I'm not getting into this discussion with you guys. All I'm saying is that that was a bit too much.

RolandiXor

@FEichinger well, sorry, was having a bit of a drama filled day.

He wasn't the first.

Thomas W.

@RolandiXor this applies to me as well, drama-filled days are awful

RolandiXor

@FEichinger my apologies.

Braiam

@Tim please, we are trying to get rid of the brand specific tags... info

Thomas W.

8:23 PM

goes back to bug triage

FEichinger

(And the creeping on kalina was slightly too far for 'newcomers' to the Bridge, but that's a different thing.)

Anyway, just wanted to leave that here. Gone again.

RolandiXor

I just hope you realize... there is merit to being annoyed with the situation.

@FEichinger well... that room seems creepy every time I see it.

Not sure how we were any different.

BUT WHAT DO I KNOW?

I'm just always the 600lb Gorilla in the room :)

Thomas W.

@RolandiXor I think the CMs should reevaluate that room. And engage heavy moderation there, based on the room with the many other times I've seen crap and flags there.

but that's my opinion, and the CMs don't have to give a damn about what I say

RolandiXor

Who is about to return to desiging an icon in Inkscape before he gets himself into trouble with someone.

Thomas W.

@RolandiXor you?

RolandiXor

8:24 PM

@ThomasW. same here :)

Thomas W.

goes back to bug triage

@RolandiXor perhaps we should propose that to the CMs on meta.stackexchange's chat?

RolandiXor

(:

Thomas W.

in The Tavern?

FEichinger

People tend not to like it when other people tell them how to run their room. That's universally so for the network.

RolandiXor

@ThomasW. yesh

Tim

8:25 PM

@Braiam: ok, understood! Sorry.

RolandiXor

@FEichinger understood.

But people also don't like getting flags across the network from the same room, for the same guy, that seem not to make sense... ever.

Thomas W.

@RolandiXor this.

FEichinger

I fully agree that Gnome is getting flagged annoyingly frequently, but there's a certain point at which the chastising becomes too much.

Thomas W.

@FEichinger understood, but also what @RolandiXor says

RolandiXor

If you on that site know that you have a problem; deal with it.

And IIRC I didn't chastise him directly.

I was dealing moreso with those who are flagging, than with him.

Thomas W.

8:26 PM

I may have, but my day's been crap so i apologize

RolandiXor

I simply said, it is always the same guy.

Braiam

@Tim if you want to help, be sure to fix as many problems you see on the question ;). BTW, if it's asking about how to install the drivers use the software-installation tag, and is not your fault...

FEichinger

We are dealing with it: By flagging him and getting him suspended until he has learned his lesson. There's not much to do beyond that.

RolandiXor

Of course I can see how that was misconstrued as chastisement...

Thomas W.

@FEichinger long term suspension not an option?

RolandiXor

8:27 PM

@FEichinger my apologies for any trouble caused. JUST PLEASE; see it from both sides.

FEichinger

@ThomasW. Already happened before. Didn't solve the problem and it's not bad enough to do it permanently.

RolandiXor

(I for one do not like one sided views on situations).

FEichinger

@RolandiXor As I said, I do. I'm just thinking it was a bit too much, is all.

Thomas W.

@FEichinger I'd beg to differ, if the flags're all from the same guy, but meh, if we all cared, we'd poke the CMs to see what they say on it

RolandiXor

P.S. it diffused quickly... I think.

Thomas W.

8:28 PM

since it apparently seems cross-site-mods are arguing this

RolandiXor

But of course I am not familiar with the culture of that room so maybe two minutes is an eternity.

Thomas W.

same

anyways, i have three bugs I need to triage like, now, so... disappears

FEichinger

As I said, I'm just saying it was a bit too much. The general sentiment is completely valid.

RolandiXor

(and wrt Kalina - we've made fun here before... so... soishgoish'aoighsoighoiahg.... can't please everyone I guess)

@FEichinger got it.

FEichinger

(I'm well aware of that, hence just a passing remark :P)

Braiam

8:29 PM

@ThomasW. want help? :P

FEichinger

Anyway, out of here again.

RolandiXor

I need to impose a self time out - so heading back to Inkscape. (Ping me if needed).

Thomas W.

@Braiam Nope, all good.

@Braiam they're nginx bugs anyways

Seth

Anyone running 12.04 still?

Hmm. Trying to decide if I should ping Roland...

Seems like he wouldn't like that joke this time.

Thomas W.

@Seth yeah i am why

Seth

8:35 PM

@ThomasW. Can you tell me if these settings exist?

(see comments on my answer)

Thomas W.

@Seth there is no "unity" settings category under com->canonical in 12.04

there's unity-2d though

Seth

Huh.

Could you figure out where that key is then?

Or if it exists?

(dconf watch / then change the setting in System Settings)

Thomas W.

@Seth doesn't exist, that's not an option

their window isn't 12.04, i don't think 12.04 ever had external searching

Seth

Ah. That's silly since the guy is complaining about it lol.

Thomas W.

@Seth lemme screenshot

Seth

8:41 PM

Awesome.

Thomas W.

@Seth ^ the window THEY have doesn't match 12.04

I don't think "Search Results" ever existed in 12.04, i think that was a 12.10 addition

but IDK i may have removed a package

/me checks

Seth

This is getting weirder and weirder...

Thomas W.

@Seth is that to hide Amazon shopping results or something?

because the shopping lens wasn't in until Quantal

Seth

@ThomasW. I think that's pretty much it.

Thomas W.

@Seth they're not on Precise then

@Seth that lens wasn't available until Quantal

Seth

8:45 PM

Okay. Well that was silly.

Thanks for all the help @ThomasW. :)

Thomas W.

you're welcome

Seth

Complaining that they removed it, and it makes him mad, less privacy, blah blah, when he doesn't even have it yet xD

Thomas W.

@Seth you can tell him stock 12.04 doesn't have the privacy issue since the shopping lens isn't even available for Precise, and his rant is useless.

Seth

@ThomasW. That's essentially what I told him.

Thomas W.

you can tell him that i tested and confirmed this.

jrg

8:52 PM

HAH! Best nmap yet - it thinks my VMWare server is FreeBSD 5.4 more than it thinks its VMWare.

Braiam

err.. how it's called the scanner utility? sane? xsane?

jrg

@Braiam xsane

sane is the library

(as i recall)

Seth

the lack of information here is appalling.

-1

Q: I installed ubuntu, but it doesn't boot along with windows

I have installed ubuntu alongside windows. But its doesn't throw me option at reboot. PC gets booted by windows by default. Tried 3 times... not working

bootloader

Braiam

okey

Seth

@jrg lol. I've seen some funny stuff with nmap too.

Whoa, easy on the downvotes people, it doesn't need that many.

jrg

8:54 PM

@Seth close second is it tried to guess my Windows 7 box as a Ubuntu 8.04 server

Seth

@jrg Okay, that is HILARIOUS.

jrg

I had to think long and hard about that one.

Seth

rotfl

Braiam

@Seth how much is many? you said "We really need to vote more, people!" ;)

Seth

@Braiam -3 is, IMO, too many for a newbie question that is just unclear.

Braiam

8:58 PM

wait, something is happening in the bridge

Seth

@Braiam Now if you asked that question, I don't think -3 is too many. You should know better, but he?

Braiam

meh, I'm amused that it's still open

Ask Ubuntu Meta

0

Q: How to tag questions asking for drivers?

History. As part of making the tags useful and somewhat rational, I've found myself in a problem with the questions that asks how to install certain drivers. The problem is that they have tried nothing (apt-get, dpkg, etc.) and their problems are: Don't find the drivers Don't know how to insta...

discussion tags

GabrielF

9:40 PM

@ThomasW., @Braiam, @RolandiXor Just thought I should get back to you regarding my issue. It seems like quoting content from the web in the way you suggested is ok, by means of fair use (see this). I would like to thank you for your time and patience. I'll make my answers more suited to the SE's policy.

RolandiXor

=)

Oli

10:07 PM

@ThomasW. I think my wording is okay. It's not a black and white issue. A link-only answer is better than nothing and verbatim copying (even small chunks) can really rile up copyright holders (fair use is not black and white either). That's why the auto-comment talks about "preferable". This answer (that used to be a LOA) is now a [likely] walking, talking copyright infringement.

I've just read your next message and no, attribution is not enough. Either a demonstration at an attempt at fair use (partial use, abbreviation, transformation, etc) or a very permissive license (and that being adhered to) are they only acceptable terms for copying.

Alvar

10:23 PM

askubuntu.com/q/402446/10698 move this to meta!

it's not unclear...

Seth

Moved.

@RolandiXor Here we go again: meta.askubuntu.com/questions/8053/…

RolandiXor

e_e

Nuked from orbit.

Seth

I knew he wouldn't get it.

I think we need something other than nukes now..

You mods can message users right?

Braiam

@Alvar we don't migrate crap to meta :P

Alvar

@Braiam haha

move it and close it as a dupe

Seth

10:32 PM

We don't leave it on main to confuse people either.

Alvar

@Braiam we got crap answers on normal

Braiam

but... meta is the only site that reject out stuff...

Seth

@Braiam that's because it's usually a duplicate or a rant. We don't leave meta dupes on main, nor do we leave meta dupes on main.

Again:

0

Q: Why u keep blocking me from stackexchange? I need to chat

I'm always the one from Sri Lanka..please let me chat on here. Thanks.

chat

@MarcoCeppi @RolandiXor --^

@Braiam btw, were'd you get that?

Alvar

why do you need to chat?

don't get it

and how does being from sri lanka become a reason to chat?

Seth

@Alvar Supposedly he wants to report some "exploit".

though he doesn't know how this site works at all.

Braiam

10:41 PM

@Seth 10 k awesomesauce ;)

Seth

@Braiam I knew you would say that.

oh, here's a mint question: askubuntu.com/q/402450/44179

Braiam

@Seth we have the chat tag??????????????????????//////slash

Seth

@Braiam On meta.. but it seems we have a main one too >.>

Alvar

@Braiam well a chat tag makes sense ;)

on main it's for empathy and all those

Seth

It does not make sense!

If it's an empathy problem, use the empathy tag.

Alvar

10:44 PM

it does

Braiam

@Alvar for empathy we have a a empathy tag ¬_¬

for pidgin we have pidgin tag...

Seth

@Alvar It's was too general.

Alvar

but if it's a software recomendation foR chat programs what then?

WHAT THEN?

Seth

software recommendation perhaps?

Braiam

@Alvar software-recommendation ¬_¬

@Seth up arrow FTW!

Alvar

10:45 PM

TOLD YOU IT WASN'T TOOOOOOOO GENERAL!

yes I'm mad.

Braiam

@Alvar chat tag is too general, software recommendation isn't...

Seth

Uhh.. how does that not make it too general?

Alvar

omg

it tells you what program it's recommending ;)

Seth

O_o

Braiam

@Alvar err.... WHAT?

but a tag for a single question is overkill...

Alvar

10:47 PM

why do we have a browser tag then? askubuntu.com/questions/tagged/browser same problem.

Braiam

and that tag is potentially misused...

Alvar

all tags are potentially misused.

Seth

we don't need a browser tag either

Alvar

then remove it!

and correct my thoughts!

sorry, been trolling too little today...

Seth

@Alvar I can't remove a tag with over 300 questions..

Alvar

10:49 PM

@Seth uhm u just said it was pointless....

Seth

Oh my word. We have a sync tag too.

Braiam

How do I use skype script to record voice

Alvar

askubuntu.com/questions/tagged/chat

Seth

@Alvar Yes, but how am I supposed to remove the tag? Retag all 300 questions manually?

Braiam

^madness

Alvar

10:49 PM

@Seth can't community do anything on it's own? (:

it's a bot after all...

Seth

@Alvar nope :-/

Even mods can't burn a tag.

Alvar

-.-

oh right only SE personal can blacklist a tag right?

Seth

blacklist != burn, but that is correct.

Braiam

@Seth want to bounty this again? meta.stackoverflow.com/q/124504/213575

Alvar

hehe...

Braiam

10:51 PM

wait, don't!

they are going to fix the tags system, but the usage is our problem...

so, let face it, tags sucks and dealing with that is hard.. since you can't fix stupidity

RolandiXor

@Seth :'(

Alvar

what does community do? except from editing questions once a month?

RolandiXor

What can we do to block this man?

Sorry for the late reply btw.

Braiam

@Alvar wants to be my partner me for 10 questions to remove the chat/text tag?

Alvar

@Braiam sure. yolo.

RolandiXor

10:55 PM

@Seth yeah we can message users, but messaging him didn't work.

He is a persistent troll.

I don't know what to do anymore...

Nathan Osman

o/

RolandiXor

@NathanOsman \o

Alvar

@RolandiXor NUKE HIM! NUKE HIM INTO THE GROUND.

sry....

FlackBot

o/

RolandiXor

That ought to do it.

@FlackBot \o

Alvar

10:58 PM

@FlackBot can't u do anything useful? Like untaging questions?

@braiam u edited this and didn't remove chat tag! askubuntu.com/q/302406/10698

FlackBot

No, I cannot do that.

Nathan Osman

@FlackBot Actually, yes you can.

Braiam

> edited Nov 22 '13 at 15:15

FlackBot

@NathanOsman Actually, no I cannot.

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