Game Development

@Skyl3r For example, being more abstract has the advantage that the next game you make is easier to write. But is that an advantage for you? Does it outweigh the fact that it also takes more time to write

Skyl3r

@Tyyppi_77, I see.

user92578

1:36 PM

@UriPopov Why would you upvote that ._.

Jon

it made him laugh

it was deemed useful to him

Kevin van der Velden

After all, having an abstract engine for 2d sidescrollers doesn't help you at all if you then want to make a 3d RPG

user92578

> "This question shows research effor; it is useful and clear or it made you LoL"

user92578

forgot about that tooltip

Jon

i didn't make the rules

Uri Popov

1:38 PM

@Skyl3r I'm currently the CTO of a startup and in my opinion its better to build up the code base and tools alongside a fast/sloppy/bad code prototype while looking for investors. When we get the investor moneyz and build a good team of coders, we can start using the existing code base and write good code. If you want to make a game with no investors and just your and other peoples time as a investment then by all means go for faster developing.

Jon

i think you need to code fast first

get a prototype up

user92578

^

Jon

oh i'm also CTO

and owner

Kevin van der Velden

@UriPopov another great point of view. I hope you can see why ti's so opinion based now @Skyl3r =p

Uri Popov

@Tyyppi_77 I explained why in my comment. Its Friday 5pm I'm at work and found that funny.

Leggy7

1:39 PM

holy christ, unity is not thread safe and it don't let me use the most things on thread != main thread

Skyl3r

@KevinvanderVelden I've seen numerous places say things along the lines of "If a startup doesn't release it's project within the first 6 months then it is likely to fail"

user92578

@UriPopov I hope you also flagged it

user92578

@UriPopov You do realize you're feeding the trolls, right?

Kevin van der Velden

@Skyl3r sure, but what if you're not a startup =p

Skyl3r

I specify in the question that it is a team/business and this is the first project with no prior income

Uri Popov

1:41 PM

@Tyyppi_77 somebody has to feed them from time to time. Do you want to be responsible for the mass extinction of the internet troll ? I dont.

user92578

I would love to

Jon

@Skyl3r get a prototype up

see if it is fun

focus on core gameplay mechanics

Matt Jens Jensen

@Skyl3r It took our startup 8 months and we raised a few million

... then failed

Kevin van der Velden

@UriPopov I would love to be responsible for that

Jon

you can write a prototype in a day -- you can take a year to polish it

Skyl3r

1:42 PM

@Jon I doubt I'll be writing this in a day

Uri Popov

@MattJensJensen i know what you mean. We are about to either get our first seed of 400k in two weeks or fail.

Jon

If you want some help in the prototyping stages I can help you break it down

I am literally a prototyper

Matt Jens Jensen

@UriPopov 400k seed? really?

Skyl3r

@Jon our project has been in development for 4 months or so. I'd estimate 50% completion

Matt Jens Jensen

Is that an additional seed?

Uri Popov

1:44 PM

@MattJensJensen not sure if its called a seed or not. A investment fund will give it to us. I dont handle the biz parts, too busy with the tech.

Jon

fair enough

so you must have a playable product already

Skyl3r

I'm not sure we need help, but then again I'm asking the question, so maybe we do

Alexandre Vaillancourt

Hello ppl from the Internet!

Matt Jens Jensen

It's a huge seed or a smaller series A

user92578

hii

Matt Jens Jensen

1:45 PM

hey babe

Skyl3r

@Jon if by playable you mean most of the mechanics are in order.

DH.

Hi Alexandre

Jon

how many people are working on it ?

Uri Popov

@Skyl3r you far beyond the stage where you need to decide what you are asking in your question. Get the project done and in a playable state. Start selling it/making money. If you actually do manage to make money then invest time/money in fixing its code up to standarts.

Jon

And can we see? screenshot?

user92578

1:46 PM

^

Skyl3r

@Jon, 2 developers and a sales/business guy

Honestly it's basically just me developing. The other guy is gonna get canned before long.

Jon

Can of Worm.

Skyl3r

@UriPopov that seems to be the overwhelming response I'm getting

@Jon Out of pure interest, why a screenshot?

Uri Popov

I've been the solo developer for 3 months at the new company now. I've seen my own coding standards go down the toilet. When I right something now and look at it to review it I just say to myself: Who cares, nobody is going to see it. Does it work ? Does it hinder performance? No. NO. good ship it out.

Jon

A video then?

gif?

Skyl3r

1:50 PM

@jon, let me see if I have anything accessible right now.

Matt Jens Jensen

@UriPopov Always write your best code, or future you will hate you for it

Skyl3r

@UriPopov, I'm the solo developer for the company (non-game development company) that I work for currently and I feel the same way haha

Matt Jens Jensen

It's a terrible trap to fall into, even when time is of the essense

Jon

Always code as if the person who ends up maintaining your code is a violent psychopath who knows where you live.

9

Skyl3r

Due to the expectation that I would have another body working with me, I've put a lot of time into abstraction thus far so it's easier for him to work with.

Matt Jens Jensen

1:52 PM

One day I was working through the project and decided I wasn't happy with the codebase, took the last six months of work out of Objective C and put it into Swift with the best design I could possibly think of in two weeks. I was so satisfied

Uri Popov

@MattJensJensen I know, but that is future me's problem. At least i keep naming conventions and everything I right has a clear purpose to it. No magic or dragons. If I need to extend something or fix a bug I dont get lost in the spaghetti jungle. Btw spaghetti is hard to write I just realized that .

Matt Jens Jensen

@UriPopov mom's spaghetti

Eminem - "Mom's Spaghetti" (Music Video)

►

Uri Popov

Knees weak ,arms are heavy

Jon

arms spaghetti

Matt Jens Jensen

the crowd goes spaghetti

you only get one spaghetti

Uri Popov

1:54 PM

does anyone have good stories about inheriting bad code ? I once had to maintain a Ipad driving sim made by some spanish outsourcing firm and they had the best spaghetti code I've seen.

Matt Jens Jensen

I inheritied a python codebase written by a guy whose only programming experience was lisp

DH.

I think everybody at least once needed to work on an already existing bad code

Jon

i had to work with an interesting project once

Matt Jens Jensen

He used future import { }

DH.

lol, seeing a ton of car in python should be interesting

Jon

1:55 PM

they had hacked Microsoft Word into a win32 app

altering the word doc

Skyl3r

I got a service call database application. It was the guys first time using VB.Net and there's about 6 files each with 1500+ lines of code.

Matt Jens Jensen

@Jon that's pure evil

Jon

well... the entire app had a dependency on what version of Word you had installed on your PC

So that is all you really need to know

I'm hoping that was trashed a long time ago, lol

Matt Jens Jensen

I saw a windows up that shipped with every system dll

Every single dll was included in the app

from windows XP

Alexandre Vaillancourt

@MattJensJensen Did you call me 'babe'?

Uri Popov

1:58 PM

@MattJensJensen the client probably wanted it to run on a empty box :D

Jon

yeah i was like, whats with the babe?

Matt Jens Jensen

@AlexandreVaillancourt oh. I did?

DH.

You did

It was weird

Jon

Peter principle

The Peter principle is a concept in management theory formulated by Laurence J. Peter in which the selection of a candidate for a position is based on the candidate's performance in their current role, rather than on abilities relevant to the intended role. Thus, employees only stop being promoted once they can no longer perform effectively, and "managers rise to the level of their incompetence." == Overview == The Peter principle is a special case of an ubiquitous observation: Anything that works will be used in progressively more challenging applications until it fails. This is the "generalized...

DH.

But there are a few weirdos here, do I don't care

Matt Jens Jensen

2:00 PM

I call it art

Alexandre Vaillancourt

@MattJensJensen Please don't do it again :)

Matt Jens Jensen

@AlexandreVaillancourt absolutely

Uri Popov

What do you guys think is a correct proposition of artist and coders for medium projects.

Matt Jens Jensen

Proposition?

Do you mean proposal?

As in compensation?

Uri Popov

Fuck auto correct on this browser. I wanted to say Proportion

Jon

2:03 PM

1 art, 1 code

depending on the game... more art or more code

if you have an art heavy game, you are gonna want way more coders

Uri Popov

an art heavy game = more coders ?

Matt Jens Jensen

You might want to pull a Jblow

Jon

</sarcasm>

Matt Jens Jensen

Program, design, and do programmer art and build your game, then bring on artists to make it beautiful

Jon

that is what I think is the better way to do it with a tight budget

have everythign ready to be "skinned" so to say

Matt Jens Jensen

2:05 PM

Or become an artist yourself

It's a skill that can be learned like anything else

No one will know your tastes like you will

Uri Popov

I'm good with coding thanks.

Jon

he is saying you can do it all

PearsonArtPhoto

My working plan is to build my game using programmer art, then when the game is ready for something more, take it to Kickstarter.

Matt Jens Jensen

You can do anything Uri

PearsonArtPhoto

I'll have a plan that is basically "You decide how good this game will be".

Almo

2:06 PM

@UriPopov but that XKCD comic is so correct, we have to bring it up whenever people in a privately-owned chatroom complain about free speech rights.

DH.

Or be like Legend of Iya

Be an artist for decades and learn to code

PearsonArtPhoto

For $1000, it will be released to steam without any major improvements.

For $5000, I'll study art and make it better.

DH.

Then you can make your game beautiful and good at the same time by yourself

PearsonArtPhoto

For $10000, I'll bring in an artist, etc.

Jon

lmao

for 20,000 i'll travel to barbadoes and study art

Matt Jens Jensen

2:07 PM

Is there such a thing as long distance delivery? That'd be a great startup

Almo

Jon is an ace prototyper

Uri Popov

@Almo i did not complain about free speech I said almost the same thing as the comic. He can say what he wants but then he gets banned for saying bad things. It's his right to say it it's our right as a community to make him leave if we dont like it .

Leggy7

@Jon if you add 1k, I'm coming too

Almo

I wasn't saying you were complaining about it

PearsonArtPhoto

The $10000 is a guess, I'll get a few quotes before setting up the campaign.

Almo

2:07 PM

I said "when there are complaints"

Leggy7

I am really afraid of kickstarter visibility

Almo

someone else might have been implying you were complaining :)

Leggy7

If I would rely on it, I think chances are that I will face a bad time

Almo

jackhammer noise worse today

Skyl3r

It really depends on how much art you have in your game.

Almo

2:08 PM

like 3 of em

Jon

4 art

hey, where is our gifs?

Skyl3r

For $10,000 your game better be amazing

Uri Popov

@Almo I dont know any mroe. I'm stuck trying to figure out what I might be missing from the virtual banking system I just created and my head hurts.

Skyl3r

@jon, What is showing art gonna do?

Matt Jens Jensen

$10,000 is actually very little to pay someone for most things

PearsonArtPhoto

2:09 PM

I'm of course talking about the total sum, not the individual contributions.

Leggy7

if I need to code 3 more months 10k is what I aim to achieve :'(

Jon

so you don't want to show it i guess

Leggy7

or i'll go to unload trucks for supermarkets

Jon

nevermind

and geee, ehhh, I dunno, we are a room full of game developers

PearsonArtPhoto

And honestly, I suspect getting the GD would be more like a $20K proposition.

Almo

2:10 PM

@UriPopov virtual banking system?

what you mean

Jon

Might be good to get some free feedback :P

PearsonArtPhoto

But I really have no idea.

Uri Popov

@Jon how much to prototype a mobile Tycoon game with a MMO style virtual economy ?

Matt Jens Jensen

protip: do software consulting for $400/hour during the week to pay for your game

4

You only have to land a few projects a year to keep yourself afloat

Jon

@UriPopov if you are serious, send me the details

Uri Popov

2:10 PM

@Almo I mean there is a bank in the game players can use. Like a real life bank. But in the game hence virtual

Jon

I'll let you know what I think it will take me to get a quick prototype up

PearsonArtPhoto

LOL, the real protip in there is how to get a $400/hour software consulting job.

Skyl3r

@Jon, I'd rather not and I don't have any of my development stuff on this computer.

Matt Jens Jensen

It's easier than you'd think

It's easier to get paid $400/hour than $25

Jon

If you are taking it online with dedicated servers, it is not going to be cheap.

Uri Popov

2:11 PM

@Jon I was planning to do it myself I was just asking for a ballpark figure so I can harass my CEO with it.

Jon

I can do the portion without net code for a lot cheaper

the issue here is, there is going to be a lot of backend code

And it sounds like it would be a long enough project, considering the MMO aspect.

And everyone is annoying me to finish Gorb

DH.

Gorb first, other projects later

You even have a subreddit about it, cmon Jon

PearsonArtPhoto

^

Jon

you hear the sound preview I posted?

DH.

Probably missed that

Matt Jens Jensen

2:15 PM

@PearsonArtPhoto Also, just saying, people are willing to pay a lot of money to protect their privacy and money, if you do security and IT consulting it's easy to pull a good rate

Jon

jgallant.com/files/sndfx.flv

This was my first attempt at making sounds for the game.. made it all in my top of the line recording studio

Matt Jens Jensen

@Jon That's actually really good

Jon

My kid liked it so that test passed

user92578

Yup, sounds a lot better than my sounds

Almo

good start

PearsonArtPhoto

2:18 PM

Actually, after I've been at my current job for a bit longer, I have a pretty decent chance of getting some kind of a defense consulting job.

I don't do security or IT, so...

Uri Popov

Gorb looks fun

Matt Jens Jensen

I didn't do security or IT until I got plastered at defcon

Jon

:D it is man

wanna play a buggy build?

Uri Popov

@MattJensJensen I would love to go to defcon just to get drunk with a bunch of hackers.

Jon

wake up naked in a ditch

anarchy signs drawn all over you

Matt Jens Jensen

2:19 PM

That sounds equally fun

user92578

Uri Popov

with all my ports ravaged right :D

user92578

I added speech bubbles to cutscenes

Matt Jens Jensen

mein gott

user92578

(There's a small bug with the commander hitbox size, resulting in weird bubble positioning)

Matt Jens Jensen

2:20 PM

Tyyppi, it reminds me of McPixel

William Mariager

YOU HAVEN'T PLAYED MARIO ...

Jon

user92578

I don't need to, I'm just that good :)

Matt Jens Jensen

mario is actually a great design case study

Uri Popov

@Tyyppi_77 I was thinking he was shouting because the box was higher. Call it a feature not a bug :D

user92578

2:21 PM

lol :D

DH.

There's no excuse to not play Mario

I made my sister play Mario, and she is 15 yo

Uri Popov

@DH. what if you are a blind person with no arms ?

William Mariager

@UriPopov Game has sound.

Jon

No excuse to NOT play, therefore there are excuses to play.

William Mariager

Tongue controller.

Jon

2:23 PM

Uri Popov

Blind,Deaf person with no arms and microcephaly

Jon

Great plot study for games

user92578

lol

Matt Jens Jensen

Buy now button broken

Losing my mind

William Mariager

@MattJensJensen Awesome cropping ...

DH.

2:26 PM

It's just like, doubled

Matt Jens Jensen

@WilliamMariager I just realized I cropped the layer to selection not the entire layerset

Almo

@DH. except it's not really much fun

DH.

It's a really good platformer

Tons of enemies, tons of levels

Almo

Agreed. I don't like most platformers. :)

William Mariager

You don't get a say Almo. You grew up with sticks and barrels as toys ...

Jon

2:27 PM

anyone ever play Halloween Harry?

user92578

OWNED OMG REKT LOLZ

Jon

William Mariager

That's a peculiar response to Halloween Harry.

Jon

it was renamed to alien carnage, because people thought it was a halloween themed game

DH.

The only Alien game I remember playing was Contra 3: Alien Wars

Jon

2:29 PM

I beat that game

Almo

AvsP on Jaguar. not bad game, great atmospherics.

DH.

Contra was insane

Ofc I was just a kid when I played that so I didn't have the skillz

But still really difficult

Almo

also the N controllers sucked.

same game, same age, probably easier with a modern controller.

still hard though

Matt Jens Jensen

I just found a classic game with the best soundtrack I've ever heard scratch.mit.edu/projects/98111610/#fullscreen

10/10 -IGN

Jon

Here is one for you @MattJensJensen

waitinginline3d.com

Matt Jens Jensen

2:33 PM

@Jon waiting in the TSA line

Uri Popov

I managed to kill myself in 8 seconds

Matt Jens Jensen

Press shift until it turns into erotic fiction

Jon

Let's Play Ancient Greek Punishment

Stupid sold out 1080

@Noctrine Sold out?

2:40 PM

hmm I wonder for how long can you actually play the Half-Way part.

Matt Jens Jensen

Founders edition too?

Noctrine

Yeah, everywhere I check.

Matt Jens Jensen

Oh well, I'm sure ABMs will be out soon

Noctrine

Going to have to wait till more of the founders cards are released - or until other manufacturers produce them.

Matt Jens Jensen

Founders cards don't look that great

Jon

2:41 PM

I think the point is that every game never ends.

Matt Jens Jensen

I always go for a EVGA board

Jon

I always go for ASUS

Matt Jens Jensen

@Jon why so?

Jon

you cannot beat ASUS at what they do best, motherboards

Uri Popov

@Jon wont the floating point number mess up at one point ? The other games you can just repeat the action but in this one they show a number on the screen and it has to get infinitely close to 100, so at some point it will not be correct.

Jon

2:44 PM

@UriPopov it would eventually be 0

but the real answer is that it will infinitely approach 0 but never reach it

Matt Jens Jensen

@Jon if it were real math

Jon

in terms of a float, yeah it will eventually reach 0

Uri Popov

thus making the game wrong since you will not be able to continue to travel half the remaining length for ever.

Matt Jens Jensen

@Jon ASUS does make good mobos, but their GPU boards have their flaws

Jon

ah, I like their GPU boards, they get rated well

Matt Jens Jensen

2:47 PM

I've had three ASUS boards DOA

So I just have a paranoia towards them

NaCl

@Jon The Zeno one is great

Jon

I have a Asus Strix right now

Matt Jens Jensen

The only time I've had a EVGA part DOA was a power supply, but I accidentlly went for the wrong model and it wasn't a 80+ gold

Jon

super quiet

Matt Jens Jensen

I gotta give it to you, the Strix is a beautiful idea from ASUS

Jon

2:48 PM

I had issues with Gigabyte in the past.. so I stay away from them

motherboard I bought got a revision

because it was flawed.. so I was stuck with rev1.0

Matt Jens Jensen

Gigabyte is a budget brand from all that I've experienced

Jon

Yeah, they are pretty low quality from my experience as well

So I do not use them at all anymore, for anything

Matt Jens Jensen

Right now I have an MSI mobo, EVGA GPUs, EVGA PSU, and Corsair RAM

Sie

@MattJensJensen Oh god that reminds me. I spent way too much on my PSU when trying to troubleshoot an issue.

Matt Jens Jensen

@Sie What happened?

Sie

2:52 PM

I was so fucking dumb. I forgot to install the standoffs and I'm lucky I didn't fry my mobo.

Matt Jens Jensen

Oh! Shorts?

Sie

Thankfully no and no problems. I could have just doa'ed it to be safe but I would have felt bad doing that.

Jon

Corsair is pretty awesome

Matt Jens Jensen

I bought a redundant PSU one time and found out that the reseller had forgot to mention that it was a refurbished unit and I looked inside and saw the most half-assed soldering shorting out two pins on a mains side capacitor

Jon

Asus mobo and GPU, Antec PSU, g.skill ram because Corsair was sold out when I did my build and I just settled for what was on sale

Matt Jens Jensen

2:55 PM

@Jon G.Skill high five

It's still good

Sie

lol I still have my old G.Skill ram inside my current build.

Matt Jens Jensen

I picked up Corsair Vengence SPX

Jon

I got a corsair case though :)

Sie

They make cases? I thought they mostly made internals.

Jon

heh, they make keyboards, mice, cases, etc.

Matt Jens Jensen

2:57 PM

Corsair cases are pretty good

I have a server in a Corsair and my main rig in a Phanteks

Jon

they have low budget cases too

which are not really great... I like full metal cases

Sie

@Tyyppi_77 Glad you like it. Ya I probably should animate that button. Well the whole style behind the game is supposed to imitate a world that is made nearly entirely out of paper. Problem is this environment is a lab setting and short of just using a boring old paper texture for the walls I'm not sure. Perhaps I could maybe make it look like cardboard walls? idk.

Jon

I have 2 full metal cases.. I opted for a smaller mid tower for this one

My full tower is just friggen huge

Matt Jens Jensen

I wanted a bigger full tower

Jon