Game Development

12:13 AM

I tried the Win10 preview a few months ago.... it did not like my Xbox 360 controller drivers, had to do a system restore thing, and it deleted a lot of personal files that had nothing to do with the operating system, was absolutely stupid

Jon

Sup Chris

Chris

My C# conversion was a success. 4-second compile times now

MickLH

@IcyDefiance im selfless, sorry lol

Hjorthenify

:o

@Chris Nice!

Jon

Optimoz

Chris

12:20 AM

also need a coffee, was up til 6am this morning churning through it lol

only noon atm

Jon

Optimizing is an artform

MickLH

^

Hjorthenify

Its 2:30 am here D:

Stopped programming 20 min ago.. I should sleep

MickLH

Yeah do that, sleep. You get "rollover minutes" on that lol

Hjorthenify

:P

ClassicThunder

2:20 AM

Is there a licence that is basically do wtf ever you want except you have to credit the original author if you use or modify it?

Chris

maybe the MIT License? Just have to include the license. opensource.org/licenses/MIT

ClassicThunder

Basically I want the MIT but with the requirement that if you make money off of it you have to notify of the product that is doing so.

I ran into this with my GUI library where I know it has been used in a modified form is released games but I don't know which ones and the people wouldn't tell me.

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

2:48 AM

> Your order from Exploding Kittens is shipping soon!

Wee!

Chris

nice

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

Also, I just got the yearling badge for the fourth time.

Chris

that's not as cool as exploding kittens though

Chris

3:05 AM

far out, what a stupid Unity bug. Mac OS X, build a simple test scene, app freezes. yet put in this code:

void OnGUI() {
    GUI.contentColor = new Color(0f, 0f, 0f, 0f);
    GUILayout.Label ("Test");
}

and tada, the app no longer freezes

outstanding since May. my game doesn't freeze luckily, but yeah just testing a small build of another test game thing, freezes on Mac, sigh @ Unity

Aidan Mueller

3:43 AM

@TheMuffinCoder That depends on what you mean by "special".

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

Why is it Windows Defender insists on ignoring my instructions?!

Three files are falsely detected as malware

I tell it, the files are okay, please ignore them

A few minutes later "Windows has detected harmful files"

Chris

:(

Aidan Mueller

"Windows has detected a harmful file: System32"

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

4:00 AM

There's a file named System32? :P

Here I was thinking it was a directory :P

Aidan Mueller

"Folder"*

Meant folder.

Get those two mixed up.

Aychoteedubyooeyeareehotwiredotcom

Lokkij

9:31 AM

MS Paint Adventures is fun

Also, we got the hexagons back! :D

Chris

are these like, linear adventures and drawings?

Hjorthenify

Yes

@William'MindWorX'Mariager Why on earth are you up that early?!

Jon

9:55 AM

forum.unity3d.com/threads/…

Jesus Christ

@Jon Gosh, Xamarin studio looks like Xcode

Jon

xamarin studio is not that actually, that is monodevelop

but yeah

it has an apple feel to it

(was built on monodevelop, obviously)

user92578

Hi

Jesus Christ

I hate everything about Mac and Xcode. It is slow, dumb, deployment takes eternity, refactoring sucks, I just hate it.

@Tyyppi_77 hi

Jon

hate leads to suffering

Jesus Christ

10:02 AM

Lol, I'm already suffering)

Xcode killing me

Jon

Then you are on the path to the dark side, my young apprentice

Jesus Christ

I'm already on the dark side

@Jon I was supposed to be a Win developer. To bring a balance to the force. But instead I became an iOS dev, the apologist of the dark side.

Chris

haha

I loathe all platforms equally

Jesus Christ

user92578

Has someone here implemented bisection?

Hjorthenify

10:20 AM

Depends on the graph

user92578

I'm trying to solve a function like this: f(t) := cubic_bezier(0, x1, x2, 1, t) - x

user92578

And I think that I can implement the actual algorithm pretty easily

Hjorthenify

Then no

user92578

But the problem is finding the starting interval

Hjorthenify

Wiki says such operation is slow

How often are you gonna calculate it?

user92578

10:23 AM

I'd guess it's faster than solving this:

user92578

Hjorthenify

I guess :P

Why do you need to solve t?

user92578

For getting the Y value for a X coordinate

Hjorthenify

Aha

Martin Sojka

@Tyyppi_77 This looks scarier than it is. Most of the terms (like -54 b^3 + a (162 b^2 - 108 b + 18) + 54 b^2 - 18 b + a^2 (54 - 162 b) + 54 a^3 +2) repeat themselves a lot.

user92578

10:27 AM

Actually I'm not sure if that's even the one

user92578

Oh wait it's the correct one

user92578

@MartinSojka Are you saying that I shouldn't use bisection for this?

Martin Sojka

@Tyyppi_77 I'm saying that the solution looks nice and simple to me.

user92578

Well as a mathematical approach

user92578

However solving that in my game doesn't seem like a nice process

Martin Sojka

10:43 AM

Did you try doing it (after factoring out the common terms like the one above into temporary variables) and profiling the results?

user92578

I haven't tried either one yet

user92578

Translating that into running C++ code wasn't that tempting

user92578

Monty Python's Ministry of Silly Walks (Full Sketch)

►

Ali.S

@Tyyppi_77 actually it's not that hard at all

since that beizier equations is basically a quartic function, and there is closed formula, giving all the roots of quartic function

Quartic function

In mathematics, a quartic function, is a function of the form where a is nonzero, which is defined by a polynomial of degree four, called quartic polynomial. Sometimes the term biquadratic is used instead of quartic, but, usually, biquadratic function refers to a quadratic function of a square (or, equivalently, to the function defined by a quartic polynomial without terms of odd degree), having the form A quartic equation, or equation of the fourth degree, is an equation that equates a quartic polynomial to zero, of the form where a ≠ 0. The derivative of a quartic function is a cubic function...

Hjorthenify

Ooooo genius!

Pip

10:57 AM

morning GDSE

Ali.S

morning

Hjorthenify

Morning Pip

Pip

I seemed to be missing two letters :P

Ali.S

@Pip who cares? you miss more than just two letters

user92578

This?

user92578

10:59 AM

Quartic function

In mathematics, a quartic function, is a function of the form where a is nonzero, which is defined by a polynomial of degree four, called quartic polynomial. Sometimes the term biquadratic is used instead of quartic, but, usually, biquadratic function refers to a quadratic function of a square (or, equivalently, to the function defined by a quartic polynomial without terms of odd degree), having the form A quartic equation, or equation of the fourth degree, is an equation that equates a quartic polynomial to zero, of the form where a ≠ 0. The derivative of a quartic function is a cubic function...

Hjorthenify

Yup

I've calculated those before

user92578

But I'm not interested in all the roots

user92578

Just a single one that we calculated a formula for yesterday

Hjorthenify

I wasn't following yesterday. What root is it that you are interested in?

user92578

(-((sqrt(3)*%i+1)*((3*b-3*a-1)*sqrt((9*b^2+((-18)*a-6)*b+9*a^2+6*a+1)*x^2
+((-4)*b^3+6*a*b^2+(6*a^2+6*a)*b+(-4)*a^3+(-12)*a^2)*x+(-3)*a^2*b^2+4*a^3)+
((-9)*b^2+(18*a+6)*b+(-9)*a^2+(-6)*a-1)*x+2*b^3+(-3)*a*b^2+((-3)*a^2-3*a)*b+2*a^3+6*a^2)^(2/3)+
(2^(7/3)*a-2^(4/3)*b)*((3*b-3*a-1)*sqrt((9*b^2+((-18)*a-6)*b+9*a^2+6*a+1)*x^2+
((-4)*b^3+6*a*b^2+(6*a^2+6*a)*b+(-4)*a^3+(-12)*a^2)*x+(-3)*a^2*b^2+4*a^3)+
((-9)*b^2+(18*a+6)*b+(-9)*a^2+(-6)*a-1)*x+2*b^3+(-3)*a*b^2+((-3)*a^2-3*a)*b+2*a^3+6*a^2)^(1/3)+
(2^(2/3)-2^(2/3)*sqrt(3)*%i)*b^2+(2^(2/3)*sqrt(3)*%i-2^(2/3))*a*b+(2^(2/3)-2^(2/3)*sqrt(3)*%i)*a^2+(2…

Pip

11:04 AM

holy crap

Hjorthenify

You except me to make out what root it is from that? :P

user92578

That's acquired by asking a math program to solve Cubic(0, a, b, 1, t)=x

user92578

And the using a process called "trial and error" I determined which one of the three results gives me correct results

Hjorthenify

What @Ali.S posted is a lot simpler than that

Also what you asked there is for it to find t if you know x, a and b

I thought you wanted to find x?

user92578

No

user92578

11:07 AM

I know x, it is always somewhere between 0 and 1

user92578

I need to figure out the t using it

user92578

so that I can figure out y

Hjorthenify

y=cubic_bezier(0, x1, x2, 1, t) - x

Correct?

user92578

no, y=cubic_bezier(0, y1, y2, 1, solve(cubic_bezier(0, x1, x2, 1, t) - x))

Jon

don't know what kind of car to get... ugh

car shopping sucks

Hjorthenify

11:11 AM

Aha

user92578

finding the y is easy

user92578

finding the t to find y is hard

Hjorthenify

Yeah

I'd give it a shot, but I only slept 4 hours so I don't really feel like digging deeper into this :P

user92578

you dont definitely have to do anything

Hjorthenify

I'm interested, that's all

My teacher always told us just to use the solve function on our calculator, but each time I was curious on how it worked

user92578

11:19 AM

Maybe I'll take a quick break from the math and do something else for a moment

Chris

hmm, my C# file loader can't load files that were serialized using UnityScript -- throws an exception saying it can't load type like "System.Collections.Generic.List`1[[SavedChallenge, Assembly-UnityScript ..."

Ali.S

@Tyyppi_77 emm... what I suggested was to find t based on X

although I didn't count for restriction (0<=t<=1)

user92578

no, not that t

user92578

sorry, im gettign confused with the names

user92578

@Ali.S this is excactly what I need to do

Ali.S

11:23 AM

I guess I have to repeat myself

bezier curve is basically a quartic equation

something in for x = e t^4 + at^3+ b*t^2 + c * t + d

Martin Sojka

I tried running it through Wolfram Alpha, then reducing the result a bit. It looks like this:

y = 3 * a - 3 * b + 1; // If that's == 0, no solution!
z = -54 * a^3 + 81 * a^2 * b + 243 * a^2 * x - 162 * a^2;
v = 81 * a * b^2 - 486 * a * b * x + 81 * a * b + 162 * a * x - 54 * b^3 + 243 * b^2 * x - 162 * b * x + 27 * x;
w = -9 * a^2 + 9 * a * b + 9 * a - 9 * b^2;
u = z + sqrt(4 * w^3 + (z + v)^2) + v)^(1/3);

t = (u / (3 * 2^(1/3) * y) - (2^(1/3) * w) / (3 * y * u) + (2 * a - b)/y

As I wrote, looks rather simple.

(Just a quick job, I didn't verify if I didn't make a mistake transcribing somewhere ...)

You could do a bit more simplifying too: w = -9 * a^2 + 9 * a * b + 9 * a - 9 * b^2 = 9 * (- a^2 + a * b + a - b^2) and so on.

Shen Ruki

ortalpelleg.com

reminds me of nicol bolas

"the thirteenth step - a perfect circle"

morning.

user92578

@MartinSojka Wow thanks

user92578

I'll make sure to try this

user92578

Oh look it's the SDL dude

Shen Ruki

11:35 AM

@Tyyppi_77 sorry about my outburst

Martin Sojka

@Tyyppi_77 Try the general idea (factor out common polynomial parts of the equation into temporary variables), not necessarily the possibly buggy example. :)

Shen Ruki

felt like I was being picked on is all.

user92578

Did you simplify the part that I pasted in?

user92578

Or a more general level cubic function?

Martin Sojka

I simplified what Wolfram Alpha gave me as one of the results when I asked it to solve 3 * (1 - t)^2 * t * a + 3 * (1 - t) * t ^2 * b + t ^3 = x for t.

user92578

11:38 AM

And that's a similified version of the CubicBezier function, right?

Martin Sojka

That's the written out version for cubic_bezier(0, a, b, 1, t) = x - unless I made some errors transcribing it.

Shen Ruki

tereško

12:26 PM

@ShenRuki been listening to Soen?

Shen Ruki

not this morning

great vocals

Ali.S

@Tyyppi_77 is it fixed, or not yet?

user92578

nope

user92578

couldn't get the right simplified version

user92578

ill need to do some more work

user92578

1:22 PM

this is annoying

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

@Hjorthenify Hadn't gone to bed yet :P I work nights

Pip

@Tyyppi_77 what are you trying to use it for?

user92578

tween curves

user92578

So basically modifying the last parameter that feeds into a lerp call

Hjorthenify

@William'MindWorX'Mariager Ah rigth well good morning then :P

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

1:35 PM

Morning :P

Joe

good morning ~~all~~ GDSE

user92578

Hey!

Pip

eyo

user92578

hmm, this is not working at all

user92578

for some reason it always returns ~0.71

user92578

1:40 PM

no matter what I feed in

user92578

Strange

Chris

c# doesn't want to load my serialized lists that unityscript made. BinaryFormatter can't find the assembly; I'd have to link the UnityScript DLL, but then the class names would conflict with my c# class names. and I don't seem to be able to use a custom SerializationBinder to force it to load the list as a specific Type, because it throws the error before it even reaches that far

(thinking that not having people's saved local high scores, or saved game, or challenge scores be loaded would be kind of bad)

Jon

hmmm

have you tried rebooting?

Chris

I have not, lemme try. I know Unity can be dumb sometimes, I'll just rule it out

one thought is to roll out some code in my Unityscript project to save the challenges, high scores, etc in a more portable/editable format, like a PlayerPrefs string or something, and give people a month to use that... then have the c# build come along and interpret that stuff and save. probably wouldn't worry about character saves because permadeath

user92578

i dont want to do this anymore

Chris

1:55 PM

@Tyyppi_77 if it ain't worth it, just say no! or take a break :)

user92578

Maybe I'll program something else for a while

user92578

One thing I'd like to do is separate the graphics view and the collision data from my level class

Jon

I use PlayerPrefs a lot

Hjorthenify

You can also help me track down a silent bug in a piece of undocumented code with lots of dependencies .. Probably the worst decision ever!

@Jon What's that?

Jon

unity save stuff

great for saving settings, or player progress

user92578

2:07 PM

This dude seems to have used bisection: github.com/gre/bezier-easing/blob/master/index.js

Hjorthenify

@Jon Just looked it up. This is pretty cool!

user92578

I hate it how GRP publishes Release Notes / Change Logs before even updating the game

Chris

heh

user92578

And everytime I'm like "OH LOOK THEYRE BUFFING THE INFINITE PACKAGE AND GIVING ME FREE GUNS"

user92578

and then I launch the game

user92578

2:17 PM

and see that its not updated yet

Hjorthenify

It's all about the hype

Jon

3:05 PM

bgr.com/2015/07/31/windows-10-upgrade-spying-how-to-opt-out

Jesus Christ

guys do you know any way of getting lua function that calling my c function?

user92578

you mean like a call stack?

Jesus Christ

just the last calling func

Kevin van der Velden

There's debug info you can query

Ben

I asked here yesterday, but i'm going to try again since i'm pretty much out of options. How can I load single assets in Unity at runtime? Assets that can be added to the game after build, which rules out Resources.Load. Asset bundles don't allow this, having a single asset bundle per asset is far too slow. Any ideas?

Kevin van der Velden

3:09 PM

@JesusChrist try this one: stackoverflow.com/questions/12256455/…

Almo

sounds like you've restricted yourself out of possibilities

Kevin van der Velden

@Ben I don't think there's any other options, unity is pretty big on precompiling stuff from my limited experience with it

Pip

depends on the asset

you can do custom loading

and you can always use streams

Ben

@Pip Streams?

Pip

45

Q: C# using streams

Streams are kind of mysterious to me. I don't know when to use which stream and how to use them. Can someone explain to me how streams are used? If I understand correctly there are three stream types: stream, read stream and write stream. Is this correct? And what is for example the difference be...

3:33 PM

@JesusChrist FFI

@JesusChrist are you using LuaJIT, or the regular lua for some crazy reason?

Here's the correct LuaJIT based solution: luajit.org/ext_ffi.html

Here's something I found on google in about 5 seconds just in case you're doing something absolutely insane like using regular Lua instead of LuaJIT which is an objectively better runtime: github.com/jmckaskill/luaffi

Reference: luajit.org/performance.html

Just so everyone can easily see within 2 clicks for whatever CPU they are using...

LuaJIT, even with the JIT disabled, is still faster than Lua.

On basically every CPU in every test

And is almost always over 2x as fast (in interpereter mode!)

and more like 10x as fast with JIT

Jesus Christ

@MickLH nope, I'm not using luaJit

MickLH

lol hence the rant

@JesusChrist see rant

@JesusChrist all joking aside, you saw the FFI bit right?

And, seriously, why aren't you using LuaJIT?

Oops, I'm sorry I woke up caring again and wanting to help people today. Don't worry that's burned out again.

Jesus Christ

@MickLH what is FFI?

user4704

we ran into a pretty serious issue with LuaJIT running itself out of memory :|

MickLH

Foreign Function Interface

user4704

3:48 PM

stopped using it as a result

user4704

especially since it doesn't work on the xbox anyway

MickLH

I almost brought up consoles as the only justification for vanilla Lua

Back when I looked into it, Microsoft was not cool with developers doing JIT

nor sony, nor apple

Also a bug in open source software is supposed to prompt you to submit a patch, just saying.

Also, it would be a fallacy to say that an implementation error (Memory Leak) implies that one is inferior, given that the other could easily have the same error hidden away.

user4704

I didn't say it was inferior; just making conversation.

Almo

EVERYTHING IS INFERIOR

MickLH

It was more aimed at other people reading the conversation, who I was afraid might have interpreted that as an argument instead of an anecdote.

Almo

3:54 PM

Well they would be dorks anyway. ;)

user4704

Also "it runs out of memory" is a shit bug report, and we didn't have enough diagnostics evidence to narrow down a cause. I generally don't file bugs unless I have reasonable proof the bug is valid, and in this case we've only got a hunch.

MickLH

Maybe the garbage collector just needed to be triggered manually inside a loop that got JIT'ted too tightly

user4704

Could be, be the weird thing is that the particular error message it reports only came from one place in the luajit code (the alloc function), and only when malloc() failed.

user4704

But in all diagnostic cases the total process memory usage and total LuaJIT memory usage were well within limits where you'd expect malloc to succeed. :|

user4704

The stupid crash was very hard to reproduce, but when it did, only happened when the editor loaded a level, which only actually invoked a good ten lines of linear, stupid-simple Lua code.

user4704

3:57 PM

So I just sent the bug to the middleware vendors instead and let them deal with it.

MickLH

That's annoyingly ugly, I could justify fuckits at that point given a fixed deadline

user4704

yeah, since there was really no point to our using luajit anyway (the last thing I want is a different runtime on the console than on the desktop), I didn't feel like it was worth pursuing.

MickLH

Right, that's the logic I genuinely agree with. Since it's a no-go on consoles it would be insane to have different runtimes.

user4704

Also we never actually run more than one line of Lua in the game itself :D

user4704

So there's really no point to a faster runtime.

MickLH

4:01 PM

Yeah, although if one started moving more code into Lua and directly calling back to the C API....

That 10x performance boost on average could start to mean something in some cases

Jon

4:21 PM

gonna go test this one

user92578

looks good

Jon

220hp awd model

err

4wd

the winters we get here, i need that

user92578

nice

Jon

i'm actually shocked at the specs

i have been on the lookout for a tiny suv like this

i tested the VW Tiguan last night

200hp -- was peppy

but the engine is turbocharged

MickLH

I like the nice aggressive look to that car

Pip

4:24 PM

ey

MickLH

@Pip

Pip

sup

MickLH

I woke up late today :( like 8am

Super unproductive

Hjorthenify

I woke up 11:30 am.. What's the problem? :p

user92578

I woke up at 12:15am, I win

MickLH

4:34 PM

Around 8am is my peak efficiency potential

Pip

I woke up at like 6:00 am. Weenies :P

MickLH

I have to get up at 5am so that I've had water and breakfast and been working for an hour when 8am comes around

Hjorthenify

Around 8 am I'd fit the AI of a zombie

MickLH

I'm worthless by noon

hey wait a minute, @Tyyppi_77

user92578

sure

MickLH

4:39 PM

calmly offering @Tyyppi_77 a nuclear hot tea

user92578

lol

user92578

accepts tea but hands are shaking because of nervousness and hands burn

user92578

AAAAARGH

user92578

IT BURNS

user92578

AAAAARGH

user92578

4:40 PM

ITS SO NUCLEAR HOT

MickLH

Oh, shit, that was supposed to be a new, clear, hot tea

@Tyyppi_77 so how did the algorithm do and how did you improve it?

I KNEW IT!!! DAMNIT!!!

user92578

I never got actually to implementing it

user92578

People started suggesting the other approach

user92578

And I got stuck to how to figure out the starting interval?

MickLH

The other approaches are more high-tech but require either knowledge of complex arithmetic, or calculus

user92578

4:43 PM

yeah

MickLH

And the starting interval is pretty easy, just take the min and max between (0, y1, y2, 1)

user92578

Oh

MickLH

Bezier curves stay inside their control points

web.mit.edu/hyperbook/Patrikalakis-Maekawa-Cho/…

user92578

I feel kinda stupid that I didn't figure that one out

user92578

I probably got confused just staring at the equation with the x value included

MickLH

4:47 PM

Don't feel bad, it's not just something you can assume.

It would be a lot harder to prove it

user92578

ah, okay

user92578

Wait, stupid question

user92578

Is this the function I want to use in the bisection? ` f(t) := cubic_bezier(0, x1, x2, 1, t) - x`

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