Game Development

what I mean with that, in general I don't like statistics with anything, and in this case it's really good example why. They just don't make any sense, and the only reason I can come up with is that apple users generally (not always) just don't have anything in their head and they pay for just anything

hearthstone is a good game, and I really would give them money for the contents, as I have done for the PC version

Noctrine

@Lasse Nothing gets done because a statistically significant population will not pay to the level that is required to support it.

Lasse

as I said, that is a snowball effect

just the reverse

Almo

one reason people buy droid is that it is less expensive than ios

that filters your people right there

Lasse

7:25 PM

I bought droid because I don't want to support for over expensive crap that can do less

Almo

I forked $3500 for my new mac pro. I don't think twice about paying $10 for some good software on it.

that attitude

Noctrine

You aren't the general population.

Almo

but people who use linux

they want everything free

Lasse

lol?

Noctrine

ultimately it's easier to draw money out of iOS users because of the monetary buy-in that they have in the beginning.

Almo

7:26 PM

the os is free, why not the software?

Lasse

I don't want everything for free

I have bought photoshop, because gimp is crap

Almo

but actual sales data show that droid users as a group want things free

Lasse

and I use it with my Win7pro virtual machine I bought the licence for too

Almo

because they don't pay for shit

Noctrine

@Lasse You aren't representative of the general population.

Almo

7:27 PM

i have contact with real developers that tried both and did not recoup their dev costs for the droid version

Lasse

I never said I am

Almo

F2Z said they would consider making a droid version just for cred because the boss knows she won't make any money off it.

Alex M.

dang my heart hurts again

I think I need a beer

Almo

and that's because she has extensive contacts in the boardgame world that say if you make boardgames for droid, it doesn't pay

a few devs do. but they don't make the much money off the droid versions

Lasse

allright

from now on, I make my games for both android and ipad, and only charge for ipad version

and put ads on both

Noctrine

7:29 PM

You're reviews on the iOS app store are going to bomb if you are charging and then showing ads :\

Lasse

I don't care, ipad users still pay for crap

statistics say so

Noctrine

Emotion based decisions aren't good for business :\

Unless, you know, it's taking advantage of the emotions of others

Lasse

I'm not really planning to create any tablet games soon

Noctrine

The biggest problem with the android market is the range of device fragmentation and (last I checked) the ever present ability for people to download things without having compatible devices

Lasse

I'm just aroused for the fact they didn't publish a game with already large playerbase for platform I use

Noctrine

7:31 PM

So you're reviews bomb because people can't play things (the most irritating thing)

And then you have to do a large amount of work to support the range of devices that are there

Martin Sojka

How to prepare isometric assets for your games - Pretty cool. With pictures. And in colour.

Noctrine

So people on different devices still experience weird edge case problems that also effect your reviews and ultimately the amount of people that are getting your project.

For simple things, this doesn't matter. Go ahead cross-platform

The more complicated your project becomes the more you have to deal with, and then you'll eventually find that you are spending more money on supporting android and drawing measurably less profit.

That coupled with how ridiculously easy it is to crack generic android applications, means you lose quite a bit of possible profitable player base (on apps that have a direct cost) just to that

Lasse

I'm also irritated it's still impossible to create android games using linux tools with C#

Noctrine

In the face of all that, it makes less sense to support android. Just from a business perspective.

There are no C# things that compile to the NDK?

Lasse

Only for xamarin, and xamarin does not give shit about linux support

for the tools

Noctrine

7:35 PM

For linux based support

s/android/linux

Well no.

Alex M.

don't make paid apps that are also ad supported

Noctrine

Really its just the massive fragmentation combined with a core userbase of people who are heavy into the free software movement (although they do pay when they have to)

And a new user base that just got linux because it was free

Alex M.

it will also hurt your android profits, if the news spread

Noctrine

Unity has had nearly all of my votes on a linux client for the longest

Lasse

@AlexM. if that was reply for me, I was being sarcastic there

Alex M.

7:36 PM

it will also hurt your future projects

Lasse

I hate that the fact linux being free is used in that argument, because it has nothing to do with it

Noctrine

But it's a part of it.

Lasse

most of the people using linux chose linux because it's superior to windows in their minds

Noctrine

Like I said

a core userbase that is into the free software movement

and a new userbase that got it because it's free

Lasse

Also here are the humble bundle stats:

Average purchase:
$6.50
Average Windows:
$6.28
Average Mac:
$7.89
Average Linux:
$7.4

from the current weekly sales

Noctrine

7:38 PM

Linux users overwhelmingly pay more to combat the negative preception

Just like well-off african american people tip more to combat stereotypes

Lasse

I disagree

Noctrine

On which part?

Also, a lot of those massive donations are from people who identify as linux users. That massively helps to adjust the average

Lasse

1 min ago, by Noctrine

Linux users overwhelmingly pay more to combat the negative preception

this

Noctrine

And then, in real numbers. The other userbases are considerably larger.

Why do you think they pay more?

Lasse

I pay more to get the whole bundle

Noctrine

7:42 PM

You only have to beat the average for that

Lasse

not for the current weekly

Noctrine

I believe it's part appreciation, part stereotype combat

Lasse

if I wanted tower of guns, I'd have to pay $10

Noctrine

In general.

Because if industry knows that there is money in linux, they will begin to invest more into it (from a consumer perspective)

Lasse

and they are investing more and more all the time

Noctrine

7:43 PM

And that's awesome

But that doesn't change the history and the matter for current business.

I think the thing that will really turn around linux for consumers is SteamOS

That's about it :\

Lasse

Linux will be the future OS for everyone, but not in very near future

Almo

I continue to doubt that

Noctrine

I completely doubt that

Almo

bad interface design is still bad.

Noctrine

UI/X by committee is still bad

Almo

7:46 PM

an open source community can't afford to invest in the interface research apple does, and what noc said about UI by committee.

Lasse

you can doubt, you have the right for that

I still believe what I said, and everything you brought up there will be better

Noctrine

The only way that I can see it is the future OS for everyone is

1. It gets considerably easier.
2. It gets considerably cheaper.
3. Everyone gets a lot smarter.

Lasse

the first two are for linux, and the third one is just absurd to think

Noctrine

1 and 2 aren't true.

You are considerably more intelligent than the average population.

Linux is neither easy, nor cheap.

Lasse

The thing is, if you install current linux desktop and give it for someone with no skills with computers, the user won't even notice the difference

and linux have been nominated to be easier to facebook with

Noctrine

7:50 PM

Until it stops working

Lasse

it doesn't stop working like windows does

Noctrine

And I know. Because I do that.

When people destroy their windows machines I give them a linux machine.

For a normal user

"stops working" means doesn't do any of the things they want it to do

From

"Why can't I install office"

to

"Why isn't my printer working?"

Lasse

it does all those things

It works even with the mobile broadband devices

which are rare

Noctrine

Ok. Better

"Why can't I install (Insert Windows Only Program) that I used to use"

Even if you can do it with Wine

Or adobe suite

Lasse

do the normal users even know the names of the software they are using?

Noctrine

7:53 PM

A VM is not a solution for average users

Usually no.

Have you ever worked IS/IT support?

It's soul crushing, and being able to turn machines on makes you a superstar at times.

Lasse

i've been IT support for POS software

that ran on normal windows PCs

with support for web sales and crap

and yes, I know all of it

colleague of mine went and drove 300km to plug in the power cable

Alex M.

what noctrine says makes sense

linux guys are a minority and they try to look like good guys to get what others get

don't think that linux users aren't human too

Lasse

I know I'm god, but you shouldn't really say that aloud

Alex M.

I'm serious

Noctrine

Oh man, and don't forget about all the botnets out there filled with machines of less than competent linux administrators :(

That's the worst

Alex M.

7:58 PM

IRL too, gypsies show fake politeness when something happens

because they know they're hated and for good reason

Noctrine

:|

Lasse

you have weird gypsies

ours just stab you with a knife if something happens

Noctrine

Ultimately, I'd like nothing more than for linux to be more appreciated by the consumer facing sectors. Windows Command Line is terrible for my type of development, and I don't like paying what I have to pay for Apple gear. But now that I have to think like a business person, I get why it's not.

Though, I still put out linux stuff at cost. And will ultimately offer support for those things for the love

Alex M.

also see that news report about that gypsy who stole a bike from an american kid

and how all the gypsies there started acting like the victims

Noctrine

Until, I'm a public company. And my shareholders push me out for wasting money.

:| Alex.

Alex M.

8:01 PM

what

it's in the news

Noctrine

Take it to the pub >>

Alex M.

this derived from the linux talk

it's impossible to anticipate things like that

and just post them appropriately

anyway, on less controversial topics

I got myself a nice book with 40 pizza & focaccia recipes

the pics sure look awesome

Noctrine

That sounds amazing.

Alex M.

it's written by these guys academiabarilla.com/default.aspx

so I guess they knew what they were doing

GnomeSlice

desura.com/games/sublight/news/building-space-ships-in-sublight

Alex M.

8:09 PM

there's this JS interpreter available as a plugin in the Unity asset store

that interfaces with Unity's stuff

it's a good way to make your game run external scripts

thus a good way to make your game be moddable w/o requiring players to own Unity

Lasse

speaking of JS interpreter, I wonder if I could use the webpage renderer in my minecraft clone

to provide the UI renderer

Alex M.

Zero Suit Samus’s New Design is Sexist and Here’s Why

http://dispatches.cheatcc.com/855?utm_source=zergnet.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=zergnet_167563

here's a company that openly admits feminism, sexism and all that is just a marketing ploy: khanacademy.org/donors-choose

well not exactly openly

but you get it

perhaps a hundred years from now people will be clever enough to realize sexual attraction drives a lot of our activities in daily life

and showcasing such things isn't bad

or maybe not

after N-llions of years of evolution we're still afraid of the dark

and horror movie monsters

Noctrine

They should have given her chel's boots from Portal

Lasse

If I make a non-commercial library that uses another library that has licencing options like free for non-commercial and $x moneys for commercial usage, would the commercial projects that use my library need to pay for the third party library?

Noctrine

The current ones would destroy her ankles on a drop.

Alex M.

8:16 PM

How do the gift codes work?
You’ll receive a $100 DonorsChoose.org gift code for every female student who completes the course. When 4 or more female students complete it, we’ll email you an additional $500 gift code as a thank-you for helping your students learn to code. Check out some of the great things you can get for your classroom.

THAT IS FUCKING SEXIST

MALE STUDENTS ARE IGNORED

HAR HAR HAR

Noctrine

Male Students are likely not going to be ignored

This ensures that female students won't be though.

Alex M.

no gift codes for them

Where can my students set their gender?

lol

there's basically no real reason to prefer men over women in CS, and vice-versa

thus no real reason to increase the number of women in CS

it's just marketing shit

Noctrine

You're arguing against more workplace diversity?

Alex M.

I don't see the point of it, I'm not saying it's wrong

Noctrine

In a lot of industries it would be more helpful.

Alex M.

8:19 PM

20 male programmers doing job X, or 10 male and 10 female programmers doing job X

it's all the same to me

Noctrine

You have alternate mindsets for your project

In your example you have more spread in terms of experiences with 10 male / 10 female

Along with balance to those opinions

Alex M.

that's ambiguous and broad

can you give an example?

Noctrine

Working on a shopping site.

Almo

the point is, for me, that if we don't try to diversify, women will continue to be discriminated against.

Noctrine

20 male programmers are going to have mostly male-oriented opinions on how things work.

Alex M.

8:21 PM

such a site is meant to be closely coordinated by the customer you're building it for

wait, not coordinated

Noctrine

Because developer bias doesn't at all get included in things

ever

Alex M.

ideally it shouldn't

there's the project owner

the manager

and the team

Noctrine

And in the case when the developers are project owners?

Alex M.

why would 20 male programmers build a shopping site for women?

Noctrine

I didn't say for women

Alex M.

8:22 PM

right out of the blue, like that

Noctrine

I just said a shopping site

Ultimately what I'm arguing is differences in perspective and experience

Alex M.

then how would a woman's perspective on a shopping site be different from that of a man?

on any shopping site

(because the kind of shopping site totally doesn't matter)

Noctrine

Dunno, design, flow, color choice all kinds of stuff?

I'm not a woman. But I see no reason to work against diversity when it's just as easy to work for it

Alex M.

if I built a shopping site for hardcore gamers... I'd rather the customer was a hardcore gamer tbh

Noctrine

I just said a shopping site :\

generic case

Alex M.

8:24 PM

you can't deal with generic stuff like that

Noctrine

Women make up 50%~ of a market

Amazon?

Alex M.

not all shopping sites are the same

Noctrine

Walmart

Meijers

Alex M.

your point?

Noctrine

You can deal with generics

I'm not saying you have to have an even split

Alex M.

8:25 PM

I'm even more confused now, but w/e

Noctrine

Just that diversity is better than a completely homogeneous workspace

Pip

hey

Alex M.

yo pip

Pip

sup?

can you pin the MT message?

Noctrine

No, you go back to code until you have screenshots

Pip

8:27 PM

lol

Alex M.

@Noctrine this

Pip

@Noctrine want a screenshot?

there

that is it at the moment

Alex M.

something tells me with everything becoming hackable including cars

Noctrine

No pin for you then. Not sure you're serious about this project. Pins are valuable

Pip

lol

Alex M.

8:29 PM

it's a good time to specialize yourself on security

Pip

I am totally serious @Noctrine... that is it

lool

Noctrine

@AlexM. Yep. Become the security version of SEO :p

Pip

I am completely serious about this @Noctrine

Noctrine

Your car could get hacked! For 5k, we can make sure it won't.

Pip

sorry for the pings :P

Alex M.

8:30 PM

Freelance Hacker Police

S@m & Maxx

Pip

such a rip-off from TellTale Games :P

Alex M.

I would slap the shit out of you but then I would look like an hypocrite

Pip

?

Lasse

@Pip Here is current and original graphics from one of projects I'm currently in:

It's way better

Pip

awesome

Alex M.

8:31 PM

because I played the Telltale games way before I played the originals

Lasse

it has text

Alex M.

I also never read the Sam & Max comics

Pip

I can put text in it at will @Lasse

Lasse

I want text

Pip

:P

alright

Alex M.

8:32 PM

Sam & Max

Sam & Max is a media franchise focusing on the fictional characters of Sam and Max, the Freelance Police. The characters, who occupy a universe that parodies American popular culture, were created by Steve Purcell in his youth, and later debuted in a 1987 comic book series. The characters have since been the subject of a graphic adventure video game developed by LucasArts, a television series produced for Fox in cooperation with Nelvana Limited, and a series of episodic adventure games developed by Telltale Games. In addition, a variety of machinima and a webcomic have been produced for ...

telling a fan that Sam & Max is Telltale Games'

is as bad as telling a Fallout fan that Fallout is Bethesda's

Pip

CRAP