Game Development

snake5

3:06 PM

@MickLH sgscript.org

Ali.S

@MickLH does this mean, you gave up on your last engine, and started a new one?

MickLH

@Ali.S No, I just lost a partition that contained my latest work

Ali.S

@MickLH sad :|

what about online backup? version control? etc.?

MickLH

My my fault screwing around with Windows 7 installer just to play games on the computer I work on

I reverted to the latest version in git

Which was horribly outdated

Yeah yeah

Almo

:(

Ali.S

3:09 PM

@snake5 what about android/ios/wp ports?

MickLH

@snake5 It seems like a good option, I evaluated AngelScript too, and Python, LISP, even embedding LLVM and using their IL as a script language

snake5

@Ali.S there are no build files for android but it's supported

as for the other two, not supported yet

user92578

	CRenderDescription* tempRenderDescription = BuildRenderDescription();
	m_RenderDescription = tempRenderDescription;
	delete tempRenderDescription;

Almo

it is so hard not to answer every Code Review question that uses something else with "Use Allman bracing" :)

MickLH

Actually I checked out V8 and SpiderMonkey too, Ruby, basically everything I could get my hands on for the last few years

user92578

3:10 PM

Is this proper memory management in C++?

snake5

well, only if the system-specific code is removed

Almo

no

user92578

or does m_RenderDescription get corrupted when I delete the tempDescription?

Roy T.

@Tyyppi_77 no

MickLH

@Tyyppi_77 It looks horribly wrong, but maybe m_RenderDescription is a class which implements operator=

snake5

3:11 PM

@Tyyppi_77 yes

Almo

when you call delete tempRenderDescrituion, m_RenderDescription is now pointing to invalid memory

user92578

okay

Almo

delete deallocates the memory used by the object pointed to

MickLH

You guys are saying "No" too fast, m_RenderDescription could implement operator=(CRenderDescription*)

Roy T.

@Tyyppi_77 you need to learn about pointers :) find some C++ tutorials

Almo

3:12 PM

so if someone else is pointing to it, they are now an invalid pointer

user92578

I know about them... at least some

Ali.S

man, we have way too many c++ developers in the room :P

user92578

SO how'd I do this?

Almo

:D

user92578

BuildRenderDescription() returns a new CRenderDescription();

Almo

3:12 PM

don't call delete on the renderdescription until you don't need it anymore

user92578

but this code will get called every frame

MickLH

@Tyyppi_77 Do you ever use the same CRenderDescription* for multiple entities?

user92578

it'll bleed the value on tempDescription every frame?

user92578

@MickLH no

MickLH

Well then there's a design problem

Almo

3:13 PM

ok we don't have enough information about your code to answer the question

but it does not look right

MickLH

You shouldn't be using new and delete in this case

user92578

and all this will go away if I make my function to modify the state instead of returning something...

MickLH

If you wanted to make what you have work, you could probably do something like:

if (m_RenderDescription) delete m_RenderDescription;
m_RenderDescription = BuildRenderDescription();

but that's not recommended

Roy T.

EYE BURN

user92578

void CEntitySkin::BuildRenderDescription()
{
	delete m_RenderDescription;
	m_RenderDescription = new CRenderDescriptiion(...);
}

Roy T.

3:15 PM

@Tyyppi_77 it seems to me like you're really new to C++. Try to start with something a lot more simple to get comfortable with memory management in C++. Don't try to learn everything at once. A lot of people here are giving good advice that will work as a quick fix, but it wont help you much understanding what is going on, and it will not help you make games on your own.

user92578

@RoyT. I've practically got a game working in C++ that I've been programming from June

user92578

So I'm a noob I guess

MickLH

@Tyyppi_77 Why do you delete something, just to create a new one

Don't use the constructor as a function

user92578

You're supposed to delete tthe old one before reallocation, right?

MickLH

Don't reallocate at all

You are deleting an object and then creating the same one

snake5

3:17 PM

@Tyyppi_77 you're supposed to do what you have to, and nothing more

user92578

Well to be honest my game has pretty much no memory management at all

MickLH

replace

delete m_RenderDescription;
m_RenderDescription = new CRenderDescriptiion(...);

with:

if (!m_RenderDescription) m_RenderDescription = new CRenderDescriptiion();
m_RenderDescription->DoThatStuff(...);

user92578

but I'm trying to do it for every new class

snake5

@Tyyppi_77 is that a problem?

user92578

But what I'm doing is creating a new description class with updated data

MickLH

3:18 PM

or better yet, just pull the render description fields into the parent

user92578

@snake5 I don't think so

Roy T.

@MickLH that is a terrible pattern

user92578

It'll run out of memory eventually, because all the leaks

MickLH

@RoyT. Your words sound like those of an arrogant elitist in troll-mode.

They provide not even the slightest useful insight, and actually only cause emotional grief to everyone involved.

Roy T.

@MickLH definitely not what I'm trying to do. But your giving all sorts of hacky quick fixes now to someone who, I think, does not yet understand what is going on

@MickLH I was trying to google a good resource to use as a guide

user92578

3:20 PM

Like I know the basics of pointers and then the basic objects

user92578

references are a bit mystery for me

user92578

But I don't use them, so it's fine

MickLH

He understands the very basics, but I think he he's not written his hobbyist OS yet if that's what you mean

Roy T.

@MickLH and checking for null and then allocating causes a disparity between where you initialize and where you clean up

MickLH

I disagree, but that's not even what I care about here

I already said there are design problems, I'm not gonna beat him over the head with that

Roy T.

3:22 PM

Look guys, I'm not trying to flame anyone here. I just think that, when talking about C++, this sort of random information is often more harmful, than good. Let's take a step back. Look at the real problem, and lets help solve that

Ehm....

user92578

regrets asking anything since the conversation like 70% of the times lead to me beeing a noob and a bad programmer

MickLH

I switched to giving examples which can outline the way the semantics function, I've found it seems to inspire @Tyyppi_77 to learn on his own

user92578

yeah

user92578

that's a good way

SpartanDonut

@Tyyppi_77 not to mention 95% of the time it leads to huge debate between people here ;)

Roy T.

3:23 PM

@Tyyppi_77 I'm sorry, I never called you a noob, its just very complex stuff you're dealing with now and I want to help you.

user92578

So any good pointer tutorials, when I know the basics?

MickLH

@RoyT. Hey I hope there's no hard feelings

I'm only being viciously blunt with you because I can sense that you can handle it and undestand

Roy T.

Now I'm confused, :P what do you even know about me?

user92578

@RoyT. It's fine, I didn't know this was complex stuff. And I get annoyed quite quickly, any help on anything is always appreciated

snake5

@Tyyppi_77 everyone's a noob at something

the goal generally is to either fix or forget that, not use it as an excuse

Roy T.

3:25 PM

Anyway lets get back to the problem

MickLH

@RoyT. Well I've observed so little that it's actually amazing how much I can infer, it's for the most part fuzzy reasoning and doesn't place literal values on most of my judgement slots, but instead places constraints between them which still contribute to the overall solution even if they don't provide concrete experiences

user92578

pastebin.com/MgADMHg6

user92578

I split it to this now

Roy T.

@Tyyppi_77 what do you really want? Do I understand correctly that you want to reuse a n object over different frames?

MickLH

@Tyyppi_77 you're not supposed to delete NULL

user92578

3:26 PM

Basicaly I want to create an easy class for storing information about the visuals of an entity in a simpler structure than my RenderDescription data class

user92578

@MickLH right, that was a brain fart

MickLH

And in the long run, @RoyT. is right, you should be following RAII

user92578

Just checked if it's NULL, no sense to delete it :)

Roy T.

@MickLH ah thats the term I'm Googling, couldn't remember it!

MickLH

:P it had to be that because there are only a few ways to stay sane while using C++ in real life

user92578

3:27 PM

my whole codebase is such a mess on the memory

Roy T.

@Tyyppi_77 if you add a destructor to that class, that checks if m_renderDescriptor is null and if not deletes it, that code seems OK

user92578

and everytime I try to add delete, I get horrible heap exceptions

MickLH

lol

user92578

but it's very very true

user92578

horrible data structure I guess

MickLH

3:29 PM

@Tyyppi_77 This. is like design flaws embodied into physical form, at your front door lighting a bag of dogshit

Roy T.

For every new in your code there should be an equivalent delete somewhere

user92578

yeah, I know that

user92578

well, I learned that a bit too late

user92578

when the codebase was already past the state where adding deletes just cause exceptions and crasches and stuff

Roy T.

What I usually do is check for each class, that at the moment they are created they initialize everything (new) and at the moment they are destructed they delete everything they have created. I often try not to let other classes take responsibility for that. Keeps you sane :)

user92578

3:30 PM

yeah, that's what I've tried

Roy T.

@Tyyppi_77 but if you never delete your code will always be unstable (assuming you used new at least once in your update loop)

*code = game

MickLH

@Tyyppi_77 once you get to your feature checkpoint, don't be afraid to re-write everything and use your old code like a "tutorial"

snake5

@RoyT. oh, games have been shipped with worse problems than a few missing deletes

Roy T.

@snake5 true :P

user92578

or just "ship" and make a sequel

Roy T.

3:31 PM

@snake5 I think Watch Dogs shipped with a bug that slowly ate all video memory :P

snake5

but it generally helps not to touch the heap at all, if possible

MickLH

@Tyyppi_77 yeah that's the idea, once you ship it, you have plenty of time to re-write

snake5

@RoyT. CoD:Ghosts definitely did

Roy T.

Well the heap is great for objects that live a long time

user92578

but there's no time limit for me

snake5

3:31 PM

had to restart it after every two levels

user92578

I'd like to keep this weekend as a refactoring weekend

MickLH

I been meaning to ask about your background, @RoyT. You come off like a comp-sci guy to me.

user92578

re-write a lot of stuff (atleast a bit)

Roy T.

Well you can probably do a lot in a weekend

user92578

now should I like really write the stuff again (like in class-level) or just maybe split stuff into methods and smaller classes possibly, and clean the code?

snake5

3:33 PM

@MickLH agreed, people tend to cling too much to their old code at times

Roy T.

@MickLH true, mini prof. life recap: I just finished my master Game & Media Technology. Interned at Nixxes (Tomb Raider) and Abbey Games (Reus, REIS), also worked as dev creating science exhibits.

MickLH

Nice, what kind of science exhibits?

Roy T.

@Tyyppi_77 refactoring weekends are great. Feels so good to fix all those annoyances you have with the code, and then after the weekend start with a cleaned-up version :)

snake5

learning things takes about 90% of the code writing process, the other 10% are for putting things in code

user92578

@RoyT. Life-recaps happen here too rarely :D

user92578

3:34 PM

@snake5 totally not me

snake5

@Tyyppi_77 why not?

user92578

I spend weeks on stupid stuff

snake5

well, that's learning

MickLH

@snake5 I've always been able to re-write even my largest applications in a week after I've done it before.

user92578

because I haven't learnt anything? and go by trial and error?

snake5

3:34 PM

@MickLH same here

Roy T.

@MickLH mostly stuff that can be classified as "automated slides" but I also made a few cool things. Simulation of our solar system on a 50" touch screen, and a 'robot' that mimicks facial expressions.

user92578

@MickLH week of freetime if work time?

snake5

@Tyyppi_77 trial & error is learning too

Roy T.

*automated slide shows

user92578

yeah, I guess so

MickLH

3:35 PM

@RoyT. Sweet, the vibe you bring into the room is....

I don't want to try and put words on it, but it's pleasant imo

user92578

The bad thing is on the weekends when I could get a lot of done, no-one is yelling me at this chat, to turn me to the right direction

Roy T.

Not an "arrogant elitist in troll-mode"-vibe? ;)

user92578

How do you decide what to refactor?

MickLH

@RoyT. hahaha no that's me

Roy T.

@Tyyppi_77 hard question

snake5

3:37 PM

@Tyyppi_77 it's rarely possible to predict the outcome so, educated guesses, most of the time

user92578

like I really feel like spending the weeked just on the code, maybe only pressing f7, no f5 at all :)

snake5

I've refactored something many times and found out that the original version was actually better

so until you do both, you have no data

user92578

but like where do I start? go file by file?

snake5

don't start anywhere, just think of what annoys you most in the code

Roy T.

Since you said you were annoyed with how your memory is allocated/deallocated. Why not try to find the worst offender, see how it can be split-up, improved (dont be afraid to ask around) and see how that affects the rest of the code.

Almo

3:39 PM

@Tyyppi_77 for me, if I'm using some code and it regularly annoys me how it was set up, then I consider refactoring it

Roy T.

Be sure to make a backup before you start refactoring though :P

I seriously broke things beyond repair sometimes :P

snake5

with proper version control, preferably

Almo

the consideration depends on whether or not I think it will really help, or if it's the kind of refactoring that is endless and will prevent finishing the product

snake5

like git, where it's possible to make branches and stashes

and get back to the original version in a second

user92578

@RoyT. asking around is very difficult on weekends though; no one's here :(

Almo

3:40 PM

just found out my database structure for Lowest Number has a flaw, but it's not crippling until there's a TON of data in the db, and it can be dealt with later

user92578

I have a GitHub repo

Almo

so I'm putting it off until I've a least soft launched

MickLH

@RoyT. Dude I'm totally joking, I'm not an elitist narcissist or anything like that.

Roy T.

You have to choose now, are you, or arent you ;)

MickLH

I'm the most modest, skilled, gentle and forgiving person and if you don't believe me then fuckoff

SpartanDonut

3:47 PM

Mick is a hard read. Outside of incredibly intelligent I'm not sure what he is.

user92578

Mick is a really hard read to me, the smallish language barrier often blocks me from his true meaning

MickLH

I'm completely joking btw, I actually am gentle and forgiving IRL, I just find it extremely hilarious leading people to judge me and then not being what they judged me as

user92578

Doesn't sound nice at all

snake5

@MickLH yeah, breaking prejudices is always fun

anyway, I should fix one horrible lightmap rendering bug

two, actually

user92578

I think that the entity & level relationship and both classes need a big refactoring

user92578

3:56 PM

UML Diagram Tool Suggestions?

Roy T.

Pen & Paper (not kidding :) )

SpartanDonut

^

I often opt for a whiteboard but same concept

Seth Battin

@Tyyppi_77 amazon.com/Refactoring-Patterns-Joshua-Kerievsky/dp/0321213351

SpartanDonut

lol uh oh

Seth Battin

the book about what patterns are good for, instead of what they are ostensibly about

very, very good

for refactoring

user92578

4:00 PM

ain't nobody got the money for that

Seth Battin

it turns out that people almost never use patterns the way they were originally described

oh, steal it

ebooks. easier than music or movies or games

SpartanDonut

you really shouldn't advocate stealing things here

Seth Battin

i know

but if it's a money thing

well...then stealign becomes ok. right? right ?

SpartanDonut

OH AS LONG AS YOU KNOW ITS NOT A GOOD IDEA THEN I GUESS ITS OK TO SAY THESE THINGS

Not really

Seth Battin

nope

then perhaps...the library?

it's just a good book, i recommend reading (but not stealing) it

SpartanDonut

4:01 PM

;)

user92578

the library in here is nut full of programming books

user92578

I worked the summer in the local library, and believe me, the stuff there was like about VBasic from the early 2000s

user92578

Is keeping the static entities in one list and the dynamic (moving) entities in one list a good idea?

Seth Battin

I really came on chat because @Jon desperately needs to answer this question: gamedev.stackexchange.com/q/86349/19126

Jon

what is the issue, when you zoom, the offset of the background image moves?

paste your camera view matrix

user92578

4:08 PM

that's not Seth's question

user4704

@Jon The asker isn't in here.

Jon

oh

Seth Battin

you know, since you've spent weeks solving this problem

Jon

you mean a day?

Seth Battin

was that all?

seemed longer

Jon

4:10 PM

probably 2 days actually

my main issue with the bg offsetting, was becuase I was using a linear clamp across the viewport

so i dropped that

3drealms.com

user4704

Meh.

Siddharth

4:28 PM

friends I need your help regarding this topic

answers.unity3d.com/questions/816358/…

if you are aware with unity then you can help me

Noctrine

Pretty sure we have an answer to that here

2

A: Can a UIKit application co-exist with a Unity game as a single application?

This will be improbably difficult. Unity is not a standalone view wholly contained within a UIView subclass instance; if it were, this would be easy enough, you'd just add the view as a subview when you wanted to activate the Unity game and remove it when you were done (or use any number of simil...

Siddharth

@Noctrine for you help

I think first I have to go through all these content

then if any question arise ask you another time

are you available here regularly?

Noctrine

All the time

Mod and all

There are also a number of people here who use unity, you can totally get help by posting on our main site.

Siddharth

approximate on which time?

Noctrine

These peoples need rep

Click my name

It says when I'm usually on

Siddharth

4:34 PM

I am posting questions on main website but didn't get any answer there

most time it is closed

though I have good reputation there

in 2 mins I got some path to work here

but at that I am getting only negative marking

sorry for my clear statements

and thanks for this valuable help. it is big thing for me

because from long time I can't able to find any starting point

Noctrine

Just ran through

For the most part your questions seem to be up

You've got a few that are unclear

The other problem are questions that are out of scope

If you have a question that's closed because it's unclear - and you need help clearing it up - you should stop by here. The users of the chatroom will be happy to help you.

Also, you may interact with users who can talk with you in your native language - so that they can help you clarify things.

user4704

5:53 PM

I plastered the front page again.

Jon

ouch geekwire.com/2014/…

Almo

looks like it might be time to buy AMZN.

"Stocks are something nobody wants to buy when they're on sale"

Jon

could probably wait a little more

Almo

"Bear markets return shares to their rightful owners"

heheh

wow the fluid thingy is fuckin cool

user4704

maybe they shouldn't have made a stupid phone

user4704

6:06 PM

(nb didn't actually read their filings so have no idea if that's contributing)

user4704

(but the phone is still stupid)

Almo

hahah :D

not quite sure what this is showing me

when I drag, invariably it ends up with these black areas

Not like it's lack of particles there, since I can still drag and get it to affect stuff in there

Icy Defiance

a week of modding skyrim, that's the result

might be the prettiest game I've ever played now

the mountains in the background are real too. I can walk to them and climb them.

Almo

wow

Icy Defiance

6:25 PM

and the star citizen fps team is doing an ama and making their game sound really awesome again: reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/2k7kuu/…

Almo

6:36 PM

"NO BUNNY HOPPING. "

good deal

I'm a veteran Q3 player and can strafe jump really, really well, but I never really liked it as a gameplay mechanic

Almo

7:06 PM

woa new error from P4 i've never seen before when doing Reconcile Offline Work: "Client map too twisted for directory list."

Perforce

sorry; version control software

i've been using it for many years, and tend to assume everyone knows what it is

SpartanDonut

I brought in a bot for a very short period of time... decided there was no actual good use of it

Almo

please don't over ping me

I have not used git

but P4 is free for up to 20 workspaces, and I know how it works

Seth Battin

almo, it does file locking, right?

Almo

yeah p4 is a file-locking thing

Seth Battin

mmm...i dislike

Almo

7:14 PM

it's pretty old-school, I gather.

you operate with branches

Seth Battin

perforce may work with git, it is not obligatory

Almo

and do integrates from one branch to another

my experience with Kiln was not good

I would never choose it if I could avoid it

Seth Battin

lots of things sound like git, but in practice they are so, so much worse

for example, hg

Pip

7:32 PM

Beyond Earth llooks amazing.... much want

Lokkij got it :P

Jon

7:46 PM

lets pillage his house

AttackingHobo

gfycat.com/SizzlingHighFallowdeer

Jon

pcworld.com/article/2043026/…

They are actively saying they want to lay off 1 million employees and replace them with robots.

John McDonald

@Jon You watched Humans Need Not Apply yet?

►

2

Seth Battin

good video, that one

John McDonald

(heh, that was my new dishwasher, link modified)

Yeah... and scary. 1 million people in China factories is only the beginning

AttackingHobo

7:56 PM

Why does gfycat butcher converted files so much?

keep the same fps please gfycat

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