Game Development

Almo

1:08 AM

@IcyDefiance .

@IcyDefiance . wtf you afk or some shit?

@IcyDefiance will watch some championships beep me if you get back

Icy Defiance

1:36 AM

@Almo I was taking an exam. Calm thyself.

Almo

I'm calm :)

how did the exam go?

Icy Defiance

not perfect, but good enough

Almo

that's good

:)

Icy Defiance

that was a 7 week course and it's over now, so wednesdays should be totally free in the future

Almo

cool

more game dev

:)

Icy Defiance

1:38 AM

pfft nah, more skyrim

lol I've spent the last 3 days just modding the shit out of skyrim, not even playing it

almost done...I think...

Almo

hahah :)

Aidan Mueller

2:44 AM

Jeb took a selfie.

Mission control is still working out where he got the camera from.

Maybe I should have distorted the picture a bit to simulate sstv.

Seth Battin

3:36 AM

lol doesn't want me to play it

it seems hellbent on leaver busting me, but it seems to be the only thing that has trouble functioning on my connection

Roy T.

10:04 AM

Ewwww EA CEO talks about microtransactions... youtube.com/watch?v=ZR6-u8OIJTE

Jon

10:58 AM

that suvanablitch

elliptic-games.com

Roy T.

11:16 AM

?

Jon

11:58 AM

►

user92578

Hey guys!

user92578

I got like this horrible urge to program yesterday, but I'm not allowed to program on Wednesdays... So now, it's going to be a lot of programming today

Jon

eh, whats wrong with wednesday?

user92578

Well not just wednesday, I have to keep one day every week when I do not touch the computer in any other way that school related stuff

user92578

and tomorrow I have a freaking book expo to go to

Jon

12:05 PM

ohhh, boring

Jon

12:24 PM

so post pics later then @Tyyppi_77

user92578

about the book expo? :D

Jon

"So now, it's going to be a lot of programming today"

user92578

ah, that means refactoring and cleaning to me :)

user92578

so probably no visual progress

MickLH

lol so much to say no point to say it

Jon

12:30 PM

about refactoring?

MickLH

You know what sucks about having a 200 IQ? I already thought of that. I already had a billion tangent thoughts, and now it's a non trivial task just deciding which tangent is most relevant. In the time I've spent even acknowledging the task ahead of me (to process my ideas into simple language), it has exploded in size into unreasonable porportions. I'll get back to you tomorrow on that seemingly simple thing once I get enough idle time to come back to the original idea.

Jon

so being self aware?

MickLH

It's pretty painful when you accurately predict someone's response and you really have already considered the point they are stuck on

People aren't really willing to consider "What if I'm overlooking something?"

In real life I'm used to everyone assuming that if I say something, it's right. It's only reasonable to expect me to catch my own errors because I'm almost never talking to someone who thinks about the topic I'm discussing deeper than I am or at least have

I am only frustrating myself here really, trying to pretend I'm getting something off my chest. It's futile, I just need to give up on communicating with general humans like everyone else with stephen hawking iq lol

user92578

So you have a really high IQ @MichLH? Or am I not getting it right (once again)?

Jon

you are getting it off your chest, there is just not much we can reply to what you are saying

MickLH

12:41 PM

I can't even be happy with a girlfriend because I have to talk down to her and she can't realize how much work I'm doing for her constantly.

Even if I'm ridiculously sweet and patient, she still feels dumb

Martin Sojka

So do the logical thing and don't have a girlfriend.

Jon

or wait for a smart one

you seem to think there are no other smart people out in the world

MickLH

I am, I am, I'm just feeling "compressed"

Jon

Yeah, there seemingly seems to be an abundance of stupid people

MickLH

I know there are smart people, but they are busy with their lives too lol

Can't go out to a club to pick up some smart chicks hahaha

Jon

12:44 PM

nope that isn't a good way to meet smart chicks

Almo

^

I didn't meet my smart chick that way.

Jon

I met a lot of dumber than usual chicks that way

user92578

still waiting to meet any chick any way

2

Almo

Though her intelligence is from synthesis of seemingly random inputs, and she drives pure logic-type dudes crazy. :)

Martin Sojka

@Jon There seems to be some correlation between either IQ and introversion, or negative correlation between IQ and loudness. Not sure which. Somebody will surely be able to produce scientific studies on the issue.

Almo

12:45 PM

oop time to head to work talk later :)

Jon

introvert extrovert.. everyone has both

Martin Sojka

It's a sliding scale, yes.

Jon

i can communicate with people, but it can't take too long

after a while i get annoyed

MickLH

^

Jon

like its wasting my time

Almo

12:46 PM

I process what people are trying to get at too quickly, and get bored waiting for them to say it.

3

MickLH

I'm not even trying to find a girl at this point, I just want to be able to communicate with common people but I have to give up.

Lokkij

^^

Jon

^^

Yeah.. my current girlfriend, her stories drag on so long.. i'm like, man you could of said that in like 5 seconds

user92578

Isn't that the essence of girlhood?

user92578

really long stories?

MickLH

12:47 PM

@Almo I predict that's a common things with us here lol, that's my motivation behind choosing this place to vent

@Tyyppi_77 lol

Martin Sojka

@Jon Well, I guess it depends on the topic. I can drag on for hours just to answer the question on how WWI started, for example. :)

Jon

probably a common trait amongst "good" programmers

user92578

@MickLH had to google that one up

user92578

nonono

user92578

now it seems like I googled "lol"

Jon

12:48 PM

lol @MartinSojka

WWI started because of some prince getting assasinated right?

user92578

that's one way

MickLH

oh god

Martin Sojka

@Jon Starting with, "Well, you see, there was this old Roman Empire which fell ..."

haha

12:49 PM

@Lokkij That's the very short version.

Jon

i never got really interested in history, so I only studied various parts of it

i can tell you everything to do about computers though

MickLH

lol I'm actually up to hear it, it's just that history is sortof a scarred topic for me because I had to sit through school for years thinking "I don't give a fuck about your inaccurate bullshit propaganda"

Lokkij

@MartinSojka Of course, it's super complex. It's a pretty good introduction though and (also very important) fun to watch.

user92578

4111 errors :D

user92578

ah, the joys of refactoring

Jon

12:51 PM

good point about history

Almo

@MickLH :)

MickLH

seriously though your comment nailed it

Almo

I have only recently (last couple years) become aware of this.

Now that I know, it's easier to deal with. :)

gotta head to werk

talk later :)

MickLH

the implications of it even lead to the big "fuzzy" point I wish it were possible to make

Martin Sojka

As for the Extra Credits videos, they are a nice overview, but here are all the details they got wrong: reddit.com/r/badhistory/comments/2hy2jr/…

And here's a bit more: reddit.com/r/badhistory/comments/2izf5j/…

(See you in a few hours ;))

user92578

12:54 PM

@Almo Now that I think of this, I actually do this a bit myself

user92578

aaaand I froze the conversation once again?

MickLH

see what hurts the most is when someone calls at such a specific time that you just immediately know their emotions and intentions more deeply than they can even express them at the time they called

especially when their emotions are too energetic to just accept "Hi. Yeah. I'll deliver XYZ on the 3rd, Ok?"

Then they spend 30 minutes explaining XYZ to be what you already knew it was

And another 10 trying to see if it's really reasonable to do it before the 5th

When you had shit to do today, and now you wasted 40 minutes.. And that was supposed to be one of the quick technical people in your life ;(

Or when it's with someone who's emotionally offended and you can clearly understand why, but they feel they need to explain it harder until you feel as bad as them. They piss themself off saying you lack empathy when in reality you're telling them to "Get over it." because you have empathy and have been where they are before.

That's really probably the worst part: Most people aren't smart enough to identify the fact that any negative emotion is the result of indulging in ego, and all of them can be cured by simply getting (the fuck) over it.

user92578

1:09 PM

Hah, it looks like next thursday we'll have a panel conversation by 3 teachers and a tutor on the topic "Community as the foundation of Welness" in school :D

user92578

Gonna be fascinating

SpartanDonut

2:12 PM

@Almo Especially when its a chat message during a screen share session and they just type so damn slow

Almo

oh yeah

slow typing in chat can be really painful

and with screen share, you can't really go browse while waiting for them to type

user92578

4422 Errors :D

user92578

I love refactoring in C++ without proper tools

user92578

gotta love visual studio

Lokkij

Ugh I hate licensing restrictions on anime.

Almo

2:23 PM

gotta vis lovual studio

I hate licensing restrictions

(no anime needed)

Netflix Canada has so much less than US

Lokkij

I'd be willing to pay for it, but it's basically impossible. :(

Almo

I can't pay iTunes $1 for a CNN show I like without ads, cause I'm in Canada.

Find the creator's email address and paypal him $10 :)

SpartanDonut

@Lokkij story of my life

Almo

15

Q: Sierpinski Carpets

Who doesn't love a good fractal? The Sierpinski Carpet is a classic example of a fractal. To complete this task, you will be required to generate a carpet of type and print the resulting image to the stdout (see example below for formatting) , representing the level carpet. Steps can be found o...

the annoying thing about codegolf puzzles is that inevitably languages designed specifically to golf things and be unreadable win. :(

Shroeder

2:50 PM

Is the Xna development kit offered by microsoft really dead?

SpartanDonut

"Rumors" of a 4.5 in the works

Shroeder

Nice

user92578

really?

Jon

they also patched it in jan

msxna.codeplex.com/releases/view/117230

user92578

i thought it was dead and buried

Jon

2:51 PM

msxna.codeplex.com/releases/view/112067

Shroeder

I am creating my game in visual studio because I don't know any better. I didn't want to be overwhelmed by a new interface to have to program in

Jon

Support for Windows Phone 8
Support for DirectX 11

Shroeder

I see monogame and unity development and I would like to know if it would be an easy transition for me to try these environments.

Almo

@Shroeder working in visual studio does not require using XNA

SpartanDonut

@Jon there it is. I couldn't find that link

Shroeder

2:53 PM

I know that.

I was trying to say, I just program in xna because thats all i know.

If I were to switch to Monogame or something, I would have to learn all new libraries right?

user92578

no

SpartanDonut

Monogame's API is supposed to be identical (or perhaps near identical) to XNA

user92578

yeah

Almo

sorry to be a pedant but you said "I am creating my game in visual studio because I don't know any better."

Shroeder

These other interfaces have the exact same everything?

user92578

2:55 PM

pretty much

Almo

that sounded like saying you needed xna cause you were in VS :)

anyway, new APIs aren't always that hard to learn

SpartanDonut

Unity is very different

And is an apples / oranges comparison against XNA

Almo

if xna's deadness worries you, maybe look at monogame for a bit and see if you get along with it

Shroeder

How does unity work, when I opened it up I was so overwhelmed, I didn't even find out where you actually code...

Almo

the thing you opened is mainly the Unity "editor" which is where you lay out scenes and compose objects

Shroeder

2:57 PM

I just saw a big open space with a camera and used a few dlls to drop some models in that environment.

Almo

you can do the coding with visual studio: we do.

Shroeder

How do you link the two?

Almo

Edit->Preferences->External Tools

select Visual Studio

Lasse

@Shroeder After you have programmed with several game / rendering APIs, you'll notice that they are all somewhat similar, and it gets even easier to learn new apis when you get to know more apis

Shroeder

Ok

Almo

2:58 PM

if you go with that, then you'll want UnityVS, a plugin now owned by MS that allows VS to breakpoint debug code running in the unity editor.

very useful, and free

Shroeder

I am happy with visual studio until I came across articles today saying xna was dead...

user92578

@Almo does it work with express?

SpartanDonut

@Shroeder You keep saying one thing but don't really mean it...

Lasse

I use UnityVS at work, and while it sometimes work sometimes it does not break on the thrown exceptions :(

Almo

but visual studio != XNA

XNA is just an API for doing stuff

Visual Studio is a programming environment

@Lasse yeah it's not perfect :(

Shroeder

3:00 PM

Hmm

SpartanDonut

How will I do SharePoint development now that XNA is dead D:

Almo

And don't connect the debugger to a unity instance while it's compiling crash

Lasse

@SpartanDonut all this web programming took a dive when XNA went dead

Shroeder

Without Visual Studio you can still develop XNA effectively?

Almo

@SpartanDonut WITH SDL

You can do TONS of stuff with Visual Studio without XNA. there's no doubt of that.

SpartanDonut

3:01 PM

@Shroeder I don't think you know what you are asking

Almo

I have not used XNA, so I can't comment on what it's like to work with without VS.

SpartanDonut

XNA being dead does not kill Visual Studio

Shroeder

Well if XNA is dead, what alternative's are there in the Visual Studio environment

To program games

Almo

TONS

Lasse

@Shroeder monogame

Almo

3:01 PM

you could use SDL and develop with VS

Shroeder

Monogame runs in Visual Studio?

Almo

VS is just a programming environemtn

Lasse

yes

Shroeder

So how does that work

Almo

I don't think "Monogame runs in VS" is a statement that makes sense.

SpartanDonut

3:02 PM

Unity, Monogame, Native DirectX and OpenGL, UnrealEngine 4, UDK, Torque, and everything in between

Almo

stuff does not "run in VS"

Lasse

You install monogame and start using it in visual studio

Jon

lol..

user92578

SDL, SFML

Shroeder

So monogame is a library?

Like Xna?

Almo

3:02 PM

VS builds and compiles code, and will attach to running executables and debug them

Lasse

yes

user92578

Does OpenTK have it's own rendering or does it just offer an OpenGL surface?

Lasse

OpenTK is a C# wrapper for opengl

Shroeder

Why does MonoGame exist if it is identical to XNA?

Almo

because it's not controlled by Microsoft.

user92578

3:03 PM

because XNA is dead

user92578

+ multiplatform

Lasse

@Shroeder XNA was not open-source, and it did not run on the cross-platform mono. Monogame uses the XNA's API and works on mono too, so it is now succeeding XNA

Shroeder

So logically I should be switching to Monogame?

SpartanDonut

Monogame is, in essence, an open source implementation of XNA

Lasse

if you like XNA, then yes monogame would be logical choise

SpartanDonut

3:04 PM

@Shroeder it wouldn't hurt. Give it a shot and see if it does everything you need it to

As I said, everything from XNA is not 100% implemented and working with the content pipeline can be a little painful, though maybe this has improved since I last tried it.

Shroeder

I'm assuming there are some syntax differences?

user92578

nope

SpartanDonut

Not really

user92578

no syntax is altered from a library

user92578

syntax == language thing

SpartanDonut

3:05 PM

monogame.net

Shroeder

I imagine having compile time errors if i took my game made in xna and tried to use monogame with it

Almo

that's not due to syntax though

user92578

yeah

Shroeder

Does monogame have an editor?

I need to be able to create reusable sprites, using gimp for every animation sux

Jon

Monogame is an open source implementation of XNA

Lasse

3:07 PM

no

Jon

you said you only know XNA.. well you technically already know monogame

SpartanDonut

Needing reusable sprites doesn't really have much to do with what tool you use to create them in

Almo

I think you're confused about what a library is, what an IDE is, what a language is, what an API is...

SpartanDonut

You can make reusable sprites in Gimp

Shroeder

Hold up

Jon

3:08 PM

you can make resusable sprites on your iphone

SpartanDonut

I'm actually not sure what a reusable sprite is now that I think about it

How is a sprite not reusable

Shroeder

Let me stop you for a sec

Almo

which is not saying anything bad, these things can be hard to seperate if you haven't used enough different systems to recognize where the different parts begin and end

SpartanDonut

I REFUSE TO STOP

Almo

STAHP

Jon

3:08 PM

lol

SpartanDonut

I AM LIKE THE ENGERGIZER BUNNY

wait

Lasse

I fell in love with inkscape when I found out about it, a bit easier to produce assets with it than with gimp

Shroeder

I think I need to make a 3D model, that has multiple joints and shit, then render it in my 2D environment and be able to apply rotation and movements on joints

Lasse

but that's just because I'm an engineer and I understand vectors and curves

Shroeder

That would require Unity or something of the likes?

SpartanDonut

3:09 PM

It would probably be easier to implement in something like Unity but it wouldn't require Unity or something similar

Shroeder

K

Right now to create a new enemy I have to manually draw 16 images

Almo

Unity is not a 3d modeller

Shroeder

Whereas I would like to draw one object, and be done with it

Jon

Spriter

SpartanDonut

It honestly sounds like you want to create a 3D game with 2D gameplay?

Shroeder

3:11 PM

I want a 2D game without having to create sprite sheets

SpartanDonut

using 3d models....

Shroeder

However that is achieves the easiest

Almo

o_0

Shroeder

I need a good 16-30 hours per enemy

user92578

so skeletal animation?

Jon

3:11 PM

►

Shroeder

Thats too much time in my opinion

SpartanDonut

I'm with Jon on this one

Shroeder

Spriter?

SpartanDonut

Spriter is a good tool but the overall general concept is what I mean

Lasse

@Shroeder That's damn fast if you ask me. The pro graphic designers at my job aren't that fast

SpartanDonut

3:12 PM

Which as Tyyppi said is skeletal animation, basically

user92578

Basicaly you draw the body parts of a character, and the rotate each one independetly and draw the independently to compose a character

SpartanDonut

You will need sprites for the body parts but then in game or using a tool to generate sprite sheets (such as spriter), you can use skeletal animation

user92578

Or just export the animation data to a file and use that to draw your parts

Shroeder

skeletal animation eh

SpartanDonut

@Tyyppi_77 ya that too :)

Shroeder

3:14 PM

I regret making an rpg

way too much shit

may have to start over:(

Jon

maybe you shouldn't of put shit in the game.

user92578

or make stuff simpler at start

Shroeder

@Jon huh?

SpartanDonut

It was a joke

because you said "way too much shit"

Shroeder

O

K I'll look into skeletal animation tonight

hopefully its not too intimidating

Jon

3:16 PM

look into inverse kinematic spline interpolation

Shroeder

you lost me at into

SpartanDonut

Just download Spriter and play with it

for starters

user92578

6295 errors! A new record!

Shroeder

ok

SpartanDonut

See if that sort of thing fits your needs

user92578

3:17 PM

+ 800 warnings!

SpartanDonut

Then you can get into more advanced stuff like Jon just mentioned

Jon

►

Almo

Personally, I would totally not make an RPG as my first game.

way too many things to get sidetracked on

Shroeder

Hindsight 20/20 yeah I know:P

an ARPG nontheless

Jon

heh

SpartanDonut

3:19 PM

My jam game took way too long to make xD

Shroeder

But man, so sexy getting my uniques to drop

SpartanDonut

I had no clue making 30 rooms, all as similar as they were, would take so much work

Almo

first thing I released was an Othello clone with an AI

theodor.lauppert.ws/games/flip-o-matic.htm

Shroeder

Its to the point now where I get caught up playing the game when I am debugging it:P

Whats up with this Project Spark?

Almo

can't seem to find any pictures of it :(

Shroeder

3:20 PM

Is this what Microsoft came up with after buying minecraft

Jon

did someone say they'd like me to add an ocean??

Almo

I didn't say that :)

Shroeder

@Jon were you the one making those trees a couple weeks ago

Almo

but if you do be prepared for all sorts of feedback on how you can tweak what the water looks like :)

Jon

yah

Shroeder

3:23 PM

lets see the end result

Jon

well, i have an issue with my floodfill @Almo

i get stack overflow if I have like... a very large area

Almo

floodfill... i wrote one of those once. In BASIC on C64. Implemented a means of recursion on my own using an array to mark where it had been

I was pretty proud of that. I think I was 14 or 15 at the time

Jon

Yes... it is fine.. it is just that the stack overflows when it iterates too deeply.

Almo

oh :(

Jon

So I was thinking of exiting at a certain level.. and then starting a new fill

SpartanDonut

3:25 PM

@Shroeder Projet Spark has been in the works for quite some time

Almo

that's a good idea

Jon

well..

when you first think about it yeah

But then think about the areas that might of been cornered

anyways, its not that important..

►

Almo

some times, the only good response to a code puzzle is WTF

18

Q: Jumblers vs Rebuilders: Coding with Tetris Bricks

In traditional Tetris, there are 7 distinct tetromino bricks, each denoted by a letter similar to its shape. # # # # # ## # # ### ## ## # ## ## ## # ## ## I O L J T Z S Consider the arrangements of these bricks that can make a solid W×H rectan...