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4:01 PM
@MikeFal sooooo???
 
JNK
@AaronBertrand how can I trace it? With an actual trace job?
 
@JNK you have my +1
 
@JNK sure, server-side trace that captures all SQL:StmtCompleted and SP:Completed in both databases
And make sure login is part of the column set
Even if login doesn't change it would still be a useful exercise to see all of the things that are getting called and some of the parameters for the call that leads to the exception that you don't get from the exception itself.
 
0
Q: Performance Hit when upgrading to Oracle 11gr2

Jonathan NeffA question was earlier posted, but then closed by Jack Douglas because he stated it was not a real question. I am having the same issue as the person who originally posted the question and I don't know how it could be stated any more clearly. So to say it's not a real question makes no sense. ...

k?
 
JNK
@AaronBertrand cool trying now
 
4:15 PM
@MarkStorey-Smith that'll be a fun edit
 
@ypercube thanks, I'm at the office now so I just didn't get around to tidying up the question — SpaceghostAli 1 min ago
That's funny because I'm at the office as well and therefore didn't have time to read your fucking mind.
 
@Zane flag........
 
@BrentOzar is on an @AaronBertrand wind-up mission with the latest DBA Reactions
 
JNK
@AaronBertrand so it's definitely running as sa according to the trace
 
@JNK why do you say it's db_owner? it shouldn't matter as long as it's sysadmin on the machine..
isn't your SA the one?
 
JNK
4:23 PM
yes
I checked that it had db_owner role as well
 
@JNK doesn't really need it :).
 
@bluefeet probably.
 
JNK
well I don't know that :) Obviously sql security is not my strongest point
 
@JNK it's simple. Sysadmin for SQL Server is like machine admin on the OS. It can do everything. No other permissions needed.
 
JNK
except sometimes not, as my scenario indicates
 
4:31 PM
@JNK well it is an exception, I'd say. Usually it's doing what it wants :-).
now, some cheap shots: 1. is your db TRUSTWORTHY?
2. do you use anywhere proxies (based on some credentials without proper permissions)?
 
@AaronBertrand Could this (JNK's) issue be related to the TRUSTWORTHY Property?
 
JNK
no it's not trustworthy
we use proxies in sql agent but not in this process
 
@ypercube my first thought, too, I would give it a try.
@ypercube well, sorry I've hurt your feelings, I'll remove my message :)
 
Sorry for that. 5-yo kid interference.
 
JNK
lol
 
4:36 PM
@JNK if it's on a dev machine, try it pls.
 
JNK
set which db to trustworthy?
my source or my refernced db?
 
@JNK I'd set both of them. but first the XYZ (the reference).
 
JNK
same thing with trustworthy
....
 
@JNK restart the server
:)
 
JNK
no can do
 
4:40 PM
We are going to be hashing some sensitive data (ssn) as well as encrypting it. The hash will be for apps that just need to match data and we'll only allow a few things to decrypt it. Since computing a hash of all possible SSNs isn't that complex, we are going to add a salt value prior to hashing.
The question becomes, how would you manage sharing the salt value between teams/apps/etc Or do you?
Lazy me says hardcode it and be done
 
JNK
@billinkc perfect question for security.se
 
Someone insert a frowny face emoticon
 
@billinkc hash AND encrypt? Why both?
Some nuts regulatory requirement?
 
The HR folks will need to actually get the SSNs of people for some report so we need to undo whatever we do
The hash, since we're storing as ascii, will take less disk and should provide a mechanism for diverse things to determine is it a match (whenever they need to sync up between system a and b)
They have silly requirements here that level 3 data must be encrypted at rest and in flight. That's reasonable but it's silly because that only applies to new stuff. All this PII data is stored unencrypted and all the legacy apps just pull and store it in the clear but all the new needs to follow the rules
 
@JNK another cheap shot -> do you have any other trigger there (that might be fired after the 1st one)?
 
JNK
4:48 PM
nope
and trace tells me nothing else fires
 
Oh hooray, an answer without my asking
202
A: How to store salt?

PolynomialTL;DR - You can store the salt in plaintext without any form of obfuscation or encryption, but don't just give it out to anyone who wants it. The reason we use salts is to stop precomputation attacks, such as rainbow tables. These attacks involve creating a database of hashes and their plainte...

 
JNK
I have doomed transaction detection in my called sproc
so it hits the error and trips that, and it's the next thing to run in the trace
 
@billinkc that's a book, not an answer
 
I mean, I need to ask the same question. Why would I do my homework
@Marian If it's long, it's gotta be good
 
JNK
security.se has some great and interesting posts
 
4:53 PM
Security, much like sql server internals, is something that I try to avoid looking at as I know going down that rabbit hole is going to occupy a great deal of time.
Plus the maths hurt my head
 
@swasheck Sooooo?
@billinkc Sounds like my take on things like predictive analysis.
 
@MikeFal the test.
 
@swasheck passed with a 727. I was sweating bullets, but that's done now.
 
JNK
im starting to think my broker is just effed up now
I had to make 330 code changes this week
 
Yikes
ALTER DATABASE db SET NEW_BROKER
 
4:59 PM
why can we not alter user defined table types?
 
@bluefeet user defined types?
 
@bluefeet if they're in use you have a pretty big trickle-down effect.
 
pain
 
@AaronBertrand oh, yes! had to recreate every object using it :)
 
@MikeFal nice work! i knew you had it in you
 
5:00 PM
@MikeFal congrats!
 
@Marian that is what I just did
 
@bluefeet but it's good that you can't change them without changing all the objects that reference them. Just like SCHEMABINDING for a function or view.
Also allows you to create a different table type, and introduce it gradually to existing code, instead of wholesale swap. I think it's a good thing,
then once you've stopped using the old version in all of your code, you can just drop it.
 
@bluefeet Yes, I had originally envisions all this user defined table type reuse until I ran into that snag. Now, even if my UDTT are identical if they are used by different procs, I bite the bullet and make "duplicates"
 
ugh
0
Q: Scalar Functions Used Together Timeout

E-MaddUsing either of the following functions alone perform well (dbo.getCorrectInventoryKey(Inventory_Key) and dbo.getEntityFullName2(Inventory_Key, '.')), but when used together (dbo.getEntityFullName2(dbo.getCorrectInventoryKey(Inventory_Key), '.')) the query never returns... CREATE function [db...

@billinkc you shouldn't need to do that unless both (a) and (b) are true: (a) they are likely to change AND (b) the changes will affect the different procedures differently
Recompiling one stored procedure or five stored procedures to reference a new TVP is not really any different.
(At least in terms of risk.)
 
@AaronBertrand It was a SOX boogeyman issue. ZOMG, 10 procs are included in this change. You said you were only changing one thing. "Well, it's not really but I have to drop and recreate b/c of this dependency"
 
5:04 PM
@AaronBertrand that's nasty
 
@AaronBertrand it's so beautiful....
 
@AaronBertrand nice, the OP believes UDFs are like math: function (function (param))
 
@billinkc well that's like my wheel warranty - if I take advantage of one or two wheels, they do it on the spot; if it's three or all four, they have to call in an adjuster to inspect the wheels. Red tape for the sake of it.
 
5:22 PM
But don't you feel moar secure?
 
@billinkc this warranty is just about keeping them scuff-free etc., not a safety thing
(Like if my wife rubs the wheel against a curb and scrapes some chrome off.)
They fix them for free, but only if it's <= 2 at the time of service.
Doesn't matter the nature of the "fix" - just like your stored procedures that only change to reference a different TVP name.
 
That's irrelevant because no matter the context it never returns, but use of the functions together is noted at the top... dbo.getEntityFullName2(dbo.getCorrectInventoryKey(Inventory_Key), '.') — E-Madd 12 mins ago
i say this is a VtC candidate
 
5:44 PM
@bluefeet I made a comment that will hopefully help him a bit.
I'm incredibly surprised that there was no @AaronBertrand comment on that nightmare.
 
Sorry, some days I'm too busy to try and shine the light for folks
If someone feels they want to dust off the cobwebs on a 2000 instance, this might be worth dragging over here:
0
Q: is there a possibility to run sys.dm_exec_sql_text in sql server 2000

user1063108Does any know if this query can be converted and run in sql 2000 SELECT deqs.last_execution_time AS [Time], dest.TEXT AS [Query] FROM sys.dm_exec_query_stats AS deqs CROSS APPLY sys.dm_exec_sql_text(deqs.sql_handle) AS dest WHERE dest.TEXT like '%sp_OACreate%' ORDER BY deqs.last_execution_time D...

 
I really want to know why they are still using 2000. I know most companies are behind on SQL versions but good grief.
 
6:00 PM
@Zane there are many reasons ... most of them political ... why an organization would stay so far down
 
@swasheck You are limited to how many chat messages you get a day. You better keep that in mind
-19
Q: Stackoverflow chat proposal

okokplaying with my biggest friends in the javascript chat, came to my mind, but why the chat can not be limited and therefore benefit users who write less using the following logic: Probably this post will take up many downvotes, cause sort of chat's elites do not agree this, but this will ma...

not sure why anyone would need more than 1k a day
 
@bluefeet this is getting personal
 
@swasheck :)
 
1000 chat messages a day - and he wants to bank them so he can get more. Holy christ, go get some air.
 
@AaronBertrand remember back when rollover minutes were a big deal?
 
6:04 PM
@swasheck I am sure I chat more than you some days
 
@bluefeet flagged
 
@bluefeet that can't be true
 
@swasheck meanie
 
@swasheck too soon
 
both of you ... shut up. i dont really chat that much, do i? if so ... i'll leave here too ... just to prove you rong
 
6:07 PM
@swasheck I'll stop. Don't leave you'll break my heart
2
 
@swasheck nooooooooooo
 
@bluefeet unbreak my heart. hahah
we're on a freeze so i get to just tweak some sys.dm_os_ scripts and chat
 
Holy crap I'm way higher than I should be. Back to work I guess.
 
Stack Overflow has a place for questions. Incidentally that place for questions has existed since the private beta! OMG it is so ooooold! I know it is surprising, but it is the truth! Check this out: stackoverflow.com/questions! So many questions! It's like, millions! How come people have been posting questions in the place for questions all this time! That is very surprising, given that that place is labelled "Questions"! No one would think it is the place for questions! And look at this: stackoverflow.com/questions/ask! You can post even more! OMG This is so exciting. — R. Martinho Fernandes 33 mins ago
Somebody give this man a cookie, or something
 
6:13 PM
@Zane hey, you, come bacl here
 
@swasheck you keep good company sir ;-)
 
Auto-kill all questions that don't contain a question mark in the body! Because, you know, I can't state a problem if I don't ask in the form of a question!
-3
Q: Detect if there was actually a question asked through interrogation sign `?`

Frank Presencia FandosI can see many 'questions' without a proper question in the body at any point I come to SO. Except for the code (<?php ?>), why don't we detect if the whole question contains an interrogation sign "?" ? If it doesn't contain an interrogation sign, we can: Strongly advice users to write an actu...

 
Also, since you're the first one to break 15k messages in this room alone, I think you know what the attitude in this room should be ;-)
 
mwahahahaha unlimited powahz
he can now kick people, and pin stuff.
wooooooooo
 
6:15 PM
wow! cool!
 
@swasheck congrats on your new powers
use them wisely
but, well, you are yoda, so
 
Looks like it's time to start being nice to @swasheck.....
 
elbow elbow wrist wrist
 
@StackExchange wow
hahaha
0
A: Stackoverflow chat proposal

tereskoWhat the OP is suggesting would: reward help vampires punish regular users That's about it. Why would he want to do this? Because he is a troll and a help vampire: http://chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/17?m=9239651#9239651 http://chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/17?m=9227286#9227286 ...

 
@StackExchange oh lord, now the chats will be auto-banned :(
 
6:27 PM
Can we see how many posts we have in a chat room?
 
@ypercube on the link swasheck provided, on the bottom right corner of your user's tile
 
6:39 PM
0
Q: Mysql date_sub last 7 days result?

DineshIn mysql i am trying to get last 7 days data so i tried with following query date_sub(curdate(), interval 7 day) <= visited_time from visitor table gives date from 5/10/2013 to 5/16/2013 but here the same query date_sub(curdate(), interval 7 day) <= date_entered from order table gives date fro...

Voted to close as off-topic
 
Anyone have any explicit examples of things <insert your favorite ORM here> can't do, and that you'd have to use stored procedures for?
I seem to remember one of the Linqs had no capability to run an outer join, for example.
 
@bluefeet I can't see any of that guys links....
 
@Zane I can't either, they are all blocked
 
I really wanted to see those examples too...
 
6:54 PM
@Zane I used my iphone, they are interesting
 
JNK
so my broker app WAS messed up but that wasn't causing the permissions issue
im sort of at a loss
@AaronBertrand I think they have issues with more advanced stuff like windowing functions
 
@JNK well is there even a way to specify a window function result in any way using say Linq2Sql or EF code first?
 
@AaronBertrand Many require a single column PK in all tables.
 
My post is going to be about something else, but I wanted to mention a few explicit examples that defy the logic "we don't need stored procedures because we're using an ORM!"
So I'm looking for explicit examples of things where they'll have to use stored procedures (or some middle translation layer).
 
@bluefeet I read them and came to the conclusion that I love you guys. lol Lets never ever venture to another SE chat.
 
7:10 PM
I love this from earlier
> Nag them with banners, popup and unicorns so they know how to vote?
-6
Q: Should we do something to get an active user to vote at least once?

DavRob60I encountered an Established User, quite active on scifi.stackexchange, who still had some quality problems. Looking at his profile, I realized he has not voted a single time. That surprised me! How could one be active on a Stack Exchange site and not vote a single time? Not even on the answer ...

 
ugh
-1
Q: Calculate date difference based on column value on same table

ShankarI have the following table structure with ID, State and Date 20130323000004 Final 3/23/2013 20130323000004 Final 3/25/2013 20130323000004 Final 3/26/2013 20130323000004 Needs Review 4/5/2013 20130323000004 Final 4/10/2013 20130323000004 Final 5/1/2013 ...

I'm so glad I've been able to resist the urge to try to help these people with their terribly explained problems
 
7:30 PM
not sql but please VtC
-1
Q: Which is the BEST Winforms Pivot Control?

user715993I need to design an winforms application at work making use of a Pivot Grid control. The following are the contestants: Telerik PivotGrid ComponentOne OLAP for Winforms Active Analysis DevExpress PivotGrid Which one should I suggest and what are the pro's and con's of each? I would like to ...

 
Do any ORMs not support stored procedures at all?
 
7:42 PM
Sub sonic?
That seems to ring a bell.
 
8:09 PM
@JNK how often does the data in your other table change? Wonder if you could subvert the issue with an ugly workaround, e.g. simply adding a trigger that repeats DML actions against a copy in the same database as the broker procedure.
(Or keeping that table in the same database in the first place, and putting the synonym in the other direction.)
 
JNK
well they want this check as a fallback
So the table the trigger is on stores accounting info
the table we check has a list of clients
 
Right, but can't you replicate that list of clients in some way?
 
JNK
maybe
can you make an FK to synonym?
 
It doesn't necessarily have to be the copy that is in database XYZ.
 
JNK
there are already 4 copies of this table I think they want to avoid replicating it again
 
8:11 PM
No, no FK across databases, doesn't matter if you hide it by a synonym or not.
 
JNK
the copy I'm connecting to is actually a 3rd tier copy already
 
4, 5, what's the diff?
So why not have the original table replicate to the place where you need it?
 
JNK
they don't want any more replication on that table either
 
Anyway, just a workaround I thought I'd throw out there. If it doesn't help, sorry.
 
JNK
I mean I have to get them to do SOEMTHINg
 
8:12 PM
@bluefeet I have an answer already for that :)
 
JNK
NP I appreciate it
and all the help so far
 
@bluefeet my only SO real answer
 
JNK
im pretty pissed actually
 
5
A: Embedded BI for ASP.NET

MarianI know it's a late answer, but I hope it's useful for someone. I made a short evaluation on some ASP.NET OLAP controls that have the possibility of displaying Analysis Services data in a web page. I didn't have anything in mind, just that all calculations should not be done by the client, but on...

 
JNK
can I vent a second? :)
the only way users can access this table is through an updateable view
the view filters on a UDF that returns a list of accounts the person has access to
so there's no way to insert a bad account anyways
 
8:14 PM
Sounds like too many auditors / chicken littles
 
JNK
but the lead insisted I add this and it was like 2 hours of work because of how we do errors inside this application
this is related to that thing you helped with yesterday with the TVF
what a bitch that was
so now I get this thing working but it breaks security
he lead MADE all the dbs I'm accessing
he designed the security structure and reviewed every line of code in this entire code base
and he tells me he can't help me at all with this
fist shake
 
I don't know what to tell you, sounds like a process / bureaucracy problem more than a technical one.
 
JNK
yeah it is
I'm just going to comment out the goddamn check and see what happens
I wasted a day on this already
 
Tell him if he wants that auditing in place, he can help make it work
 
JNK
I will
I'm just disabling it for now and when he can help we will get it working
 
8:17 PM
Well I miss my daughter, I'm going to go pick her up early.
 
JNK
cool have fun
I miss my boys and am leaving at 5:00:00 to get them
 
JNK
@swasheck pretty much
 
I've been prohibited from uploading any more public pics of Madeline. Too many pervs out there I guess.
 
JNK
lol
these are on our blog alrady
 
8:19 PM
how disappointing
 
JNK
don't you have a blog for her too?
 
Seriously, I uploaded those swim class pics last weekend (to her blog) and someone on facebook commented "We're not even allowed to have cameras at swim class because of all the pervs". Five minutes later my wife called me and said "That's it!"
 
JNK
My wife doesn't know I put these in chat ;)
she puts them on FB though
all of our family is like 500 miles away
 
My wife wouldn't either. But some d*ck would probably find out and then send her a screenshot just to get me castrated.
She wants to set up an uber-private group on FB and only post there. I've been trying to explain to her that WordPress doesn't work that way.
 
JNK
lol
I mean honestly I don't care if someone looks at my kids
they are cute kids
 
8:22 PM
She's afraid of scary people who find Madeline cute and then show up at our house in the middle of the night.
 
JNK
I mean are you posting her picture and your address and your schedule?
 
I mean you always have to be afraid of that, but that person is just as likely to follow us home from the zoo or the mall. Actually more likely.
 
JNK
Anyone who wants my kids is welcome to come try their luck
 
@JNK well these things are not all that hard to accumulate.
 
JNK
@AaronBertrand yeah this is true too
 
8:24 PM
But if I tell her about that we'll start taking her out with a paper bag over her head.
 
JNK
Well she's a wife and a mother so she doesn't have to be reasonable
 
That's true, I think they give that requirement up when they put on the ring.
 
JNK
how old is Madeline now?
 
Ok seriously out now.
 
JNK
ok later
 
8:24 PM
Almost 8 months
 
JNK
nice. OK get outta here
 
8:51 PM
 
@MarkStorey-Smith HA! Oh, the column/field/row/record thing, I suppose.
 
JNK
@BrentOzar yep!
this one
and the candle too I think
 
I went back through the reactions to guess, heh. I don't even bother trying to get that stuff right anymore.
 
JNK
I really don't notice it TBH
I know what people mean
If someone says field I don't think they are growing corn in their database
 
Same as active/passive - we gotta give up on that kind of stuff. It's embedded in the field, everybody thinks that way.
 
8:59 PM
@BrentOzar i was noting that i get funny looks when i say "multi-instance failover cluster" ... i have to backtrack and say "y'know ... active/active?"
 
Yeah. Nobody, nobody gets multi-instance.
 
but it makes me sound like i know what i'm talking about :)
 
Bah....animated gifs do not belong in chat!
 
they
need
to
go
 
@MikeFal shut up! they were put there by an owner of the room!
:)
 
9:10 PM
off
my
screen
right
now
that's
better!
:)
 
@bluefeet I delete the node from Chrome
 
STUPID ACCENTS!!!!!!!!!!! WHY MUST YOU USE TONOS INSTEAD OF OXIA??!?!?!111??11
 
Though I shouldn't have to! /shakefist
 
:9462831 @JackDouglas has a really good link that satisfies the requiements for this answer
 
@swasheck Btw, I won't be at the meeting proper tonight, but hopefully should be at beer.
 
9:14 PM
@MikeFal i will not be there either. my wife won free drinks and taco bar at the re-opening of the patio at a local swanky eatery.
mojito, caipirinha
D.C. al Fine
 
@swasheck You're chance to work/schmooze Brandon a little post-interview and you're hanging with your wife? LAME.
 
@MikeFal free booze is important
 
@MikeFal yeah. i'm torn but i ultimately have to hope that brandon either sees potential in me, or didnt and that schmoozing wouldnt really influence him. i also have to spend some time with the frau since we've been going 100 MPH over the last 3 weeks.
 
@MikeFal some of us can't use Chrome at work.
 
9:34 PM
this is probably the longest ms access answer I have ever provided
0
A: Sum of columns grouped by its row value

bluefeetYou will want to UNPIVOT the data using a UNION ALL first, then apply a PIVOT/TRANSFORM: transform sum(val) select col from ( SELECT 'Col1' as col, Col1 as Val FROM test union all SELECT 'Col2' as col, Col2 as Val FROM test union all SELECT 'Col3' as col, Col3 as Val FROM test ...

 
9:51 PM
@swasheck Naw, it's cool man. Priorities and all.
 
@MikeFal well since i just got my official offer then i guess he'll let it slide
 
@swasheck Offer from Oppenheimer?
 
mmhmmm
 
Woot! Congratulations! Told you your interview was probably fine.
 
@swasheck congrats
 
10:00 PM
@MikeFal i dont know if you actually said anything to Brandon, but thanks.
 
@swasheck Nope
 
@bluefeet thanks. it'll probably drive down my chattiness
@MikeFal well thanks nonetheless
 
@swasheck congrats!!
 
All I said was a heads up initially to give your resume consideration for an interview. You did the rest.
 
@swasheck its all in fun! :)
 
10:00 PM
@swasheck Tha'ts not good man
 
@bluefeet i know ... i just said what i said in jest
 
@BrentOzar meh, I don't agree that it's ok to just dismiss semantics and pretend they don't exist. :-)
 
@Lamak well ... you know ... don't want to go to a new employer and spend their money on my chat time
 
Though I am not quite as anal about it as Allan.
 
@swasheck well....I'll respect that for your first week at work
 
10:03 PM
He's just uppity when he hears the term. I stress row vs. record and column vs. field because of what they imply and the kind of misperceptions that take place as a result.
I don't understand the purpose of the IsInactive flag here. In the article he even describes that you can tell if a row is active/inactive based on the start/end date.
That said I will admit that I skimmed the article to some degree. :-)
@BrentOzar and just to sum up, I think you can use the correct terms consistently, without feeling the need to correct everyone on the Internet. If an expert like you says field and record all the time, everyone who follows you is going to do it too. :-(
All right Indian food and then hockey. Not sure when I'll be back in here.
 
@AaronBertrand my plan is beer and possibly sleep
 
 
1 hour later…
11:37 PM
So I thought Chicago traffic was bad. 405 is just dumb
 
JNK
oh yeah LA is legendary
 
we got rodeo dr in
outlet shopping
tried out in and out burger
 
00:00 - 16:0016:00 - 00:00

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