The Heap™ – Consultancy ©® - 2012-12-10 (page 2 of 2)

9:00 PM

@swasheck Yeah, people start gathering at 5:30 PM, meeting proper starts at 6 PM. We're usually done by 8 PM, hitting Darcy's for beer around 8:30 PM.

swasheck

@jcolebrand nice touch

Because you're much more likely to have success with this particular programming related question on Stack Overflow than on Database Administrators I'm shoving your question over there. We are all about getting the best eyes on questions, and unfortunately for you, this site caters to folks who have to devote entire servers to databases, not really the kind that fit on my 10 year old USB keys ... :-\ So off you go to Stack Overflow and better eyeballs for your troubles. — jcolebrand 9 mins ago

@MikeFal can't commit to much ... but i may be able to do it quarterly. family considerations and such

jcolebrand

@swasheck I felt it might have been a tad denigrating

Mike Fal

@swasheck Totally understand, many people are in similar situations. Get on the mailing list and we'll keep you appraised of what's going on.

Zane

@swasheck it appears unfortunately that you cannot view execution plan by date

jcolebrand

@MikeFal this comment makes me curious if you're a "name" in dba-land?

swasheck

9:05 PM

@MikeFal so registering ... does that put me on the mailing list?

@jcolebrand perhaps. but i appreciated it

Mike Fal

@jcolebrand Sorry, not sure which comment you're referring to, but I don't think I'm a "name".

@swasheck It should. The list isn't spammy, just 2-3 a month to make sure folks are aware of the upcoming meeting and other events that might be going on.

swasheck

@MikeFal that's fine. i dont care about spam - i signed up with my work email so "meh"

jcolebrand

@MikeFal the comments are back-linked for the readers benefit on replies

Specifically "get on the mailing list and we'll keep you appraised"

Is this for a local meetup is all?

swasheck

it's official. we're playing chicken with the feds

thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/marijuana/…

Mike Fal

@jcolebrand Ah....sorry, haven't really used the chat functionality on this site. No, I'm just active in the Denver SQL Users group and @swasheck is a local. Trying to get him to attend.

Though, starting January '13, I'll be on the Denver SQL group's board, arranging speakers.

swasheck

9:09 PM

@MikeFal all glenn berry all the time?

(just kidding)

Mike Fal

@swasheck Heh, I wish, though he shows up pretty regularly. Also, he's apparently trying to get Kehayias(sp?) out here to speak.

swasheck

@MikeFal i'd sacrifice family time for that

Mike Fal

@swasheck This last year, though, we've had Kevin Kline and Steve Jones come through. We usually get good speakers.

jcolebrand

damnit @swasheck go get locally involved

Mike Fal

Yes. Start showing up and then I can work on you to present. :D

swasheck

9:13 PM

@MikeFal nice. can we get @SQLKiwi out here? it'd really only take him 36 hours of actual travel time just to arrive

@MikeFal madness

Mike Fal

Might be able to get @SQLKiwi to present remotely.....

swasheck

@jcolebrand mmm. i suppose i should start using SQL Server for my pet projects

but that means learning ASP.NET MVC 4 or whatever it's on by now

and i do love my python

jcolebrand

@swasheck you know you can get a free copy from Microsoft? ;-) Not enterprise capable, of course

@swasheck You know you can use python and MS SQL server right?

swasheck

@jcolebrand sure. i have it

@jcolebrand yeah ... i know

jcolebrand

So what are you complaining about?

swasheck

9:16 PM

nothing. just making a statement of fact.

jcolebrand

You can even experience the joy of IronRuby if you're truly masochistic

But why would you have to learn ASP.NET MVC4?

swasheck

erm ... no thanks. ruby scares me

jcolebrand

(which is awesomesauce for C# devs)

swasheck

@jcolebrand i have to create compelling presentations of my datanerdness to the great unwashed, right?

isnt the web that medium?

i suppose i can write a win8 app that nobody will/can use

SQL Kiwi

@MikeFal I don't do remote presenting. Hate hate hate.

Sorry and all that.

swasheck

9:17 PM

@SQLKiwi so you're saying you'll come to denver?? excellent!

Mike Fal

@SQLKiwi No worries. It's definitely a PITA.

SQL Kiwi

@MikeFal I tried it once, just practicing. Felt ridiculous; didn't enjoy it at all. Love having a live audience in front of me.

@swasheck Um :)

swasheck

@jcolebrand i think that you mistake many of my observations for complaints.

@SQLKiwi would you come if we did the wave in the middle of your presentation?

Mike Fal

@SQLKiwi Yeah, not having the crowd interaction is weird. Did some virtual chapter presos, it's hard to present when you're wondering if people are interested or falling asleep.

SQL Kiwi

@MikeFal Exactly. Plus you never know if the connection is still up, when to explain something a bit more...etc.

@swasheck The "wave"?

Mike Fal

9:20 PM

@swasheck If you want to see @SQLKiwi present, you should just come to the PASS Summit. :)

swasheck

@SQLKiwi thewave

@MikeFal yes. there's that.

SQL Kiwi

@swasheck Ah right. Not sure it matters - I wouldn't be able to see it.

swasheck

@MikeFal next year it's in Charlotte

Mike Fal

@swasheck I know. A bit of a bummer for me, I love Seattle.

Mark Storey-Smith

Awesome, just saw another sledging contributer

swasheck

9:22 PM

@SQLKiwi ah.

jcolebrand

@swasheck this is what I do ;-) I look for complaints and try to resolve them

swasheck

@MarkStorey-Smith but where are the hats

jcolebrand

Hi, I'm a developer for client-oriented software

Mark Storey-Smith

@swasheck YEH, GIMME HATS!

SQL Kiwi

@MarkStorey-Smith Darn it, I keep missing it! I flicked away to check mail.

Mike Fal

9:23 PM

"sledging"?

swasheck

@jcolebrand nice. i tend to diminish and discount peoples' complaints.

@MikeFal (replace the FIRST "g" with a "d" and you'll understand)

jcolebrand

sledgind?

hehe, and cheap laughs were had

Mike Fal

Cheap laughs are still laughs.

swasheck

@jcolebrand as an aside, sledging in cricket sounds awesome

@MikeFal i like the first comment on the announcement of PASS Summit 2013

Not Pleased said on 5/18/2011 8:35 AM:
Congratulations: minimal Microsoft presence and exactly zero direct flights. Baghdad wasn't available?

Mark Storey-Smith

I love that sledding, by Wikipedia's definition " is a common activity in North America". The rest of us are out sledging, as it should be :)

2

@SQLKiwi There went another one, were you paying attention?

SQL Kiwi

9:28 PM

@MarkStorey-Smith I saw it! Yay.

swasheck

@MarkStorey-Smith just as god and the queen intended

SQL Kiwi

Sledging (cricket)

Sledging is a term used in cricket to describe the practice whereby some players seek to gain an advantage by insulting or verbally intimidating the opposing player. The purpose is to try to weaken the opponent's concentration, thereby causing him to make mistakes or underperform. It can be effective because the batsman stands within hearing range of the bowler and certain close fielders; and vice-versa. The insults may be direct or feature in conversations among fielders designed to be overheard. There is debate in the cricketing world as to whether this constitutes poor sportsmanship o...

Fairly common usage in that sense outside cricket here and in Oz

Mike Fal

@SQLKiwi Oh, I'm gonna need to start using that term now.

swasheck

"resolved user issue with a good deal of sledging. closed under 'ridicule' status. do not anticipate further issues."

that's my next resolution entry

SQL Kiwi

Want sqlhelp in more than 140 chars? New Google+ community, check it out http://bit.ly/VMwnCD #sqlpass #sqlserver

Tweeted by SQLChicken on December 10, 2012 at 7:20 PM

(Someone mentioned #sqlhelp earlier)

Thought of course good questions are best asked here

swasheck

9:38 PM

@SQLKiwi LaRock is mod.

SQL Kiwi

He is that.

swasheck

@SQLKiwi i agree that SE is a better format for questions, but #sqlhelp is great for that "oh crap i just broke replication and can't get it back up and it's fiscal year end" moment

SQL Kiwi

No doubt. In all honesty I just like posting links here that expand into pretty graphics.

That's Wikipedia and twitter done.

Zane

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1049210/adding-an-identity-to-an-existing-column
Is this answer accurate is it not possible to add Identity to an existing column?

Cade Roux

@swasheck SE does not work well with questions which require a lot of back and forth (have to use private chat) or which are too localized or not objective enough. I see the attraction of G+Communities for that.

swasheck

9:42 PM

@CadeRoux yeah. that's a good point.

Cade Roux

@swasheck It is something SE refuses to bend its design to, so I wonder how G+ will compare to SE for objective Q&A if people like to go there for "community" because it caters to everything else people want. This is a point I raised before about SE on parenting and gardening. People in those communities do want opinion and chit chat and not a bunch of VtC etc. They are not anal-retentive programmers.

swasheck

@CadeRoux i think that's true for many of the sites. dialog is more important that authoritative answers

Zane

Nevermind that is an infinitely better way of doing it than my thought

swasheck

@Zane are you referring to @MarkStorey-Smith's answer?

Cade Roux

@swasheck It will be interesting to see how it develops. G+ seems rather to be minimized by the facebook and twitter crowd, but I love it. It is very useful for organizing Ingress resistance in our area.

SQL Kiwi

9:52 PM

@Zane In some cases it's possible to use SWITCH

CREATE TABLE #Test (col1 integer NOT NULL);
INSERT #Test VALUES (1), (2), (3);
CREATE TABLE #Test2 (col1 integer NOT NULL IDENTITY);
ALTER TABLE #Test SWITCH TO #Test2;
DROP TABLE #Test;
SELECT * FROM #Test2 AS t;

connect.microsoft.com/SQLServer/feedback/details/252226/…

Open and active since 2007

Oh I see that's already an answer on that question. Never mind.

Mark Storey-Smith

@SQLKiwi I learnt something new today

jcolebrand

@SQLKiwi can we encourage those folks to accumulate here?

SQL Kiwi

@jcolebrand Some of them already do, albeit relatively quietly at the moment (comments rather than answers). Encouragement in the dba.se direction is an ongoing project.

Mark Storey-Smith

@swasheck Dialog is here though, no? Took me a while to find my way into chat but participating on the site is all the more rewarding for having done so.

SQL Kiwi

@MarkStorey-Smith It's a neat trick in suitable circumstances. Too often though the existing column allows NULLs, or there is an FK relationship etc. etc. Nice that it works on Std Edition though, which surprises some people.

Mark Storey-Smith

10:03 PM

@SQLKiwi The script looked like voodoo at first glance, the application of switch in that context just hadn't occurred to me

SQL Kiwi

Sacrificing a chicken upfront is recommended.

Mark Storey-Smith

@SQLKiwi Which reminds me, dinner time!

swasheck

i agree but not all communities have figured out the "chat" thing ... or they're so small that it doesnt seem beneficial at first.

i spend 99.99% of my time on The Heap and then wander out to see what questions the experts have already answered

@MarkStorey-Smith late, no?

Mark Storey-Smith

@swasheck Maybe that's the problem and solution right there.

@swasheck Yeh, I've been attending to paperwork

swasheck

@MarkStorey-Smith you may be onto something :)

Cade Roux

10:06 PM

@swasheck I just keep The Heap open and mainly go to SO and DBA.SE to ask questions. I only answer questions occasionally now - it can be so time consuming and sometimes the original questioner never even indicates they read the answers.

Zane

@swasheck I wen with John's add drop rename method

swasheck

@CadeRoux true

jcolebrand

plus.google.com/communities/109056699832159942034 I need +1s people

Make it look like it's desired ...

plus.google.com/101398995727703278260/posts/9JxHSraaZw6 <-- +1 it! :D

2

That's just me, abusing stars ...

swasheck

@jcolebrand i'll +1 it ... but i also believe that SE and G+ and #sqlhelp are not mutually exclusive tools

jcolebrand

@swasheck I think that using G+ for a Q&A infrastructure is a horrible idea

Might as well use a forum

Do you want to go back to forums?

I can use the chat room to remind you why that's a bad idea (but only cos I'm a mod and can clean up the fallout)

imagine image signatures after everything you read ...

Zane

10:13 PM

Basically each column in this database is suppose to have a code entered in through the web interface. The problem is there is no interface to put in a code. So we are scrapping the feature to let user's put in a code and switching it to a Identity column. The table already has a Unique Identifier I just don't want to bring GUID's into my data warehouse.

jcolebrand

@Zane ugh, that sounds like a bandaid on a poorly designed process on top of a hack propped up by duct tape

2

swasheck

@jcolebrand how is it different than a "long tweet?"

jcolebrand

@swasheck you don't need long tweets either

you need easily found places to ask

stupid word that means what another word means ...

Zane

@jcolebrand if I am to pull from this and store in a dimension table I need to have something to make the record unique and the current key is all GUID'S

Not store Table

swasheck

@jcolebrand oh bother. the heap will always be my first love, but if i can learn/help in another arena then i will use that too. for me it's not about market penetration, but i know that those are things that need to be considered.

jcolebrand

10:23 PM

@swasheck for me it's not about the Stack Exchange Inc reach, because I'm a volunteer. It's about making it easier for you to find the information when you need it. I dare you in three weeks to isolate information on that community (assuming it takes off) about transaction log growth...

We can't just make a new community because somebody wants to play mayor. I'll happily abdicate the title of Janitor or push for there to be another election and let them beg to be made another king Janitor with us.

There has to be a longevity.

I'm just doing this because I like giving back to the community, because the community has saved my ass literally hundreds of times

It's my tiny shred of giving back

swasheck

i get that.

i really do.

jcolebrand

Encouraging the market to shred because somebody thinks G+ is going to be the new hotness to engage people is just silly.

So I'm going to argue against fragmentation

Zane

SQLhelp.myspace.com

swasheck

@jcolebrand i think that's a good line of argumentation

jcolebrand

@Zane I can't tell if you're being silly or what, because I don't use MySpace anymore

but I do know that page doesn't load :p

Max Vernon

10:28 PM

I was a G+ early adopter, and I've deleted my account.

jcolebrand

Bah, why bother deleting accounts?

Max Vernon

Because I hate how Google knows far too much about me. And they want everyone to have a G+ account.

some would call me paranoid

SQL Kiwi

SQL help won't work on G+ but I'm happy to monitor it for the moment in case something interesting comes up. In fact it already did:

plus.google.com/u/0/109724382532189273820/posts/2eVHJy147UF

Zane

@jcolebrand I was joking

SQL Kiwi

Sadly Jack wasn't interested in asking the question here

swasheck

10:32 PM

@jcolebrand btw ... you almost have me sold on converting my pet projects to sql express (over postgresql). what i like about linux + postgresql is the ability to create a (free) amazon micro instance with pg + python and share it with friends. i know i can spin up a micro instance with sql server, but it tends to consume more than allowed and i get charged.

jcolebrand

Who said anything about SqlExpress?

You need to look at the *spark that Microsoft does

dreamspark, bizspark, etc

swasheck

hostspark?

Simon Righarts

@jcolebrand So, business as usual for most places then?

jcolebrand

lulz

Simon Righarts

Working in government has given me a new appreciation for inexplicability - i.e. I have no idea how things don't crash and burn on a daily basis

(duct tape, chewing gum & #8 wire, mostly)

swasheck

10:40 PM

@SimonRigharts every day is an adventure

swasheck

10:54 PM

@MaxVernon my theory is that NetBIOS only "recognizes" up to 16 characters in a server name

SQLSERVER_MACHIN in your case

therefore, A, B, C, D, ... ZZZZZ as suffixes won't matter

Max Vernon

@swasheck interesting. I did try using the existing SQL Server account, which is working for Kerberos in SQL Server 2005. It didn't work either, so I'm not convinced - unless I'm missing something and need a smack!

apparently I need a smak

you were talking about the machine name

swasheck

:)

Simon Righarts

@swasheck As long as I go home on time and the database servers aren't on fire, I count that as a successful day.

jcolebrand

I think the users on the G+ just have a profound distrust of any system, and will run screaming when it isn't their own box, just to hope that it does something better than the previous system ...

swasheck

@SimonRigharts that's all any of us can ask

jcolebrand

10:57 PM

@SimonRigharts wait, you have an on-time?

swasheck

@jcolebrand i think that's a fair assessment

jcolebrand

So far there have been two responses "hey man, let us use this and see if it works, and you can't tell us "told you so" so quit harassing us like you're the man, man"

Simon Righarts

@jcolebrand Yup. Mostly because I actually get paid overtime if they make me stay late, so they don't like me staying late :)

jcolebrand

I just want to take all those people that think fractionalization is good and put them in a room with a SATA 2 RAID Controller, some SCSI Ultra-320 drives, an Athlon board, some Xeon's, a SQL install CD and Oracle's equivalent of SQL's license/CAL package.

And then ask them if lots of diverse systems all working towards the end-goal are really that appreciated

swasheck

@SimonRigharts nice. sybase, right?

jcolebrand

11:01 PM

I get that we have room in the marketplace for Oracle vs MS SQL vs MySQL vs SyBase vs etc.

But do we really have room for each set of devs to silo off by themselves?

dezso

@jcolebrand wait, what would be the task there?

jcolebrand

@dezso sorry, I left off the task didn't I? To stand up a single database sever

swasheck

@jcolebrand people will gravitate toward their tool of preference. there's going to be fragmentation just based on natural human preference and tendency.

jcolebrand

@swasheck note for the record I also hate the 15 or so OSQA sites that compete with the SE network

Primarily because the conversation goes like this:

swasheck

@jcolebrand i know ... and i think that i'm beginning to understand your argument more clearly

Simon Righarts

11:02 PM

@swasheck Yeah, our internal apps (~50% of my workload) are Sybase. I also take point on our SQL Server apps (HR, finance, couple CMSs, stuff like that)

swasheck

it's less about SE being the place to consolidate knowledge and more about figuring out a way to not segregate based on platform. is that correct?

each platform to its own ghetto

@SimonRigharts nice.

jcolebrand

Dude: We should totally get a site like StackExchange for ourselves.
Duder: Totally, but we shouldn't be on the Stack Exchange network because we should monetize.
Dude: Exactly. We can run google-ads and profit all the way to the bank while all our loyal fans come to our site to get help.
Duder: But what if the Stack Exchange guys put up a database site, won't our users leave?
Dude: Why would they leave? They give us money every month. I know, we'll just ignore that site and promote ours everywhere, because the totally earned $200/mo from google-ads is obviously the most important thing in …

dezso

@jcolebrand Oh. I hoped for something interesting :)

swasheck

@MaxVernon then what was this? SQLSERVER_MACHINEA

jcolebrand

@dezso yeah yeah yeah

Simon Righarts

11:04 PM

@swasheck got the 70-461 and -462 kits in front of me (for MS exams), need to pull finger and actually get going

jcolebrand

you stand me up a server using those components, some duct tape, and a bit of mcgyvers skin and we'll be in shape

swasheck

@SimonRigharts i need to do that too

@jcolebrand eye of newt ...

jcolebrand

lol

I realize it's a bad example, but there are plenty of those sites setup right now

what's that asksql mess?

ask.sqlservercentral.com/index.html

It's a blog, and a forum, and a wiki, and a OSQA and a ...

Simon Righarts

@swasheck The amount of setup required for -462 is a bit offputting though, mostly because I don't have VM software installed at home (they want four seperate machines incl. one running Server Core)

jcolebrand

training, books, jobs ...

videos, qotd, ....

swasheck

11:07 PM

@SimonRigharts if you can set it up and get it running then surely you can pass? maybe that's the rationale.

jcolebrand

So AskSqlServerCentral has the first question on record as Oct 2009. In all that time, they've got as many questions asked as we do (to within less than .5% or so) and we started Jan 4, 2011.

That's a full year and a piece longer than us

Oh, and everybody uses OracleOverflow right?

Simon Righarts

@swasheck It's like learning a new programming language back in the days of yore, getting the environment setup so you can actually compile (interpret/parse, whatever) the language is 90% of the work

jcolebrand

I'm kinda a little pissed that that data is gone and we couldn't absorb it

quick, somebody give me another OSQA SQL site :D

swasheck

@jcolebrand which data?

jcolebrand

OracleOverflow

swasheck

11:10 PM

ah

plus.google.com/photos/110405855498539870302/albums/…

@MaxVernon and you've checked surface area to ensure that you're listening on 1433 on the 2012 box ... and you've confirmed that 1433 is not blocked IB/OB on the server, right?

@jcolebrand that would have been nice to have ... but i thought his name was @Phil

jcolebrand

@swasheck pffft, already answered questions are much better

but notice how the OSQA site is gone forever

If only the Stack Overflow questions were gone forever, and not backed by a company that had a vested interest in ensuring they stayed around as long as reasonable, and ...

I tried to reach out to those responsible for OO and never once got an answer

I would've offered to do the translations for SE just to get the data into SE2.0

totally pro-bono

swasheck

well this seems to be pretty relevant

lostquery.com

a barren wasteland

jcolebrand

We should TOTALLY get that site to either shutdown their new feed, or get them to encourage people asking OSQA Q to migrate to the SE system ...

@swasheck messaged.

swasheck

hah

also, in a testament to my ADD

Playing with NodeXL - Using Graph Discoveries in Excel. Hooked mine to Hadoop on Azure to do nearest-neighbor analysis. http://bit.ly/8C27q

Tweeted by buckwoody on December 10, 2012 at 10:33 PM

Max Vernon

@swasheck yeah, all the ports are open. SQLSERVER_MACHINEA was a placeholder for the actual account name used by SQL Server 2012.

swasheck

11:24 PM

@MaxVernon that much dawned on me :)

Max Vernon

currently server A can execute queries against server B. but not the other way around.

I don't know what the difference is.

I appreciate your help!

swasheck

and you created the link the same way?

Max Vernon

yep, I have code I wrote a while ago

swasheck

so what's the actual error you're getting when you try to run queries against server a?

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The Heap™ – Consultancy ©®