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Cade Roux
Cade Roux
12:08 AM
@SQLKiwi I've been conditioned over the years to avoid something which could easily turn into a correlated subquery which could kill performance.
 
Mark Storey-Smith
Mark Storey-Smith
12:42 AM
Can I get some obliterators please... if they agree of course:
0
A: why is io_stall_writes_ms so much higher for tempdb?

JVCBecause tempdb is used constantly for many internal operations it has the greatest number of objects created and dropped during production operations so the I/O impact is more than on any other database. TempDB should always be placed on the fastest disk drive available, and since it is recreated...

 
jcolebrand
jcolebrand
ahem
I got this.
rolls up sleeves
> I/O bottlenecks are common in tempDB and having multiple data files will increase performance.
No, having a proper disk configuration will reduce I/O bottlenecks
such as moving tempdb to a spindle that isn't where the main datastore is, and having tempdb's spindles not be 5400 RPM drives.
It's flat out FUD, and the author of that answer isn't on Database Administrators so I won't humor it with keeping it active. If he were, we could debate the merits.
@MarkStorey-Smith or am I mistaken somewhere?
 
Mark Storey-Smith
Mark Storey-Smith
oh my, @jcolebrands in nuking mode :)
 
jcolebrand
jcolebrand
always
especially when a basic lack of O/S fundamentals is involved
 
Mark Storey-Smith
Mark Storey-Smith
I'd leave it public and blast it with downvotes instead. You guys convinced me that was the best way to deal with FUD way back (18 months ago) when I got all shirty about an answer that was full of BS :)
 
jcolebrand
jcolebrand
I firmly believe if you're going to program for computers you need to know how they work
@MarkStorey-Smith oh, only when the OP is on our site. I guess I failed to mention that. On migrations where the OP will never learn of their faux-pas, eff 'em
In this case, the OP of the post, not of the Q
Had it been an accepted answer I might have given it a quarter second pause...
 
Mark Storey-Smith
Mark Storey-Smith
12:51 AM
Roger that chief :)
 
jcolebrand
jcolebrand
Also, I get to bypass "downvote and shame" when they're truly bad. ;-)
But seriously
Of course tempdb is going to thrash
The only time it won't is if you happen to have exactly one op running, and no tasks/procedures/etc running in any capacity, and it has its own spindleset, and it's properly configured, and the system is running the most idle any system has ever run, and the kernel has been optimized to only run SQL Server. Maybe then the tempdb won't thrash as you run it.
But when everything is on the same vertical set of platters, on one spindle?
I mean, you might as well invite kindergartners to run with sharp knives on gravel ...
 
Mark Storey-Smith
Mark Storey-Smith
We don't know what the setup is unfortunately and as its a SpamOverflow migration, we'll probably never know
 
jcolebrand
jcolebrand
Indeed.
Oh, but didn't the OP say they were running one spindle for everything? I thought they did ...
> We have the user and system data files on the same disk drive.
"what did you think was going to happen?"
ok, my dog hasn't been out in 11 hours. I gotta jet.
 
Mark Storey-Smith
Mark Storey-Smith
@jcolebrand Good spot
Or more to the point, I'm losing my fecking eyesite
 
swasheck
swasheck
1:09 AM
i dont know what's worse, the question or the answer
let me rephrase.
question: bad situation
answer: doesn't really address a core problem with the bad situation
 
Mike Walsh
Mike Walsh
1:35 AM
Regarding the TempDB question... Are we mad at the question or the answer? I am in the mood to answer it in two parts.. One why tempdb could show more stalls.. And two - how IO stalls work and how we address them regardless of which database they are in.. But I don't want to tip over the apple cart if this is one I shouldn't touch (@jcolebrand, @swasheck @MarkStorey-Smith, et al)
 
swasheck
swasheck
@MikeWalsh by all means, address it. my opinion is that the question is a crap situation with a significant, superficial "duh" factor but a deeper dive would be incredibly educational.
@MikeWalsh the answer is full of fail
 
Mark Storey-Smith
Mark Storey-Smith
@MikeWalsh Not so much mad, just that the answers (which I thought very FUDy) needed downvoting to make way for a good answer. The original Q could certainly do with some more detail adding but it isn't BAD bad per-se
@MikeWalsh Personally, I thought it would be impossible to answer the original Q without more information.
 
Mike Walsh
Mike Walsh
My answer won't really be anything remarkable.. I mean it is kind of a softball, right? But there is someone in need of some help and if someone stumbles on it, hey maybe the answer helps them.. Answering questions like this is cathartic ;-)
@MarkStorey-Smith That's a great point, though. I mean there is a general answer about what to do when you see high IO stalls..
the specific question requires more to answer specifically
maybe I just leave it alone then :)
 
Mark Storey-Smith
Mark Storey-Smith
Single array with opposite end of the scale stats for different files smells like x writes to file1.mdf and x*20000 writes to file2.mdf
such that the average ms stat is skewed off the wall
 
Mike Walsh
Mike Walsh
yeah it could very well be that, @MarkStorey-Smith.
 
Mark Storey-Smith
Mark Storey-Smith
1:40 AM
@MikeWalsh Don't let me put you off! 99/100 your going to post something that gets +1'd from me :)
 
swasheck
swasheck
@MikeWalsh i agree with @MarkStorey-Smith
 
Mark Storey-Smith
Mark Storey-Smith
@MikeWalsh I've just looked at his original query again... has he just fubar'd the numbers with the UPPER(LEFT(mf.physical_name, 1)) AS Directory?
 
Mike Walsh
Mike Walsh
@MarkStorey-Smith Hah.. I was just heading towards "look here... look here... user DBs and System DBs on the same spindles leads to other questions - are you splitting logs? it is a best practice to split tempdb because of how it is used..." then for the why TempDB - there are things that can use tempdb more (RCSI... purposefully using it.. inefficient queries.. etc) but even still tempdb is a resource used by all DBs" and a quick reminder that more info for these kind of questions like this would help.
 
Mark Storey-Smith
Mark Storey-Smith
Scratch that, don't think so, just a very odd way of doing it
 
Mike Walsh
Mike Walsh
@MarkStorey-Smith Yeah his query looks alright.. just an odd way to name it
 
swasheck
swasheck
1:44 AM
@MarkStorey-Smith yeah apparently i'll just return 'C'
 
Mark Storey-Smith
Mark Storey-Smith
@MikeWalsh Post it, we might tempt him to cross the void and enlighten us.
 
swasheck
swasheck
in many ways, the answer might perpetuate the problem. you're adding to the number of files that the server is going to write to and (perhaps) increase IO contention even more
 
Mike Walsh
Mike Walsh
@swasheck oh indeed. the answer given that I've also downvoted does not address io stalls or disk latency issues and it can exacerbate them..
 
Mark Storey-Smith
Mark Storey-Smith
@swasheck A round robin algorithm goes to work for multiple tempdb files, which alleviates the typical problem of latch contention on the gam/sgam pages. But, I see your point that if you don't have that problem you are in effect scattering the random IO over a wider area as it were :)
 
swasheck
swasheck
my answer is "use MongoDB"
 
Mark Storey-Smith
Mark Storey-Smith
1:47 AM
@swasheck It is after all, web scale
 
swasheck
swasheck
wait ... i can't even say that with a straight face
 
Mark Storey-Smith
Mark Storey-Smith
@swasheck I've got a bright eyed smart arse at one of my clients that is obsessed with the idea of the fecking thing
 
swasheck
swasheck
@MarkStorey-Smith right. but if we apply the logic contained in the answer itself then, thhhppppttt
 
Mark Storey-Smith
Mark Storey-Smith
BrightEyed: "So what you do is like re-write queries to make 'em faster yeh?"
MSS: "Erm, well, erm, that's part of it yes"
BrightEyed: "So why not just put NoSql in instead"
MSS: "Great idea! You write your version in <whateverdb> and we'll run some comparison tests. See you in 6 years for the faceoff."
 
swasheck
swasheck
@MarkStorey-Smith i like taking a global table lock for my writes. sure, my writes are fast-ish ... but that doesn't mean i shouldnt have exclusive access to the entire table
 
Mark Storey-Smith
Mark Storey-Smith
1:55 AM
@swasheck Absolutely. Multiple files is not usually the first port of call if everything is on a single spindle. Opinion is divided on the dump it all on a single array but for a single disk, the answer is always more disks :)
Pivoting back to an earlier Q, unless its a FusionIO single disk
@swasheck I agree regarding that MSDTC Q, he's got shocking google-fu if he couldn't find the answer in a couple of clicks
 
jcolebrand
jcolebrand
RE: The tempDB Q, keep in mind that folks who are present here on our site are available to be downvoted ;-)
@MikeWalsh @swasheck @MarkStorey-Smith ^^^^^^
 
Mike Walsh
Mike Walsh
2:21 AM
Go gentle.. time to get my late dinner out of oven..... Something about an empty stomach makes me want to blather more.. if it isn't helpful downvote and I'll get a new badge by deleting my shameful answer
0
A: why is io_stall_writes_ms so much higher for tempdb?

Mike WalshShort Answer: This may or may not be a problem by itself. You need to look at more information to suss out if it is a problem or not. Seems a bit high, yes, but are you suffering? If so, it is probably because either your IO system is not handling the load right (because it can't, because you hav...

 
Mark Storey-Smith
Mark Storey-Smith
@MikeWalsh Just popped back in to say... awesome :)
Good night folks
 
Mike Walsh
Mike Walsh
@MarkStorey-Smith hah. almost made me choke on my chicken cordon bleu. Goodnight. Stay warm.
 
Mark Storey-Smith
Mark Storey-Smith
@jcolebrand Answers like that are what they won't be seeing on G+ :)
 
jcolebrand
jcolebrand
hehehehe
 
Mike Walsh
Mike Walsh
@MarkStorey-Smith Haha. Nice point Mark.. Mainly because there just isn't great editing abilities in G+ for the headings ;-)... Though you may see answers that are good, there just isn't a downvote mechanism to drive out the nonsense. Think NNTP..
 
swasheck
swasheck
2:44 AM
@MikeWalsh nailed it
 
Mike Walsh
Mike Walsh
@swasheck thanks.. I mean it was kind of a softball though ;-) That wasn't anything brilliant or revelatory I shared. Not like @SQLKiwi does ;-)
 
swasheck
swasheck
@MikeWalsh maybe we'll get some good internals on this from him. having said that, you addressed the core issues and actually dealt with the question at hand
 
Mike Walsh
Mike Walsh
@swasheck lol. No core internals yet, need more info from the OP.. IO stalls in TempDB? It happens... A lot.. It's only a probem if it's a problem..Just had this conversation with a client yesterday.. They have a restricted budget and things are efficient and fine.. Some counters aren't great but we'll watch them and trend them and deal with them if it starts trending bad.
But I said "you know the whole 'if a tree falls in the forest' philosophical question, right? Well.. If perfmon says your server should be slow but the users don't agree, is it really slow?" Terrible advice in many respects, but they were in the real world and were looking at two purchases and only one could be made..
 
swasheck
swasheck
@MikeWalsh i think that's similar to some of the things that Aaron Bertrand addresses. Is performance an OS metric (less memory consumed in the buffer pool) , or is it the end-user perception? You have to define the win first.
 
Mike Walsh
Mike Walsh
@swasheck Exactly.. As a full time DBA with 5 or so years under my belt, I was very perfmon/counter/metrics centric... I spent a lot of time for one employer making my graphs prettier... But it wasn't necessary, and I left some of the "less sexy" DBA "musts" get kind of crappy while focusing on the sexy "tuning a server and a workload" task I heaped on myself.. Thankfully nothing bad happened with me missing that maintenance and important tasks..
I calmed down a lot in the last 5 years of life as a full timer, and now as a consultant, I go with where the client needs to go. I look at trends and baselines and tell them "hey.. you may not have a problem today, but this could be..." but I don't get lost on metrics alone...
I call it "splinting your database to death" - straightpathsql.com/archives/2012/02/…
 
swasheck
swasheck
2:58 AM
interesting.
as a full time DBA with 2 years under my belt (late to the game) ... i appreciate that there's a community like this
 
Mike Walsh
Mike Walsh
@swasheck There isn't any "late to the game" That's the cool thing about everything we do in life.. We all start at the beginning. The 9th degree black belt was once a white belt who didn't even know how to make a fist.. The star vascular surgeon once had to learn the direction blood travels in our circulatory system :-)
But having a community like this? Awesome.. I learn a ton from questions I can answer, from questions others answer and from questions that we all have a hard time answering. And this chat room has been getting more and more fun and informative, too.
 
jcolebrand
jcolebrand
@MikeWalsh precisely why I rail against it
 
swasheck
swasheck
thanks. sometimes i feel pretty stable in my position, and then (like today) when @SQLKiwi was trying to explain why NOT EXISTS as an anti-semi-join is a better pattern than LEFT JOIN ... WHERE ... IS NULL
 
Mike Walsh
Mike Walsh
@swasheck I didn't know that or even know that I needed to know that when I was a DBA with 2 years of experience. In fact, I am not sure I cared to know. You are ahead of the curve.
We all start somewhere and you'll get to a point where you look back at "2 years in self" and laugh at how little you know compared to your view from "10 years in self"
 
swasheck
swasheck
@MikeWalsh sure. i just wish i'd discovered this 10 years ago ... even 6 years ago :)
 
Mike Walsh
Mike Walsh
3:08 AM
I still remember serious confusion when learning about statistics at about 2 years in.. And it makes me laugh how little I understood, but how much I thought I grasped.. And as a consultant, at least 2x a month I fix something or learn something and find myself saying "Darn!! I wish I knew this when I worked full time for ____"
@swasheck I started picking up guitar last year.. At 33 that is frustrating. I want to know more than I know now.. I feel your pain. Keep doing what you are doing though. You've found a good place to get knowledge through watching answers and researching your own answers. I've found that giving (blogging, speaking, answering questions, etc) has taught me more than I could by taking classes and reading.
 
swasheck
swasheck
haha ... thanks.
 
Mike Walsh
Mike Walsh
@jcolebrand Yeah.. It is a noise collector. I think it will die its course for this eventually. I joined the #sqlhelp community that Tom LaRock set up, but I'm not expecting it to blossom in the same way a site like this can
 
jcolebrand
jcolebrand
you did see how fast we've grown compared to the SE1.0 startup that transitioned to ask.SSC right?
 
Mike Walsh
Mike Walsh
3:25 AM
@jcolebrand I never really got involved in ask.SSC
but I think I caught a note you put out here about the difference. And that is great.
I came on here last year and started to really get into it.. Even made it high enough in rep to get the shirt, but then I sort of faded.. I've been back a month so far (22 days consecutive ;-) ) and I think a habit has formed.. (A good one). Glad to be here at this stage.. Need to do a blog post about the value I've gotten and seen shared here still.
 
jcolebrand
jcolebrand
3:44 AM
@MikeWalsh that would be wonderful. Work on the language and we'll work on reviving the blog
 
Mike Walsh
Mike Walsh
@jcolebrand I meant on my own blog but I don't mind posting it on mine and sharing on ours as well :-)
by "ours" I mean dba.se us
 
swasheck
swasheck
@MikeWalsh @jcolebrand i see no problem with posting in both locations, you?
 
Mike Walsh
Mike Walsh
I just wanted to post on mine as a reminder to those who check out my blog of what a resource we have here. for their questions but also for a place to help folks.. I actually ended up with a short term client for some upgrade support because of a long answer I wrote about in place vs migration style upgrades.. Wanted to remind SQL folks that they can get by giving.. Not that that's why I do it but if it inspires some folks to come and add to answers that is great.
I don't have Brent Ozar or Pinal Dave readership, but I get a fair amount that it may help remind some folks about the place :)
 
swasheck
swasheck
@MikeWalsh any contributions we can get to blogoverflow would be helpful ...
 
Mike Walsh
Mike Walsh
@swasheck I don't mind writing something there. I just need to get better with my blogging discipline first :-) I've been so busy that blogging has fallen off the radar first
So I just write long answers here instead to get my blogging energy utilized ;-0
 
swasheck
swasheck
3:55 AM
didnt figure you'd mind, just sayin :)
 
Mike Walsh
Mike Walsh
@swasheck Being back here answering questions gives plenty of blogging ideas. So I am sure a lot of answers could develop into blog posts on blogoverflow
 
jcolebrand
jcolebrand
@MikeWalsh I was just thinking as a "see, this is why I participate" and a big of bragging on the SE side ... a bit of an endorsement ..
 
Mike Walsh
Mike Walsh
@jcolebrand Sure. I agree. I really don't care where I post it, honestly. I can do it in two places or either place. Happy either way. I want to help see this grow even more so wherever you think is best, just point me in a direction and give me a week ;-)
 
jcolebrand
jcolebrand
lol
go ahead and write it up, we'll worry about the where later
I think I finally have a loosely free weekend
 
Mike Walsh
Mike Walsh
4:15 AM
sounds good
 
 
2 hours later…
ypercube
ypercube
6:43 AM
Why does this answer has 3 downvotes? Is it so wrong?
-3
A: Do I have to retype information every time I make a mistake in SQLPlus

miracle173For all commandline application emacs can be used as an interface. You can open the shell mode and run the command line tool. Emacs will send the command you input to the command line tool and read and the display the output. Because you type your input to emacs you can manipulate your input usin...

 
Phil
Phil
@ypercube You can run a shell from a billion different progs. The answer doesn't really add any value
Plus, sane people don't use emacs!
 
ypercube
ypercube
ah, I knew it was an emacs-vi religion war
 
SQL Kiwi
SQL Kiwi
@ypercube It got a downvote from me for the vagueness in "There is a special sql-oracle mode that pecially supports sqlplus. I worked with it long time ago. Today I did not find it in the documentation. I searched the web and but I found only the following link. Maybe you can find more when searching the emacs documents."
 
ypercube
ypercube
@Phil @SQLKiwi: OK, both points make sense. And the last line "A lot of people don't like emacs ..." adds nothing either.
 
 
2 hours later…
dezso
dezso
9:20 AM
user running amok
 
bluefeet
bluefeet
10:09 AM
Maybe I am doing something wrong, but this accepted answer does not work, see this fiddle -- sqlfiddle.com/#!4/9c91c/1
0
Q: How to do count the most common entry in sql.

KarenIve got a race entry table with loads of different members in it. I want to find out the member that has been in the most races so far. How do i go about doing this please. i am using oracle through sql developer so TOP 1 does not work.

sql oracle count entry common
 
Jack Douglas
Jack Douglas
@ypercube +1 from me :)
 
dezso
dezso
@bluefeet already up that early?
 
bluefeet
bluefeet
10:24 AM
@dezso yeah I am going to go for a run
 
dezso
dezso
10:41 AM
@bluefeet healthy lifestyle? not very typical in this profession...
 
bluefeet
bluefeet
I try to do something everyday. It helps having a treadmill at home
 
 
4 hours later…
dezso
dezso
2:19 PM
@JackDouglas @jcolebrand @JNK duplicate alert!
2
Q: Postgresql incremental backup (Continuous Archiving using WAL)

user1897306I need to take incremental backup in postgres. What I want is to capture (and take backup of) the changes in the DB on a daily basis, so that I can restore my DB on any particular day I want. According to Continuous Archiving (using WAL), I am doing below steps: I configured postgresql.conf, ...

postgresql
 
Zane
Zane
2:47 PM
0
A: Incredibly slow query performance

ZaneOkay so this is what I actually did to make this query that used to run in about an hour and a half run in under a minute. First I did a little more digging to see exactly what this was doing. There are a few major sub selects in the outer most portion of the query. They look like this. Isnull((...

Looking for thoughts on my answer to my own question.
Making sure it meets the high standards of the people who lurk this room so that if someone else bumps into it it may be helpful.
 
Zane
Zane
3:02 PM
Any Tips or pointers would be great
 
DTest
DTest
3:17 PM
@Zane not sure others would agree with me, but I would put a synopsis at the top of the answer, like: "The majority of the problem ended up being in the sub-selects. Here is what I found out:".
other than that, I like how you write out your process
 
ypercube
ypercube
3:29 PM
Anyone interested in this SQL-Server question?
1
Q: Is it possible to optimize a SELECT COUNT(*) query using a filtered index as a hint to achieve constant speed?

Jeff MoserI'd like to count all the Orders that are not urgent and whose order status = 1 (shipped). This should be a very simple query to optimize. I'd like to put a simple filtered index on the Orders table to cover this query to make it a constant time/O(1) operation. However, when I look at the query ...

tsql query-optimization indexes sql-server-2012 filtered-index
I see Martin Smith has put a few comments there but not an answer.
 
Zane
Zane
@DTest I can certainly do that.
 
jcolebrand
jcolebrand
I want to encourage all our team to read this post and consider if we're doing all we can too, here.
10
Q: Rarity's Resignation

RarityI'll soon be stepping down as a ♦ moderator here on workplace at my request; I'm currently sticking around while the Stack Exchange team picks a suitable replacement (there will still be 3 mods for the beta period). To stem any confusion I thought I'd go ahead and announce it myself. Why am I le...

discussion
 
swasheck
swasheck
3:44 PM
@jcolebrand "Why am I leaving? That's easy; this is extra work and time and I'm not all too interested in the topic honestly."
 
JNK
JNK
Can i tell you guys a secret?
I hate databases!
 
swasheck
swasheck
@JNK i love databases. i love data. i hate end users.
@Zane other than "and for good measure" i think it's great. you should probably justify what your reasoning.
 
DTest
DTest
@JNK can we get a mod-star?
 
swasheck
swasheck
@jcolebrand can you explain what you mean by "consider if ..."?
 
DTest
DTest
just out of curiosity...has anyone heard of the company 'Pythian' ?
 
jcolebrand
jcolebrand
3:49 PM
@swasheck are we doing all we can?
 
swasheck
swasheck
@DTest i have ...
why
@jcolebrand what else could we do?
 
jcolebrand
jcolebrand
idk, that's why it's for you to consider
if you can come up with nothing, great
 
swasheck
swasheck
"I look around now and I see community closures within hours. I see users defending, editing and reopening closed posts. I see massive piles of downvotes for zero-substance answers, little tolerance for low quality material, meanwhile helpful, detailed answers are rewarded. I see regulars explaining the policies and helping new users along, and helping flesh out the sites' policy on Meta."
 
Zane
Zane
@swasheck basically used to to get that little extra boost of speed. I can edit that
Thanks for the comments
 
DTest
DTest
@swasheck they're hiring mysql dba's...curious what experiences people had with the company.
 
swasheck
swasheck
3:51 PM
@Zane that's fair. it really is. just dont want to perpetuate the "slap an index on it to speed it up" myth. i mean, that's why we have NOLOCK, right?
@DTest they're a remote dba service, right? i mean, if you into that sort of thing. you're either going to be messing with territorial DBAs going on vacation, or a company that has no DBA and is in the middle of a cluster____. either way: poopstorm DBA duty.
 
DTest
DTest
@swasheck true, though I've been doing 'remote dba' for my company for 4 years, so there are companies out there that maintain a remote dba. I figure there's a good chance newer companies would go that route.
I was more curious if anyone had experience dealing with them..like, that's not the company @rfusca's predecessor works for now, is it?:)
 
swasheck
swasheck
@DTest i actually looked into them ... but i dont want to move
 
DTest
DTest
especially to canada
I've been in the south too long...it's 48 outside and I'm freezing.
 
Zane
Zane
@swasheck Yeah I'll edit that to mention I tested for both speed read and speed of insert for that table.
Fixed. Thanks @swasheck for the help.
 
rfusca
rfusca
4:07 PM
@DTest I've heard of pythian - nothing more than mentions though
 
swasheck
swasheck
@DTest if they hired that guy then you're in, right?
 
jcolebrand
jcolebrand
@DTest That's ok, in Dallas it feels colder ;-)
 
swasheck
swasheck
@Zane no worries
 
DTest
DTest
@jcolebrand true enough
@swasheck setting the bar high
 
swasheck
swasheck
@jcolebrand @DTest in denver it's a dry cold
 
rfusca
rfusca
4:10 PM
@DTest its not ;)
 
DTest
DTest
@rfusca awesome
 
Zane
Zane
30F and windy here.
 
SQL Kiwi
SQL Kiwi
4:43 PM
@ypercube If you're asking whether it should be migrated, I say yes.
 
ypercube
ypercube
@SQLKiwi: Yes, basically yes. If there is interest in answering it (so we can migrate)
I added a comment for the OP. (oh, just noticed you did too :)
 
rfusca
rfusca
@DTest he works at BIAS btw biascorp.com
 
DTest
DTest
i see
 
SQL Kiwi
SQL Kiwi
5:00 PM
@ypercube Is that possible? I see you have said it is too old to flag for migration.
 
JNK
JNK
What say you heapers? Better fit on DBA or on SO?
0
Q: Reordering data in a table

JamesI have a table that stores sensor data (in SQLite) and looks like this; TABLE Timestream: idTimestream PK autoincrementing integer, time int not null, value float not null, idSensor integer not null FK Some but not all sensors have matching times, but I'll only be considering those that do....

sql sqlite
 
SQL Kiwi
SQL Kiwi
@JNK Seems like a basic pivot query from a quick look. Do we have many SQLLite people here? If not, might be best to let it go?
 
Jack Douglas
Jack Douglas
@SQLKiwi That's a reason for letting it stay if anything: we need more sqllite questions to attract sqllite contributors
 
SQL Kiwi
SQL Kiwi
We need more chickens to lay more eggs so we can have more chickens.
Fair point though.
 
swasheck
swasheck
5:17 PM
I'M A SAILOR PEG AND I LOST MY LEG
oh, hello @JackDouglas
 
ypercube
ypercube
Have you noticed the ad on the site?
 
Jack Douglas
Jack Douglas
@swasheck er, hello :)
 
swasheck
swasheck
@ypercube 2011
 
Zane
Zane
Who was it that worked for DUMAC?
 
JNK
JNK
@Zane Me
 
Zane
Zane
5:22 PM
That's what I thought.
 
ypercube
ypercube
@swasheck: Oh, I thought they were running a 2nd campaign
 
DTest
DTest
100k, nice prize
 
swasheck
swasheck
@ypercube i thought so too, at first. i saw the ad getting some run
 
JNK
JNK
@Zane Did you need something or just trying to remember?
 
swasheck
swasheck
but in the end it looks like somehow it's just an anomaly
 
Zane
Zane
5:24 PM
no we are in a battle with them over a specific customer and I just couldn't remember who exactly worked for them in the past.
@JNK did you work on SBOnet?
 
JNK
JNK
Some
I helped them a little with back end programming
 
swasheck
swasheck
@JNK i see they still have your picture on their site
 
JNK
JNK
lol
I know that guy
he is actually their SQL developer
 
Zane
Zane
They have an impossibly crummy website.
 
JNK
JNK
the guy who is in charge of the website is a joke
he was a manager then he did a crap job and got moved to HR
then he did a crap job and does that and the website
They are a family company so they don't fire people when they should
 
Cade Roux
Cade Roux
5:26 PM
@JNK This is why you don't want ORDER BY in VIEWs: sqlfiddle.com/#!5/b2372/5
 
JNK
JNK
The guy in the picture is kind of awesome though
 
Zane
Zane
Lol the headphone guy is my direct competition.
 
JNK
JNK
the SBONet product is solid though
 
swasheck
swasheck
nice work @JakeFeasel
 
Mark Storey-Smith
Mark Storey-Smith
@jnk @jcolebrand This chap might need a little guidance on how the voting/accept "thing" works dba.stackexchange.com/users/6706/habo
 
swasheck
swasheck
5:28 PM
 
Jack Douglas
Jack Douglas
@swasheck it doesn't work with IE
 
swasheck
swasheck
@JackDouglas Chrome (Dev Channel)
 
Jack Douglas
Jack Douglas
www.sqlfiddle.com/about.html
or WebKit I guess :)
he only mentions Safari
 
swasheck
swasheck
@MarkStorey-Smith have a pity upvote from me ... on the house
@JackDouglas i thought that safari was an activity ... or an online bookstore
 
Cade Roux
Cade Roux
@swasheck OK doesn't work well for me on that dialog.
 
Mark Storey-Smith
Mark Storey-Smith
5:30 PM
@swasheck That's precisely why I didn't want to prompt him myself. I'm not chasing votes, honest :)
 
swasheck
swasheck
@CadeRoux yeah, actually i'm stuck with "loading"
@MarkStorey-Smith but you're still waiting for the DTC guy to accept your answer too
 
ypercube
ypercube
@Cade: What exactly is the problem there (I guess that the ORDER BYs are ignored when the 2 views are joined). Or needlessly calculated and then ignored.
 
swasheck
swasheck
@MarkStorey-Smith having said that, he probably can't unaccept, can he?
 
JNK
JNK
You can always unaccept I think
 
Mark Storey-Smith
Mark Storey-Smith
@swasheck Does that require a certain rep level?
 
JNK
JNK
5:33 PM
I don't think there's any restrictions on it
 
swasheck
swasheck
time
 
rfusca
rfusca
Sitting at lunch with my boss, mentioned having a headache...so now he's insisting that I go home and sleep it off
this place is just crazy
 
Cade Roux
Cade Roux
@ypercube I imagine SQLite is pretty primitive, so it probably always uses the order by of the first table being joined on inner joins or the leftmost table in an outer join. But the point is that views are interchangeable with tables as sets in RDBMS and so are by definition, unordered. To ever obey order by in a view was a mistake.
 
swasheck
swasheck
@rfusca you have any mssql in your environment?
 
rfusca
rfusca
@swasheck a little
but I don't mess with it
 
swasheck
swasheck
5:35 PM
@rfusca need a DBA?
;)
 
rfusca
rfusca
@swasheck lol
 
ypercube
ypercube
@Cade No argue on that.
 
JNK
JNK
for real
or a developer
 
Zane
Zane
hmm our website is also incredibly out of date.
 
swasheck
swasheck
@rfusca my boss would tell me that the reason my head hurt was because i wasnt working hard enough and that we should probably get back to the office so that i can work harder
 
rfusca
rfusca
5:37 PM
@swasheck haha
 
JNK
JNK
My boss would never know I have a headache
 
swasheck
swasheck
"i like driving backwards in the fog"
 
JNK
JNK
He would need to talk to me more than once every two weeks for that kind of thing
 
swasheck
swasheck
@JNK work from home?
 
rfusca
rfusca
ya, this is more like "I stubbed my toe" "Take a week off to heal up."
 
Mike Walsh
Mike Walsh
5:37 PM
Being my own boss means I know I'm just faking... So I tell myself to just shut up and get to work..
 
JNK
JNK
no we are in the same office
I sit like 100 ft from him
 
swasheck
swasheck
boss: "what's that SMELL???"
JNK: "i'm not feeling well. i told you like 17 times."
 
JNK
JNK
lol
That happened!
no not really
 
swasheck
swasheck
but kinda
@rfusca in all seriousness ... in my summer of hell my boss told me that i should probably just wear headphones to minimize distractions when i told him that i was hallucinating (from lack of sleep)
 
rfusca
rfusca
@swasheck lol thats awesome
 
swasheck
swasheck
5:40 PM
@rfusca he's managed IT organizations 3 times the size of this place and has never had a DBA complain of fatigue
my question, "how many DBAs were on the team?"
10
 
rfusca
rfusca
niiiiiice
 
swasheck
swasheck
i am a team of 1
supporting 24x7 medprod manf
so i just smiled and turned around.
 
rfusca
rfusca
but my boss tells me to take off early...who am I to argue
 
JNK
JNK
So you are 3.3 DBAs
 
Jack Douglas
Jack Douglas
@swasheck I can't believe you kids are still using Chrome ;)
 
swasheck
swasheck
5:41 PM
it was a real turning point in our relationship
 
JNK
JNK
based on his old experience
 
rfusca
rfusca
ciao
 
Zane
Zane
I really want to work on a team of dba's
 
Mark Storey-Smith
Mark Storey-Smith
@JackDouglas What are the groovy kids using these days?
 
swasheck
swasheck
@JackDouglas hipster. is chrome "too popular" for you?
@rfusca hopefully your wittle headache feews aww better
;)
 
Jack Douglas
Jack Douglas
5:43 PM
@MarkStorey-Smith I fell out with Chrome eventually and went back to FF—that doesn't answer your question though ;)
 
ypercube
ypercube
 
swasheck
swasheck
@MarkStorey-Smith, @JackDouglas strikes me as a lynx user
 
Mark Storey-Smith
Mark Storey-Smith
@JackDouglas I switched from FF to chrome a year or so ago when FF was freezing/pausing constantly
 
Jack Douglas
Jack Douglas
@MarkStorey-Smith it is slower and I miss the tab process isolation, otherwise I'm much happier back here
@swasheck yes I use lynx too on servers of course ;)
 
swasheck
swasheck
@JackDouglas of course
@MikeWalsh nice work
19
Q: Are SQL Server in-place upgrades as ill advised as they used to be?

Chris WoodI have been working with SQL server on and off since SQL Server 6.5, the old advice that still rings in my head was never to do an in-place upgrade. I'm currently upgrading my 2008 R2 DEV and TEST systems to SQL Server 2012 and need to use the same hardware. The thought of not having to restore...

sql-server sql-server-2012 migration upgrade reporting-services
 
Jack Douglas
Jack Douglas
6:04 PM
@swasheck do you use ipython?
 
swasheck
swasheck
@JackDouglas no
 
JNK
JNK
is that apple's new snake product?
 
swasheck
swasheck
i've heard of it, but i just generally stick with SciTE and python interpreter
 
Jack Douglas
Jack Douglas
I'm rubbish at bash scripting and looking for an alternative. Not sure there really is one.
 
swasheck
swasheck
learn bash? i've really come to love zsh but it's quite bash-y
 
Jack Douglas
Jack Douglas
6:07 PM
@swasheck I don't do quite enough of it to properly get used to the quirks—thats the problem with trying to be a jack-of-all-trades :(
 
Phil
Phil
I like bash
 
Jack Douglas
Jack Douglas
@Phil do you like zsh?
 
swasheck
swasheck
bash is good stuff. i only said that it's quite bash-y because of @JackDouglas's seeming aversion to it :)
 
Jack Douglas
Jack Douglas
@swasheck I spend a long time looking stuff up every time I try and do something new :)
but you are right, I need to man up and get used to it
 
swasheck
swasheck
@JackDouglas me too.
 
Phil
Phil
6:16 PM
@JackDouglas I tend not to use it - stops me from getting into bad habits. I've been on customer sites where only ksh or csh has been available, so I try and use them randomly so I don't forget the syntax differences.
Made me cry the first time I saw a several thousand line long ksh script
 
Jack Douglas
Jack Douglas
6:29 PM
@Phil My longest bash script is about 20 lines and that makes me cry. If I had to look at one that long I'd be blubbing like a baby!
 
Phil
Phil
Helps that I'm a perl fiend!
 
Jack Douglas
Jack Douglas
I had you down as that sort :)
 
Phil
Phil
I love perl. I once wrote a script - looked at it the next day and it was impossible to follow. Fantastic language :)
3
 
swasheck
swasheck
today i read #sqlhelp on Twitter and realize that i'm not a 1/2 bad DBA ... but could be better
@Phil so it's like the VBScript of the *nix world right?
@Phil i kid. i hear perl is better than vbscript, but the ubiquity and nonsense of the latter in windows environments made me relate in some way
 
Phil
Phil
More like the rose wine of the alcohol world. It tastes nice, but as a man you'd never admit to drinking it
3
 
Zane
Zane
6:40 PM
@swasheck every day I regret not going for that job more and more...
 
swasheck
swasheck
@Zane what's up now? don't sweat it, though. 9 days and all of your problems will end.
oasis just popped up on the radio. what happened to those guys?
 
Zane
Zane
I thought I won on the switch from MSSql enterprise to mysql community but that fell through.
We are supposed to make the switch in one weeks time....
I don't mean we are making the switch a week from now. I mean we have 1 week to do it once the project has started.
We are getting rid of replication and replacing it with a unfinished untested service that one of our developers doesn't think will work.
 
swasheck
swasheck
when does the week start?
 
ypercube
ypercube
Why? MySQL has replication, AFAIK.
 
Zane
Zane
We just don't want to use any sort of replication.
 
ypercube
ypercube
6:47 PM
and what will this service do?
 
Zane
Zane
We work obscene hours and get questioned for our dedication. We over promise everything and then when it falls short it ends up being my issue.
 
SQL Kiwi
SQL Kiwi
Nice to see a dba.se question leading to a SQLskills blog post:
 
swasheck
swasheck
@Zane i'm confused. the co. doesn't want to use any sort of replication, but rather a service that takes data from one place and puts it in another place so that it is the same as the first database?
@SQLKiwi very cool
can G+ say that???
 
Zane
Zane
Well basically it runs queries on our client sites sends the records up the our home base where they are merged and either inserted updated or deleted.
No @swasheck. We have hundreds of client sites across the country and we store their databases in a central database.
Also the database we store them in is different is uses an entirely different schema.
 
Jack Douglas
Jack Douglas
@SQLKiwi That's great news—the best possible kind of advertisement. Thanks for linking to it in here!
 
swasheck
swasheck
6:52 PM
@Zane so queries are executed on your local environment. it's in no way distributed, right?
 
SQL Kiwi
SQL Kiwi
@JackDouglas No worries, I was delighted to see it (and immediately retweet)
[Blog] How to return property values in full-text search. http://bit.ly/XTwIUy #sql2012 #sqlskills /cc @DataChomp @SQL_Kiwi
Tweeted by bobbeauch on December 12, 2012 at 6:43 PM
 
swasheck
swasheck
@SQLKiwi do you use a twitter client, or just the main site?
 
SQL Kiwi
SQL Kiwi
@swasheck TweetDeck
 
swasheck
swasheck
oh hey ... they have a Chrome extension
 
Zane
Zane
Lunch time see you later.
 
SQL Kiwi
SQL Kiwi
6:54 PM
I tried it once. It sucked. Might have improved.
 
swasheck
swasheck
fair enough
blocked by websense anyway
 
RichardTheKiwi
RichardTheKiwi
0
A: Stack Overflow Annual User Survey

RichardTheKiwiI got stuck on the first question. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Asian_countries_by_GDP http://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/asia.htm No "New Zealand" to be seen. Australia is both a country and continent, but New Zealand is not part of it. I guess you didn't want responses from New...

 
swasheck
swasheck
@RichardTheKiwi we dont serve your kind here
 
RichardTheKiwi
RichardTheKiwi
@swasheck I flagged your comment, just so you know :)
 
OrigamiRobot
OrigamiRobot
WHO'S THIS RIGAMAROLE?!?!?!
 
swasheck
swasheck
6:59 PM
@RichardTheKiwi this room will be a bakery ... thought you'd like to know
 
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