The Frying Pan

Jolenealaska

12:12 AM

Well, here we go again:

Cerberus

Ohh so very professional!

What's the zero about?

Jolenealaska

Time

0 hours

Cerberus

Ahh.

Yum, avocado.

Jolenealaska

Yummy now, it won't look so good at 24 hours

This is the first time in recent memory that I am planning on staying up for 24 hours.

This one is testing a reported thing about the gas released by chopped onions.

Cerberus

Interesting.

Is it a gas?

Why are you staying up for so long?

Jolenealaska

12:23 AM

yes. Here's the thing:

3

A: Browning Avocados - What Helps?

Propanethiol S-oxide gas will stop the browning affect on the surface of avocados. This sulfur oxide is found in the gas formed from cutting bitter/sharp onions. When storing guacamole in a bowl, place a half an onion chopped inside a smaller bowl, then place the smaller bowl in the center on to...

Because I want photos every hour for 24 hours.

I won't use but a few of them, but I want to have plenty to choose from.

If I'm going to expand on an answer with 104 upvotes, I want to do it well.

Cerberus

12:43 AM

Wow.

Are you sure it's worth it?

Health-wise, I mean.

Jolenealaska

Oh yeah. 24 hours is not unusual for me. If I start to feel bad, I'll abort. It may not take that long either. I'm 50 minutes in and the lime sample (as expected, it's first) is starting to brown.

When the last sample starts to brown, the experiment is over.

I may get lucky and get there as soon as 12 hours.

I can bring the tupperware to bed with me if it comes to that :)

Jolenealaska

1:07 AM

If the onion thing works, I only need one picture, the container with onions containing avocado that is much less brown than the other.

Cerberus

@Jolenealaska Aww so cute.

@Jolenealaska That will be very interesting.

Jolenealaska

The cool thing about the vitamin C is that it seems to counteract the effect of the lime juice without adding flavor. So if you want lime juice in your guacamole, just add a crushed vitamin C tablet too, and it won't brown while it's out on the table with chips.

Hi @Jefromi

Cerberus

I thought vitamin C pills contained lots of ascorbic acid?

The main acid in lemons?

Jefromi

Hallo there is one of your questions in my close vote review queue!

Cerberus

Ouch.

Jolenealaska

1:20 AM

That's exactly what it is.

Jefromi

It says you are a newbie!

Jolenealaska

me or the hellhound?

Jefromi

You!

Jolenealaska

HA!

what question?

Jefromi

1

Q: Good uses for leftover Bechamel?

I guess it's technically a Mornay, it has Parmesan and Fontina. I've got about 1 1/2 cups in my fridge. Refrigerated it's solid enough to hold a knife vertically, when it was warm it was just barely pourable and self spreading. It's a darn good sauce, I'd hate to waste it, but after all my advent...

Jolenealaska

1:22 AM

Ah, I was a newbie then.

It almost was closed back then

I really don't care if it closes or not. I'm expecting the "Socrates" badge any day now, I have more than enough questions. I must have asked several 2 or more in a single day. That's the only reason I would care at all.

And that's a pretty minor care.

lemon has Vit C, it also has citric acid.

Apparently, the citric acid wipes out the benefit of the ascorbic acid.

Jefromi

Yup, just thought it was odd to see.

Jolenealaska

it's weird, but my samples are behaving just as predicted.

the lime sample is getting brown

the untreated sample is just starting to brown

both the vit C+lime and vit C only sample are still perfectly green.

I don't want to open the container yet, but the onion thing looks promising too.

As much as I can tell through the semi transparent container, the avocado in the package with the onion is still perfectly green, the other is starting (of course) to brown.

Cerberus

@Jolenealaska So you are saying there isn't enough vitamin C in lemon juice to stop the browning?

Jolenealaska

Yep, that is what I am saying.

Cerberus

And the ascorbic acid accelerates browning?

Jolenealaska

1:34 AM

no ascorbic acid retards browning

Cerberus

Oh...

Jolenealaska

citric acid accelerates it.

Cerberus

Oh, huh.

I thought those were the same thing.

Jolenealaska

vinegar accelerates it A LOT.

Cerberus

Ascorbic acid = vitamin C, perhaps?

Jolenealaska

1:35 AM

note.

Cerberus

Note?

This is all very confusing for me...

Jolenealaska

I meant nope.

Cerberus

Ah.

I see your earlier lines now.

Jolenealaska

Fruit Fresh contains both citric acid and Absorbic acid.

Cerberus

So is the effective substance in vitamin-C pills only the ascorbic acid, or also the vitamin C itself?

Jolenealaska

1:37 AM

it very, very slightly accelerated browning in my first experiment.

vit C IS Ascorbic acid.

Cerberus

You said nope!

All right, then.

Jolenealaska

no...I said nope to citric acid and vit c being the same thing.

Cerberus

Oh...that was a few lines earlier.

You know how the grey arrows work, right?

Jolenealaska

my slow typing may have confused the issue

yeah, but I don't usually "reply"

Cerberus

I shall disregard the relative order of our lines then!

Jolenealaska

1:40 AM

my vit C tablets are pretty close to pure. a 500 mg tablet weighs .55 gram

Cerberus

Right.

Jolenealaska

I'll try to reply if order could confuse.

Cerberus

In most cases, there is no confusion.

3

Jolenealaska

so, lemon and lime juice have a high enough proportion of citric acid to counteract the benefit of the vit c.

additional vit C tips the balance.

@Jefromi your recent question that got the "on-topic?" comment made the close queue too.

Jefromi

I hope it doesn't get closed!

Jolenealaska

1:45 AM

I voted to leave it open :)

see?

In 1 hour I'll open the containers to snap a 3 hour pic.

Cerberus

@Jolenealaska OK that is clear.

@Jolenealaska The top one looks a bit darker than the bottom one?

@Jolenealaska What will that do to the onion gases in the container?

Jolenealaska

Nope, it may in the picture, but neither sample has darkened at all.

Cerberus

If, after that, the avocado begins to brown, then people might say: "perhaps it would have been more effective had she left all the onion gases inside the container, instead of letting the strongest (= first released) gases out".

Jolenealaska

The gasses will disperse, so I am only going to open it every 3 hours.

Cerberus

In any case, I like your experiments.

Jolenealaska

1:53 AM

at 3 hours the control will be brown, so even if that is the only good picture, if the onion avocados are significantly greener, then the photo will show that the onions are effective.

I'm taking several shots at each hour mark, from different angles, so hopefully I can choose pictures that accurately represent what's happening.

Cerberus

@Jolenealaska That is true.

But, if the onion avocado is brown after 24 hours while the ascorbic avocado is not, people will complain...

But I understand your dilemma.

Jefromi

Maybe I will eat an avocado to help out.

Cerberus

Next test: one onion container opened every 3 hours, one not opened at all.

Jolenealaska

when I open, I'll throw in some fresh onion! :)

Cerberus

@Jefromi THEY'RE MINE

@Jolenealaska Ahh that will help.

On the other hand, if the container that got fresh onions every 3 hours remains green after 24 hours, people will wonder whether the effect is still that strong if they leave the same onion in there for 24 hours.

Jolenealaska

1:59 AM

Through the container I can tell that it really works.

Cerberus

Yay!!

Jolenealaska

this is neat

Cerberus

Hey, is the browning of avocados at all similar to that of apples? I think not, since lemon juice protects apples well?

How about bananae?

Jolenealaska

Nope. In the first experiment I did apples and bananas too.

They behaved as expected.

Lemon, lime and fruit fresh all retarded browning.

Cerberus

Right.

So bananas too, that is good to know.

Jolenealaska

2:02 AM

the difference was slight, but it was there.

Cerberus

The difference between what and what?

Lemon juice on apples makes a huge difference in my experience.

Jolenealaska

fruit treated with acid and not treated.

Cerberus

Why slight?

Jolenealaska

apples more than bananas

Cerberus

My apples were completely devoid of browning the next day, if I recall correctly.

In a plastic bag with plenty of lemon juice.

Jolenealaska

2:04 AM

yep, the longer the time, the bigger the difference

Cerberus

Right.

Jolenealaska

and apples show it much more than bananas

Cerberus

I see.

Jolenealaska

You should have been here as the browning started during my first avocado experiment. The results were sooo unexpected that I just stood there, with my jaw hitting the floor and my eyes buggy. I probably stood there, motionless, for an hour.

Everything I thought I knew about oxidation, blown away by one simple experiment.

Cerberus

Haha, cool!

Nature is fickle.

Nothing does she love more than to confound us.

Jolenealaska

2:12 AM

yep!

But I know lots about the browning of avocados now!

Cerberus

Indeed, you are this world's authority on avocados.

All the world will arrive at your Answer on a search.

Jolenealaska

My legacy.

Cerberus

You shall be the Archimedea of avocadology, with your own heureka moment.

Jolenealaska

HA!

Cerberus

Let me see, what would be the feminine form of the ending -es.

Jolenealaska

2:24 AM

as?

Cerberus

I think -(e)(i)a.

Jolenealaska

how many languages do you speak?

Jolenealaska

2:55 AM

@Cerberus Check it out!

I'll crop out the scoop at the top of the frame :)

still no browning of the Vit C samples.

weird, the right hand container looks Photoshopped!

there, that's better.

I added onion, I'll open the containers and snap another pic in 3 hours.

Cerberus

Wow!!

Very impressive.

It seems to be working as well as the ascorbic acid?

By the way, it may be interesting to taste the onion avocado at the end, whether it smacks of onion.

Jolenealaska

Yep, it demonstrates it pretty well. Yep, so far no browning of any of them.

Yes, the teste will be interesting.

Cerberus

By the second way, is it true that the untreated batch is browner than the one with lime juice?

But you said that vinegar is worse than untreated, didn't you?

Jolenealaska

It definitely smelled strongly of onion when I opened it.

Cerberus

So with lime juice it must be the ascorbic acid slightly offsetting the citric acid, right?

Jolenealaska

3:05 AM

yes, the untreated is slightly more brown than the lime, although the untreated browned slower.

Yes, the vinegar sped browning and made it considerably worse.

the slight variances between this experiment and the last is probably due to the variety of avocado.

This time I am using hass. Last time it was a slightly different variety, Lamb Hass.

californiaavocado.com/avocado-varieties

Yep, the balance of the acid leaning towards ascorbic seems to be the key.

Cerberus

Right, that all makes sense.

Jolenealaska

The untreated lamb hass resisted browning a lot longer, but it didn't taste as good.

less creamy

Cerberus

3:28 AM

Less creamy than the normal Hass?

Jolenealaska

Yep. I prefer normal Hass.

Jolenealaska

4:02 AM

At 4 hours, still no browning of the Vit C or onion samples.

OH NOOO!

My ATK membership has expired!

I can't afford to renew it right now.

I consult them all the time, especially when I write answers here.

Next month is going to be a bit tight too.

Hmmm, maybe I can talk them into 1 year of access in return for a bunch of avocado information and accompanying photos.

Jolenealaska

5:07 AM

Hmmm

amazon.com/Premium-Kimchi-Sauerkraut-Fermentation-Container/dp/…

I think I want that.

Of the 16 reviews, 15 are 5 star, 1 is 4 star.

Bothe sauerkraut and kimchi are on my list of things to do. I also want to ferment peppers to make a killer hot sauce.

I probably want the 1.9 gallon size.

Jolenealaska

6:05 AM

NEATO!!

This is turning out way better than the Serious Eats article.

ATK eat your heart out.

This time I did not add fresh onion when I opened the container, after 6 hours the results are unmistakeably awesome, what happenst during the next three hours gives info too. Does opening the container release too much of the gas for its protection to continue?

I can't really photograph through the container, but I can see it. I'll watch carefully through the next hour.

@Jefromi I see you're here on main. Check this out!! :)

Jefromi

6:40 AM

Wow, that's ridiculous!

I wonder if that works on other things too.

Jolenealaska

It is!

One thing I learned from experiment #1 is that avocados are not normal.

Jefromi

Maybe onions will make other things brown more!!

Jolenealaska

They follow rules unlike other fruits.

I might try it with an apple sometime soon.

Jefromi

I also wonder what'll be good enough to work if there's lime juice and salt in it already, since both of those apparently make it worse.

Jolenealaska

Thing is, this is likely to give an onion flavor to the avocado. That's fine for guacamole, but probably not desirable for apples or bananas.

Jefromi

6:44 AM

I guess the water thing is easy enough anyway so I shouldn't worry about it.

Jolenealaska

Yes, I've got to do it all again, controlling for salt.

Jefromi

Do we need to take up a collection for avocado money?

Jolenealaska

I bought a Sam's club bag, so I've got enough. Sesame oil on the other hand...

but you know what?? As far as practical knowledge, I think it's enough to know that you shouldn't add salt until just before you serve.

Jefromi

Yeah, I just find it hard to make it by taste without putting the salt in.

Jolenealaska

I'll still do it, the mashed scoops, but it's not nearly as earth shattering as lime juice makes it worse, Vit C stops browning from happening with or without lime juice, and a bed of onions stops it too.

You salt guac?

Jefromi

6:53 AM

Yup! You don't?

Are your chips super salty?

Jolenealaska

Weird that I never have. Well, in that case the salt inclusion is a good idea.

Jefromi

I don't think I use a whole ton, but it does taste better to me with it.

Jolenealaska

I have never added salt to guacamole. My chips have varied.

huh

I'm a salt fiend too.

Jefromi

The current top few Google results for [guacamole recipe] have 1/2 t for 3 avocados, 1 t for 4, and 1/2 t for 2. No idea if that's how much I use.

Jolenealaska

My doc broached the subject of reducing the sodium in my diet.

Jefromi

6:57 AM

Ah, maybe you shouldn't try salting your guac then!

Jolenealaska

I told her not a chance. I quit smoking, no way in hell I'm going to cut out salt.

Jefromi

You might like it, disaster!

Haha, well, of the two I think I'm glad you ditched the smoking.

Jolenealaska

Ah yes, me too. It took 4 attempts over 5 years.

Jefromi

Better than some people do!

Jolenealaska

It's a bitch!

So I'll do a test of salt, lime, and vit C on Sunday.

That should pretty much give all the data I need.

Jefromi

7:02 AM

Just put everything in, salt, lime vit C, onions, water, jalapenos just in case.

Jolenealaska

ATK has got nothing on SA!

Jefromi

Well, not all of us have your dedication either.

Jolenealaska

Dedication? Pfft...too much time on my hands.

And I found the mother lode of internet food geeks.

cool

well, one hour after opening the onion container and not replenishing it, still no visible browning.

Jefromi

I think there are a loooot more out there that should really come here.

Jolenealaska

it really is a cool site.

I enjoyed the IMDb Food and Drink board, but I didn't learn anything. Nor did I feel that I taught anything. Here I have done both. A lot.

Jefromi

7:17 AM

Yup, I'm definitely still learning too.

Jolenealaska

I think I can call this quits at 12 hours. The samples that haven't browned are going to dry out before they do. They are not even showing signs of thinking of browning.

and the samples that have browned are black.

I was floored with myself that I successfully made croissants. Where the hell did that come from? A year ago I had never baked a cake that didn't come from a mix (OK slight exaggeration, but not much of one)

Jefromi

I have been meaning to try that!

Jolenealaska

Way easier than I thought it was going to be.

I used the Paul Hollywood cheat that isn't a cheat at all. Grating the frozen butter.

epicurious.com/recipes/food/views/Croissant-Dough-103988

Jefromi

Yeah, going to have to do that.

I get them at work breakfast a lot of the time but probably better fresh and someone else who lives here is glaring at me right now.

(She does not get those croissants.)

Jolenealaska

7:33 AM

The thing I found surprising is that keeping the dough in a perfect measured triangle through the folds was pretty easy. The dough is easy to work with. hehe:)

I'm dreading the day that Tall's wife looks over his shoulder without him knowing.

"Honey, I can explain!"

rectangle that is...strange, I edited it for exactly that, and repeated the mistake.

Jefromi

Time for me to go!

Jolenealaska

CYA!

Speaking of Tall, he should be here any minute :)

OOH actually maybe not, it's Friday which means it's his Saturday. Well that sucks.

Who is going to entertain me now?

Tom W

9:43 AM

hi

Jolenealaska

Hi Tom, how are you?

Tom W

good, thanks

finished work for the year now :D

you?

Jolenealaska

I'm very excited about my most recent batch of food experimentation.

Tom W

is that the guac stuff?

Jolenealaska

yes. Just as jef left I added salt to the equation. Now, it rocks.

Tom W

9:50 AM

I don't think I could tell you off the top of my head what guacamole tastes like

Jolenealaska

LOL

It tastes like avocados, but spicier! :)

Tom W

other than some wisecrack about moles

Jolenealaska

The thing that makes avocados cool is their creaminess.

Tom W

Figuratively, of course.

Unless the GMO labs have been really busy.

Jolenealaska

silly stuff

I have enough real worries

no sense in making shit up

Tom W

10:04 AM

Ugh. I've done what, three trips in the car to my new place I think, and there doesn't appear to be any less stuff still to take.

Jolenealaska

Moving has to be one of the least fun things ever.

Slightly less fun than serious dental work.

That's the main reason I am still in this apartment.

I'm hoping to die before having to move.

Tom W

If I had a significant amount of furniture etc I think I'd just pay movers

Jolenealaska

Even with movers it sucks.

Tom W

Turns out the gas supply I restored is a complete rip-off

It's used ~£8 of gas in four days.

so I've sent an enquiry to the company to see about getting onto monthly (i.e. normal) billing. Apparently they charge to replace the meters so I included that I can't see why I should have to pay for this

That is, pay to not be ripped off by something they did for their benefit

Jolenealaska

10:24 AM

Hmm I'm trying to get a number to compare, but all I am seeing here is a price per BTU.

Tom W

yeah most tariffs have standing charges and prices per unit, they're quite difficult to compare

that's about double the price it should be, although I did tinker with the boiler such that it was on continuously in that time

Jolenealaska

I have been shocked at the difference after changing all of my lightbulbs to low wattage fluorescent. (from incandescent)

I thought I'd save a buck or so per month.

I have consistently saved $20 per month.

Tom W

How long ago was that? I must have done that at least 10 years ago, not bought an incandescent bulb since apart from for things that only take those

there are still some weirdly-sized fittings going around

Jolenealaska

I made the switch less than a year ago.

It cost a bit to buy all new...I put it off.

Tom W

They do take a while to warm up, and that's fairly annoying

LEDs are quicker, but more expensive still

Jolenealaska

10:36 AM

This is soo weird!

with salt, the lime juice seems to be slowing down the browning.

Tom W

Curious. Expect many upvotes :)

Jolenealaska

Oh yes, publish it, they will come.

My original avocado experiment holds the record for the highest upvoted (non-wiki) answer ever.

On SA that is.

Tom W

:D

Jolenealaska

so I am treading carefully here.

You don't lightly screw with an answer that has 104 upvotes.

"Corn Flour (ground whole corn), Corn Meal (coarse ground whole corn), and Corn Starch (fine ground corn - bran and kernel removed) are three very different products. If Corn Starch in the UK is called "Corn Flour", then what do they call actual Corn Flour when they want to make Tamales or Tortillas?"

corn meal?

Tom W

I don't think anybody does

but I suppose so

Jolenealaska

10:46 AM

well, what do you call it?

Masa?

Tom W

Corn meal, apparently tesco.com/groceries/product/details/?id=255575078

I wouldn't call it anything since it's never occurred to me as something I might need

Jolenealaska

figured

Tom W

I'm going to downvote that since it's not an answer

Jolenealaska

Oh it isn't. I've already flagged it.

Tom W

I've tried to add some value in a comment

maybe at least someone will learn something

Jolenealaska

10:59 AM

Good job!

Jolenealaska

3:26 PM

Even after falling asleep for 4 hours:

Tom W

pretty good going

and realistically they'd all be in a sealed container until eating time, right

Jolenealaska

Yep, I would say the best answer is Vitamin C and airtight packing.

With onion.

Tom W

You said about risking the question and its votes: I wonder how many posters will be like Your evidence disagrees with my preconceived worldview wharrgarbl downvote

Coming in here with your science

Jolenealaska

I expected that from TFD, but no downvotes so far (see comments):

104

A: Browning Avocados - What Helps?

Which acid works best to keep avocados from browning? Answer: None (of the acids tested) It's not that acid doesn't do much to help. ALL OF THE ACIDS TESTED CAUSED AVOCADOS TO BECOME MORE BROWN AND TO BECOME BROWN FASTER THAN NO TREATMENT AT ALL I am not kidding. Method For acid, I used fre...

Tom W

How dare you contradict my dear mama etc

Jolenealaska

3:36 PM

With salt, lime is better than no lime. Go figure.

Tom W

Something about acids being reducing agents in certain circumstances. That's probably something to do with it

Jolenealaska

interesting that 1 acid (ascorbic) is so different from another (lime juice)

but I have my data now. I'll wrap samples of plain avocado and avocado with salt, lime and vit c and put them in the fridge. I'll snap pictures every 12 hours for 3 or so days.

Then I am putting this to bed. On that note, I am going back to bed for a few more hours. G'night again!

Tom W

g'night!

try not to dream about avocados

Cerberus

6:52 PM

@Jolenealaska Extremely interesting, all this.

One little thing: in your answer in its current state, I read the hand-written "6" in your images as "4".

Tom W

what 6?

Cerberus

@Jolenealaska One other thing: have you tasted the guacamole with ascorbic acid that had remained green after 24 hours? Did it still taste good?

@TomW Hi! In her answer to the Question.

Tom W

Ohhh.

Yeah, I see it

Cerberus

She has two images with a "6" in the centre.

Meanwhile:

4

Q: Is Amsterdam a dog friendly city?

Are there many places in Amsterdam that would be happy for us to bring a dog in (cafes, restaurants, public buildings)? What is the general attitude to dogs in public places in the Netherlands?

netherlands amsterdam pets

My city is friendly to me, a dog.

Tom W

Arguably you are several dogs

sprang to mind

SAJ14SAJ

7:39 PM

Hello boys and girls.

I guess no one is home now....

Cerberus

8:08 PM

@SAJ14SAJ Kitty!!

Aww, missed you.

Jefromi

8:32 PM

@SAJ14SAJ Hey!

Jolenealaska

8:50 PM

@Cerberus I tasted all of the samples that stayed reasonably green, now at 21 hours. The onion sample does taste quite oniony. I don't think that's a bad thing for quacamole.

The best tasting was the sample with salt, lime and vitamin c.

Cerberus

@Jolenealaska Hmm how about the taste of the sample with just vitamin C? And the one with lime and vitamin C? Were they servable for guacamole?

Jolenealaska

I'm going to make guacamole with lime Vit C and salt, just in a little bowl. I'll put the bowl in a bigger container with onions in the bottom an a lid. I'm also doing the Vit C mash, the salt, Vit c and lime mash ands plain mash and stuffing little ziplocks with it,

The vit c is pretty flavorless.

The best tasting combo was salt, lime and vit C.

That last one mixed with good drained salsa would be perfectly good guacamole.

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