The Frying Pan

Jolenealaska

11:00 AM

@ElendilTheTall Have you played Broken Sword?

ElendilTheTall

@Jolenealaska way back when, yes

Jolenealaska

Do you show it to me as a recommendation?

BESW

If you play on a Windows machine, you can use Steam to get Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis, a 1992 point-and-click sidescroller which is the closest thing to an "authentic" 4th film there was before Crystal Skull. I highly recommend it, and it has replay value because there are three different ways to play the middle third of the game.

Jolenealaska

I think I'm going to download something...Baulder's Gate is another one to consider

ElendilTheTall

@Jolenealaska yes

BESW

11:04 AM

Again, no reflexes required. Excellent Indy humor and storyline, good voice acting, challenging but not utterly frustrating puzzles.

Jolenealaska

I wish I could put you into my skull so you could experience why I loved Betrayal at Krondor. I want to re-experience that.

BESW

I don't have enough experience with video/computer games to be of much more help, I'm afraid.

I can see if anyone in rpg.se chat is familiar with Krondor; they might be able to suggest similar games.

Jolenealaska

@ElendilTheTall Have you played Baulder's Gate too?

ElendilTheTall

yes

Baldur's :)

Jolenealaska

OK

ElendilTheTall

11:06 AM

and Icewind Dale, which is Baldur's Gate with snow

it's very D&D, hit points and all that jazz

BESW

If you like Penny Arcade (not everyone does), their On the Rain-Slick Precipice of Darkness games don't need reflexes.

Jolenealaska

If I were to look at that Game, I'd probably want the very original

(Balders)

I think I like D&D hit points and stuff...

@B

ElendilTheTall

well, they're not exactly expensive, you can try BG 1 and get BG 2 if you like it

BESW

I don't think the Civilization games require reflexes...

Jolenealaska

@ElendilTheTall Sure, it's not the money...I just...I want a very simple learning curve...I don't want to invest of myself into something that ultimately doesn't trip my trigger.

I'm all about the story

I don't want to feel "tested" as much as "guided", does that make sense?

ElendilTheTall

11:14 AM

yes

well, it's non-linear

there's a main story arc, but also many, many little side quests

so you go at your own pace

if you want to noodle around clearing rats out of caves for Mrs Miggins, you can do that

or you can go and take on a dragon or something

Jolenealaska

@ElendilTheTall You're speaking of Balder?

ElendilTheTall

yes

Jolenealaska

That sounds about right for my mood. It seems I may have played it a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away but it's a very vague memory

BESW

I've heard good things about Baldur's Gate.

Jolenealaska

Ok, I'll try it.

BESW

11:18 AM

On the other side, my rec is Fate of Atlantis.

SAJ14SAJ

Baldurs Gate a is a masterpiece, but it is not berginner friendly. If we are recommending ames for a nongamer, I would go Kotor, Knights of the old republic. It is a little gentler.

BESW

It's not free-form, but it's fun, quick to learn, and has a great "classic Indiana Jones" story.

Jolenealaska

Uh oh, I do like "beginner friendly" Kotor? Good story?

SAJ14SAJ

Its Star Wars!

BESW

@Jolenealaska I've heard good things, including one friend who said that it's the only good story to come out of the prequel part of the franchise.

Jolenealaska

11:21 AM

No reflexes required? (that's important)

SAJ14SAJ

It is pause any time

Jolenealaska

so no battle will ever require me to hit anything before something hits me?

I don't like that.'

SAJ14SAJ

It hass pseudo real time combat. There are timed turns, but you can pause any time and give orders to your crew. It is not a reflex or twitch game.

Noting I recommend ever will be twitch, because I have none.

Jolenealaska

Can you show me a link?

BESW

For something totally different, there's Dear Esther, which is less a game and more an experiment in interactive non-linear storytelling.

SAJ14SAJ

11:25 AM

store.steampowered.com/app/32370/?snr=1_7_15__13

BESW

In Dear Esther you wander around a beautiful but desolate abandoned island in first person. As you travel, a narrator (your character?) reads aloud bits of letters to someone named Esther.

SAJ14SAJ

@BESW Sounds horrible, but I hate, hate, hate epistolary novels.

BESW

The order of the letters is semi-random, partly based on where you choose to walk, and partly randomized.

They're designed so that the story you get is different every time you play the game. It contains certain constant motifs, but it's always new.

ElendilTheTall

why oh why doesn't GoG sell TIE Fighter

I sank hours into that game

it is the reason I still reverse the Y axis in any FP game to this day

also the reason I always play RPGs as a bad guy

BESW

@SAJ14SAJ +1 for knowing what they're called! And yes, it's a genre that's very easy to get horribly wrong.

SAJ14SAJ

11:29 AM

@BESW And impossible to get right ;-)

BESW

@SAJ14SAJ I think The Woman in White managed, but that's because the epistolary format was part of the point of the thing; it wasn't a gimmick, it was the purpose.

SAJ14SAJ

Now if you are willing to go old school, and have patience to let it get to love you, and no real time anything, Might and Magic V/VI is on GOG.

@BESW Sorry, never heard of it.

BESW

@SAJ14SAJ It's a kind of Victorian Rashomon, an 1859 English serial-magazine mystery story in which the truth is concealed in the conflicting reports of unreliable narrators.

ElendilTheTall

wow, GoG has SWAT 3

played that to death too

SAJ14SAJ

You are not selling it to me :-)

BESW

11:33 AM

It's supposed to be Wilkie Collins' rebuttal to Dickens' Bleak House, a sort of "this is how you REALLY write that kind of thing."

ElendilTheTall

unique in that you didn't just shoot everyone, you had to give them the chance to put their weapons down

SAJ14SAJ

@ElendilTheTall then shoot them? ;-)

ElendilTheTall

if they didn't put their gun down, yes

"PUT THE GUN DOWN, DOWN ON THE GROUND, DO IT NOW!!"

I can still hear it

also the first game I recall where you saw yourself in reflective surfaces

SAJ14SAJ

Its not the single best game in the world... in fact, it has huge flaws.... but the game I spent more hours with than any other (excluding the CIV franchise) is Masters of Magic, which is on GOG. I still play it from time to time.

ElendilTheTall

Messiah is on there, that was an interesting one

you played as a Cherub, which could possess any NPC

SAJ14SAJ

11:37 AM

Ah, but it is a twitch game...

My collection

AGE OF WONDERS

AGE OF WONDERS: SHADOW MAGIC

ARCANUM: OF STEAMWORKS AND MAGICK OBSCURA

BALDUR'S GATE 2 COMPLETE

BALDUR'S GATE: THE ORIGINAL SAGA

EADOR: GENESIS

EMPIRE EARTH: GOLD EDITION

HEROES OF MIGHT AND MAGIC® 4: COMPLETE

ICEWIND DALE 2 COMPLETE

ICEWIND DALE COMPLETE

JAGGED ALLIANCE: DEADLY GAMES

KING'S BOUNTY: THE LEGEND

LEGEND OF GRIMROCK

LORDS OF MAGIC: SPECIAL EDITION

LORDS OF THE REALM: ROYAL EDITION

MASTER OF MAGIC

MASTER OF ORION 1+2

MIGHT AND MAGIC® 6-PACK: LIMITED EDITION

That is my GOG list

ElendilTheTall

hmm

which to get - Thief or Thief 2

Thief was amazing but had the unbelievably terrifying Down in the Bonehoard mission

SAJ14SAJ

I generally go with later ones for better UI as some early games were very rought around the edges

BESW

I enjoyed the bits of Thief 3 that I played.

Jolenealaska

Sorry AFK for a while, @SAJ14SAJ, the link timed out, but you would say your other recommendation befor Balder's Gate?

SAJ14SAJ

Knights of the Old Republic

Commonly known as KOTOR

Jolenealaska

11:41 AM

And that one is in the Star Wars universe?

SAJ14SAJ

Yes.

ElendilTheTall

yes

set way before the events of the prequels, though

Jolenealaska

Would it matter that I have never seen or read anything outside of the original trilogy/

?

SAJ14SAJ

It is very respectful of the universe, unlike the prequels.

No

Its on Steam for $10

Not on GOG, though.

Jolenealaska

Ok, and it gives me quests and puzzles that make me more powerful?

SAJ14SAJ

11:44 AM

Well, its an RPG. And there are puzzles.

ElendilTheTall

@SAJ14SAJ yes. It also has a distinct lack of trade delegations and tabling motions in the senate

@Jolenealaska you can build your own lightsaber!

BESW

@ElendilTheTall Just as well. Tabling motions is a pretty twitchy business.

Jolenealaska

@ElendilTheTall Fun!

ElendilTheTall

different crystals give different effects

I believe you can also have two lightsabers and dual wield

you can also choose to be either a dark or light jedi

Jolenealaska

Ok, I think we have a winner with Balder's Gate as a close second, waiting in the wings.

ElendilTheTall

11:46 AM

wait until you can spell it :P

BESW

My contacts express slight skepticism that KOTOR will be reflexless enough.

I suggest that you look up "let's play" videos of it on YouTube.

SAJ14SAJ

If I can play it, anyone can.

ElendilTheTall

it only gives the illusion of real time combat

SAJ14SAJ

The actions are on timeers, and you can pause any time and queue up orders to your team

ElendilTheTall

and in fact I think you can set it so that it auto-pauses whenever combat is about to start

SAJ14SAJ

11:47 AM

Yes, and many other triggers.

BESW

The Fairy Nuff bows to experience.

Jolenealaska

YouTube? BRB

SAJ14SAJ

I would have recommended Mass Effect I, but they went twitchy in 2. I didn't even try 3. I heard they ruined the story though.

ElendilTheTall

well, for $26 of your American dollars I am going to get Crusader: No Remorse, Thief 2 and SWAT 3

nostalgia here we come!

@SAJ14SAJ not the story, just a bit of a shitty ending

2 was the best of the bunch

SAJ14SAJ

2 was too twitchy for me, I gave up half way through

ElendilTheTall

11:50 AM

I am, if I may be so bold, a twitch master

SAJ14SAJ

And from what I read, giant thingies being human/invader whatevers... and everyone dying... story ruined

ElendilTheTall

I was in the upper 1000s of several call of duties before I gave it up because it was sucking my life away

SAJ14SAJ

@ElendilTheTall Cool, but I cannot even win at Super mario.

On the other hand, josie, if you get a Wii or a DS, any of the Paper Mario games are wonderful. You do have rhythem timers, though,but even I can master those.

BESW

@ElendilTheTall [fights down urge to link Twitching Twilight gif]

SAJ14SAJ

@ElendilTheTall SA is my only internet fame.

BESW

11:53 AM

@ElendilTheTall Hmm. "Call of Duties" or "Calls of Duty"? [ponder]

ElendilTheTall

Only in the last CoD I played did I achieve the Holy Grail: playing an entire, ten minute match without dying

I believe my score was something like 42-0 (kills-deaths)

I was in some kind of trance

SAJ14SAJ

Hopefully you were not playing people at my skill level, because then that would just be embarrassing for uyou.

ElendilTheTall

no, varying skill levels

there's no skill-based matchmaking on Xbox Live

ah, the joy of broadband. 2Gb of games downloaded in about 4 minutes

Jolenealaska

Hmmm I just looked at KOTOR, It's weird, I cant explain it exactly, but I like a Renaissance or Medieval atmosphere better. With dragons and witches and ancient magic stuff.

SAJ14SAJ

You wouldn't say that if Patrick Stewart was in it.

You don't have to like it,.

there are lots of good dragonny ones.

Baldurs is a classic, but you reeally have to know your D&D rules, and it is very unforgiving.

You will try a lot of fights a lot of times leearning what to do.

BESW

11:57 AM

I said "Like Baldur's Gate" to a friend, and he said "Dragon Age." Not sure if it's reflexless, though.

SAJ14SAJ

Dragons age is is pausible real time, similar to KOTOR

ElendilTheTall

yes

SAJ14SAJ

I cannot recommend it though, it just isn't that good, and it has some deep flaws.

ElendilTheTall

also yes

it's boring as hell

Jolenealaska

@SAJ14SAJ Ok, you're my age...Remember Betrayal at Krondor?

SAJ14SAJ

12:00 PM

Sure, ja, you betcha.

Jolenealaska

That's what I want

SAJ14SAJ

its free

Jolenealaska

Just a different story

I can't get the freebies to work

SAJ14SAJ

It was fairly unique for its time. I don't know wht to tell you

Jolenealaska

But it was relaxed, no reflexes, it told a story and there was a pay off to each little quest

SAJ14SAJ

12:02 PM

Are you willing to put up with horrible to no graphics?

Jolenealaska

yes

SAJ14SAJ

Dark Age

Except I cannot find it on GOG or Steam, so it may not be easy to get

And I could be remembering the name wrong, its the one set in a midevael germany

Darklands!

But I cannot see any easy place to get it

BESW

A friend just seconded Heroes of Might and Magic, and suggested Shadowrun Returns.

Jolenealaska

I found it...It looks a little too D&D

SAJ14SAJ

Oops... found it on gog: secure.gog.com/game/darklands

HOMM is a strategy game, not an RPG

You hate D&D?

Almost every computer RPG is right out then.

BESW

12:06 PM

@SAJ14SAJ RPG is not a fast requirement.

SAJ14SAJ

And anyway, Darklands is based on some german table top game, not D&D

BESW

Look into games put out by TellTale Games. They're the modern-day LucasArts.

Jolenealaska

I was looking at DarkAge...Different than Darklands

SAJ14SAJ

Collie Trainer by PoopieRug Publishing.

Jolenealaska

Dark Lands looks much more like what I am looking for

BESW

12:08 PM

@Jolenealaska Is this accurate? Am I missing anything? Requirements: No reflex-based action, medieval fantasy a plus but not too D&D-ish, downloadable from a reliable online vendor, strong story a must.

Jolenealaska

The quick rules of Dark Age started with bit on 12 sided dice

BESW

Umm.

Should have high time-wasting potential.

Jolenealaska

@BESW Exactly

SAJ14SAJ

So chocolate, low calorie, rich, crunchy, smooth and creamy, and high in vitamins. No problem!

BESW

@Jolenealaska Talk a little about what "not too D&D-ish" means, please?

Also, do you mind if I invite a couple other people into chat to make suggestions?

Jolenealaska

12:12 PM

@SAJ14SAJ Something like that. I ate a torte once in Vienna (Betrayal at Krondor) and I want to enjoy a bite like I did way back whan.

BESW

I'm getting some good counter-arguments vs Baldur's Gate over in rpg chat.

Jolenealaska

I'll bring the link that had me saying "ooh too d&d...hold on

dark-age.com/Downloads/QuickStart/QuickStartRules_4Sept2011.pdf

This just immediately turned me off as "too D&D"

SAJ14SAJ

Well, if story is paramount, there is only one choice: Planescape.

BESW

afk, must restart browser.

Jolenealaska

Hm,m..Planescape search found this: kotaku.com/5989197/why-people-love-planescape-torment

BESW

12:18 PM

@Jolenealaska May I bring in someone more qualified than I to join this discussion?

Jolenealaska

Of course

SAJ14SAJ

@Jolenealaska Thatis the one.

@BESW I kind of think I am expert in this particular area :-)

Jolenealaska

That does sound appealing

BESW

@SAJ14SAJ More qualified than myself, and capable of offering intelligent counterpoint.

SAJ14SAJ

I think we are being invaded. Batton down the hatches and man the nautical sounding things!

Tynam

12:19 PM

@BESW Now torn between being flattered and looking around to see who you mean.

trogdor

well he just invited you sooo

Jolenealaska

Hi there

Tynam

;) Hi all

Jolenealaska

I'm 46 years old and haven't loved a game since Betrayal at Krondor

I really loved that game

I'd like to get swept away in a story like Idid then'

I want to care about my characters

Tynam

So, story above all, then game, then setting - but all options need to be playable without reflexes.

Entertaining question; thanks for bringing me in...

Jolenealaska

12:22 PM

paramount - no reflexes

I hate tht

that'

ElendilTheTall

@Jolenealaska cough Baldur's Gate cough

Tynam

Yep, still going there. Whether that's "no reflexes" is very much a matter of opinion, as it runs in real time, but you can pause and issue orders at-will, then unpause when ready.

Jolenealaska

I've kept the window open for Baldur's (haha sp[elled it right)

ElendilTheTall

yes, it has a learning curve, but it also has a manual, and you aren't a gibbering moron

SAJ14SAJ

Downsides of Balurs are its too D&D: it uses the arcane 2.5 ruleset, and it is brutally difficult.

ElendilTheTall

12:25 PM

@SAJ14SAJ maybe for you :P

Jolenealaska

Re baldurs: Thats OK, but I like the so,so,so relaxed turn based interface of Krondor

ElendilTheTall

have you tried chess?

SAJ14SAJ

Which gives you MM, but they are not big on story.

ElendilTheTall

i hear it's very much the coming thing

Tynam

If Baldur's Gate is an option, then strongly consider it's spiritual sequels Neverwinter Nights 1 & 2 - still D&D, but less brutally unforgiving. The NWN main campaign is nothing special plot and character wise, but the expansions are awesome. Also, they had the best editing tools ever released, so there's vaults full of player-created adventures, some of which contain beautiful and awesome storytelling and characters.

I could keep you busy for fifty hours or so just on top-ten-recommended player-made NWN mods.

Jolenealaska

12:27 PM

@ElendilTheTall CHESS&RPG&AGREATAUTHOR

Tynam

But for sheer character, consider Baldur's Gate's spin-off Planescape: Torment. Same system, same controls, but less unforgiving (simply because your character is immortal... sort of), and contains some of the most amazing character, dialog and development of it's time, or any other.

I once spent more than 40 minutes in a single conversation tree. Discussing philosophy with a gith war-monk.

Jolenealaska

@Tynam, SAJ just recommended that and it did look very appealing (planescape)

Tynam

For your requirements I'd take it over Baldur's.

SAJ14SAJ

Then again, I think Peggle 2 came out.

Jolenealaska

I think that's enough. I'll try it. If I don't care for it at least I'll have a reference to be able to articulate what it was that I didn't like :)

Tynam

12:31 PM

That said, all of these fail ideal requirements - they're real-time (pause-on-demand with programmable AI for your companions works well, but it's not the same as turn based) and they're all expressly D&D. To get good completely-turn-based you need to move away from fantasy a bit, or scale out.

Good plan.

BG / Torment are cheap anyway; if they don't work out, come back here and tell us why.

We'll find something with (different design properties)

Jolenealaska

I don't mind knowing that "the strength of my swing" counts on the roll of a virtual 12 sided die...I just don't want to be acutely aware of it. Does that make sense?

BESW

You don't want to hear the dice rolling, eh?

Jolenealaska

EXACTLY!

trogdor

lol

I played KotOR and only learned later that D&D mechanics were an element

so that is a thing

ElendilTheTall

Good Gravy, Gamers everywhere

Jolenealaska

12:37 PM

@BESW Did you look at this? Immediately I was turned off by the too D&D, you can hear the dice, flavor of it. dark-age.com/Downloads/QuickStart/QuickStartRules_4Sept2011.pdf

BESW

@Jolenealaska Umm. I think that is a tabletop RPG, not a computer game.

> Dark Age: Apocalypse brings this gritty, D20 driven, post-apocalyptic miniatures game to your tabletop.

Jolenealaska

that would explain it! :) I just Googled something here and that was the first page I saw...It turned me off, so I didn't look further :)

I read like 6 words, thinking it was the game that Saj had just reccommended.

BESW

I shall use The Googles.

I'm guessing SAJ meant this:

Dark Ages (1991 video game)

Dark Ages is a platform game written for MS-DOS, published by Apogee Software. It was the first shareware game to feature support for the AdLib sound card. Dark Ages was distributed as shareware. It consists of three episodes, with only the first episode playable in the shareware version. The episodes are: *Prince of Destiny *The Undead Kingdom *Dungeons of Doom The game was released as freeware on March 20, 2009. Plot summary The player controls the prince and heir to the land’s greatest kingdom (referred to as the Great Kingdom). When the prince was a child, Garth, a power hungry...

Or possibly this:

Dark Ages (video game)

Dark Ages is a MMORPG based on Celtic mythology, originally developed by Nexon and now operated by KRU Interactive. It is loosely based on the Korean game called Legend of Darkness. The American version was developed by David Ethan Kennerly who based it somewhat on the works of horror writer H. P. Lovecraft. The game originally thrived on player involvement in the management of the game and progression of the storyline, even going so far as allowing players control over in-game politics and laws. Storyline The backstory essentially is that a long time past, the people called Tuatha de ...

(There are a lot of things out there called "Dark Ages," it's hard to be sure.)

Jolenealaska

Where should I go to download Planescape/torment?

ElendilTheTall

@Jolenealaska gog

Jolenealaska

12:50 PM

OK, there it is...I have to find my billfold...it's around here somewhere, I've got a game to download :) I haven't done this for years and years.

BESW

"Billfold"? Sweet, I hadn't heard someone actually use that in conversational English.

ElendilTheTall

poor Jojo, trying to pay online with bills

she's finally lost it

SAJ14SAJ

@BESW I never meant that, I couldn't remember the name for Darklands

ElendilTheTall

1:13 PM

woah

I have just used Google Cloud Print

scariest shit ever

printing something from my phone, without any connection between them other than the internet

Tom W

on a printer that's yours?

ElendilTheTall

yes

or rather, my office's

Tom W

well that's no fun :P

ElendilTheTall

1:42 PM

@TomW ha

Jolenealaska

HUH, what do you call the thing that holds your cash and cards?

SAJ14SAJ

@Jolenealaska For us, wallet. For you, purse.

Jolenealaska

the billfold lives in the purse

unless it's in my pocket

I'm trying to install the game, I'm getting "Firefox doesn't know how to open this address, because the protocol (gogdownloader) isn't associated with any program."

??

SAJ14SAJ

2:00 PM

The gogdownloader is not always fun. Just switch to the html download

ElendilTheTall

2:16 PM

@SAJ14SAJ how would you like to do some good old fashioned code helping?

like the old days

SAJ14SAJ

Depends on how easy it is.... :-)

I am pretending to work today.

ElendilTheTall

well, it's java/ajax

I am refining my back end pages, specifically the page which we'll use to add bookings

SAJ14SAJ

You are using java now?

ElendilTheTall

if you recall, I'm using Ajax to populate a couple of dropdowns?

user choose the event, then Ajax generates another dropdown with instances of that event

Now, I'm wanting to implement a simple availability system where the availability is decremented by 1 for each booking - i know i know, it's not the best way, but this is fine for now

it's easy with the actual customer-facing page, because I'm only dealing with one event and one instance

SAJ14SAJ

Je ne comprends pas. You should not need to do so. Your db should be able to continuously provide the availability with the information you are already tracking.

ElendilTheTall

2:20 PM

how so?

SAJ14SAJ

Capacity- registrations = availability

ElendilTheTall

the thing is, capacity varies

SAJ14SAJ

It should be a data elmeent on the instance, then.

ElendilTheTall

we might initially set the capacity to, say, 5, but if it proves popular we can bump it up

SAJ14SAJ

then you would edit that data element.

ElendilTheTall

2:24 PM

hmm

so you're saying have a capacity entry and a registration count for each instance?

SAJ14SAJ

Close. Have a cap for each "entry" (is this what we were calling instances before).

You already track the delegates.

so counting the delegates gets you the registered count

And bobs your uncle, as you all say

That is, registration count is a computed or derived value, not one you store directly.

something like select count(*) from delegates where eventId = x and instanceId = y

ElendilTheTall

hmmm

I'm just going to do a backup and have a play around with this

ElendilTheTall

2:50 PM

@SAJ14SAJ hmmm, I'm getting confused here

my default state...

the delegates table doesn't track the instance, the registration table does (ie the registration table brings together the instance and the delegate)

so I guess I need to get the delegate count for each instance from registration instead

aaargh, my brain hurts

SAJ14SAJ

3:27 PM

@ElendilTheTall I am sure that has nothing to do with me :-)

ElendilTheTall

@SAJ14SAJ it has everything to do with you

if it wasn't for you, my brain would be happily coasting along with an HTML based website

SAJ14SAJ

You are far more powerful than you were a month ago

ElendilTheTall

that's what happens when you fall to the dark side

I've just realised the laser in my mouse glows red

just like a dark jedi's lightsaber

if I lose my hand at some point I'm going to be seriously freaked out.

and not just because I will have lost my hand

Cerberus

@ElendilTheTall Excise it.

And good morning.

ElendilTheTall

in that order?

@Cerberus where are you that it's morning?

Cerberus

3:39 PM

In Hades?

Where are you?

ElendilTheTall

metaphorically the same place

Cerberus

The order is yours to decide.

I see.

How so?

ElendilTheTall

code, horrible horrible code

Cerberus

Ah.

Excise code.

ElendilTheTall

if only

If I excise code, I excise my job :)

Cerberus

3:41 PM

Heh.

How about...if you buy a plastic substitute for the code, attach with cello-tape?

Something from a spray can?

A terrorist attack?

ElendilTheTall

now you're just spouting random sentences

Cerberus

Maybe.

Anything to divert your opponents' attention.

ElendilTheTall

I could really do with @derobert appearing abouuuutttttt...... now

SAJ14SAJ

a haze of fungal spores drift through the air

Cerberus

waves magic rod

ElendilTheTall

3:46 PM

@Cerberus hey, this is a family chatroom

Cerberus

@SAJ14SAJ That's disgusting!

@ElendilTheTall He started it.

ElendilTheTall

well I'm finishing it!

Cerberus

But I didn't know we were family.

ElendilTheTall

I consider you my favourite decrepit old aunt

@SAJ14SAJ I can get this to work in principle, but not in practice

SAJ14SAJ

@ElendilTheTall Don't make me post another thatcher picture...

@ElendilTheTall join

Cerberus

3:48 PM

Pah.

ElendilTheTall

@SAJ14SAJ join, you say...

this works, but only if I explicitly specify an instance ID, which is pointless

pastebin.com/TNkhUvMV

SAJ14SAJ

@ElendilTheTall Yes, I don't know your full schema, but you should still be able to get this information fairly easily with a join

ElendilTheTall

the problem lies in where the instance_id comes from

I have a do...while loop that outputs the instance dates, in which is the conditional that checks if availability > 0

the do while loop loops through all the instances for a given event, and outputs the date

SAJ14SAJ

You cn write more complex queries with groups and such... but I am not expert in this. It takes me hours to do what an expert might do in 10 minutes.

ElendilTheTall

i don't think it's a problem with the queries

the queries work, but it's a matter of getting the page to supply them with the id they need

you may tell me otherwise

SAJ14SAJ

4:00 PM

If you are generating a full table, you would not use dynamic tecnniques.

You would send all the data in the initial server-side generation.

Its a different use case

So you need a query that gives you each event / instance and its capacity

You then iterate that array to build the table of HTML on the page

And send it to the client

ElendilTheTall

hmmm, that's a point, I can grab the capacity in the main query, I don't need a separate one

derobert

4:55 PM

@ElendilTheTall hmmm, due to inclement weather, summonings today are delayed

Cerberus

No power outages, I hope?

derobert

5:24 PM

Nope, no power outages

@ElendilTheTall what was it you wanted to ask me?

Cerberus

5:50 PM

Good.

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