The Frying Pan

I mean, it is normal for them to be badly calibrated. But I thought that an oven which is 20 degrees hot when new continues to be 20 degrees hot later.

rfusca

@rumtscho electric coils in ovens can go bad. He could be baking much lower.

ElendilTheTall

7:05 PM

That would make sense

rumtscho

@rfusca Does "go bad" mean they can get hotter than before? i would have expected them to just burn out at some point.

rfusca

@rumtscho the question deals with his oven getting colder...not hotter

rumtscho

@rfusca Sorry, I totally forgot about that.

rfusca

@rumtscho lol

rumtscho

But wait, I am not so sure.

rfusca

7:08 PM

bangs head against wall

rumtscho

I mean, now he complains that they are overbaked on the outside and moist on the inside (at least after longer cooking)

This sounds like too hot a temp, not too low.

rfusca

"I bake them for 90+ minutes, they're still not done."

no brownie in a 8x8 takes 90 minutes

rumtscho

@rfusca I don't know how long you should normally bake a brownie for.

I am aware that they are overbaking-prone, so I thought that they are baked on a very low temp, like creme caramel.

rfusca

not typically

rumtscho

Who knows. Maybe the box-brownie hero hasn't noticed that his oven has a temperature setting, and accidentally bumped it a notch a few weeks ago :)

ElendilTheTall

7:11 PM

about 25 minutes at 180º @rumtscho

hobodave

you're not near Dallas are you @Sobachatina?

rfusca

@hobodave he's austin

hobodave

apparently a ginormous tornado is tearing it's way through/towards Dallas

ah good

rfusca

@hobodave eek, i got family there

hobodave

drudgereport.com

Sobachatina

7:14 PM

@tastefive is in that area.

rumtscho

@tastefive is nearer.

jinx.

Cerberus

Oh, dear.

Tornados bad.

Isn't there some way to stop tornados? Fire aluminium powder on them?

ElendilTheTall

@Cerberus dikes perhaps?

hobodave

a large hole through the planet, similar to a drain

let China deal with them

Cerberus

@ElendilTheTall Hmm...do those help?

rumtscho

7:15 PM

@cerberus you want to have an aluminium powder trail where the tornado went?

Cerberus

@hobodave Smart thinking!

rfusca

tornados are a fact of life...you get used to em

Cerberus

@rumtscho Will it be pretty and sprakly?

hobodave

wait for it

rumtscho

@Cerberus I would use other metals for sparkly.

Sobachatina

7:16 PM

Like Lead!

Cerberus

Hmm I'm very glad we don't have any natural disasters here, none that can't be stopped anyway.

rumtscho

Or maybe a mix of iron and sulfur.

Cerberus

@rumtscho Well, pick whichever powder you like.

Sobachatina

Ground vampires.

Cerberus

Just make the damned thing go away.

rumtscho

7:17 PM

@Cerberus Was this self-irony?

Cerberus

No?

rumtscho

There is always a tidal wave bigger than the ones the engineers planned for.

Cerberus

Well, that is supposed to happen once in 100,000 years now, with modern dikes.

An acceptable risk.

rumtscho

But how do you know that the one time for the next 100 000 years won't be tomorrow?

Cerberus

You don't.

And you don't need to know.

rumtscho

7:19 PM

Oh, it looks like iron-magnesium is a better mix for sparkly than iron-sulfur.

Cerberus

Good.

ElendilTheTall

@rfusca i.imgur.com/RYDJ1.jpg

meanwhile, at @Sobachatina's house...

►

rumtscho

Orgainsation is "which", not "who", right?

"This project was financed by an organisation who wished to promote reuse and collaboration in biological research"

ElendilTheTall

no, which

the organisation is a single entity

rumtscho

I get to correct a Britishwoman in English then :P

ElendilTheTall

7:32 PM

Technically I do, you're just the messenger :P

rumtscho

I spotted the mistake, and used you for verification purposeds only.

rfusca

@ElendilTheTall I do that but with one hand and one leg and blindfolded

rumtscho

Which means that she could have a lot of other mistakes which I didn't notice :)

ElendilTheTall

@rfusca of course, that's just the starting position

Cerberus

@rumtscho I think it should be that, not which.

You're looking at a defining clause.

rfusca

7:33 PM

ya, i'm gonna agree 'that' certainly sounds right to me

rumtscho

Really? To me, it sounds like it should be "which". But it could be a mistake I make/hear so often that it sounds right when it isn't.

ElendilTheTall

that's true actually

that does sound better

rumtscho

OK, I am beaten.

ElendilTheTall

damn you for blinding me to other choices rummers

rumtscho

Thank you for the input.

Cerberus

7:34 PM

Which is permissible.

ElendilTheTall

see, the Dutch speak such excellent English

Cerberus

But that is usually preferred.

ElendilTheTall

Ha, take this Young Earth Creationists! livescience.com/19425-earliest-human-fire.html

Cerberus

@ElendilTheTall It's just that we memorized rules at some point, which you never had to.

ElendilTheTall

that's true

or is it 'which is true'?

Cerberus

7:35 PM

So you would do it right intuitively, but rationalizing is much harder.

ElendilTheTall

oh god, language crisis!

Cerberus

It should be dat is true.

rumtscho

Well, I speak better Dutch than he speaks Bulgarian. So I can leave him his superiority in Dutch. (Also in Greek and I suppose other languages).

Cerberus

Congrats!!

I do not begrudge you your Bulgarian superiority.

rumtscho

@cerberus how many languages do you speak?

Cerberus

7:37 PM

Depends on your definition of "speak"...

I can say "good day" in Russian; does that count?

rumtscho

List the more substantial ones, please

Cerberus

And do dead languages count?

How substantial?

rumtscho

Dead languages count.

Cerberus

What should I be able to do in the language?

rumtscho

@Cerberus You can read a book in them, with or without a dictionary?

Cerberus

7:40 PM

With or without? And how much of it do I need to understand? And how hard is the book?

I know this sounds like nitpicking, but you would really get different answers.

rumtscho

You need to understand enough to make reading it worthwhile.

Cerberus

Hmm. Does any book count?

rumtscho

And it doesn't have to be a hard book.

No, not any book.

ElendilTheTall

rumtscho

But, say, the language level of Stephen King. He is quite easy for nonfiction.

ElendilTheTall

7:41 PM

Party on!

rumtscho

@ElendilTheTall who is this?

Cerberus

Hmm I don't remember reading Stephen King.

Do academic books count? Because those are often easier than novels.

ElendilTheTall

@rumtscho some random babies from Reddit dressed as Wayne and Garth from Wayne's World

Cerberus

And an anthology of newspaper articles?

rumtscho

Yes, i know they are easier.

Cerberus

7:42 PM

So it needs to be an easy novel?

rumtscho

I don't count reading a nonfiction book, by that measure I speak Dutch.

Cerberus

Really?

Cool.

I would actually have no idea for certain languages. Like I have never tried reading a novel in Italian.

ElendilTheTall

talking of Russia, this is awesome rt.com/news/space-nuclear-engine-propulsion-120

rumtscho

There are still more words which I don't understand than ones I understand.

But I can still get the meaning out of it.

And I would be able to do more if I bothered with a dictionary.

Cerberus

Okay then.

rumtscho

7:44 PM

It is just similar enough to both German and English to be easily understood.

Cerberus

Then I would name the following: Dutch, English, Greek, Latin, French, German.

I read novels or their equivalents in those.

rumtscho

Wow.

Cerberus

I might be able to read a novel in Italian, but I've never tried.

rumtscho

And there are more in which you can understand, say, a Wikipedia article?

Also, you speak better English than I do.

ElendilTheTall

I would love to speak lots of languages

rumtscho

7:46 PM

And you read Cyrillic too, if I remember correctly.

How much time do you spend learning languages?

Cerberus

Depending on the article: Italian, Spanish, Catalan, Galician, Portuguese, Plattdütsch, sometimes some Scandinavian languages and German dialects like Bayrish.

rumtscho

OK, I can do Bayrish, Berlin dialect, Pfälzisch and probably Plattdütsch for sure.

Cerberus

@rumtscho I can pronounce most of the letters in an awfully primitive way, that's all.

@rumtscho See?

rumtscho

Actually also Schwyzerdütsch

Although it is marginal.

Cerberus

Basically most Romance dialects/languages are readable for me, though perhaps not all. And many German dialects too.

rumtscho

7:49 PM

But they are not too far from German.

Cerberus

Right.

Let's try a Swiss article!

Hmm it doesn't have an article on "Switzerland", apparently.

rumtscho

But OK, if I count this way, I can probably understand quite a few languages. Macedonian, Serbocroatian, etc. I can probably do Ukrainian too.

Czech and Polish are harder than Dutch for me. Or maybe I never tried enough.

Cerberus

Ahh see?

It all depends on definitions.

rumtscho

OK, Ukrainian turned out to be very easy.

Cerberus

Really? Interesting.

rumtscho

7:53 PM

I mean, very close to Russian.

Cerberus

Ah, yes.

And you learned Russian in school, of course.

rumtscho

No, I didn't

I learned reading it by myself

Cerberus

Oh, cool.

rumtscho

But I don't speak it

Cerberus

It would be so cool to be able to read Dostoevski.

rumtscho

7:55 PM

I understand the words, and have built some strange intuitive understanding of the grammar, so I have no doubt what is the subject and what is the object in a sentence, for example

But I can't build sentences myself.

Cerberus

Right, that's probably Slavic intuition combined with experience.

rumtscho

@Cerberus I found Dostoevsky not worth it.

But I enjoyed Master i Margarita a lot.

Cerberus

I suck at speaking German or French, but I can read them quite well, and sentence structure is nearly always crystal clear.

Not worth it in what sense?

What's M i M?

rumtscho

In the sense that reading it isn't so pleasant.

M i M is a 20th century Russian classic.

Cerberus

Because it was too difficult, or because you don't like him in general?

rumtscho

7:57 PM

Really good book. Early 20th century, so slightly surreal.

@Cerberus Too difficult, but not because of the language.

Cerberus

Huh?

How can it be too difficult then?

rumtscho

It is not a book about plot, it is about the way the characters interact with their environment.

Cerberus

Yes.

But it's not hard to understand what's going on.

rumtscho

And their social environment was governed by rules which I found extrememly puzzling.

Cerberus

You mean 1900 Russia?

rumtscho

7:58 PM

So, I was full of false assumptions and misunderstandings.

Cerberus

Like which?

rumtscho

Yes, it is actually pre-1900.

I mentioned one above, it was about an officer swearing on his honor that he is not the murderer and the police removing him from the suspect list based on his word

Then there was the friendship between the aristocrat girl and the simple girl from the folk. I never understood why they are behaving the way they are behaving.

Cerberus

Hmm.

Which book did you read?

rumtscho

It was frustrating, trying to follow everything and failing.

Cerberus

That plot doesn't sound familiar.

rumtscho

8:01 PM

Bratya Karamazovi.

Cerberus

Ah.

I loved it.

How old were you?

rumtscho

OK, so you probably would love it in russian more, if you can read Russian.

Maybe 25.

Cerberus

It is also possible that you had to concentrate on the language so much that it inhibited your enjoying the story.

rumtscho

It isn't a book I read as a child, if this is what you mean.

No, I can read Russian without the need to concentrate on the language a lot.

It still feels unusual, but not really hard.

Cerberus

That may still be enough slow you down enough to not like the book.

Oh, well.

Perhaps it's just not your thang.

rumtscho

8:03 PM

But I liked Ana Karenina.

And some Chehov stories.

Cerberus

Tolstoy's plots are more straightforward.

rumtscho

Also, Ilf and Petrov are good.

Cerberus

In any case, I would like to read Tolstoy in Russian too!

By the way, we had to read literature in school in all those languages I mentioned.

Didn't you?

rumtscho

And of course Nabokov, although he has written enough in English to not have to matter.

No, we didn't.

Cerberus

OK.

rumtscho

8:05 PM

We are required to have two foreign languages at school

But in most schools, the kids don#t learn enough grammer in the second to advance to reading books.

Cerberus

No compulsory reading lists?

No books to be read for book assignments?

rumtscho

Not for the foreign languages. Each teacher creates an assignments list based on how advanced their class is.

Cerberus

Oh, I see.

rumtscho

At least for the second foreign language, and often also for the first.

Cerberus

Well, you caught up in English and Russian well!

And German!

rumtscho

8:07 PM

For Bulgarian, there arereading lists dictated by the Ministry of education.

English used to be my first foreign language before highschool, I spoke it pretty well back then

Then I went to a German-teaching highschool

So German became my first foreign language

Cerberus

Good.

rumtscho

And then I entered a German educational programme, so German became officially my first language, English my first foreign language, and Bulgarian my second foreign language.

At least this is how it is written in my German-law-conform highschool dimploma.

I picked up Russian by myself, and then I learned some Italian at the university.

But I am only at the verge of productive reading of Italian.

I can do it, but it is so slow and hard that it is almost not worth it.

And these are the languages I more or less know. I can read some other Slavic, Germanic and Roman languages at the point of getting what a Wikipedia article is about. Some more, some less.

Cerberus

Languages are fun.

rumtscho

But I miss the ability to speak a non-Indo-European language. The Indo-European ones are all so similar in grammar, it is boring.

Cerberus

Well, the IE languages are culturally more relevant for us.

rumtscho

8:12 PM

When I read the Wikipedia article on Basque grammar, I itch to learn it.

Cerberus

Heh.

I know the feeling; but then when you look at a Basque grammar...

...I feel I have learned enough languages for now.

I prefer perfecting the languages I already know.

Because the true value of knowing a language is art, not communication, at least for me.

There are always shortcuts around communication.

rumtscho

BTW @cerberus have you read Chingiz ajtmatov`?

I have heard he is one of the best authors Westerners haven't heard of.

Cerberus

No?

Never heard of him, hehe.

What age and genre?

rumtscho

Classic 20th century, mid-asian.

Chinghiz Aitmatov

Chyngyz Aitmatov ( ; ) (12 December 1928, Sheker, Kirghiz ASSR, USSR - 10 June 2008, Nuremberg, Germany) was a Soviet and Kyrgyz author who wrote in both Russian and Kyrgyz. He is the best known figure in Kyrgyzstan's literature. Life He was born to a Kyrgyz father and Tatar mother. Aitmatov's parents were civil servants in Sheker. In 1937 his father was charged with "bourgeois nationalism" in Moscow, arrested and executed in 1938. Aitmatov lived at a time when Kyrgyzstan was being transformed from one of the most remote lands of the Russian Empire to a republic of the USSR. The future...

As for the language as art, I support you wholeheartedly

This is why I love learning new languages too

Cerberus

OK I will keep him in mind!

rumtscho

8:18 PM

But there are languages which are so different than the ones I know that even a bad command of their principles sounds like a bigger enrichment in my way of thinking than a perfection of a language I know

Cerberus

I suppose.

I would not be averse to learning some Chinese.

But it is so alien...

rumtscho

No, I don't feel like learning Chinese. I don't know why.

But there are other interesting languages.

The coolest grammatical features seem all to be present in Native American languages.

Cerberus

Hmm like which features?

rumtscho

I forgot them. But I think some of them had cases for things I wouldn't have expected there to be a case fo.

Cerberus

Heh.

Bulgarian is already quite weird as you described it.

Buttt I have to go to bed.

I'm trying to get a normal sleep cycle.

(Weird, I know.)

Good luck in your linguistic pursuits!

rumtscho

8:22 PM

good night.

Cerberus

Good night!

Jay

8:36 PM

@rumtscho because you hate me :(

@Cerberus so you can talk dirty to me in my native language?

rumtscho

@Jay Stop taking this chat in such a personal manner

Jay

@rumtscho lol i was kidding. I know you weren't even thinking of me when you typed that as much as I hate to admit :P

rumtscho

If I hated you, I would stalk you and tell your dates you are terrible, or somehthing. Not refuse to learn a hard language which happens to be yours.

Actually, how much Chinese do you know yourself?

Jay

lol! oh so that's what you do if you hate someone. I'll remember to keep on your good side :P

rumtscho

You grew up in an English-speaking school, didn't you?

@Jay this isn't "what I do", I had to think of an example which would scare you.

Jay

8:38 PM

@rumtscho lol yea I speak one dialect of chinese fluently but its not a very well known dialect and I know passable mandarin

but i cant read or write chinese. only speak it

@rumtscho oh i see haha. Well you definitely scared me from ever doing it ever ever :)

rumtscho

@jay don't Chinese parents try to teach their children to read before they reach school age?

Or is it dependent on the social background of the family?

Jay

@rumtscho kinda but it was so long ago

rumtscho

And how long do Chinese children need until they can read and write fluently?

Jay

i forgot most of it

my brother who is 9 and in 3rd grade can read the chinese newspaper

rumtscho

Bulgarian children supposedly know all of the alphabet on sight by the end of the first grade.

In fact, maybe half of them still read sylable-by-sylable at that point.

Jay

8:42 PM

all of the alphabet? im pretty sure we learned that in kindergarden

rumtscho

We don't have a compulsory kindergarten

Children who go to preschool learn the alphabet there

Jay

we have like 3 years of compulsory kindergarden

starting at like 4

rumtscho

But the first grade starts with the alphabet

Jay

maybe its 2 years

i cant even remember

rumtscho

and everybody can say the whole alphabet by the end of the first grade

But the switch from individual letters to words is hard, and many kids can't process five at a time by the end of the first grade

derobert

8:44 PM

Hmmm, did the room switch to feed notices at top?

rumtscho

So they read two or three at once.

@derobert yes, hobodave got fed up with the feed.

I can understand these kids, it is about how well I read the Greek alphabet

I can name all the letters, but when faced with a word, I have to remember each letter separately.

Jay

so i got some massaman curry paste and I cant find any good recipes that doesnt require like 10-20 additional herbs and stuff that ive never heard of

rumtscho

I had a relatively good curry recipe recently

Jay

im just going to improvise and throw some veggies, curry paste and coconut milk together and hope for the best

Mien

@derobert I like it better that way.

Jay

8:47 PM

@rumtscho care to share?

rumtscho

Or is massaman some special kind of paste?

Jay

its like red thai curry paste

derobert

@Mien I think I slightly prefer the inline notices, but really either is fine

rumtscho

epicurious.com/recipes/food/views/Chicken-Curry-237212

No, this is Indian curry

I didn't have currants

Had planned to use raisins, but forgot them completely.

It was rather easy to make, and tasted well.

Jay

i have maybe 25% of all of those lol

rumtscho

8:48 PM

Oh, and I didn't have ocra

Jay

I think ill just improvise with whatever I have. Im sure itll be fine

ElendilTheTall

gah, you need more spices in a curry than curry powder

rumtscho

I used green beans.

ElendilTheTall

@mien where's my Draw Something drawing?

rumtscho

@ElendilTheTall Could be. I like my meals underspiced.

ElendilTheTall

8:49 PM

of course you do

Jay

I just want a nice curry dinner tonight that wont take me 4 hours to look for all the crazy ingredients at a asian supermarket

Mien

@ElendilTheTall Sunday! Be patient :)

And be warned, I'm not an excellent drawer :p

ElendilTheTall

Sunday?

Jay

you guys are playing a game outside of chat. Gasp!

Mien

Yes.

I don't have a smartphone.

ElendilTheTall

8:50 PM

@jay We all meet up every week without you

Jay

ok i really need to do laundry and dishes. my house is piling up in shit

ElendilTheTall

@mien but you're getting one Sunday?

Mien

No, I'll see my bf and he has one.

ElendilTheTall

ah, I see

Mien

Good boy :)

ElendilTheTall

8:51 PM

:P

Don't make me ridicule you for your tragic lack of modern technology

Aarthi

it took me years to get a smartphone

cost me a pretty penny but it's sooooo worth it!

Mien

I don't need it.

Aarthi

lies

Mien

oh @ElendilTheTall I also linked that picture here! two or three days ago...

Aarthi

you think you don't

Mien

8:59 PM

But I didn't get a star :(

Aarthi

but you do.

Mien

@Aarthi why do you need it?

rumtscho

YEs, I think I should get a new one.

I like my current one, but the market doesn't :(

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