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4:00 PM
@RоryMcCune i used a really intense macro chaining with intruder the other day
 
bob
any sec engineer here? except mark buffalo
 
it didn't work because i couldn't get session values to pass properly, but it was kinda neat to do
 
@bob again, what kind?
 
@bob define "Sec Engineer"?
 
app/sw/hw/network/crypto/etc?
 
bob
4:00 PM
yes im sorry
kinda pentester?
 
dfddddd mmmmm
 
@bob ....of.... what?
OS / network / apps / web / etc?
 
Bob
Pentest all the things!
 
@MarkBuffalo Thanks, I kinda got out of the habit of being here.
 
@Bob especially the bics!
 
4:02 PM
dammit. daughter is on the desktop hitting the keyboard lol
 
@Bob "pentest" means different things to different people
 
bob
pref web avid
 
and, most of them are wrong
right @RоryMcCune?
 
Bob
@AviD 'twas a joke
 
@AviD <shudder>
 
bob
4:02 PM
people that tries to get in the app,server,and gain access?
 
@Bob damn cant keep my bobs straight
 
yes
several of us
 
Bob
lol
 
is the short answer
 
/me is a web app pen tester among other things
 
4:03 PM
also, most pentesters (whatever that means) are specifically NOT security engineers.
 
We have two bobs, wow
 
generally speaking.
 
bob
@Matthew do you like it?
 
@AviD Most pen testers can tell you what the problem is, but they might not be that good at working out what the fix is
 
@Matthew "most" clearly you havent met many pentesters
 
4:04 PM
@Matthew Exactly
I specialize in fixing the problems too
 
@bob Mostly. Can be very intense at times, and very dull at others. It's much like any other job, but you get to break more things
 
but yeah, exactly.
 
In some cases, I cannot fix the problem. This causes shame
 
@AviD Only a few hundred. Mostly fairly good ones though! Don't know many bad ones...
 
Bob
Well, I'm out. Have fun, and I look forward to browsing through the pings in the morning :P
 
4:06 PM
wow! that means you are either incredibly lucky, or incredibly clueless ;-)
 
bob
later bob
 
@AviD pls you know who @Matthew works for... we all know how to describe the problem, or know who to ask if we don't :)
 
@RоryMcCune uhh no I don't? Should I?
 
@RоryMcCune Exactly. We can either describe it, or ask @RоryMcCune and he can :-)
 
@AviD he works for the same $testing_company as me. Thus the knowing a couple of hundred testers
 
4:07 PM
@RоryMcCune ahhhh
okay then, that is a small non-diverse specific group of people.
 
@Matthew well if it's XSS I just ask Soroush
 
bounce around between several consulting companies, and several clients, and you'll see greater variance.
 
and if it's SQLi I ask Bernardo
 
it's always either XSS or SQLi.
 
@RоryMcCune Yeah. He's scary at that...
 
4:09 PM
@AviD actually I've been XXE'ing it up lately
 
@Matthew You work with @RоryMcCune?
 
what is it with XML parsers and supporting that
 
@RоryMcCune yaaay.
 
bob
^ those are the 2 most common vulnerabilities avid?
 
which is basically a form of XSS in your SQLi.
 
4:09 PM
@RоryMcCune And he is carefully hidden away when clients see certain strings in log files!
@MarkBuffalo Yes. Well, for the same company
 
@Matthew yeah I know actually he's just scary at web app. vulns full stop, I read his write-up of finding a blind SQLi in an encrypted field, was impressive
 
@RоryMcCune ewwww
 
@bob no, but those are the most commonly found by weak pentesters.
well yes, they are the most common, but thats not the point.
 
oh my gosh super intense stretch
I think I just dislocated my heart
 
@kalina you have a heart?
 
4:10 PM
the best stretches are the ones that make you feel light headed after
 
how rude
 
hehe, gotta make up for being too nice to you this morning.
 
you weren't nice
you were tolerable
 
@AviD Here's another funny vulnerabilty agility.... function is declared public / defaults to public. One function isn't properly protected, but the coder expects it to be only accessible within the code. For example, you'll check an input get/post variable, and then call a function if it's okay... well, the funny thing is you can modify the javascript to point to that function and call it directly
 
for me, thats the closest I can get
@Ohnana which reminds me, havent had yoga in a while :-(
 
4:12 PM
@AviD If your pentester doesn't find them, they've probably not looked. The good ones will find logical flaws in your systems, infrastructure failings, and even developer stupidity
 
@MarkBuffalo wait, on server side or client side?
 
example:

if ($_GET['var'] is valid) { call seriousFunction() }

seriousFunction() { accept without further checking }
 
@AviD yeah i need to work out tonight too
 
@AviD You can call the code client side
 
me too, I've done no exercise since Saturday
 
4:13 PM
@MarkBuffalo call the server function from the client side?
 
yup
You can do that in an awful lot of cases
 
ah, okay
 
did I tell you guys how awesome SP4s are
 
just the whole visibilty thing in general I find amusing. devs be like "oh noes, he cant call my private method, its private!"
uhh have you heard of reflection man?
 
yes reflection is that thing where I see how bad my hair looks first thing in the morning
 
4:17 PM
@AviD Yeah, so you can just make sure your function, if you really want it to be public, is properly handled
Properly handled input, etc
 
should always be true
 
I code with the assumption that i am going to make mistakes when it comes to security, so I cover edge cases
4
so I always validate input before letting it go in, so even if I mess up with public/private/whatever, it's not going to do them any good
 
@MarkBuffalo Are you trying to put security testers out of business!!!!
 
FFS
so I held down my surface pen button to open up cortana
and then said "go to sleep"
 
@Matthew I'm trying to protect my employer, and myself ;)
 
4:20 PM
thinking it would put the tablet in sleep
 
@Matthew please, it just thins the herd.
 
instead it bing'd this image:
 
leaves only the ones I like to call "the kind that know what they're doing".
 
@kalina ...
 
@kalina LOL
 
4:20 PM
@RоryMcCune well it's cortana so of course it used bing
 
@AviD This is a good point...
 
@kalina it wasn't the binging, more the idea that it decided to give you that image..
how is that number one for "go to sleep"
 
I have no idea
but I feel damaged
 
instead of a nice soothing fairytale story image
@kalina you should sue microsoft
 
I know many pentesters that think they are doing a good job, if they test a broken application and return a huge report.
 
4:21 PM
seriously, it's even high up on the list on google
if you google "Go to sleep."
 
@kalina lmao
 
then there are those that know the trivial broken apps are not our business, its the rock hard ones that matter.
and you spend hella more time and brain power on each meager flaw, until you turn the whole thing around against itself.
 
@kalina I think all of the results are disturbing...
 
@kalina why do I sense some google/bing bombing was involved in this, likely by 4chan
 
@AviD I consider it a success every time a vulnerability is found and fixed
Every single vulnerability + fix is a huge success. You just took steps to protect your data, your customers, etc
 
4:23 PM
interesting is when you cortana 4 chan by voice, it knows to use 4 chan and not four chan
 
yeah. a fruit orchard usually is not substantially fixed.
 
@AviD I have been known to go back to clients and say "look, this is so broken, there is no point me continuing with it in this state"
 
yet if you cortana "four cakes" by voice it uses the word
 
@Matthew exactly.
 
Microsoft secretly owns 4 chan - confirmed
 
4:24 PM
@AviD Of course... I'd say a good pentester would be someone who can find everything, and either suggest proper fixes, or fix it themselves
 
@kalina all makes sense now...
 
@Matthew I'd take it as a challenge to fix all the problems lol
 
@MarkBuffalo yes, but you missed my point: a good pentester knows what to test, and what not to bother, and what to focus on.
 
@AviD Do you mean because some problems are irrelevant?
 
@MarkBuffalo sometimes the right answer is to raze the orchard, and build it anew.
 
4:25 PM
Like only accessible locally?
 
@MarkBuffalo yes, but also that some apps are not worth testing.
 
because I can't begin to tell you how many airgaps I've broken out of
like I said, I account for edge cases
 
@MarkBuffalo no, not necessarily (though sometimes yes, depending)
 
I even account for a corporate spy sitting in front of my application madly trying to inject, etc
:b
but you're right, this all depends
 
@MarkBuffalo its not just edge cases, its accumulated attacks.
 
4:27 PM
There are a lot of factors and variables
 
Who starred that creepy image? Someone is going to wander in later, see that link in the side bar, and click. Then need therapy!
 
e.g. threat trees.
 
Yup, that too
I call it vulnerability chaining
find one vuln that gives access to another thing... find a vuln on that, and so on
 
@MarkBuffalo precisely. which a good pentester will take into account; a bad one won't.
@MarkBuffalo yeah
 
bob
@MarkBuffalo I must ask, doesn't the job becomes repetitive after a while? (in security) Thats my fear of going in this field
 
4:27 PM
@bob No... it gives me an outlet for my "issues"
 
@MarkBuffalo My favourite chain was a series of individually low risk issues, that combined to give root level shell access to the system
 
I need it
@Matthew Yup
 
@MarkBuffalo I did a great demo at a big european bank few years ago - chaining low level flaws between apps to achieve takeover of (simulated) criticial system
 
@AviD That is pretty much the OPM breach in a nutshell
 
@bob depends. after a while, you do see the same things over and over and over... so you need to either change your focus, or aim deeper.
 
4:29 PM
@bob not really. there's always new products, new vulns, and new depths of stupidty to explore
 
@MarkBuffalo true
 
and every other major breach
 
Any individual one wouldn't give you much. But taking them together resulted in a critical flaw in the overall system, making use of application and infrastructure level issues
 
bob
mhm okay yea
 
@Ohnana on the other hand, there's always more SQLi and XSS...
 
4:29 PM
@AviD Agreed. Getting complacent is dangerous. Constant education is necessary
I try to learn about all the latest threats and exploits so I can watch out for them
 
@bob no penetration test is identical
 
@AviD And for a lot of modern businesses, SQLi is enough to cause financial issues
 
Each penetration is unique in it's own way
 
@kalina untrue.
 
@Matthew Yeah, 90% of vulns I run into are input-validation based. SQLi, buffer overflow, etc
 
4:30 PM
@AviD you're wrong
 
@kalina I do have a counterexample for that, when clients decide that CSS changes require penetration tests on each site...
 
But I still check for the funky ones
 
from my extensive experience each penetration is definitely unique in some way
 
bob
kalina are you a pentester?
 
@AviD true. but if that's all you're doing you need to get better clients... or better skills
 
4:32 PM
that isn't the only thing I do with my time but it is one of the things I enjoy
 
@kalina after a one hour meeting with the devs, I can already give you a list of the top 10 things I will find. And where I will find them.
@Ohnana exactly.
 
@AviD just because you're going through the same motions doesn't mean it's identical to a past scenario
sometimes the testing will just hit that spot perfectly
 
Dental time......
 
enjoy having your mouth probed
 
@kalina no no, not the same motions - its just that developers are repetitive, predictable creatures.
also, I know you're being euphemistic, but I will insist on answering you seriously.
 
4:34 PM
I eagerly await that moment where I witness the @AviD being actually serious for once
waits
 
I just was...
 
oic
that didn't seem very serious
just looked like more procrastination to me
didn't you say you had something to do that involved not being here?
 
@kalina and you get a nice juicy... report
 
what, I was explaining my developer-psyche based threat-modeling methodology.
@kalina ah that, yeah hehe
 
@Ohnana juicy reports mmm
we all know that developers are basically the problem with everything
maybe we should start an anti-developer clique
 
bob
4:36 PM
what was your educational path to become in that field? Did you guys go to uni?
 
nah, I'm not anti-developer.
its true developers are the problem, but they are also the solution.
 
@bob I went to uni, then did web dev and server admin for ages, then moved across to testing
 
Steve Feldman on February 9, 2016
What's the deal with ad blockers?
 
bob
thanks!
 
@bob take a look at this:
64
Q: What are the career paths in the computer security field?

nealmcbWhat sorts of jobs are there, in which organizations, with what sorts of day-to-day responsibilities? What areas are good for folks coming out of school, vs what are good 2nd careers for experienced folks coming from various disciplines?

 
4:38 PM
I dropped out of school, spend ages fucking about with SQL and then quit the IT industry because it's full of fucktards
 
@bob accountancy-->IT server admin --> IT Consultant --> IT Security Analyst --> IT Security consultant --> Tester
 
bob
thank you for sharing =)
 
@StackExchange o lawd wat
@bob 1 year uni -> co-op job -> other co-op job
however, i am going to be completing a bachelor's and master's degree soon. so.
 
@kalina I think a lot of industries are like that. Publishing, for one...
 
yes, I'm realizing as I get older/more experienced that IT isn't alone in being full of fucktards
 
bob
4:42 PM
what do you mean by fucktards
 
@kalina no, it has it's own particular set, but so do most/all industries
 
@bob Excludes those that would traditionally be labelled "retarded" as they're unable to do anything about their affliction - true fucktards are 100% responsible for their situation and provide vast entertainment as they are usually blissfully unaware of their own Fucktardery. Most politicians for example.
also includes most middle management
well fine, way to kill chat
#chatkiller
 
@kalina i lold
 
5:00 PM
@bob my path: level 125 basement dweller
 
5:11 PM
Can someone have a look at this post: security.stackexchange.com/questions/58314/…
6
Q: How can I convince my communication partner to use encryption in everyday life?

n1000The latest developments made it very clear, how easily basically all communication channels can be wiretapped. However, I think most people still ignore this fact. Especially in business most confidential information is still sent totally unencrypted (at least at my company). I wonder if people a...

There are a couple of new answers by a brand new account which seems a bit odd
 
Checking
Uh
That's not how it works
Need to combine answers
Afk
 
@Matthew indeed, hey @AviD @RoryAlsop @schroeder @JeffFerland one of you lot want to merge those?
"This professional suction-cup headband lets you headdesk *and* tableflip in one smooth, powerful movement."
 
I just got a couple of them in review one after another...
 
^ ^ This sounds like a product with a market
 
my hearing is completely off topic, it's like I'm missing all lower mid range
obviously I need more sleeps
 
5:19 PM
@kalina is off topic the opposite of on fleek?
 
wow, my brain must be malfunctioning
and for some reason all of my waves plugins are unregistered now
I hope they don't have some stupid "one instance of the license activated" rule
because that will make me sad
 
@RоryMcCune OI!
 
@RoryAlsop :D
 
@kalina erm...
 
did I miss a word?
 
5:24 PM
@kalina lol
 
@kalina one of your productions?
 
hardly
 
@RоryMcCune that would be a turn up - kalina is actually George
 
@RoryAlsop or that she's his producer
 
5:29 PM
@RоryMcCune yeah, but that's not as funny
 
you can see from that video that he clearly doesn't need a producer
 
@RoryAlsop true :)
 
@kalina I first read that as clearly doesn't have a producer
 
@kalina has a kinda pomplamoose videosongs vibe going on
 
5:31 PM
his house is clearly full of musical instruments
I have no need for most of those instruments
 
@kalina there are many worse things to see in a house... like @MarkBuffalo 's little tray of horrors there
 
@MarkBuffalo quit bein a babby
 
@RоryMcCune Preparing for unknown implant... wherein they'll beam radio waves into my brain. I'll need double the tinfoil now
 
@MarkBuffalo there's an easy fix, microwaves will fry the implant, so you just need to stick your head in a running microwave for a while and that'll fix it
<disclaimer> no one should do that </disclaimer>
 
@RоryMcCune lmfao
I'm dying
@Ohnana how is babby formed
 
5:35 PM
@MarkBuffalo wanna find out
cuz i don't
 
you were quick there with the cuz I don't
defeated my response midtyping
 
\o/
 
this is why preloaded jokes are a thing
also the frozen chicken blob in my slowcooker isn't shrinking fast enough for me to get the lid on
 
murderer
 
5:38 PM
@kalina with a side of soy no less
 
yeah I'm failing to differentiate between all of the different layers today
back to more tomb raider instead
BOOM MURDERSHOT DEER DOWN WITH A SHOT TO THE HEART
bow+arrow4lyfe
you too can spend €3000 on plugins that can only be activated on one device at a time
 
@MarkBuffalo the horror!
 
@kalina that sounds like what I'd expect from expensive proprietary software for sure
 
@RоryMcCune yet all of my other expensive proprietary software allows activation of 3 devices
which leads me to a problem
 
@kalina you should complain to the vendor, you'd kind of hope that spending $3K on something entitles you to some customer support
 
5:45 PM
I can't activate them on the SP4s and my main studio PC
so I have to remove them from my workflow
 
(well unless the vendor is Oracle or Cisco or IBM)
 
they're primarily mastering plugins anyway so that's not really an issue
it just means that once a project gets to the final mixing/mastering stage I can't use that project on the SP4s because it will break those plugins when I reload it on my main machine
 
That implant only took like five minutes lol
 
@kalina yeuch
 
or I can remove those plugins from my workflow and use alternatives
 
5:48 PM
true
 
that (a) don't give the particular sound you get from these ones (b) aren't really as good as these ones (c) don't refund the cost of these ones
 
Sounds expensive
 
this isn't the event that sends me into a suicidal murder fest irl
#firstworldproblems
 
Sweet. $1400 after copay
Murica
 
Got my work laptop stolen off an airplane. It was encrypted, I have two factor authentication for practically everything, I've revoked sessions... and sometime tonight I'll rotate every password.

Not terrible in the end.
 
6:01 PM
what a lot of effort to fix something that is fundamentally user error
@MarkBuffalo $1400 for a dental implant?
 
@kalina That's the copay. It cost a lot more than that
Copay is what insurance makes you pay, in addition to what it costs every month
 
I want to laugh
but before I do I'm just googling the cost for the same thing elsewhere
initial impressions are I'm going to be laughing loud for a while
 
so you pay insurance and then basically pay the entire cost yourself anyway?
 
Ideally the copay is a smaller portion of the actual cost
It's like a deductible almost
 
6:16 PM
@kalina Companies charge insurance far more than the actual cost
insurance passes the price increase onto us through copays/deductibles
all the while insurance costs $1667 per month
fortunately, my employer pays that portion
 
@kalina talking of laughing - 3 Supermutants in a row carring the little handheld nukes. Got me every time :-)
 
@RoryAlsop pls... VATS > target nuke > KABOOMMUTANT
 
@kalina never thought of that. My VATS is still very hit or miss
 
@kalina so here's an example. blood tests for me cost about $300 total. The insurance covers very large chunks of each test, meaning I have to pay roughly $5
 
@Ohnana here. We pay nothing.
for any of that kind of thing
 
6:21 PM
@RoryAlsop i know
believe me I know
 
it seems crazy
 
o ovid is gone
 
however, my clinic leverages insurance in a interesting way
if you don't have insurance, you pay a charity rate. If you do have insurance, the clinic bills insurance and uses that money to cover someone else's medication
donations cover the gap
 
@AviD How can you be this disrespectful to a woman?
fkin rekt
 
@kalina Also never thought about that
 
6:23 PM
'MERICA HEALTHCARE
 
@MarkBuffalo that's why I completed the game 4 times in a week and most people still haven't completed it yet
no it isn't
it has nothing to do with it at all
in all honesty it took so many people so long to complete fallout 4 I lost all enthusiasm for even spoiling the ending
 
I stopped playing it. the game is shit
I just can't get into it
 
WOW
so what you're saying is you're shit and you're blaming the game
understood
probably died before getting out of concord
 
No, it's insanely repetitive
 
no it's not
now you're going to say something like
"well Preston keeps giving you these quests..."
to which I will say "randomly generated quests"
and you'll go "what?"
and I'll go "yes" nods
how about you stop doing the randomly generated quests and just do the actual quests and/or exploring
there's easily 40+ hours of just wandering around the wastelands and that doesn't get repetitive at all
 
6:27 PM
You're not repetitive.
 
you are
incidentally it took me 17 hours to complete Rise of the Tomb Raider
which was moderately enjoyable and didn't get boring once
it got slightly annoying at times - like Lara randomly deciding to jump to her death rather than grab onto the thing I was looking at
but that happens when you try and do platforming within 3D
 
i never thought i'd see feminist frequency and the ADL on the same list
 
welcome to tumblr 2.0
 
"the dangerous speech project" is also pretty awful
didn't catch that but okay
 
I wish we could search how many messages someone has deleted.
Oh damn, we can.
Hang on lads.
 
6:37 PM
oooh look here's a success story from the Dangerous speech project: allafrica.com/stories/201501021679.html
 
Ah nevermind, we can't.
Sigh.
 
@MarkBuffalo the dopest of hizzouses?
 
we're just in a small apartment now
 
my partner is running a kitchenaid next to me so i feel ya buddy
but he's making fresh pita bread so I think i can handle it
 
I think one more (removed) will result in a 265 day ignore list entry
 
6:53 PM
@kalina does it have a cool down timer like aggro?
 

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