DSLRs are a pretty simple category

cost and quality are proportionally related

seriously, don't bother buying a camera if you can't afford to get the lights

if you have to use your iphone for a while to get the lights, then get the lights and use the iphone until you can get a basic DSLR

I can afford everything just not everything at once

so pretty much about 250~400 USD monthly on equipment

if I can find everything on a single store I can use my credit card and divide it and get it all at once

but I doubt I can find it all available on a single store where I live

ya

is that much enough to buy all the parts in a few months?

just a quick sample of someone shooting with a lightbox and iphone

@Prix ya, its definitely enough to get started

instagram.com/p/m0oD0LS6i-

another example

well the thing is I don't have an iPhone and my own cellphone I can't dedicate it to it so I might just go ahead and get a camera instead and then get tent + light

and go piece by piece

That is pretty much the kind of shots I want to make

from my clients product

@Prix or just wait a month and get both the second month. Without the lights/lightbox you won't be able to do much

as far as a camera goes, you really don't need anything drastic. Product photography is about the least demanding photography there is for the camera itself

I have a hard time taking good product photos with my professional level 5D mark iii without a lightbox, even with my two speedlites

because I don't have the proper diffusion for working in close

or a proper backdrop for products

@AJHenderson well if there is a store here in my country where I can use my credit card to buy all together then that did be easier but if I don't I think getting the camera to start using it and see its functionality etc would be a good start not?

@Prix that's a good point

you could get a DSLR and practice with exposure and such in general

that's not a bad idea

Brandwise you can't really go wrong, Pentax, Nikon, Sony...even a Canon.

;)

cool thanks a lot for the info I am also planning on get one of those books first to learn more toward the illumination and stuff

Canon is generally the most popular, Nikon is very close behind (particularly in the entry level market) the rest are generally relatively distant, but still good and cheaper

before getting hte light

Right now I am looking at that site you suggest me early to see some models and price range adorama.com/l/Cameras/Digital-SLR-Cameras

and certainly, as you have more specific questions feel free to ask if they aren't already covered. Perusing the Product Photography tag might also be helpful

and there are pretty regularly people in chat if you aren't sure what exactly it is you need to ask

@Prix good deal

Will definitively do thanks a lot for the help, currently trying to pick one or 2 models to look for in local stores

sure

You may be able to find a good deal on a used one as well

and as far as the camera goes, the only real thing you will gain between the entry level models (rebel for Canon, I think 4 digit numbers for Nikon) and the mid-range models (2 digit models on Canon and some 4 and some 3 digit models on nikon(rfuska?)) is that the mid-range models will have slightly more accessible controls

and you have no reason at all to need to go in to full frame/high end models

they wouldn't do anything but drive your costs up and make you need more light

I will be honest with you I don't think I would be able to get a used one as I am afraid I would not be able to evaluate its state

you could also consider Rfusca's recent route and go for mirrorless cameras possibly

no, andy went mirrorless

@rfusca what was it you switched to then, was it a micro 4/3 dslr?

"mirrorless cameras"?

For Pentax, you'd be looking at the K-50 probably. But Pentax's strong suits really don't fit product photography

@AJHenderson Pentax

from Nikon

you mean that visor ?

@Prix a DSLR is a camera with a mirror that moves from seeing through the lens to a viewfinder and the lens moves to let the sensor see the image

a mirrorless foregoes the viewfinder and instead uses an LCD or EVF for checking what the camera is looking at

@Prix traditional DSLR's have a mirror that flips up and down inside when you take a picture. Its what redirects the image between the viewfinder and the sensor. Some new cameras don't have that mirror and read it all from the sensor

it's still interchangeable lenses

I see

but it is lighter and generally cheaper

(though it also uses more power)

but that doesn't matter so much for studio work

dinner time!

ciao

@Prix a middle ground is refurbished units

refurb units are reviewed by the manufacturer to ensure they are like new

Looks like I will take at least a month to decide on the camera LOL

well, the good news is there really isn't a wrong answer

until you know enough to be able to tell the differences yourself and choose based on them, you aren't experienced enough that the minor differences will matter

@rfusca thanks and cya

even as an experienced photographer, my main deciding factor between the Nikon D800 and the Canon 5D Mark iii came down to how it felt in my hands and how the interface was laid out

because everything else was so comparable between them

@AJHenderson I see, well I was saying in the general like there are so many model sclose in price and with slight differences I would love to find a good store around here to try some

@Prix yeah, that's your best bet

get hands on and see which you like the feel of

so that D3100 is what you were mentioning early "on camera flash"?

well there are two types of "on camera" flash

there are integrated flashes

which will come on most of the most entry level models

those are effectively worthless

they are weak and do more harm than good

then there are on-camera hot shoe flashes

which is a separate flash unit, but that is placed in the connector on top of the camera

those same flash units are capable of being used off-camera with a cable or wireless system

This one for example adorama.com/INKD3100KR.html

it seems the flash is plug'n'play

within each camera system anyway

generally speaking, most hot-shoes will provide information to almost any flash about the shutter firing, but will require manual setting

within each manufacturer though, there are automatic systems that can handle adjusting flash power for you

this is generically called Thru the lens metering or TTL

Canon's system is E-TTL

I forget the name of Nikon's

bhphotovideo.com/c/product/847537-REG/…

that's an example of a stand alone speedlite

which can be used on or off camera

that's Canon's top end model

with about 3 to 5 of those, you'd have enough light to get a good product photo of a car

That flash is pretty hot, damn there is so much details and important information

yeah, the rabbit hole goes pretty deep, but as you get familiar with it all, it becomes second nature

when I first got my 600EX-RT I was expecting it would be a bit of a let down spending that much on a flash, but the thing is fantastic and worth every penny. I want to get another 2 or 3 more of them

but first I have to finish paying my personal finances back for my camera rig

And you can change the color is that a visor that makes it on other color or the light

(I'm also a software developer as my day job)

ah its a visor thing you plug interesting

there is a filter holder for it

yeah

and you can insert filters in the holder

there's also a detector on it that adjust's the camera's WB settings if you insert the filter

and when you move to flashes you want either softboxes or umbrellas to soften the light for bigger stuff

when you can't use a lightbox

bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/Standard-Softboxes/ci/1337/N/4062040388

I personally use this one for live stuff, but you'll want bigger ones to give softer light

adorama.com/LQSBS.html?gclid=CLTJ5fiK670CFenm7AodXi0AhQ

I'm just constrained because I have to move around a lot and thus have to make do with a smaller one

I see, that is really interesting. You know reading all this really makes more sense buying the camera first learning how to use it and then moving to selecting the illumination equipment

but you can still get images like this

it doesn't have a white background, but you can see how it lights the statue there

that was shot using that small softbox and the 600EX-RT

the statue looks like having and extra focus

@Prix sorry, didn't follow what you were trying to say with that one

I mean with all the information about the illumination, the tricks, the types of flash and how they can be used, the umbrellas to reduce light and soft boxes it really made me sure that getting the camera first is the right choice I mean I know I wont be able to take the photos I want with just the camera but I will learn better about the camera it self and what I can do with it and have a better view of how to setup the space I have into a small studio

@Prix no, I meant about the statue

sorry

oh looking at the photo the statue seems to be mmmm

I am not sure how to put it, but the statue stands out

yeah, that's the depth of field at work

that's actually from my sister's wedding

I see

I shoot with relatively fast lenses, which means they have a shallow depth of field, particularly on my full frame camera

thus you can see that the center piece just a few inches behind it is already going out of focus

I see, so lens play a big paper on it, would you think I will initially need any kind of lens to what I am planning or at first just a basic camera will suffice?

when you get even closer to them, it becomes more pronounced

as you can see from the background there

Yeah that photo clearly shows it

(also shot with that same softbox and flash btw)

in the full quality version of that image, you can actually see the flash in the reflection in her eye

@Prix well that's the nice part about product photography

in general, you will be using lots of light and you will want a wide DOF because you want to capture the whole thing

rather than relying on blurring to separate the subject from the background, you are relying on light to do it

taking my sister's head shot for example, notice how her hair is out of focus

that would be a negative on a product photo

since it is going to obscure details of the product

which is why they use the white backgrounds so frequently and make it so you simply don't see any background at all for product photos

and then they can have a wide DoF where the entire product is in focus

but the flip side of that is that wider DoF comes from smaller sensors and/or smaller (larger number) apertures, which are also much cheaper

The only sad thing is that most electronic products that get here are sold for nearly 3 times of what they worth because of impost, so that D3100 for 300 bucks would be nearly 600~800 USD

Yeah a bit of her hair seems out

I see

so for my needs the light will play the big role

for example

this lens

adorama.com/CA1785AFSU.html

is a consumer targeted f/4-5.6 lens

it targets a small sensor and is slow (wide dof, but needs more light) so it is relatively cheap

moving up to a lens that works with FF, but still is fairly slow (requires more light) adorama.com/CA24105AFU.html

so the cost a little more than doubles for a larger sensor

but watch what happens when we make that lens a fast lens

adorama.com/CA2470A.html

that last one is the lens used for those two photos I showed

wow

so you get to pay more for lights, but you save a lot on lenses

note you can also use what are known as prime lenses which make it even cheaper

prime lenses have a fixed focal length (no zoom) but they are much higher image quality and much lower price

So if I have a fixed distance and product size to work with a prime would be best option price wise

adorama.com/CA5014AFU.html this lens is actually slightly higher image quality than that last lens I linked

they are very close, but the 1.4 wins by a little

prime is WAY cheaper

I see

@Prix right, cause you just move where your camera is

I don't have that option as an event photographer though

because I have to react quickly

so by the time I walk 10 feet, the shot is gone

yeah I get what you mean ;)

so instead I spend $2300 to do what you can do for $400

and honestly, you'd get fine results even with a f/1.8 prime

which is even cheaper

Hey thanks a lot for the chat it was very informative, I will start going around and see if I can find stores that are specialized on photography to see what sort of camera they have available.

will probably ended up taking more than a month to decided on what I will buy from the looks of it but i've learned a lot of interesting things

its a bit late here but I will definitively come back to learn more ;) hopefully with more specific questions

have a good night

@Prix if you go with Nikon, you can get a 35mm f/1.8 for super cheap (cheap for lenses that is) that would be fitting for much of the work you'll want to do.

@prix adorama.com/NK3518R.html