Hub of Reason

Borror0

4:00 AM

@Josiah "as long as you comment I don't hate you."?

Josiah

If you downvote, comment.

Borror0

Does upvoting a negative comment count?

Josiah

wait, what?

we only have upboats

you can't negate an upvote

Borror0

Say someone post an answer that has nothing do to with the question asked. Then, you comment "This has nothing with the question asked." If I upvote your comment, does it substitute for saying the exact same thing as you?

Yasir Arsanukaev

@Borror0 I think this is superfluous.

Borror0

4:06 AM

@Josiah I have hacked into StackExchange and can now downvote comments. Fear me. Rawr.

@YasirArsanukaev I agree. For as long as the reason is explained once in a comment, others don't need to re-explain it. I'm just making sure Josiah agrees.

Josiah

Upvoting is agreement.

Flag as offensive or spam = downvote.

Six downvotes on a comment = 100 points lost

the worst downvote of all.

Now, hear me out. Flags are free, right?

Six theists could eliminate my rep in less than a day.

Borror0

I'm sure actions can be taken against that

And the abuse be reversed

Josiah

I don't know what they are.

Yasir Arsanukaev

Having 100 points added after associating your accounts in SE make another chance for theists to eliminate your rep etc.

I think there are other unconveniences.

s/u/i/

Josiah

Inconveniences

lol

Not trying to be a dick, btw.

Yasir Arsanukaev

4:11 AM

I know :-)

Josiah

I should learn another language.

Yasir Arsanukaev

@Josiah: I suggest you Haskell ;-)

Josiah

Suck it dude. Hell no.

Yasir Arsanukaev

heheh

Josiah

My exposure to Haskell is people talking shit.

Yasir Arsanukaev

4:16 AM

((\x.x x) (\x.x x))

Oh gawsh, -4°C outsides, awesome.

Josiah

reminds me of lisp

I have never tried lisp

Yasir Arsanukaev

@Josiah Well, lisp/scheme look pretty close to lambda calculus notation.

lisp/Scheme are easy.

SICP is a great thing to start with.

Josiah

I'm sure they are. I'm not used to, and fuck me if I know calculus.

I taught myself a lot of trig, and I'm happy about that, but I haven't found anything compelling to use calc for

Yasir Arsanukaev

:]

Josiah

Yeah, after sleeping through class.

I find a job that trig is useful for.

I've been drinking and I want to talk about it, but I'll spare you, unless you particularly enjoy trigonometry.

Yasir Arsanukaev

4:25 AM

Hah my teachers destroyed any interest in trig in me.

Josiah

lol

I run a Coordinate Measuring Machine. I inspect aircraft parts by poking them with a ruby probe.

So knowing how a 3d vector works is useful.

Yasir Arsanukaev

I liked Paul Lockhart's A Mathematician's Lament as to maths.

@Josiah It must be interesting :>

Josiah

Although, for complex shapes, I'd like to learn calc.

Yasir Arsanukaev

I played with trig while doing some gfx (OpenGL).

Josiah

It was when I taught myself trig.

That's half of how I understood it, lol

I had some familiarity with game programming.

I will read the lament when I'm sober.

Yasir Arsanukaev

4:29 AM

hehe

Josiah

I usually associate haskell and lisp with academic research.

Yasir Arsanukaev

@Josiah Their popularity has started growing rapidly recently.

Josiah

hasn't it mostly been in reimplementations?

Yasir Arsanukaev

Well, lisp and haskell are different worlds.

And yeah, lisp (scheme) has lots of implementations (over 80).

Josiah

Yeah, squeak and what have you.

I actually enjoy the scheme environments to some extent.

It just feels 'right'

but it's not my real desktop, and that tends to annoy me.

Yasir Arsanukaev

4:35 AM

.)

Josiah

you have but one eye...

also, Lady Gaga is a retard. Such musical talent, all but wasted.

Yasir Arsanukaev

Don't even know who's that gawgaw

Josiah

@ami, you're making me change my language.

That's about how it would be pronounced. She's pretty much the next madonna.

Yasir Arsanukaev

pop?

ah

Josiah

I don't like pop, but she has a few really good songs, sad to admit.

Yeah.

She's also really hot.

Yasir Arsanukaev

4:40 AM

/me likes Manowar, Iron Maiden, Black Sabbath :-p

Josiah

Oh god. You guys are so far behind us.

;)

I hate 80's metal.

So so so so much.

Shit, that's almost 70's metal.

Yasir Arsanukaev

This one ? jabb.im/177

Josiah

Yep.

Yasir Arsanukaev

Pink Floyd, Deep Purple, King Crimson !

Josiah

My god, what a great nose job.

Yasir Arsanukaev

4:41 AM

A bit of Cradle of Filth :]

Josiah

Pink Floyd I like, add Led Zeppelin and we're okay.

I'm alright with a lot of death metal, but I prefer opera metal if I have to listen to metal.

►

despite being crap american pop, she's bloody good.

A friend once said they hated her for pretending she wasn't a good musician.

Yasir Arsanukaev

Opera metal, kind of Haggard ?

Or maybe Therion.

Haggard (band)

Haggard is a German symphonic metal musical group founded in 1991. The group combines classical music and early music with doom metal. Background Haggard was founded in 1991 and originally played death metal. They changed their musical style after their first demo tape, Introduction in 1992, becoming a band with symphonic melodies and classical instruments but folk themes. The album And Thou Shalt Trust... the Seer marked their breakthrough in 1997. After their second album Awaking the Centuries (the life of the prophet Nostradamus), they toured through Mexico twice. In 2004, they r...

Josiah

Listening to therion, because it's searchable.

Theatre of Tragedy, Nightwish

Yeah, Therion sounds right.

Yasir Arsanukaev

ah, ToT good. Nightwish seems too corny for me.

I'm sure you'll like Haggard then.

Josiah

I can see that.

It's not something I would have looked for myself, any of it, but I have a good friend that likes * metal.

Yasir Arsanukaev

4:46 AM

:]

Josiah

The only problem is vamping makes me cough like fuck

Yasir Arsanukaev

Vamping is.. let me guess, crying like wolves or vampires ?

Josiah

The male voices in * metal.

Yasir Arsanukaev

aloud

ah

Josiah

ARTRRRRRRHRHRHRAHAHAHA

and they're saying hi

you know what I mean

Yasir Arsanukaev

4:48 AM

:-D

Josiah

That low growliness makes my throat cry in pain.

Yasir Arsanukaev

Looks like they're used to it.

Mudak

Hello everyone!

Yasir Arsanukaev

Heyas Mudak.

@Mudak Where do you come from?

Mudak

Hi, Yasir.

I'm from Pennsylvania. Suburban Philadelphia.

You?

Yasir Arsanukaev

4:51 AM

Russia. What's origin of your nick?

Mudak

With a name like Arsanukaev, I take it you're from somewhere in the Former Soviet Union?

You know the origin of my nick. :)

Josiah

Welcome Mudak!

Yasir Arsanukaev

@Mudak Yep, Far East.

Josiah

I'm from Kansas.

Mudak

Hi, Josiah....

Yasir Arsanukaev

4:52 AM

@Mudak I wouldn't ask if I knew you know some Russian.

(of your nick)

Mudak

LOL. When I was in college, I spent a semester in St. Petersburg

Yasir Arsanukaev

I inclined to think this is nick, not a real name.

@Josiah Kansas. Is it warm there?

Mudak

Of course it's a nick.

So it just becomes a question of whether we should let the other people here in chat in on the little joke of my nickname here...

Yasir Arsanukaev

Hehe just a bit unusual.

Mudak

I've been using "Mudak" as my online handle for about a decade now, give or take a year or two...

Josiah

4:55 AM

@Yasir, It is not warm at all.

Yasir Arsanukaev

I wonder if someone gave you while you were at st. Petersburg or you've chosen it yourself.

Josiah

The days stay above zero C.

Mudak

I chose it myself.

Yasir Arsanukaev

Hope none had a reason to call you so :-)

Mudak

If they did, it wasn't to my face...

Yasir Arsanukaev

4:56 AM

heheh alright.

Mudak

You've read some of my responses to questions here on this site. You can decide whether it truly fits. :)

Yasir Arsanukaev

@Josiah, is it your real name?

@Mudak Heh indeed, need to recheck once more.

Josiah

It is. I'm Josiah Luke Johnson, my brother is Caleb Michael Johnson.

If that explains my religious background at all.

Mudak

I think it does, Josiah.

Yasir Arsanukaev

@Josiah :) Does it sound like Joshua ?

Josiah

4:59 AM

Jo-sy-uh I suppose.

Yasir Arsanukaev

:]

Josiah

Although, I've had it translated as yeshua.

Vitaly

I'm reading about Wichita West High School now.

Josiah

Wait, how?

Yasir Arsanukaev

Luke is your father's name?

Vitaly

5:00 AM

*is too curious.

Mudak

I was about to say, that might be as close to "Jesus" as you're going to find in the English language.

Josiah

Facebook @vitaly?

Creepy men, you russkies.

Luke is just biblical.

Vitaly

@Josiah, no, "<search request>" in Google.

Yasir Arsanukaev

@Mudak sounds close.

Josiah

Like Josiah. And Caleb. And Michael.

Vitaly

5:01 AM

The quotes have done the job.

Josiah

I have no clue how you found me searching the internet, but nice job.

Vitaly

Thank you. XD

Josiah

What was the search term?

Vitaly

Your name in quotes.

Yasir Arsanukaev

No privacy on internets..

Josiah

5:03 AM

lmfao

that's hilarious

I expected it to be information I put on the internet

facebook.com/profile.php?id=693622025

Mudak

I just added you as a friend, Josiah.

Vitaly

In Kansas, information put you.

Josiah

My myspace comes up first, which I haven't touched in apparently over a year and maybe a half.

Mudak

Vitaly, I picture you saying that with your "Yakov Smirnoff" voice...

Josiah

I've never been too squeamish about who I am, that's why I just use my name.

Mudak: I usually make the Yakov jokes.

Mudak

5:06 AM

Nor am I. The link from my profile page has my real name in it.

Josiah

Internet drive you!

Mudak

I will never forget my first time in supermarket, and I saw this box. It said "New Freedom" and I said to myself I said, "What a country! Freedom in a box!"

Josiah

lmao

Mudak

I don't buy it anymore. I buy Stayfree.

Josiah

@Mudak, a friend where?

Mudak

5:11 AM

@Josiah, on facebook. I just sent you a friend request

Josiah

Weird. Facebook isn't showing it.

Mudak

If you need me to, I'll send you a private message letting you know who I am...

Josiah

Fuck facebook, btw

Vitaly

@Josiah You might get someone like The Preacher calling you on the phone.

Josiah

They pride themselves on not going down. They just tiered it so you can always access facebook.com, but you just might not get any data.

@Vitaly, as long as it's one of my non serious numbers I'm okay.

I have a google voice and a voxox number that link to my real number.

Vitaly

5:12 AM

Non-serious numbers. lol

Josiah

Seriously.

Mudak

Yeah, FetLife is better, but....

Josiah

1 316 251 0660

That's my gv number.

It can get texts and record voicemail.

Mudak

anyway folks, i've got to get going...

it's been good meeting some people whose responses i've enjoyed reading here at this site for a couple of weeks now...

gnite

Josiah

I had to read your message.

Vitaly

5:15 AM

Good night @Mudak

Josiah

Go to your profile

And click Respond to Request.

@Mudak, goodnight sir.

Vitaly

@YasirArsanukaev habrahabr?

Oh, he's gone already. What a shame.

Josiah

FAIL

FAILLLL

Now go start the fucking pogrom.

Vitaly

Yay, found it

vimeo.com/13644580

Josiah

FUCKING POGROM

GET STARTED

@Vitaly, let me know.

also, @vitaly, I hope you didn't take me seriously.

Vitaly

5:51 AM

What? I'm eating tangerines.

In the USSR, they decorated New Year trees with tangerines, because Christmas balls, as you call them, weren't available.

Josiah

That's kind of awesome.

Vitaly

And they are on sale in large quantities this time of the year.

Josiah

Where were the tangerines from?

Vitaly

No idea, they were imported from bordering countries or probably warm republics like the Georgian SR or something.

Josiah

I'm always amazed at how large Russia is.

Vitaly

6:05 AM

Wiki says they're from the Republic of Abkhazia.

So yeah, the Georgian SR.

And I found an old postcard on the Web: img-2007-12.photosight.ru/09/2451822.jpg

Titled “Where do tangerines come from?”

Borror0

►

Rednecks...

Vitaly

That reminds me: Drifting russky style

►

And

►

Josiah

Azkaban?

FUCKING SWEET

Borror0

lol

Josiah

cant u see? he is playing with a horse, and horse likes it.

Borror0

6:25 AM

►

Wow...

Nomæd

6:44 AM

@Vitaly Vitaly, seriously? Back in Lithuania where I was born, I remember that in the end of 80s we surely did have the "Christmas balls", as "New Year's Decorations".

Vitaly

@Nomæd that was well in the time of the USSR (the 30s—50s)

Nomæd

Oh well, then, as usually, I missed the point :D

Vitaly

That tradition was carried on in our family by my grandparents and my parents

Other Russians have long forgotten that tangerines could be used like that

Mostly they used sweets to decorate the trees

Nomæd

I just remember always having the fragile glass balls, lights, and all kind of shiny stuff. Don't think we used any sweet, but on the other hand, we were never really traditional in any aspects (both cultural or religious).

And I remember it well because I always used to break them ;)

Vitaly

Maybe that was also a difference between Lithuania and Central Russia

Because pretty much everyone used sweets here

(in the 80s and the early 90s)

Nomæd

6:54 AM

Perhaps. Our family emigrated when I was 8, so I wasn't even old enough to know about what's going on around me, not to mention other parts of the USSR

Vitaly

Why even use glass balls. They're so useless.

Tangerines and sweets, on the other hand, you could pick from the tree and eat them.

Borror0

@Vitaly Using sweets to decorate your Christmas tree was popular a lot in Québec. Drying fruits also. And popcorn.

Vitaly

Popcorn?

:D

Borror0

Vitaly

That's inventive.

Borror0

7:07 AM

It used really popular in the 70s and perhaps even before. I don't know for certain, though, since I was born in the 80s.

Nomæd

Colorful glass balls are shiny, that's why :D

And don't cause dental disease ;)
Cuts on legs and hands are much easier to treat usually, and cheaper.

Vitaly

9:07 AM

Here, we present the first evidence of sex differences in use of play objects in a wild primate, in chimpanzees (Pan troglodytes). We find that juveniles tend to carry sticks in a manner suggestive of rudimentary doll play and, as in children and captive monkeys, this behavior is more common in females than in males.

cell.com/current-biology/abstract/S0960-9822(10)01449-1

Vitaly

9:21 AM

So, our closest relatives hunt with spears and play with dolls. And in captivity, they drink from mugs. I say, they should be part of our society!

Yasir Arsanukaev

@Vitaly A mate of mine refuses to be a closest relative of chimpanzees.

Vitaly

9:40 AM

It's okay, chimps refuse to be his relatives, too. Having a relative with no fur, unable to nurse a baby chimp, and with those ugly flat superciliary arches? No way.

Borror0

10:51 AM

6

A: Believing in Karma if you are an atheist?

Yes. It is possible. Many Buddhists are atheists who believe in karma but not in any god. While Buddhism is a religion, it has no god. Therefore, all Buddhists are atheists that believe in karma. Believing in karma is believing in the supernatural, but not all supernatural beliefs are of gods.

What do you guys think of Konrad's position (in the comments)?

Vitaly

/. p;\

oops.

Cleaning the keyboard

Borror0

lol

At first I thought it was a weird smiley and tried to decipher it.

Vitaly

I have a question

Do Buddhists self-identify as atheists?

And a second question

>Buddhism *is a religion*
>Atheist, godless, *irreligious*. That's three *synonyms*
Hm?

Borror0

Oops. Irreligious is so often interchangeable with atheist that I missed that.

Deleted, fixed and reposted.

You could argue that impious fits to make a third term though

@Vitaly Buddhists probably don't self-identify as atheists for the same reason that Christians rarely call themselves theists: they got a better, easily recognizable label.

Think about it, how often do you hear a Christian say "I'm a theist"?

Vitaly

11:13 AM

Deva (Buddhism)

A deva (देव Sanskrit and Pāli) in Buddhism is one of many different types of non-human beings who share the characteristics of being more powerful, longer-lived, and, in general, living more contentedly than the average human being. Synonyms in other languages include Khmer tep (ទេព), or preah (ព្រះ), Myanmar language nat, Tibetan lha, Mongolian tenger (тэнгэр), Chinese tiān (天）, Korean cheon, Japanese ten, Vietnamese thiên. The concept of devas was adopted in Japan partly because of the similarity to the Shinto's concept of kami. Other words used in Buddhist texts to refer to simil...

Why can't we call them deities?

Borror0

Atheists have better labels too but few would actually get it if you say you were, say, a metaphysical naturalist or an empiricism or an objectivist or an logical positivist or...

@Vitaly For one, Buddhism says that questions on the origin of the world are worthless.

Vitaly

And how are Santa Claus and Tooth Fairy different from Thor, Perun, and Heracles?

Borror0

No worshipping

Vitaly

And since the term “atheist” originated in the Western tradition where supernatural would invariably be linked to deities, why cannot we, in the global world, extend the term to anything supernatural?

We don't worship Perun, Heracles or Thor either

And the Kwaio people have a concept of a supernatural creator (and therefore, a god), but don't worship him anyway; they instead worship their ancestors' spirits, because those spirits possess strategic social knowledge and are interested in the peoples' lives

Borror0

@Vitaly Heracles is not a god. As for Thor ands Perun, probably were worshiped.

Vitaly

11:23 AM

Oops.

@Borror0 let's consider the early Yahwism (which later gave rise to Judaism) then.

Even now you can verify in the Ancient Hebrew interlinear translations of Genesis that Yahweh haven't created the world.

He divided the waters that existed well before he decided to do anything.

Just like any other “creator” in the Sumerian mythologies

Borror0

I do have to agree with you that the definition of a god is hard, if not impossible, to achieve. That's why ignosticism believe that "every other theological position (including agnosticism) assumes too much about the concept of God." Honestly, they kind of have a point.

Vitaly

So in early Yahwish (Judaism) the question of the origin of the world was worthless, too.

It's only when the texts got modified and translated that people started to interpret them as if Yahweh created the world.

Borror0

@Vitaly With that said, you can't "extend the term to anything supernatural" because it would include magic and gods have to be supernatural beings. That much is consistent. Gods are supernatural and sentient.

Vitaly

Are devas supernatural, sentient beings?

The Wikipedia article creates that impression.

Oh, and Santa Claus is a supernatural and sentient being.

And the creator in the Kwaio mythology is a supernatural sentient being who isn't worshipped.

Borror0

How about his? Gods are:
1. Supernatural beings
2. Sentient
3. The embodiment or source of an (or multiple) aspect(s) of the universe (a force, a thing, an emotion, etc.), or is the creator of existence

Vitaly

11:33 AM

Doesn't Santa Claus embody that aspect of the Universe that good kids receive gifts once a year on a particular night?

Borror0

Interesting interpretation, but it's from the point of someone who doesn't believe in Santa Claus. A kid who believes in Santa Claus does not believe that.

Someone who believes in Mars does think he's the embodiment of war

Vitaly

So what? Christians rarely call themselves theists. :PPP

Borror0

Frankly, the term god is just power play

A god is more powerful than a spirit

So someone who worships spirits worships something of a lesser importance

Vitaly

Great. Yahweh's spirit was hovering above the waters.

Borror0

Apparently, there once was a lot of cosmical one upping. "Oh, your god is the sun? Well my god created the sun. Take that, bitches."

Vitaly

11:39 AM

And no, someone who worships spirits doesn't think they worship something of a lesser importance, quite the opposite

The spirits are very important for the reason that they possess strategic social knowledge: who stole that pipe, who killed someone, who lied, etc

Just like the Abrahamic god

And the Kwaio creator is not important at all, because he's not interested in the people's lives

Why even bother with him?

Borror0

@Vitaly You've misunderstood what I mean. If a culture has no creator, or if the creator was a spirit, then if a new religion comes by where there is an all-powerful god ABOVE those spirits that religion could claim cosmical superiority.

Vitaly

I see.

Borror0

That is why there are many categories of siritual beings, or so I have been told

Vitaly

So I propose a new religion: the Creator created Yahweh, the Judeo-Christian god. Oh, and the Creator rewards people who think critically.

Borror0

That reminds me

Vitaly

11:44 AM

I claim cosmical superiority for that Creator and wait for converts.

Borror0

Do you know Justnowism?

Vitaly

C'mon. Where are you, converts?

Borror0

►

Vitaly

I need $1,000,000.

lol @ Justnowism

Borror0

Okay, of all the possible thumbnail it could pock, the choice is pretty awesome. XD

Vitaly

11:47 AM

I could even get some statistics for my religion...

After all, people who think critically and are well-educated usually have more well-paid jobs

See? The Creator rewards them! All hail the Creator!

Borror0

rAmen

Vitaly

12:14 PM

►

The Severn Bore is a fairly impressive tidal bore on a river in the UK

spoulson

12:55 PM

Hello

Vitaly

Hello @spoulson

Borror0

Hey

Vitaly

1:12 PM

I get the red icon on Atheism.SE whenever someone refers to me by typing @Vitaly

Is it possible to summon someone who hasn't visited the chatroom in this way (referring to them by @<name>)?

Borror0

Try it

Curse you! shake fist

Vitaly

:D

Ustice

1:46 PM

@Vitaly I think that they have to come here once to create the account, but I could be wrong.

Yasir Arsanukaev

2:01 PM

wtf Chinese say us Merry Xmass, too.

mfg

man im so sick of huge (and little) text in answers to questions

0

A: Is there an all-encompassing philosophy that could unify all religions/non-religions?

NO, really.... because of the definition itself! "Is there an all-encompassing philosophy that could unify all religions/non-religions?" definition Philosophy is the study of general and fundamental problems concerning matters such as existence, knowledge, values, reason, mind, and language. ...

Ustice

@mfg what do you mean?

In general, both can be good. Short for simple answers, and long for nuanced ones.

Borror0

2:20 PM

@Ustice There's a difference between short and concise, and another between long and thorough.

If you take several paragraphs to express little, you've just waste people's time

Ustice

So, the issue isn't with the length of the answer, but just the signal:noise ratio.

mfg

i just mean the headings make my attention span go into panic attacks

Vitaly

via Wikipedia: The results have suggested that people who are high in the need for cognition score slightly higher in verbal intelligence tests but no higher in abstract reasoning tests. Huh?

Ustice

2:37 PM

The results have suggested that people who are high in the need for cognition score slightly higher in verbal intelligence tests but no higher in abstract reasoning tests. Huh?

mfg

looking at the abstract from [one] it seems to imply that non-verbal/abstract thinkers are likely to be dogmatists

no nvm i mis-read

how is it that both of the first sources still cost $12, i hate academic journals

theyre from 25 years ago

Ustice

Fixed it.

Now it reads, "The results have suggested that people who are high in the need for cognition scale score slightly higher in verbal intelligence tests but no higher in abstract reasoning tests. There have not been any found gender differences in the need for cognition."

I wish it would just allow real html in here. (the simple stuff like em, a, etc)

Borror0

it does

<b>hello</b>

mfg

"@This that, though, is not..." (from an comment directed at thisistheid on meta)

Borror0

Or not

mfg

2:46 PM

<b\>why hello<b>

Ustice

See? Irritating, no?

That syntax is so much more clear than why hello .

Vitaly

:P

mfg

<tag:yeah-the-syntax-seems-hit-or-miss-just-like-my-typing-skills>

Borror0

The markup does work though, so if you do learn it you can link to stuff et all.

Ustice

Especially since you can't put it inside quotes, parentheses, or other punctuation marks.

nope, that doesn't work either.

Borror0

2:49 PM

Huh?

Ustice

I was testing to see if the tag syntax works here, like in Q/A's.

Borror0

I just got the Good Answer badge (25 rep) on a five line answer about Christmas but my several paragraph long refutation of the Theological Argument for the existence of God has only +2 rep...

Vitaly

Congratulations, I guess. @Borror0

Nomæd

@Borror0, because other than me, just one other person took the time to read your entire post I guess

Borror0

@Nomæd I get that. It doesn't make the situation any less frustrating (or worrying, what's the incentive to write thorough answers when shorter, flawed answers are the ones at the top of the page and yours is at the bottom).

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