assplode

Or what's his name? Evan?

Don't even say his name

What should the voting order be? Evan, @HopelessN00b and then @Wesley?

(because @Wesley always runs and loses...)

I was thinking of bringing back @Iain and @Chopper3

And then adding in maybe TomTom

for values of some == most

@Iain So... You're feeling an urge to improve it through aggressive moderation?

@freiheit That's why I stepped down, closing everything wouldn't have gone down well with the pink-and-fluffyness that is SE

@freiheit I quite like taking third place. At everything.

@MichaelHampton not sure I have the time or temperament to be honest

oh and @MichaelHampton thanks for your efforts, with you being less active quality will likely go down.

@NathanC Not just normal typos, that happens all the time. But typos where it says something odd/derogatory about me.

I suppose I'd run, but I always feel inadequate because I'm usually clueless about what the latest weird esoteric little rule changes there have been that are concealed deep in a meta somewhere. And usually not a meta Q, but a Meta A that is continually updated... for the last four years. Sometimes.

It seems like StackExchange's governance is just total chaos.

Not the people, but the processes.

@Wesley it's very DevOPs

In essence I'd almost view a diamond as just a 20K++ upgrade where I could one-punch shit questions, hopefully with some pre-made comments and links to canonical answers.

We need someone who's active 0800-14:00 UTC. I'd like to bar anyone else from running, but I doubt I'd get my wish.

But then that flies in the face of what SE was supposed to be which is largely community driven.

I nuke spammers and close horrible questions. What governance?

@MichaelHampton Well there you go. I can do that.

@ChrisS Yeah, NA time zones are well spoken for.

Let's clone @MarkHenderson

I'd vote foe SvW if he'd run

@Wesley That's Mark's afternoon and evening hours...

@ChrisS Let's clone Tom O?

and have someone else not spend time here

Bah! :D

@Wesley I think I'm supposed to adhere to the "If you don't have anything nice to say then don't say anything at all - in public" about other Moderators.... So, seems like a nice person. =]

@BigHomie - man I'm so close on the Crystal Report. I've got it by month now thanks to your link and another I found....but now I've got to figure out how to summarize records that have the same PO#...grr stupid Crystal

@DennisKaarsemaker for mod?

Pauska for mod?

Faker?

@SvW for Mod

Falcon is up late hours NA

@Iain Sure. Sounds good. I'll star that.

Make everyone above 10k a mod...we'll sort it out through groupthink. :)

@TheCleaner Okay not that would kick as. :P

Maybe make it 20k

Did we lose another mod?

@kce No... It's a long story

Hampton's leaving to pursue his dream of being a stunt double for Jason Statham

@ChrisS perhaps it needs to be told then

I thought Hampton == Statham?

@ChrisS Does it involve 55 gallons of lube?

@ChrisS I'd be interested to hear it, if you can tell it.

@Iain I'm not sure how much I'm supposed to say, but we have 8 moderators, and if you're on the site enough you'll notice not all of them are very active. Also, if you raise a flag in a certain time of the day it will go unhandled for hours, until a certain set of mods jump on in the morning, and one of that set tends to be first and so gets the brunt of the flag queue.

@ChrisS So I've always assumed that there are complications involved with removing diamonds from people.

@ChrisS It is noticeable that some mods from all intakes are less active than you would hope. Some almost never get out of chat and see the front page.

@ChrisS yeah the time zone skew is hard.

@Wesley To my knowledge no mod has every been kicked out, they have to quit. And if they aren't around it's kind of hard to quit.......

Because, and this is not saying anything bad about the people themselves, but it seems like MrDenny and Splattne don't do much.

@ChrisS there was one on SO who sent an email directly to someone who became not a mod because of it

@Iain Well at least one of the mods trys to ignore the front page because he'd go on a mod-hammer rampage. =}

@ChrisS I think we could use more mod-hammer rampages.

@ChrisS that's why I don't have a hammer any more

@Iain Oh yeah, I guess I remember a few incidences on other sites...

But sometimes I think a question should be hammered and the community thinks otherwise. So I try to stay neutral until it's flagged.

We could do with more moderators who are seen to be active amongst the community

Like that drive encryption question earlier. I thought it was fine.

Well I'm out - 08:00-14:00 UTC is the middle of the night for me.

Nearly all of the moderators I have voted for are no longer really active

@ChrisS single user on their own workstation == SU for me

@Iain Yeah, that's fine. But it's an interesting topic to enterprise folk as well... But that's not how it got closed either Scratch that, 4/5 closed and self-deleted.

Can anyone help me with a Linux problem?

Hahahah.

I'm not kidding

@ewwhite Have you tried rebooting?

I have a developer bugging me about locate not working.

Ed,
    Is there something that can be done about locate not working?  Every time we need to use it we/I have to update the database

@ChrisS I only saw the initial revision and voted accordingly but yeah if he'd been acting as a sysadmin deploying them to lots of workstations it may have been received better

(as in updatedb)

@ewwhite There should have been created a cron job for updatedb

@ewwhite still pissing around with that ?

@MichaelHampton there is

and it appears to run

# rpm -ql mlocate
/etc/cron.daily/mlocate

@ewwhite Is the developer trying to search for files created that day?

#!/bin/sh
nodevs=$(< /proc/filesystems awk '$1 == "nodev" { print $2 }')
renice +19 -p $$ >/dev/null 2>&1
ionice -c2 -n7 -p $$ >/dev/null 2>&1
/usr/bin/updatedb -f "$nodevs"

@ewwhite run the cron job more frequently ?

@freiheit I asked him...

I’m not certain what the issue is. The mlocate script updates the locate database via a daily cron job:
#!/bin/sh
nodevs=$(< /proc/filesystems awk '$1 == "nodev" { print $2 }')
renice +19 -p $$ >/dev/null 2>&1
ionice -c2 -n7 -p $$ >/dev/null 2>&1
/usr/bin/updatedb -f "$nodevs”
This runs around 3:15am each morning…
# grep mlocate /var/log/cron
Oct 12 03:09:34 Progressive_Management run-parts(/etc/cron.daily)[1561]: starting mlocate.cron
Oct 12 03:09:36 Progressive_Management run-parts(/etc/cron.daily)[30879]: finished mlocate.cron

I tried to downvote the developer, but it didn't work.

Holy crap @BigHomie I got it...! Yeah...Crystal Report done...talk about a PITA though when you have a table with multiple records for each PO's line item and all you want is to get a summary of each PO and the total $ for the PO instead. It involved some fancy grouping and then hiding various detail sections and moving fields around in places you really shouldn't in Crystal...but screw it...it works!

Oh, I see... I just logged in as this dev...

4547  09-04-2014 13:29:36  locate MIHPAY |less
 4549  09-04-2014 13:34:25  locate MIHPAY |less
 4551  09-04-2014 13:36:24  locate MIHPAY |less
 4614  09-05-2014 11:53:37  locate SHARPPAY.CSV
 4677  09-08-2014 10:55:15  locate CORPCALL
 4980  09-12-2014 15:46:06  locate QDDBTINT
 4981  09-12-2014 15:46:18  locate QDDBTDJ
 4982  09-12-2014 15:46:20  locate QDDBTADJ
 5150  09-17-2014 13:00:27  locate NBSRECON.ZIP
 5461  09-18-2014 11:56:29  locate CODPOKHH
 5462  09-18-2014 11:56:56  locate CODPOKHH |less

@ewwhite Is he trying to search for files he doesn't have read/execute permissions on?

@ewwhite Is his CAPSLOCK stuck?

remington.com/products/firearms/tactical/shotguns/…

BRB - eatting salmon

@freiheit this software is all caps.

So my engineers aren't happy that I recommended to management they use Toggl Desktop to track their time/activity. :)

@ewwhite --ignore-case might be useful for them...

locate is case-insensitive, right?

@ewwhite Only if you ask it to be

@TheCleaner I had toggle for a recently client project... it was okay, but I went back to my regular time tracker.

@freiheit well, I see the mlocate cron run each day... so I do wonder what the issue is

@ewwhite Do you get different results running the problem locates as the user vs as root?

@ewwhite files created on the day ?

@Wesley Are they moderators overnight? I've seen both maybe a handful of times since I've been on the site (5 1/2 years now)

@Iain this runs at 3am-ish... so yes, if there are new files created after that, they shouldn't be there.

but the client says this used to work fine on EL5

but not EL6

@TheCleaner MrD is in California, and Splattne is in Italy. I think both just don't spend much time here.

or is the answer to just tell the dude to use find?

@ewwhite which was? We're still in trial phases...we're looking for something like you would use...a consultant style that says "I worked x hours on x project for y vendor/customer"

spin up an el5 system and suck-it-and-see?

@ewwhite Is updatedb detecting your zfs partition as a "nodev"?

@ewwhite why does he not know where they are ?

@TheCleaner I use Inertrak by Inertron software. inertron.com

I don't think moderators have to be active participants on the site (asking/answering on main)...but they should be active "moderators" on the site (cleanup, meta, flags, etc.).

@freiheit these are normal mounted filesystems

@TheCleaner why not - that's pretty much what gets them the job

@Iain thats a deeper question. He should know where these files are.

@TheCleaner that activity may go down but shouldn't become non existent

@Iain you mean being an active participant? I guess I mean it in a "forums" sort of way...I would be fine with someone like @Ward being a moderator here...even though he isn't crazy active on the main site answering questions.

@TheCleaner yeah Ward would be good

@TheCleaner But what gets people voted to mod is visible activity == rep. Remember, most people who vote aren't from SF they are from everywhere else on SE so they see rep and ... we have a winner

@JennyD would be good

@Wesley The world does not need another @MarkHenderson

Never a truer word ... ;)

If I get elected mod, I'll change my avatar to Insanity Wolf and ban everyone who asks three stupid questions in a row!

Maybe I'll be the first SF mod removed by force.

I wish Katherine would run.

But really I'll probably just get angry and leave like everyone else seems to. :P

@ewwhite Lure Ethabelle back.

@Wesley the system pretty much does that automagically now

@Wesley naw, she got creeped out

Moderation will never work until there is consensus between SF's community and SE/SO about SF's scope and mission.

(Not to be overly negative)

Do you want to preemptively ban SO users, then?

But the folks that really make site work, feel like it should be one way and SE/SO feels like it should be another. Until that conflict is resolved, things are just going to keep going the way they are unfortunately.

@MichaelHampton @MichaelHampton Yes. Yes I do.

(Keep in mind that I was an SO user before I came here...)

It would be cool to make an auto-expenditure web app that takes your available daily down votes and close votes and just sprays them across all the questions in the queue appropriately. Logic shouldn't be too hard. Just need a few core users to get the ball rolling with a few down votes and close votes and then let the app take over with a pool of willing users' votes

@kce Really. I've received virtually no pushback from SE in regard to moderating the site. Changing the way the software works, yes...

@MichaelHampton Yeah. I understand that changing the SE software would be impossible.

@kce Not really... there's a lot more push to get rid of anonymous users now, network-wide, for instance. I may live to see it happen.

But look at the facts: We have established that the site's quality is going down, that we cannot retain our audience and that there is a huge disagreement between SE/SO and SF about who our audience is.

@kce Why do you keep saying SE/SO?

@MichaelHampton until they have earned rep here yes

@MichaelHampton Because as far as I can tell the StackExchange community is essentially StackOverflow.

So back to my draconian suggestion. To pull the site out of this nose dive we need to make some changes. Lets look at what kind of questions, again and again, end up in the review queue.

@kce The people who run this place are quite apart from SO users, for the most part, I can assure you.

@MichaelHampton It does not feel that way, but I'll take your word for it.

@kce They certainly don't come to SF and ask crap questions. :)

The crap questions in the review queue are overwhelming a) SO users asking tech support question here, b) anonymous users, c) low rep (under 100) users that still haven't "got it"

@MichaelHampton I admit they are in the minority but I recall seeing plenty of 1000+ rep SO users asking about very basic "non-professional capacity" things.

Maybe that has changed.

@kce I think you are still confusing SO users with the SE staff

@MichaelHampton I am conflating the two to some degree. But the feel I get, is that SE staff care about SO and that's about it.

@kce I wrote a scraper and <30% of the SF questions come from people who have a primary account on SF.

@kce It's their primary breadwinner

Followed by SU. Then gaming I believe

SF doesn't even get a medal

@kce There's a reason for that. As bad as SF is, SO gets 50 times as much crap.

@Iain - Any idea on what the rep level of those SF users were?

Like I said, there are plenty of folks who are SF users that are under 100 rep that ask terrible questions.

@kce no, and I'm being generous some proportion of them will be people who would associate with SO/SU more than SF but they have't found them yet

Interesting

Maybe my napkin data is bad but SF keeps having the same conversation over and over again about the quality of the site. Keep doing the same thing and we'll keep getting the same results.

those numbers hold up over pretty much any timescale you choose too - even weekends which suggests that almost no real sysadmins use the site, except to answer questions

@Iain Which numbers?

>60% of questions from SO 27% from SF and the rest from$elsewhere on SE

In the review queue?

no /questions

the front page isn't really any different from the review queueueu

A new user who tries to ask a question here first has to go through this page. While it tries to divert people who shouldn't be here, it obviously doesn't do a good enough job of it. Can this be improved? I can edit it...

@MichaelHampton if it requires someone reading then it is a waste of electrons

@MichaelHampton Not if they don't read it. I think we need to ban new users from asking questions. If they can answer 10 questions and get one up vote each then they can ask a question.

Most people I know around here just land on SF/SO from Google. They never sign in or contribute..

I'm being kind of facetious with this proposal but we have the Eternal September, why not have the Oppressive October?

What's gonna happen? The site gets worse?

@TheCleaner You forgot

meta.serverfault.com/users

ie the most "active" on meta.SF

And now more than 100,000 total votes

@kce my idea was you can ask one question for free, your second requires that you contribute back by providing an answer that is well received because I believe any real sysadmin should be able to do that easily

@Ward Want to be a moderator?

@Ward you've got my vote

@Iain I like that better than my blanket 100 rep or no question idea.

@MichaelHampton Why, can you make me one?

@Ward I have it on good authority that there will be a moderator election soon.

I only skimmed the earlier comments... I think it was Iain who pointed out that it's the non-SF'ers who vote who'd determine the outcome, and for that audience Rep is the key factor, not other participation.

I don't know... I didn't feel like rep was that big a factor in my getting elected. But I could be wrong.

@Ward Try anyways! Include your voting and meta participation stats/links in your pitch.

If there's an election, I'd probably nominate myself, but I don't think I could be bothered to put a lot of effort

I think we should give a bot the diamond. It can auto-close anything with devops in it.

OTOH, being a mod would put a cramp on my close and re-open reviewing...

A small price to pay, I assure you.

@Ward It would be like every close or re-open vote was a dozen votes!

@Ward As a moderator, you'll get all new stats to play with!

Does anyone here use Mac Yosemite

@ewwhite I do at home

I didn't even realize it was available for download.

How is it?

It looks nice

I hate the new spotlight

The end

Hmmmm

There are now 7 flags and I'm busy with an outage. Who wants to be a moderator?

crickets

How much do you get paid to be moderator?

Do they pay weekly or monthly?

I don't get paid anything to be a moderator. Same as I don't get paid anything to answer your questions! :)

@ewwhite $75/flag

And they fly you and your family to hawaii at your 3-year anniversary and shower you with gifts and free booze

And if you're ever in NY they put you up in a luxury apartment so you can moderate in your spare time

Starting Fresh pot of coffee                               [  OK  ]
Starting Wake up somebody at the NOC

And sometimes they send you a T-Shirt

I have four SF T-Shirts and one webmasters.se t-shirt. I use them when I am doing painting or dirtywork.

So far they've sent me two T-shirts, three (!) hats and a dozen or more stickers.

@MichaelHampton Wow I've only got one hat and it didn't fit (because I have a gigantic noggin) and I never do anything with stickers

I think last time I stuck them to the baby and then my wife had to peel them off

Yeah, I've got no idea what to do with all the stickers

@MarkHenderson What's your hat size?

I'm 7 1/2 and that usually puts me in XXL territory. Sucks.

Although my stepdad is like 7 15/16ths which is nuts

Lol. 4 different t shirts. Wierdly no mod swag yet

@JourneymanGeek Customs probably seized it.

Naw, they seem to have a backlog

Haven't gotten around to it yet

@ewwhite nice table yo

coworker: uses luksAddKey

loses key

how

@Wesley Hats come in sizes?

I've no idea

But my head is big

Like down syndrome big

Custom hat size big?

i know a guy like that

oh you guys are talking about hats

@mossy I'm yet to find a hat that is comfortable so probably

Are you sure you don't have big hair?

@mossy When my temples are throbbing due to pressure... yes I'm sure it's not my hair

ah

I really want a dog. imgur.com/mVAfGOu

Fuckin imgur. Huge time sink.

@JourneymanGeek so is "handphone" a Singaporian term for mobile phone?

I just had an email from a chinese/singaporian and he used "handphone"

@MarkHenderson do you understand the "gooby pls" meme? It really freaks me out. I dont understand