The Comms Room

2:01 PM

@jscott They have Microsoft Service Manager, we use it

@LucasKauffman Looked into it. There were a couple shortcoming that ruled it out. I'd have to look into my notebook at the office to remember though.

MDMarra

@jscott no idea

but landesk isnt really for ticketing

we use footprints here for that and change management

Cold T

does any here use iDRAC? looks pretty expensive for what it is

Dan

@ColdT I use HP's iLO extensively but it really depends on if you need it

We do a lot of stuff remotely so couldn't really be without it, but if you're sat next to your server room then it's probably not a major requirement

Cold T

ended up installing 12 of them for a client, just think its a waste of money... got to be cheaper solutions

Chris S

2:10 PM

I'm only on the other side of the building from the servers (not a long walk) and I use iLO extensively... There's no KVM or anything plugged into most of the servers.

Dan

@ColdT I've never heard of any - bear in mind it's truly out of band

@ChrisS We don't even include KVM's in our suggested kit lists unless people specifically want one

Cold T

@Dan fair point it is indeed out of band

Chris S

@Dan Sounds reasonable if you've got iLO Adv

Cold T

hp iLO Adv is even more pricey then dell iDrac

Chris S

I love that I can login from home and see what the console is doing when Windows bluescreens or whatever. No running to work at 3am when something blows up.

@ColdT Meh, $300 per server at retail prices.

Cold T

2:12 PM

@ChrisS what about a water leak, had one of those over the summer but lucky enough i was actually working the weekend!

@ChrisS it adds up quickly when you are talking 20+ servers

would have blown up nicely

Chris S

@ColdT Well 1. There shouldn't be water above your servers 2. At least you'll know it's not a software issue when iLO isn't responding

Cold T

although they'd blame IT either way lol

it was the AC pump that blew up and started leaking

Chris S

@ColdT You wouldn't be paying retail at 20+ servers.

Cold T

no i understand that, we get heavy discounts from both hp n dell

Chris S

Also some people have noticed that it may be possible to use the same iLO key on multiple machines.

Dan

2:15 PM

@ChrisS cough it is cough

Cold T

@ChrisS you got that one right but unfortunately can't suggest that to clients, would get my a$$ sued for something no doubt

Chris S

@ColdT You could suggest they try iLO (or DRAC) on one server and see if they like it...

MikeyB

@LucasKauffman 7 years here.

Cold T

question for everyone, how the hell do u hand your notice in without pissing of anyone :s

MDMarra

@ColdT why do you assume anyone will be pissed?

Lucas Kauffman

2:18 PM

It seems most of us here like older women, huh

Chris S

@ColdT I've found there's really nothing you can do (obviously if you're a jerk about it, they'll be pissed anyway). But some bosses just don't like it when they don't get their way, and there's nothing you can do about it.

@LucasKauffman Bunch of freaks

Lucas Kauffman

@ChrisS you're the odd one here!

Cold T

because they like having it ONLY their way especially my manager, hence why i want to get out of here

Chris S

@LucasKauffman I know, but I feel better calling you all freaks. =P

MDMarra

Just dont do it publicly

Schedule time to talk in private

Thank them for the opportunities that they've given you

Tell them you've enjoyed your time there (lie if you must)

Cold T

2:20 PM

yeh naturally, going to speak to manager at half 4

MDMarra

And tell them that you've gotten an offer that you cant refuse because of [advancement|pay|benefits|whatever]

Lucas Kauffman

@ColdT tell them you will part on a journey to a galaxy far far away

Dan

@MDMarra Yep, that's the one. I've never had a boss not congratulate me etc

MDMarra

Yeah. I just left my old job 2 months ago

everyone was gracious

Just give enough notice to hand your projects off, etc

Cold T

its not so bad here, they got a good client base, but scope of work so limited sometimes and i'm kind of wasting my time here, the pay is rubbish even when i started but then i thought the way they went on about 'projects' in the interview it would deliver experience and well that didnt happen

MDMarra

2:22 PM

thank them for giving you an opportunity to grow|succeed|be awesome and then peace out of that bitch

Happy SysAdmin Day!

same to you, sir

Thanks :)

@ColdT Just say that, but in a non-dickhead way

Dan

Just don't burn bridges, the world is smaller than you think!

MDMarra

2:23 PM

Something like "This was a great opportunity, and I appreciate everything, blah blah blah, but in this new position, I'll be able to do more relevant project work etc etc. And the pay bump I'll receive is just the icing on the cake"

Cold T

@MDMarra i did say exactly just that, and even then manager took it wrongly and took it as a threat

MDMarra

If you make it about the opportunity and not so much about the pay, then most bosses will understand

If they don't then they're a shitty manager

Dan

@ColdT Fuck em then, just hand in your notice and serve the rest of your time

You may even get lucky and get some gardening leave

MDMarra

Gardening leave?

Lucas Kauffman

@MDMarra tired of you so they send you home on leave instead of staying on the job for the rest of your period

Cold T

2:25 PM

@MDMarra that's what i basically said before. I go to them in the least dickhead way possible that i joined not because of their shitty salary but because of the experience that they said during interview they would offer

Dan

@MDMarra You guys probably have a different term - where the company doesn't want you there, so they send you home on full pay for your notice period

MDMarra

oh

Yeah, not sure what that's called here

Cold T

@Dan if i get gardening leave, that would be awesome but as you know, UK weather is crap!

MDMarra

I just know when I left, I got paid out on 5 weeks of vacation time in my final check

I was like "new fucking TV...here I come!"

Lucas Kauffman

@MDMarra must have been a big ass TV

Dan

2:27 PM

@MDMarra Not bad - I got a couple of hundred.

Cold T

lol biggg ass TV for sure!

Dan

Honestly, don't sweat it dude - I take it you already have a new job?>

Lucas Kauffman

any admins around, accidentally pushed looks good instead of delete: serverfault.com/questions/56719/…

Cold T

yes

had 2 offered, turned them down a few month back, should have taken it back then

jscott

@LucasKauffman Still have flag "Not an answer"

Lucas Kauffman

2:29 PM

tx

I'm out of flags for today

MDMarra

@Dan It was all time that I was owed and hadn't taken yet

Dan

@ColdT Then just do it - it sounds like they'll take issue regardless, no winnign that

MDMarra

@LucasKauffman I didn't spend all of it on a TV haha

jscott

@LucasKauffman Also, dude, I surrender.... You win /review :)

MDMarra

That would be a really fucking large tv

Dan

2:30 PM

@MDMarra Over here it gets pro ratad

MDMarra

what do you mean?

Dan

So, for example, if you left 6 months into the year you'd only get 6 months worth of holiday minus what you've taken

Lucas Kauffman

@MDMarra of course not, you also need a bluray, mediacenter, surround sound...

Dan

So it's actually possible to owe them!

Lucas Kauffman

@jscott we fought a fierce battle

MDMarra

2:31 PM

@Dan Yeah. Mine was acumulated from the previous year

So at the time I could have taken 5 full weeks. So I got paid on 5 full weeks

Dan

@MDMarra Gotchya - most companies over here only let you transfer 5 days

Lucas Kauffman

@jscott youtube.com/watch?v=4AoOa-Fz2kw

Dan

THat reminds me, I have like 17 days to use by November and I'm not allowed to take any til September. I'm thinking of taking off 3 weeks, or working short weeks for a month or so

MDMarra

@Dan I was owed 4 weeks and carried a 5th

I left, literally, the day after vacation rolled over

Cold T

if i had 5 weeks over holiday from previous year, damnnnn this place would collapse!

jscott

2:33 PM

@LucasKauffman ha!

MDMarra

So that's why I got the full maximum

Dan

@MDMarra Nice parting gift!

MDMarra

no kidding man

I bought a MBP for my fiancee, a new tv for the living room, and banked like 6k

just from my final check

the best part is that my first check at $newjob came on the same day as my last check from $oldjob

Dan

Awesome!

Lucas Kauffman

@MDMarra wow nice

MDMarra

2:35 PM

It basically paid for the rest of the wedding we'd been saving up for

Cold T

@MDMarra which state you working in, i think i need to move there, UK pays crap!

MDMarra

@ColdT PA

in Philly

Dan

Not that you guys care, but my missus got a promotion yesterday which is nice too

MDMarra

My old job is actually open still :p

@Dan always nice

Lucas Kauffman

@Dan give her a kiss from all of us!

Dan

2:35 PM

@ColdT How old are you if you don't mind me asking?

Cold T

@Dan give my congratz

26

Dan

@ColdT Ooh, same as me! You just gotta try and find the right job mate

we're all 26

Damn youngins....

haha

2:36 PM

@ChrisS Get out grandad

Cold T

i found a pretty decent job, was 2 hour drive though each way :(

Dan

@ColdT Ah yeah, I commute an hour which is pretty far in UK terms

Cold T

was offered the position but don't think i'd managed 4 hour traveling everyday

Dan

Do you mind saying what sort of cash you're hoping for?

Nah, that's a lot of time on the road

Lucas Kauffman

4 hours of traveling is a lot

Dan

2:38 PM

I did a project the other year which took me over 1.5 hrs each way. Did it for 2 months and it was pretty hard work

Cold T

they offered me 33k that place, 120 physical and 80 odd VMs to look after

Lucas Kauffman

33k pounds isn't bad

Dan

@ColdT THat's not bad at all, yeah

MDMarra

what's the exchange rate nowadays

and is that pre or post tax?

Lucas Kauffman

@ColdT didn't you consider moving?

Cold T

2:39 PM

they were moving up onto blade, so that would have been good

Iain

with 4 hours commuting though :(

MDMarra

(it's always weird trying to figure out how much you'd be worth overseas)

Cold T

pre tax

Adrian

From what I hear from Bay Area friends, a 2-3 hour commute isn't that atypical there. Of course, you wouldn't catch me dead in the Bayt Area.

Cold T

i did, went for the interview, waited 2 days, got a call and they offered it to me

Lucas Kauffman

2:39 PM

@MDMarra here nothing :(

Chris S

@MDMarra ~$1.6 = £1

MDMarra

I just googled it

It's about 52K USD

Dan

@MDMarra I don't think it's doable, easily. Cost of living etc

Cold T

4hrs too much of a drive though, if it was any closer, i would have jumped at it

MDMarra

yeah very true

Lucas Kauffman

2:41 PM

you do get some nice healthcare in the uk

Cold T

this other position offering me 29k in a college, they want me to revamp the whole setup

Dan

Truth be told, I think I'm earning the most I can without actually having to work hard

Chris S

@Dan That's where I am. =]

Lucas Kauffman

@ColdT college also often means a lot of free certs

Cold T

@Dan i wish i could do that!

Lucas Kauffman

2:42 PM

I think it gets boring after a while no?

Cold T

@LucasKauffman yep thats what i'm going there for lol

jscott

If you just want to get paid, check out IT consulting jobs in Iraq/Afghanistan.

Chris S

@LucasKauffman College commonly also means having to put up with Teachers/Faculty who think they're $DEITY's gift to the world and your stupid computers are the problem.

Dan

@ColdT To clarify, I do work hard on a job, but I'm not expected to answer phone / e-mail out of hours, I get away on time 90% of the time, chilled out office and no pressure when not on a job. Love it!

SmallClanger

@jscott Good money, lovely weather and the excitement of the ever-present risk of kidnap, torture and beheading. Dream job :)

jscott

2:43 PM

@SmallClanger :)

Lucas Kauffman

@Dan that's nice, the one thing they told me is that I have to be flexible in that way, sometimes working at night when the client asks to

Cold T

@Dan that is like me in this place, i relax, no stress, no headache but i need opportunities

Chopper3

helping another part of the company out this afternoon with their Cisco MDS's - not frustrating but in a way I wish they'd said they didn't know what they were doing, it would've save a lot of time, things like rescans are taking ages

Dan

@ColdT Yeah, you need to be stretched technically to keep interest really

I say all this as I'm setting up remote access so I can jump on over the weekend and set off some updates!

But that's my choice to make Monday morning nice and relaxed :D

Lucas Kauffman

@Dan does that mean you can come in at 11 instead of 9?

tombull89

2:47 PM

@ChrisS I was 23 on wednesday ^_^.

Anybody seen the new careers advert? It's a picture of a starfish on a beach in the sun with the caption "this is what your job should be like" - so laying around doing nothing?

Dan

@LucasKauffman Haha no, I'm not that bad :D

Chris S

@tombull89 They are advertising mostly to programmers.... so, yeah, sounds about right

3

Lucas Kauffman

well they always told me a good admin is a lazy admin ...

Dan

@tombull89 Cool :D

tombull89

@ChrisS Heh - this was on SF though...

Lucas Kauffman

2:50 PM

am I the youngest then? Anyone younger than 22? o.O

Chris S

@tombull89 It's the same network wide.

@LucasKauffman Jacob, when he's around, is like 17 or something.

Lucas Kauffman

ah true!

Cold T

@LucasKauffman nice blog u got there cloud101

Lucas Kauffman

@ColdT ty :)

Cold T

but i hate splunk licensing lol

voretaq7

2:52 PM

@LucasKauffman @ColdT CloudsRBad

Lucas Kauffman

it's not cheap

@voretaq7 haters gonna hate!

voretaq7

@LucasKauffman I only hate stupidity :)

"Herp derp fire the sysadmin and put it in the cloud!"

Dan

@tombull89 Nope, new one on me

Lucas Kauffman

@voretaq7 but who will run the cloud then @voretaq7 WHO??

SmallClanger

@voretaq7 "Happy Sysadmin day. We got you a card!.. well, it's more of a piece of paper... and instead of 'Happy Sysadmin Day' it says 'P45' in nice friendly letters in the corner."

voretaq7

2:57 PM

@LucasKauffman dont they run themselves?

Chris S

FARKING PEOPLE.....

voretaq7

@SmallClanger I'd rather have scotch :-)

Lucas Kauffman

@voretaq7 skynet?

voretaq7

@LucasKauffman google

tombull89

@Dan We got...quite a lot of calls from them...before the summer holidays. Seems a lot of schools did but I've never heard of them.

Chris S

2:57 PM

2

Dan

@tombull89 I'd run a mile just for the harassment!

coredump

Happy sysadmin day guys

tombull89

@Dan The best bit was when they phoned up and said "we understand you're the person to talk to regarding ICT procurement?" I was tempted to say "I don't know who sold you that info but it's wrong. Wrong Wrong Wong." I have no buying power whatsoever.

Lucas Kauffman

this question should be deleted, no programmer should ever know the truth: serverfault.com/questions/18538/…

Ethabelle

Hi strangers! :]

tombull89

3:01 PM

blimey.

Adrian

Howdy!

Lucas Kauffman

@voretaq7 kill pls: serverfault.com/questions/160841/…

tombull89

So, what's everybody's take on this Google Fiber thing? I guess it's going to be a while before it's comes to Europe/UK but it's still interesting.

Lucas Kauffman

@tombull89 if that thing comes to Belgium, all the major ISP's will die here

tombull89

@LucasKauffman We've got BT and Virgin fiber in the UK although I don't know how they would stack up against Google. I think it's mainly for the US markets as a lot of the US providers seem...sucky, to say the least.

Lucas Kauffman

3:05 PM

@tombull89 but can you get a gbit connection for 120 pounds?

I think for 100 euro we can get 100 mbit atm, not even full duplex

tombull89

@LucasKauffman Highly doubt it. But how many people are going to want 1GB? Most people would be failry happy with their 5/10/50/100Mbit.

Lucas Kauffman

true I'd be happy with 100 mbit, but gbit is so fancy

@tombull89 and to be fair, a lot of people think "faster is better" and will just get it without thinking if they need it

Chris S

So many websites aren't up to the task of keeping up with a bunch of home users having 1Gb connections, or 100Mb, or even 10Mb for that matter... so it doesn't matter all that much.

US ISPs generally suck because our population density is somewhat sparse. Thus wires all need to be much longer, and that very expensive.. Combine that with an overwhelming push by Wall Street to return high profits instead of long term stability/growth, and you end up with the crap we've got.

Iain

anyone familiar with find and the -ctime (-atime) parameters ?

Chris S

@Iain Mostly, what's up?

Iain

3:11 PM

-ctime +1 finds files that are changed >48 hours ago

-ctime +0 finds files >24 hours old but why does it work ?

Chris S

You're asking for things with a ctime that's more than 1, units are days, and the ctime from the files/dirs are rounded up to the nearest unit.

MikeyB

@ChrisS You think you have a sparse population down there??

Chris S

@MikeyB Yeah, the 51st state is even worse. =P

MikeyB

-ctime n
File's status was last changed n*24 hours ago. See the comments
for -atime to understand how rounding affects the interpretation
of file status change times.
-atime n
File was last accessed n*24 hours ago. When find figures out
how many 24-hour periods ago the file was last accessed, any
fractional part is ignored, so to match -atime +1, a file has to
have been accessed at least two days ago.

Adrian

Shopping? Or perhaps Polling.

-2

Q: Layer 2 Network Diagram Generator, OpenSource, Must run on GNU/Linux

I've scoured the interwebs, and have been unable to find a solid diagramming generator. Everything I have found either only maps layer 3, which really just looks like a giant circle, or is part of a giant monitoring system. The network has a ton of switches, and routers, but all devices have S...

Chris S

3:15 PM

You can also specify alternate units of time... It's a confusing system on account of the rounding everything up...

Iain

@MikeyB I've read it and that's why I'm confused n*0 == 0

MikeyB

@ChrisS Right, and 23//24 == 0 and thus matches.

Iain

It works like I want it to but just doesn't feel right

MikeyB

@Iain Do you feel DIRTEH?

Chris S

@Iain I completely agree... It's just a weird thing you accept as a historical artifact

Iain

3:16 PM

@MikeyB yeah ... sort of

MikeyB

@ChrisS At least it's documented.

voretaq7

wow, @Ethabelle with the deep magic Bacula questions!

Chris S

If you use a much smaller unit, like seconds, it seems much less awkward. For instance, if you specify -atime -1h30m you'll get everything within the last 89 minutes.

voretaq7

sigh my first Reversal badge, and it's not even on a site I spend a lot of time on

Iain

@ChrisS I'm happy with the syntax it's just the +0 that's interesting

Ethabelle

3:25 PM

@voretaq7 I love Bacula. It's good at computer essence sucking.

voretaq7

@Ethabelle yes but it's important to set the filesets correctly so it only sucks the VITAL essence

I mean really who needs 15 copies of the default Ubuntu kernel? :)

MikeyB

@voretaq7 That's what the dedupe on your storage backend and VTL is for. :p

voretaq7

@MikeyB doesn't solve the problem of the data going out over the wire

Storage is never my problem with backups -- it's always time

the time to compress and encrypt the entire 200MB Linux kernel on every machine is pretty hard to justify :-)

MikeyB

On that note, I now hate RHEV. Because managing storage on it sucks donkey balls. Can't:
* resize VM disks
* attach new VM disks live
* resize backend LUNs whatsoever
* storage vMotion while machine is up
* create/delete snapshots while machine is up
* copy LUN while machine is up

voretaq7

@MikeyB Linux community solution.

that's more accurate since VMWare is technically Linux...

MikeyB

3:35 PM

@voretaq7 Commercial solution in this case.

@voretaq7 Isn't that just the service console?

voretaq7

@MikeyB developed by one of the leading Linux community members

@MikeyB yeah as of ESX/i

Basil

morning

Adrian

@voretaq7 RHEV is awfully damn expensive to be 'community', isn't it?

voretaq7

@Adrian I'm speaking of the developers, not the product

Adrian

@voretaq7 Ah. In that respect, it is awfully damn expensive considering it's community-developed.

voretaq7

3:40 PM

Everything I've seen/heard of RHEV seems to follow the same pattern of "Hey here's a cake!" / "Dude that's just some cake batter with icing on top! I can't eat that shit!" / "IT'S A PRETTY. CAKE. EAT IT!!!!!!"

@Adrian oh I think the developers are (well-paid) RH staff - they just have the Linux community's view of it being OK to ship a half-baked product.

Adrian

@voretaq7 Hmm. Not sure I'd call it community then if it's developed in-house and they charge nearly VMWare prices for it.

voretaq7

which only bothers me because every company/project I have any level of respect for takes a "When it's done." approach to shipping products -- If it's not in working order it doesn't go out the door.

jscott

@LucasKauffman Done at 3.9K? Why not 4K?

voretaq7

@Adrian RH developers are a substantial chunk of the Linux community though - and I would wager that RH contributed some kvm code back that came out of their development of RHEV

it might not be a "community project" in the sense that every college student with bad skin and a penguin fetish is writing code for it, but the developers are indoctrinated with the mentality of their community

(which is also probably why there's no pretty GUI for managing FreeBSD Jails as much as I'd like one -- That community says "Use the command line! Be a man like Eleanor Roosevelt!")

Adrian

@voretaq7 Not saying you're wrong, but perhaps. $500/socket is a bit more than I'd want to be spending on something that requires something else to manage it.

voretaq7

3:46 PM

@Adrian I'd gladly pay it if the tool was up to snuff

but the underlying technology (kvm) isn't there, and the lipstick they put on the pig is inadequate.

Adrian

@voretaq7 It's certainly not. The $500/socket doesn't even include the RHEV.

voretaq7

@Adrian WHAAAAAAT? Fuck. That. Shit.

Adrian

Whoops. Sorry. I misread that.

The $500/socket is on top of the regular RHEL license.

Management server requires x86_64 server running Red Hat Enterprise Linux 6 64 bit (Not included. Must license separately)

Still, considering the list of missing features above, I'd rather go with my ESX servers.

84104

Once again my boss has made me a cert and I have no idea where the corresponding key is. I think we need a better process.

2

voretaq7

@Ethabelle Do you have a regular Pool = directive in your job? I don't see one in the configs you posted

SmallClanger

3:55 PM

Oh god, someone get me a drink. I just spent 20 minutes trying to figure out why a PS function wasn't returning any values. Turns out I wasn't invoking it...

voretaq7

@84104 Why? This is very secure.

@SmallClanger You're cut off sir!

SmallClanger

I'll lose my license at this rate...

84104

@voretaq7 Because then the new ldap servers will run without certs. (Or I could to to GSSAPI all the things, which might work, but kstart is more of a mess than SASL external TLS.)

MikeyB

@Adrian Well… you need a RHES license. Which could be a VM… in your ESX cloud…

voretaq7

@84104 no no... you want to use TLS on your LDAP servers

Some systems don't like kerberized LDAP (NetBSD used to HATES it!)

84104

3:58 PM

@voretaq7 Yeah, but for that to matter I'd have to some kind of freak running BSD. =P

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