The Comms Room

12:03 AM

@WesleyNonapeptide I hear that. I only have a single tree, a big honkin maple. Of course, there's also a good sized quince hedge as well. I hope to get enough fruit to make some jam some day.

Wesley 'Nonapeptide'

Is this close-worthy?

0

Q: Recommend a good Hosted Exchange Provider?

I am looking for a reliable Hosted Exchange provider, both in service quality as well as support/company reputation. The general requirements I am looking for are: Running Hosted Exchange 2010 Provide all of the usual services (Web access, Outlook client access, ActiveSync/Push to mobile devic...

hosted-exchange

It's subjective, and subjectivity is verboten on the ServerFaults.

Zoredache

I think it is worth closing. Recommending a service providers really isn't really very useful.

WesleyDavid

I do like those questions to get people's views on companies and services, but I think it's ill suited for ServerFault.

I'll save them for other forums and IRC channels.

And blog wars.

instanceofTom

12:19 AM

@WesleyDavid close worthy

WesleyDavid

Hey @instanceofTom I just saw your response to that question. Good punt.

sysadmin1138

Stack Overflow Blog: Q&A is Hard, Let’s Go Shopping!

Posted by Jeff Atwood on November 23rd, 2010

Over the last 2.5 years, we’ve identified a few problematic classes of questions that tend to get asked on our sites. Many of these are documented in our standard set of close reasons: exact duplicate, off-topic, subjective and argumentative, not a real question, and too localized.

However, as we launched the great Super User experiment, a new, previously unknown class of problematic questions emerged — the shopping recommendation.

That is, on Super User we began encountering questions like: …

instanceofTom

thanks, noticed the question when you pointed it out, figured itd be good to point them in the right direction before the question is closed

Zoredache

@KyleBrandt, you need to start being perfect, unlike me.

0

Q: rss feed for the serverfault blog double posts

The Server Fault blog RSS feed always comes up twice in Google reader (with different timestamps)...The stackoverflow blog rss doesn't do this...anyone else have this problem? From my screenshot, this began happening on the 9th of december...My first guess is that this is just google reader bein...

bug blog

packs

I always say, edits are for the weak.

Zoredache

12:32 AM

@packs, did you just edit that comment on purpose.

packs

@Zoredache I will take that secret to the grave!

WesleyDavid

His first sentence said something about eviscerating gerbils with bendy straws.

sysadmin1138

Time to go home.

WesleyDavid

As Tracy Ulman would say: "GO HOME! GO HOME!!"

packs

@WesleyDavid Eviscerating is not quite the word I would use.

@sysadmin1138 Enjoy.

WesleyDavid

12:39 AM

Trying to think of who to vote for in the elections.

I wonder who else will show up in the running in the next week.

packs

I thought you were going to find a way to vote for TomTom?

Zoredache

I was thinking about it, but I am not sure I want to. There is already good candidates.

Not being a mod means I can occasionally be mean to people in comments and not feel as bad about it as if I was a mod.

WesleyDavid

I don't have the time right now. Maybe next election cycle. I sincerely hope that mods don't stick around for more than a year.

I <3 TomTom

gravyface

1:44 AM

tap tap tap... this thing on?

Zoredache

Somewhat.

gravyface

how goes?

anybody finding it hard to get an upvote/answer lately?

Zoredache

My Sun storage array took a nap for an hour this morning for no apparent reason. Sun is looking at the logs.

@gravyface, what do you mean? Do you mean it is hard to get an answer you asked, or hard to get credit for an answer you provided?

gravyface

yikes. I'm about 3 firmware versions behind on one of my Dell MD3000i. Sigh.

@Zoredache: hard to get credit.

last month or so, just awful.

also, not getting much love on my Cisco questions for some reason but I usually muddle my way through it.

Zoredache

I haven't noticed any slowness. You do seem to have provided a lot of answers lately to low rep users. I find that it is pretty common that you don't get much from answering low rep questions unless you provide a really good answer.

gravyface

1:58 AM

@Zoredache: fair enough, but usually there's upvoting from higher rep users. Perhaps avoiding low rep questions altogether might be a better strategy.

Zoredache

I don't know that you want to completely avoid them. Depending on the question it is likely that you will slowly gain some rep over time as people find the question on Google or in a search.

I just wouldn't suggest you spend much time on a bad/vague question. If you have a quick answer, it won't hurt to add it, but if the question isn't really clear then ignoring it isn't a bad thing.

Anyway, I am heading home, I'll be back later.

gravyface

@Zoredache: ttyl

WesleyDavid

How about this. Freely give to all with no focus on recompense.

Less worry, more goodness.

From the pages of LMGTFY:

0

Q: Does Apple's Remote Desktop need OSX Server?

Does Apple's Remote Desktop need OSX Server? Or are there better management options out there? I'm looking for something to manage a small Mac lab of ~20 machines joined to Active Directory.

remote-desktop mac macosxserver apple

Ward

2:42 AM

@WesleyNonapeptide: your name hasn't propogated here yet. I'm glad you didn't change it altogether, it took me months to get used to it when pauska changed his. Yes, I kinda keep track of people on the same users page.

This must've come up before, but I haven't been paying attention to chat: what's the number that seems related to but is higher than reputation that shows here?

WesleyDavid

@Ward What did Pauska change his to? Mine is changed from Wesley 'Nonapeptide' to the more personable WesleyDavid

So it's still Wesley, if that helps.

The number that is higher than your SF rep is your aggregate rep for all stack excahnge sites

@Ward Check out your full account stats:

serverfault.com/users/6177/ward?tab=accounts

Add up all the numbers and you'll get to 5679

packs

@WesleyDavid Too many first names!

WesleyDavid

And I haven't even told you of my middle or last names.

Ward

2:59 AM

@WesleyNonapeptide: it's what Pauska changed it from, he was (I think, it's been a while now) Erik P Skaarland for a long time, and I got used to seeing that name.

Evan Anderson

6:35 AM

@WesleyDavid: I've gotten some solicitations for business engagements and a couple of jobs. In the end none of it has panned out for various reasons (not being a good fit, being across a US border, etc). I'll keep the shingle out there, but I don't expect any business from Server Fault. I have referred prospective local Customers to my Server Fault profile, though, and had some very good reactions. I'm treating Server Fault as more a part of my personal "brand" than anything else.

pauska

9:25 AM

@packs: :(

@Ward Yea, it was my full name, but I found it a bit too long, and it's nice to hide under some kind of alias

Murali Suriar

9:45 AM

@WesleyDavid I've been contacted once by someone who was looking for a networking guy. I hadn't said anywhere I was looking for a job; I suspect he went down the list of top users in the 'networking' tag until he found someone based in Dublin. :P

Sam

I've not had any job offers, but have had people wanting me to write blog posts for them.

pauska

10:00 AM

novarum.com/documents/WLANScaleTesting.pdf

2

this is one of the best tests i've ever read

Niall Donegan

11:04 AM

I'm currently gets job offers from Amazon around once a month.

Sam

11:35 AM

@pauska that's a really interesting read

pauska

12:05 PM

@Sam: Indeed. Heres a similar one for single AP testing: novarum.com/documents/…

Sam

sounds like they would be fun tests to do too

pauska

12:41 PM

I need a beer.. soon....

Niall Donegan

@pauska Currently auditing the OSPF setup on our network. Luckily there is decent documentation, but it's still "fun"

jscott

@pauska Nice... Added quite a bit more detail, eh?

pauska

@jscott: a little bit, yeah

Niall Donegan

Firewalls + OSPF can often mean lots of breakage, even from companies who sell proper routers! Not looking at Cisco in particular!

pauska

DMZ and two server LANs are still missing

and its still the logical layout...

I have 8 boxes with cisco gear sitting outside my office :P

transition from one ISP to another without provider independant space is.. torture

@NiallDonegan: I havent even considered OSPF

I dont trust the old firewall enough, doing static routing at HQ

I honestly feel like I'm building my own ISP here :P lucky I dont have anything to do with the MPLS network

Niall Donegan

12:49 PM

@pauska We're at a size where OSPF is essential. Space in three datacentres, connected to three transit providers and one IX, interconnections between data centres, and multiple routers and firewalls talking to each other.

Murali Suriar

What software are you using to do the diagrams, out of interest?

Niall Donegan

Looks like Visio

pauska

Yep, Visio

@NiallDonegan: Ok, thats a bit bigger ye

Niall Donegan

@pauska If you find youself having to add static routes more and more, consider OSPF. It also makes it very easy if you need to add extra links between offices which are transfering a lot of data.

Initial head scratching on setup is guaranteed though!

Murali Suriar

What make/model are the firewalls?

pauska

12:52 PM

@NiallDonegan: Yeah, I follow you on that one.. the thing is that this is a visio of the madness I'm going to have while transition from one ISP+IPVPN to another ISP+IPVPN

everything marked TDC is going to be removed after a few months

@MuraliSuriar: The new one (at the top) are dual Cisco ASA 5510 with Security Plus and active/passive failover

Murali Suriar

And the older ones?

(ASAs should handle OSPF fine, IIRC)

Niall Donegan

ASA's aren't too bad for OSPF (although OSPF3/IPv6 is another matter)

pauska

@MuraliSuriar: Netscreen NS25

(Juniper)

Murali Suriar

Hmmm. Never used Netscreens. Are they still running ScreenOS, or are they on JUNOS now?

If JUNOS, OSPF should also be pretty solid, although you'll probably want to do some interop testing with the Ciscos ahead of time.

Niall Donegan

Junos OSPF is rock solid. The newer Juni firewalls do use Junos, not sure if they backported to old SSGs.

pauska

12:56 PM

this is a very old firewall

IIRC it has OSPF and even BGP

Niall Donegan

The higher end fortinets also usually have no problems with OSPF, but the BGP implementation is absolutely dire.

Murali Suriar

I've not actually used OSPF on JUNOS, only IS-IS. But yes, I'd imagine it Just Works. (TM)

Niall Donegan

@MuraliSuriar Had an odd issue with it not accepting costs correctly with IPv6 on Junos 8.X, but that was fixed ages ago.

Murali Suriar

You were running OSPFv3 then?

Niall Donegan

Yup.

Murali Suriar

1:06 PM

Pretty much everyone I've heard of that's using v6 switches to IS-IS so that they only need one IGP running.

Niall Donegan

Still do.

Murali Suriar

Interesting.

You don't find the administrative overhead annoying?

Niall Donegan

We are planning to migrate the core to IS-IS, however it's a legacy from the days when our core network was Quagga running on Dell 1950s!

Murali Suriar

LOL

Awesome.

If you're looking for a good ISIS reference, amazon.co.uk/OSPF---Choosing-Large-Scale-Networks/dp/0321168798 is what I used to study up with before moving to the current job.

Niall Donegan

On wish list, and the boss has gotten a gentle nudge :)

Really do prefer the Junos config over the Cisco config

Murali Suriar

1:21 PM

Absolutely.

Atomic commits, diffs, ability to stage config and roll back...

Niall Donegan

commit confirmed 2 has save my ass so many times!

pauska

but cisco iz the best! so is Apple!

Murali Suriar

Heh.

Cisco aren't horrible. The thing you have to bear in mind is that Juniper are expensive.

Seriously so.

Dan

What an awesome commute in, morning boys!

pauska

Cisco aint exactly wall mart either

Murali Suriar

1:22 PM

You do get what you pay for, but often you don't need everything they give you and can make do with Cisco.

Niall Donegan

Juniper certainly has no answer for a Cisco Cat6K with SUP720BXL that gives the same bang per buck

Murali Suriar

True, but when you go below Cisco (particularly for routing), things tend to just not work as well.

There are a bunch of switching vendors who are starting to look interesting.

HP, Arista, Force10 etc

Yeah - the Cat6k really is a switch though, rather than a router.

Niall Donegan

The Juniper J series are brilliant, but suffer from being a software based router.

Murali Suriar

Juniper are just getting in to switching, and they've made a conscious decision to build up their switching expertise in house, rather than acquire someone.

Niall Donegan

The Cat6K is really just a Chassis. The SUP720BXL is the routing element.

Murali Suriar

1:24 PM

While this is admirable, and will probably serve them well in the long run, it does mean their switching products suck in the datacentre.

pauska

You're talking way out of my league here anyways :) I like my little 3750's with ip services stack

Niall Donegan

Haven't tried any of the Juni switches yet. I do like Extreme thoughl.

pauska

and, after all, my ISP is the one managing the MPLS (IP VPN) connectivity.. they're bringing in dual 7000 routers

Murali Suriar

@NiallDonegan true enough - still, they seem to position the 6k more as a datacenter switch.

Niall Donegan

Most of our management tools and inhouse scripts do tend to rely on Cisco features.

Murali Suriar

1:25 PM

Trying to terminate any kind of WAN on it (POS, ATM etc) costs a fortune.

You need an SSC, SIP, and port adapters.

And if you want to do encryption on top of that, you need a VPN SPA.

Niall Donegan

@MuraliSuriar We deal exclusively in ethernet over Fibre or Cat6.

No ATM or similar!

Makes life a lot simpler.

Murali Suriar

Indeed.

You're using metro ethernet for the WAN stuff as well then?

Niall Donegan

Yup. Protected rings presented to us as fibre or cat6

Murali Suriar

Mmm. I've always been a bit suspicious of metro-E, only because it doesn't give you any path diagnostic information.

You can have up/up links on both ends, but not have end-to-end connectivity due to a failure in the middle, and you have to rely on your carrier having a clue to get stuff fixed.

The nice thing about SONET/SDH is the amount of detail the alarms give you.

Niall Donegan

Our provider can do the whole end to end thing. So if there isn't a full path, we don't get a link at either end.

Murali Suriar

1:29 PM

ah, link loss forwarding.

Yeah, fair enough.

Niall Donegan

And they're very good if something breaks, in that we get the full details and not a fob off.

Murali Suriar

Bleh. Carriers seem to universally suck, in my experience.

Niall Donegan

The only unplanned outage we had from them was JCB related.

Murali Suriar

That may be because we have to deal with so many of them.

Niall Donegan

GBLX are decent enough, TINETs support is good, but their routes are crap. The less said about Cogent the better! We're getting Level3 in to replace Cogent as Cogent are having a few peering splats in the EU at the moment.

We tried Packet Exchange for a while as well, but we weren't too impressed with their support.

Murali Suriar

1:39 PM

Bleh. prometric take 5 days to upload results to Juniper?

Sam

2:06 PM

Does anyone know any good tools for calculating required disk IO based on volume of data and time? I could work it out but it would be nice if there was some tool that allowed for a sliding scale etc

Kyle Brandt

2:33 PM

@Sam: Can you expand on that thought a little?

Kyle Brandt

2:46 PM

@Sam: If you are saying what I think you are saying keep in mind these sort of calculations are problematic. We are going through this at the moment... The problem is that spikes are not accounted for

Even if you know the peak amount, you can't really say if X storage will give you the speed you need on whatever activity (random reads, sequential writes, whatever) until you test that workload

At least, that is my current thinking

That being said to actually answer your question... Disk is irrelevant , you just need to move a certain amount of data in a certain amount of time right? Just go type something like "10 Megabytes in 11 seconds" into wolframalpha.com

SpacemanSpiff

It's BLOODY cold outside

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